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Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: ringkichard on September 03, 2013, 05:54:53 AM

Title: DvN rules questions
Post by: ringkichard on September 03, 2013, 05:54:53 AM
My Mage is wearing Bearskin and no other armor and has 2 corrode markers. I cast Dragonscale Hauberk and return my Bearskin to my spellbook. Does this destroy the corrode markers?

(If this question makes no sense, see the new preview card on facebook)
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: jacksmack on September 03, 2013, 06:27:34 AM
I would think the corrosive would stay because you at no point have 0 armor.


And as i understand corrosive it also works like this:
Mage has 1 corrosive token and leatherboots equipped (no other armor).
He casts reflex boots and puts leatherbooks back in spellbook. Then takes 1 damage and removes corrosive token.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: ringkichard on September 03, 2013, 09:20:35 AM
In the example you give, per the spoiled rules, I don't think the Mage takes any damage. The rules say, " If an object with zero armor would gain a Corrode condition marker, each marker it would receive instead becomes one point of direct acid damage." Since in your example the Mage isn't receiving any new tokens, I don't think the damage conversion happens. I think the extra marker is just destroyed without causing damage.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Laddinfance on September 03, 2013, 12:12:56 PM
Ok for your example, you would play the Dragonscale Hauberk, your Bearskin would come off.  At that point you have zero armor.  Corrode constantly checks so you would lose the corrode markers.  You only take damage from corrode markers if you would gain them after your armor is already at zero.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: ringkichard on September 03, 2013, 12:49:08 PM
Beautiful. Thanks!
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Laddinfance on September 03, 2013, 12:51:01 PM
Always a pleasure to help when I can!  Hopefully everyone is excited about the previews.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: aquestrion on September 03, 2013, 06:01:23 PM
But if you put bearskin back on would your counters come back or would they stay gone?
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Kharhaz on September 03, 2013, 06:23:01 PM
But if you put bearskin back on would your counters come back or would they stay gone?

In the above example they would stay gone
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Laddinfance on September 03, 2013, 07:27:45 PM
They are gone.  When it goes away it loses the tokens.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Stormmaster on September 04, 2013, 08:57:08 AM
If that only affects creatures or conjurations how does armor or armor swapping come into play if it isn't applied to the armor itself?  Or am I not understanding this.  Armor isn't a conjuration
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Laddinfance on September 04, 2013, 09:06:08 AM
It goes off of the creature or conjurations current armor.  When you go to swap armors, you take off the first armor before putting on the second.  Corrode is always watching your armor, so if taking off the first armor would take your armor below the number of Corrode markers you have, then you would immediately lose the excess.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: ringkichard on September 04, 2013, 09:11:44 AM
My Mage with Bearskin has 2 corrode markers on him. This makes his effective Armor value 0. When I cast Dragonscale Hauberk, the Bearskin is removed and there is a brief moment where I would have effectively "negative two" armor. This causes the destruction of the corrode markers because corrode markers self destruct if they would bring your armor below zero. Then my Bearskin finishes attaching itself to me, and now I have two armor.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Stormmaster on September 04, 2013, 10:57:17 AM
OH I understand now.  So when they said armor, it didn't mean the physical armor itself (cloak, boots, etc) it meant the armor value they provide.  So it is the +X armor value not the actual armor.  OK makes sense now.
Title: Re: Acid Ball & armor switching
Post by: Shad0w on September 05, 2013, 07:26:22 AM
My Mage with Bearskin has 2 corrode markers on him. This makes his effective Armor value 0. When I cast Dragonscale Hauberk, the Bearskin is removed and there is a brief moment where I would have effectively "negative two" armor. This causes the destruction of the corrode markers because corrode markers self destruct if they would bring your armor below zero. Then my Bearskin finishes attaching itself to me, and now I have two armor.


Very well done Ring
Title: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: ringkichard on September 07, 2013, 08:09:13 AM
I have a Zombie Minion with the Lumbering trait. It is enchanted with a face up Enfeeble, giving it Slow. I cast Charge on it.

Does the Zombie lose both Slow and Lumbering?
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: Kharhaz on September 07, 2013, 08:27:07 AM
Lumbering = Slow without the action stripping effect.

That's the short version.

I have a Zombie Minion with the Lumbering trait. It is enchanted with a face up Enfeeble, giving it Slow. I cast Charge on it.

Does the Zombie lose both Slow and Lumbering?

No. When a creature with slow gains fast it cancels both traits out (as per slow description pg. 44 rulebook V2) Charge would cancel the slow out in your question and lumbering remains.
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: Laddinfance on September 07, 2013, 08:36:48 AM
Ok, the current wording for Lumbering (as in the one that went off to print) is that the creature is always hindered.  So, Lumbering limits their movement and fast cannot take that away.  The article was posted with a previous version of the rules. In the final cleanup before print the interaction with fast was removed.
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: ringkichard on September 07, 2013, 09:55:46 AM
Ok, the current wording for Lumbering (as in the one that went off to print) is that the creature is always hindered.
That's really elegant! Have I mentioned that I love this game?

Quote
So, Lumbering limits their movement and fast cannot take that away.  The article was posted with a previous version of the rules. In the final cleanup before print the interaction with fast was removed.

Under the effect of the incantation Evade, will a Zombie Minion be able to move twice and then attack?
The Codex entry for Elusive only discusses being hindered in the context of creatures.
Is it vulgar to twiddle your Minion?

Edit, haven't had coffee yet.
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: Laddinfance on September 07, 2013, 10:51:33 AM
You're totally fine.  That was something we discussed with this wording.  I rather enjoyed the fact that it did everything we wanted out of this trait while remaining simple.
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: Shad0w on September 07, 2013, 05:23:40 PM
Lumbering = Slow without the action stripping effect.

That's the short version.

I have a Zombie Minion with the Lumbering trait. It is enchanted with a face up Enfeeble, giving it Slow. I cast Charge on it.

Does the Zombie lose both Slow and Lumbering?

No. When a creature with slow gains fast it cancels both traits out (as per slow description pg. 44 rulebook V2) Charge would cancel the slow out in your question and lumbering remains.

Well done and Ladden covered lumbering for me
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: DarthDadaD20 on September 07, 2013, 06:57:31 PM
Throwing in the Hindered aspect was a Smart, smart move. (God was that smart, I didn't even realize the genius of it up till this point)

Its beautiful!  :'(
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: Laddinfance on September 07, 2013, 07:15:52 PM
Wish I could take credit for that inspired piece of elegant design, but alas it was not mine.  Alex Mont came up with that one.
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: DarthDadaD20 on September 07, 2013, 09:09:52 PM
Like I said- I thought nothing of it until now....and now I see its elegant brilliance. Good job Alex!
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: jacksmack on September 09, 2013, 08:58:19 AM
Im wondering if creatures with "plant" subtype counts towards living in relation to the following traits:

Bloodthirtsty on attacker is triggered by wounded plant creatyres in same zone?
Vampiric grants life leech when attacking plants?
Zombie transformation - Zombie plants possible?
Life drain (warlock spell) - plant creatures can be life drained?
Healing spells - plant creatures can be healed by minor heal and heal incantation etc.?
Hand of Bim shalla can target plants?
Pentagram recieves mana when a plant creature is attacked?

Im sure there is more i have overlooked - And perhaps the answer is Yes to all of the above. I just have a hard time imagining Zombie Plants and why Bloodthirsty would buff up a direwolf attacking a wounded plant :)
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: ringkichard on September 09, 2013, 09:17:29 AM
All creatures are living unless stated otherwise. It's possible that plants will have a special rule, but nothing has been said to indicate that, and no type has had an intrinsic rule before (except maybe Vampiric).

Maybe we'll get a plant spoiler today!
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on September 09, 2013, 10:43:05 AM
Im wondering if creatures with "plant" subtype counts towards living in relation to the following traits:

Bloodthirtsty on attacker is triggered by wounded plant creatyres in same zone?
Vampiric grants life leech when attacking plants?
Zombie transformation - Zombie plants possible?
Life drain (warlock spell) - plant creatures can be life drained?
Healing spells - plant creatures can be healed by minor heal and heal incantation etc.?
Hand of Bim shalla can target plants?
Pentagram recieves mana when a plant creature is attacked?

Im sure there is more i have overlooked - And perhaps the answer is Yes to all of the above. I just have a hard time imagining Zombie Plants and why Bloodthirsty would buff up a direwolf attacking a wounded plant :)

Plants are living unless otherwise stated on the card
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Moonglow on September 09, 2013, 04:38:58 PM

I just have a hard time imagining Zombie Plants and why Bloodthirsty would buff up a direwolf attacking a wounded plant :)

Most of the plants look like they're eating creatures... I don't find it hard imaginging that there's more than just sap running through their ... ummm stems? 
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DarthDadaD20 on September 09, 2013, 08:46:27 PM
Try and remember- this is a world of magic and monsters-nothing is forbidden-nothing is foreseen- Nothing is certain.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on September 10, 2013, 07:47:48 AM
Try and remember- this is a world of magic and monsters-nothing is forbidden-nothing is foreseen- Nothing is certain.

Shh don't disturb the apprentices during class.  :P
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Stormmaster on September 10, 2013, 12:07:55 PM
When you kill something and turn it into a zombie when it comes under your control does it retain any of the enchantments that your opponent put on it or does it lose enchantments when it dies?

So like if you fight a Grizzly and it is beefed up with Bear Strength, Rhino Hide etc etc, even though it isn't your Bear Strength can you still use it?  I presume if it has regrowth enchantment on the newly reanimated Grizzly Zombie can't use that, but all other enchants are fair game and stay on?
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: baronzaltor on September 10, 2013, 12:13:47 PM
The creature still dies, so all those checks apply such as removing damage, conditions and attached items.  Otherwise a creature would be coming back with damage equal to its health already on it too, which would instantly kill it again.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Laddinfance on September 10, 2013, 12:19:30 PM
Baron has taken care of you.  They have to be destroyed to be reanimated.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Hale_32bit on September 10, 2013, 12:57:58 PM
When you kill something and turn it into a zombie when it comes under your control does it retain any of the enchantments that your opponent put on it or does it lose enchantments when it dies?

So like if you fight a Grizzly and it is beefed up with Bear Strength, Rhino Hide etc etc, even though it isn't your Bear Strength can you still use it?  I presume if it has regrowth enchantment on the newly reanimated Grizzly Zombie can't use that, but all other enchants are fair game and stay on?
Bear strength, Rhino hide, Regrowth can target only living creature.
Title: Corrode vs resilent
Post by: Phoenix on September 10, 2013, 09:02:22 PM
On the news it is stated that "This object is incredibly resistant to damage. This object ignores all non-critical damage from Attacks. Direct damage, and attack effects, occurs normally."
Under the discussion of the corrode effects of the raptor it talks about  "...Corrode is a powerful weapon against zombies as they have no natural armor and very few ways to gain any."

If the resilient zombie is immune to non-critical direct damage, I do not know of any critical direct damage how is corrode going to be effective regardless of the state of the zombies armor?

note: I found the answer.  there is a period at the end of the sentence of non-critical damage from Attacks, not a comma.  Direct damage and attack effects are a new sentence.  Thank you for reading this
Title: Re: Corrode vs resilent
Post by: Laddinfance on September 10, 2013, 09:16:48 PM
You're totally fine. Direct damage applies normally to resilient creatures.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DarthDadaD20 on September 11, 2013, 08:49:53 AM
I am going to go ahead and say it: Playing with and against these zombies feels just like you think it would.

Its almost like you are playing through a zombie horror movie- they really do give you that feeling.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: ringkichard on September 11, 2013, 10:01:24 AM
Then I want a Mage Wand of Head Shot! (Or a Helm of Gothos of Head Shot, actually.)
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: sIKE on September 11, 2013, 04:18:16 PM
So what happens when my Vine Snapper devours a Necro's Eternal Servant? Like the Priest's Holy Avenger can he cast it again?
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DarthDadaD20 on September 11, 2013, 07:24:35 PM
Great question- Ill wait to see what is said.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: ringkichard on September 11, 2013, 08:06:55 PM
Well, first we need Snapper and Necro officially spoiled, so....
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Laddinfance on September 11, 2013, 09:03:42 PM
In the article that covers the Necromancer, I'll be sure that get covered sIKE.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Stormmaster on September 11, 2013, 09:17:53 PM
For the Druid since it says on her card she can place a vine marker "in a zone" does that mean ANY zone regardless of range or line of sight?  I'm assuming since it doesn't specify you can extend your reach and target any zone in the arena and since the vines are coming from underground presumably they could go past walls and don't have a range?  Am I reading that correctly?

I am a noob at this but I think if you click the little pic below it will make it bigger so you can read what I am asking about.

Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DarthDadaD20 on September 11, 2013, 10:11:11 PM
Well, first we need Snapper and Necro officially spoiled, so....

I am not going to say too much and have to deal with the wrath of Shad0w!
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Laddinfance on September 11, 2013, 10:44:49 PM
For the Druid since it says on her card she can place a vine marker "in a zone" does that mean ANY zone regardless of range or line of sight?  I'm assuming since it doesn't specify you can extend your reach and target any zone in the arena and since the vines are coming from underground presumably they could go past walls and don't have a range?  Am I reading that correctly?

I am a noob at this but I think if you click the little pic below it will make it bigger so you can read what I am asking about.

I can see the confusion. The Vine Markers for the Druid actually take up quite a bit of text.  Here is the rulebook entry for spreading vines, it should clear up any issues.

Quote
Spreading Vines
Life springs up in the footsteps of the Druid. Each Deployment Phase, the Druid may place a new Vine marker in her zone.  Or, she may instead place that marker in a zone, or adjacent to a zone, containing a Vine marker she controls. The Druid, and her spawnpoints and familiars, can use her Vine markers to extend the range of vine spells they cast.  See “Vine Markers” in the codex.

Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Moonglow on September 12, 2013, 01:25:20 AM
Nice, the vine marker seems a pretty cool way to extend influence and board control!

Regarding the Vine Snapper, I seem to have missed something, why would it prevent your 'special creature powers' coming back for reassigning?  I'm not sure why it would do that, but even the resurrecting zombies seems to be clear that it wipes all existing spells and conditions etc before the creature is resurrected.  Thank god really, can you imagine the tracking that would be required?!

Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Charmyna on September 12, 2013, 03:47:02 AM
Can you teleport rooted trees? They are still creatures (so no conjuration). Therefore, I guess u can unless the rule for rooted says something else.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Stormmaster on September 12, 2013, 07:30:51 AM
Can vines spread under walls?  I see that you still need LoS to cast a spell in the vine's zone so if the vine is behind a wall you can't cast a vine spell in that zone, even if you are adjacent to it, but can you put a vine in there or do you need LOS to spread the vine to the adjacent zone?
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on September 12, 2013, 07:43:54 AM
Can you teleport rooted trees? They are still creatures (so no conjuration). Therefore, I guess u can unless the rule for rooted says something else.

Have not seen the final wording on rooted but last I saw the could be teleported
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: jacksmack on September 12, 2013, 07:45:38 AM
Can vines spread under walls?  So if the mage is hiding behind a wall and you have a vine marker adjacent to their zone you can spread the vine behind the wall and then cast a spell inside their zone?

the vine can spread, but casting in a zone with a vine can be done from any range. LOS is still required.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on September 12, 2013, 07:47:06 AM
Can vines spread under walls?  So if the mage is hiding behind a wall and you have a vine marker adjacent to their zone you can spread the vine behind the wall and then cast a spell inside their zone?

the vine can spread, but casting in a zone with a vine can be done from any range. LOS is still required.

Are you referring to vine placement or summon from vine?

Can vines spread under walls?  So if the mage is hiding behind a wall and you have a vine marker adjacent to their zone you can spread the vine behind the wall and then cast a spell inside their zone?

During deployment phase you may place a vine maker in a zone.
This does not say it requires LoS. So yes, you ignore walls when placing vines. (Have not see the final rules but this is how it was play tested
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on September 12, 2013, 07:53:08 AM
Spreading Vines
Life springs up in the footsteps of the Druid. Each Deployment Phase, the Druid may place a new Vine marker in her zone.  Or, she may instead place that marker in a zone, or adjacent to a zone, containing a Vine marker she controls. The Druid, and her spawnpoints and familiars, can use her Vine markers to extend the range of vine spells they cast.  See “Vine Markers” in the codex.


Thanks laddin this will help
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DarthDadaD20 on September 12, 2013, 08:10:47 AM

During deployment phase you may place a vine maker in a zone.
This does not say it requires LoS. So yes, you ignore walls when placing vines. (Have not see the final rules but this is how it was play tested

Makes for some of the most interesting options and climatic phases I have ever played in any game....EVER!

You really have to keep an eye on that Druid- Equip a weedwacker if you can. 
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Stormmaster on September 12, 2013, 08:34:20 AM
Ya I had edited my question.

I see the vines can spread without Line of Sight.
But to cast from the vine you need Line of Sight to the vine.

Thanks.

Just trying to make sure I fully understand all the rules so as soon as I get the game I can jump right in and play right away!  Very much looking forward to it.  Preorders done.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Laddinfance on September 12, 2013, 09:02:03 AM
In my games with Bryan, I was normally the Druid. She excites me quite a bit too!
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: ringkichard on September 20, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
Dead creatures, enchantments, and control: Ziggurat of Undeath vs. Rise Again.

My opponent has initiative. My creature, enchanted with Rise Again which I control, is killed by an opponent's Zombie while the Zombie's controller also controls Ziggurat of Undeath.

Who gets to raise the creature?
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Laddinfance on September 20, 2013, 10:00:19 PM
On simultaneous action like that I believe initiative wins. Though I don't have all my rules in front of me right now.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: ringkichard on September 21, 2013, 12:07:19 PM
After some more research, it looks like control of the creature only matters for resolution order during the upkeep.

I currently can't think of any way this would happen during the upkeep, so the answer does look to be that Initiative Wins.

What made me ask was the thought that since the creature was dead, it wasn't clear who the controller was, so if that mattered things might get more involved. Turns out, no, not unless there are more ways to raise the dead that can trigger during the upkeep.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on September 22, 2013, 06:55:17 PM
I would rule that the player with initiative chooses what effect to resolve.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 04, 2013, 11:17:28 AM
First I apologize if this question has been previously addressed. I tried to find the answer before posting, but could not.

1) Does poison effect plants/vines like normal? Without the poison immunity listed on the creature card or Druid's card I'm assuming it does but wanted to double check. I would be hard pressed to find a reason why thematically they wouldn't be.

2) If plants/vines are harmed by poison, and the druid's vines are only 1hp with any damage killing them, if I were to bring out 'Idol of Pestilence' would that destroy every 1hp vine on the board?
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: sIKE on October 04, 2013, 11:39:23 AM
2) If plants/vines are harmed by poison, and the druid's vines are only 1hp with any damage killing them, if I were to bring out 'Idol of Pestilence' would that destroy every 1hp vine on the board?

Nice thought!
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: ringkichard on October 04, 2013, 12:19:19 PM
Idol of Pestilence specifies "living creature". Vine markers aren't creatures.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DeckBuilder on October 04, 2013, 12:29:37 PM
First I apologize if this question has been previously addressed. I tried to find the answer before posting, but could not.

1) Does poison effect plants/vines like normal? Without the poison immunity listed on the creature card or Druid's card I'm assuming it does but wanted to double check. I would be hard pressed to find a reason why thematically they wouldn't be.

2) If plants/vines are harmed by poison, and the druid's vines are only 1hp with any damage killing them, if I were to bring out 'Idol of Pestilence' would that destroy every 1hp vine on the board?

Nice ideas here, Joe.

1. Currently (unless I've missed a ruling in a plethora of dispersed sources). Poison effects like Idol of Pestilence, Poison Gas Cloud or Plagued will harm Plants only if they are Creatures, not Conjurations. This is obviously a big issue when leveraging the Necromancer's Immunity, is anti-intuitive and the inconsistency jars. I hope they will correct this in the new set's rules.

2. Where is this "1hp vines" rule sourced? (Hit Points?) My understanding is vine markers are just that, markers to indicate terrain in that zone, and markers don't have life (but may have a removal cost for specific effects). Seedling Pods are 5hp (you've got me doing it now!) and I doubt there will be anything more fragile. Seedling Pods are also conjurations therefore (unintuitively on current wording) they take no Pestilence damage anyway.

Do I get the impession you are focused very much on the side of the Necromancer?
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: sIKE on October 04, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
Vine Markers (Game Marker)
Vine markers are a Living conjuration with 1 life, no armor, and they cannot gain armor. Vine markers hinder enemy non-Flying creatures. Any mount of damage will destroy a Vine Marker, regardless of its total life. They can't be targeted by ranged attacks. Any number of Vine markers can occupy a zone. As the Druid, or any object she controls, casts a vine spell, you can destroy a target Vine marker she controls as an additional cost to cast that spell. If you do, you may target that Vine marker's zone, an object in that Vine marker's zone, or a border of that Vine marker's zone, ignoring range. If two or more Druids are playing, each should use a different side of the Vine marker to distinguish ownership.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DeckBuilder on October 04, 2013, 12:58:54 PM
Thanks for that, sIKE, I couldn't find it anywhere on this thread. Vine markers are far worse than I imagined, really fragile!

It seems like Pestilence, Gas Cloud, Plagued etc will only harm creatures (as per text).

So the above Poison effects harm Kralathor, Togorah, Vine Snapper, Raptor Vine etc

Poison cannot harm vine markers, Seedling Pods, Vine Tree, Samara Tree, Etherian Lifetree, Wall of Thorns, Tanglevine, Mana Flower

I guess this a necessary balance rule, like how former can be targeted by enchantments like Bear Strength and Rhino Hide. Maybe we can explain it as "the former are sentient plants"? It seems to me Poison can only harm plants with activation markers for some reason.

A necessary evil, I guess, as they made Vine MARKERS a conjuration (which also breaks another consistency in rules about markers).

I think they have a created a mess in consistency and intuitiveness here. Sad panda.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: ringkichard on October 04, 2013, 01:26:31 PM
Wait,

If vine markers are conjurations, does that mean Earthquake can damage them? Vine Markers can't be targeted by ranged attacks, but Earthquake doesn't seem to make ranged attacks (or even a zone attack). Huh.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DeckBuilder on October 04, 2013, 01:29:57 PM
Yeah, that is bad. Good spot!

I really hope they are reading and not too late to change this mess they have created for themselves (i.e. has not gone to print yet).

Shocked these issues haven't been picked up already.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 04, 2013, 01:40:58 PM
Sorry for breaking the game hahahaha. Just kidding. MAGE WARS FOR LIFE!!!!
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: sIKE on October 04, 2013, 01:55:12 PM
(which also breaks another consistency in rules about markers).

I think they have a created a mess in consistency and intuitiveness here. Sad panda.
Not sure of the direction here, if everything fit neatly in four different types of boxes I would feel that the game is much closer to Monopoly than what it is. To me the game designer for a game like this should have a great deal of flexibility.

My question to you is, if they didn't expand upon what a "marker" could be and wanted to implement the "Vine Feature" (as it can't be a marker!) how would you do it?
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: sIKE on October 04, 2013, 02:00:41 PM
Wait,

If vine markers are conjurations, does that mean Earthquake can damage them? Vine Markers can't be targeted by ranged attacks, but Earthquake doesn't seem to make ranged attacks (or even a zone attack). Huh.
Of course not, Earthquake is not a Ranged Attack. Vines are Corporeal conjuration and if they are in 1-2 Adjacent zones they would be destroyed if they were to take any damage as per the Earthquake and Vines text.

Nothing is broken here...
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DeckBuilder on October 04, 2013, 02:07:18 PM
My question to you is, if they didn't expand upon what a "marker" could be and wanted to implement the "Vine Feature" (as it can't be a marker!) how would you do it?

Gotta be quick (Friday night here in UK, rushing out) but I assumed...

Vine Markers are a marker on a zone. You may have multiples in 1 zone. Spell effects (like Purify / Clear Mind) may be able to remove any number of any type of markers (future proof) in 1 zone en mass by paying removal cost so stacking them is risky. They are placed in or adjacent to existing vine markers or Druid and don't need line of sight when spreading adjacent. Druid can cast a Vine spell in any zone with own vine marker by destroying that vine marker as part of its cost, irrespective of range or line of sight.

Balancing factor to consider: vine markers may or may not hinder non-flying enemies (it does not make sense vs. another Nature mage, my vines hinder your Kralathor?). I think this rule was also unnecessary with Zombies already Lumbering.

Effectively, vine markers are exactly what it says on the tin: vine MARKERS.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Kharhaz on October 04, 2013, 02:08:32 PM
Yeah, that is bad. Good spot!

I really hope they are reading and not too late to change this mess they have created for themselves (i.e. has not gone to print yet).

Shocked these issues haven't been picked up already.

Wait what?

There is no mess, earthquake will clear two zones worth of tokens, it's not an oversight as it was brought up multiple times in playtesting.... so maybe I am missing the issue here.

Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Kharhaz on October 04, 2013, 02:09:54 PM

Effectively, vine markers are exactly what they say they are: vine MARKERS.

If they were markers then you could not destroy them with melee attacks.... stackable conjuration markers they be
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DeckBuilder on October 04, 2013, 02:10:12 PM
Nothing is broken here...

But there is plenty of unnecessarily inelegant inconsistency and anti-intuitiveness here. This is the game's biggest selling point.

Equiping a Loxodon Warhammer to a Bird of Paradise breaks no rules either.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 04, 2013, 02:20:09 PM
Instead of making them Tokens with life (something new to the game), they could have chose to mimic the Swamp Orcs faction in Summoner Wars by giving the Druid special vine cards that were mage exclusive with zero spell points. I believe by doing this their description/classification would have played better. However, if this was done i'm sure the board would feel even more busy.

I was just kidding about breaking the game. I firmly believe that Mage Wars is the tightest living card game on the planet.

Truthfully I don't really care the outcome of whether they can be damaged via poison or not. I just want to know the answer whatever that may be so that I don't play incorrectly. Thematically I can just pretend they are roots instead of vines, and the topsoil is hindering the poison.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: sIKE on October 04, 2013, 02:24:41 PM
But there is plenty of unnecessarily inelegant inconsistency and anti-intuitiveness here. This is the game's biggest selling point.

Mages duking it out via custom built spellbooks, I would think would be a bigger selling point, not that a marker is a marker and can only (mark or mean) one thing else introduce inelegance or inconsistency and anti-intuitiveness. Rules are meant to broken....

Equiping a Loxodon Warhammer to a Bird of Paradise breaks no rules either.
This would break the rules, as you are allowed to only cast equipment spells upon your mage. Now if you are saying a Bird of Paradise is a type a mage and that mage has no equipment limitation (like saying only equipment from the Nature School are allowed in the (Hand Slot or Hand + Shield slot) then that would be  inelegance, and a bit of inconsistency and anti-intuitive.....
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: DeckBuilder on October 04, 2013, 02:26:47 PM
Joe, I think that's the problem. Swamp Orcs vs. The Fallen was too much of an inspiration, I fear. Vine Walls have 3 life. Ergo vine markers need to have life.

I think I'm going to go out now and get very drunk and sad that my favourite game has discarded its "it all makes sense" charm.

 
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 04, 2013, 02:32:59 PM
Naw, just give this mythical bird mage fingers that come out of it's wings, just like Stratos from He-Man. Boom, problem solved!
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on October 04, 2013, 02:46:08 PM
Thanks for that, sIKE, I couldn't find it anywhere on this thread. Vine markers are far worse than I imagined, really fragile!

It seems like Pestilence, Gas Cloud, Plagued etc will only harm creatures (as per text).

So the above Poison effects harm Kralathor, Togorah, Vine Snapper, Raptor Vine etc

Poison cannot harm vine markers, Seedling Pods, Vine Tree, Samara Tree, Etherian Lifetree, Wall of Thorns, Tanglevine, Mana Flower

I guess this a necessary balance rule, like how former can be targeted by enchantments like Bear Strength and Rhino Hide. Maybe we can explain it as "the former are sentient plants"? It seems to me Poison can only harm plants with activation markers for some reason.

A necessary evil, I guess, as they made Vine MARKERS a conjuration (which also breaks another consistency in rules about markers).

I think they have a created a mess in consistency and intuitiveness here. Sad panda.

You are correct it had to be done for balance reasons.
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: Shad0w on October 04, 2013, 02:48:03 PM
Wait,

If vine markers are conjurations, does that mean Earthquake can damage them? Vine Markers can't be targeted by ranged attacks, but Earthquake doesn't seem to make ranged attacks (or even a zone attack). Huh.

Earth quake at the correct time is nearly a blowout.it can set you back 1-6 turns
Title: Re: DvN ruels questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 04, 2013, 03:05:16 PM
Well, I got my answer, thanks to all who contributed to that resolution. Seriously, this is one of the best forums. A close knit well informed group who don't have elitist attitudes. Not to mention moderators and play testers who are quick to clear things up. Well done guys.
Title: Re: Slow + Lumbering + Fast
Post by: pixelgeek on October 04, 2013, 04:54:13 PM
I have a Zombie Minion with the Lumbering trait. It is enchanted with a face up Enfeeble, giving it Slow. I cast Charge on it.

Does the Zombie lose both Slow and Lumbering?

Can you start a new thread and give it a descriptive title so people will be able to find this question at a later date?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: ringkichard on October 04, 2013, 05:00:27 PM
Would you believe that's exactly what I did, and then... someone...  changed it to the current title?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on October 04, 2013, 05:39:53 PM
Would you believe that's exactly what I did, and then... someone...  changed it to the current title?

Just link it off the main thread.  :P
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 05, 2013, 08:10:21 PM
After a conversation with Wiz I started thinking about Darkfenne Bats and the potential there. So here's the question: I have Ziggurat of Undeath on the board, if I  zombify a Darkfeene Bat and it inflicts rot on a creature but does not kill it, if it dies from rot on the upkeep phase, does it turn into a zombie? I'm assuming Ziggurat's discription of "makes a melee attack which destroys a creature" would mean no, but want to be certain. 
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: baronzaltor on October 05, 2013, 08:59:29 PM
Correct, the death blow needs to comes from a zombie melee hit.  Other sources won't trigger ziggurat.
Rise Again would work off of a rot death though.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 05, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
Thanks Baron. If rot did work that way, might have been worth it to add a few for a horde build.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on October 07, 2013, 07:03:09 AM
"Vine Markers (Game Marker)
Vine markers are a Living conjuration with 1 life, no armor, and they cannot gain armor. Vine markers hinder enemy non-Flying creatures. Any mount of damage will destroy a Vine Marker, regardless of its total life. ................."

With Etherian life tree (all living creatures and living conjurations gain finite life +x) the vine markers get more than 1 HP.
I assume the bolded text means that the vinemarkers always get destroyed when they recieve damage even if they have 3 HP due to other effects and only recieve 1 or 2 damage.
My question is: What if a low lvl creature rolls 0 damage... does 0 fall under "any mount of damage" and thus the Vine Marker is still destroyed?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Kharhaz on October 07, 2013, 07:26:54 AM

My question is: What if a low lvl creature rolls 0 damage... does 0 fall under "any mount of damage" and thus the Vine Marker is still destroyed?

In the rule book a blank result is described as a missed attack (pg 25 v 2)  also on that same page,

"Then, add up the value of all normal hits showing and subtract the target's armor from this total. If the result is more than zero, the target suffers that much damage."

So you can not deal zero damage, and to answer your question no zero damage damage does not fall under any damage.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on October 07, 2013, 07:42:35 AM

My question is: What if a low lvl creature rolls 0 damage... does 0 fall under "any mount of damage" and thus the Vine Marker is still destroyed?

In the rule book a blank result is described as a missed attack (pg 25 v 2)  also on that same page,

"Then, add up the value of all normal hits showing and subtract the target's armor from this total. If the result is more than zero, the target suffers that much damage."

So you can not deal zero damage, and to answer your question no zero damage damage does not fall under any damage.

wp sir.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 07, 2013, 11:25:39 AM
Also vine markers are not considered creatures. Though stated as 'alive' they must be labeled creature to get any creature specific buffs.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on October 07, 2013, 01:10:31 PM
Good job Baron and Kharhaz
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on October 08, 2013, 02:24:20 AM
Also vine markers are not considered creatures. Though stated as 'alive' they must be labeled creature to get any creature specific buffs.

Etherian life tree buffs living conjurations as well.....
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Uremir on October 28, 2013, 08:32:44 PM
Since all of the plants have hydro immunity, does that mean we won't be able to use water spells to extinguish any burn debuffs on our plants?  The rules for immunity state that the object with immunity cannot be targeted or affected by any spell of that type.

Example: My Vine Tree was targeted by a Fireball and now has a single burn marker on it.  I consider casting Geyser to remove this pesky burn token, but I realize that I cannot because the Vine Tree has hydro immunity and cannot be targeted by my Geyser spell.

Is this the intended interaction between the spells? Quite simply, it seems odd that I would not be able to "water" my plants.  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Laddinfance on October 29, 2013, 12:39:34 AM
Since all of the plants have hydro immunity, does that mean we won't be able to use water spells to extinguish any burn debuffs on our plants?  The rules for immunity state that the object with immunity cannot be targeted or affected by any spell of that type.

Example: My Vine Tree was targeted by a Fireball and now has a single burn marker on it.  I consider casting Geyser to remove this pesky burn token, but I realize that I cannot because the Vine Tree has hydro immunity and cannot be targeted by my Geyser spell.

Is this the intended interaction between the spells? Quite simply, it seems odd that I would not be able to "water" my plants.  Thanks in advance!

You'll want to take a look at the new FAQ coming out soon. I'm fairly certain this is covered.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Wiz-Pig on October 29, 2013, 08:10:38 AM
Is this the intended interaction between the spells? Quite simply, it seems odd that I would not be able to "water" my plants.  Thanks in advance!

I don't think it's the intended interaction per se, but they are sticking by their guns and working around the issue with other spells designed to address burn markers on plants.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on October 29, 2013, 09:58:22 AM
Yes I saw it in the FAQ.  8)

Can not talk about it till the final wording is chosen.  :-X
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 31, 2013, 06:48:06 PM
If Shaggoth consumes/obliterates a plague zombie, will all living creatures in zone still receive a rot condition?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: lettucemode on October 31, 2013, 09:00:03 PM
IIRC part of the definition of Obliterate is that any effects whose source is the obliterated creature or things attached to it do not trigger. So no, they would not get the rot condition. SGZ still gets his growth marker though, and the graveyard still gets its mana, because those effects aren't sourced from the creature.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: HomelessJoe on October 31, 2013, 10:18:13 PM
Thanks dude. Would have been a cool way to build Shaggoth up. But also a bit op.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: wtcannonjr on November 07, 2013, 05:47:00 PM
The new published Codex for DvN doesn't specify how Snatch works through a wall with Passage Attack.

Is there no mana cost to Snatch a creature through a Bloodspine Wall or can this not be done?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 07, 2013, 09:19:04 PM
I see nothing preventing you from doing it. No mana necessary.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Kharhaz on November 07, 2013, 09:38:02 PM
The new published Codex for DvN doesn't specify how Snatch works through a wall with Passage Attack.

Is there no mana cost to Snatch a creature through a Bloodspine Wall or can this not be done?

It is a push effect if I remember correctly, and follows all the rules as per codex / FAQ
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 08, 2013, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: Kharhaz
It is a push effect if I remember correctly, and follows all the rules as per codex / FAQ

Exactly, and there's nothing that says you have to pay extra mana to push something through a wall. Except for a couple of specific spells, but that's in regards to those spells, not the push effect in general.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on November 12, 2013, 06:26:40 AM
I assume that Ravenous Ghoul will not be able to feast in a zone where only a REANIMATED creature(s) has died.

Reanimate happens as soon as the creature recieves the death blow, and the card is taken from the discard pile and put into play face down. Since the creature is no longer in a discard pile when the ghoul is activated i assume the above.

Agree / disagree?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 12, 2013, 06:48:46 AM
Quote from: Ravenous Ghoul
as a quick action it may take that creature from its discard pile and remove it from the game to gain a Growth marker.

Quote from: Codex for Reanimate
If this creature is destroyed, it is moved from the discard pile to the zone it was just destroyed in, and placed face down in that zone, with a face-down action marker on it. This creature is considered temporarily out of play.

Quote from: New Rules
When an object is removed from the game, unless an ability or effect specifically says otherwise, it is beyond the reach of any effect or ability in the game, and has no effect on anything in the game.

Reading the above text I think it is pretty clear that your assumption is correct. The ravenous ghoul can not feast because the creature is currently removed from play.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on November 12, 2013, 07:14:42 AM
Quote from: Ravenous Ghoul
as a quick action it may take that creature from its discard pile and remove it from the game to gain a Growth marker.

Quote from: Codex for Reanimate
If this creature is destroyed, it is moved from the discard pile to the zone it was just destroyed in, and placed face down in that zone, with a face-down action marker on it. This creature is considered temporarily out of play.

Quote from: New Rules
When an object is removed from the game, unless an ability or effect specifically says otherwise, it is beyond the reach of any effect or ability in the game, and has no effect on anything in the game.

Reading the above text I think it is pretty clear that your assumption is correct. The ravenous ghoul can not feast because the creature is currently removed from play.

Correct
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on November 12, 2013, 09:14:57 AM
Do the discount from Death ring (pay 1 less mana when casting undead or necro spells) kick in when reanimating?

There might be a slight difference between Eternal servant (necro special) and the remaining ways to renanimate such as Ziggurath (conjuration) and Rise again (enchantment).
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 12, 2013, 09:27:34 AM
The discount from Death Ring kicks in when you cast or reveal a necro or undead spell. You do not get the bonus just because the spell caused a reanimate effect. The spell MUST have the necro or undead subtype. If it happens to also reanimate, that is just a happy coincidence.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 12, 2013, 09:34:53 AM
To answer specificly, Eternal Servant does not get the discount. Neither does Ziggurat of Undeath. They are do not have either the Necro or Undead subtypes. Rise Again does receive the discount, but it has a reveal cost of 0 so it can't be reduced further.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on November 12, 2013, 11:46:02 AM
To answer specificly, Eternal Servant does not get the discount. Neither does Ziggurat of Undeath. They are do not have either the Necro or Undead subtypes. Rise Again does receive the discount, but it has a reveal cost of 0 so it can't be reduced further.


Also correct and that gives you 3 stickers. Enjoy 8)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on November 13, 2013, 03:06:20 PM
Seedling pod and range on spells?

Seedling Pod:
"... It may cast 1 plant creature or conjuration which targets its zone, an object in its zone or a border of its zone. If it does, destroy seedling pod."

So here we see that when you use the spawnpoint effect of Seedling Pod whatever spell you wanna cast has range 0-0.

Vine markers:
As the Druid, or any object she controls, casts a vine spell, you can destroy a target Vine marker she controls as an additional cost to cast that spell.
If you do, you may target that Vine marker’s zone, an object in that Vine marker’s zone, or a border of that Vine marker’s zone, ignoring range.

This leads me to believe that Seedling Pods actually can cast outside its own zone. The requirement is that the seedling spell cast a spell with subtype plant and vine.
Alot of nature spells has both vine and plant as subtyp and these live up to both criterias.

Is this intended by design? Seedling pod can cast non-vine plant spells in its own zone, and plant AND vine spells in its own zone + any zone it has LOS to with a vine marker?


EDIT:
Added more info to vine markers (copy/paste from rulebook)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 13, 2013, 03:20:30 PM
I can not answer if it is intended by design. Someone from the actual design team would have to answer that. However, that is the way it would function as currently written.

I believe ACG is correct.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: ACG on November 13, 2013, 03:23:10 PM
Seedling pod and range on spells?

Seedling Pod:
"... It may cast 1 plant creature or conjuration which targets its zone, an object in its zone or a border of its zone. If it does, destroy seedling pod."

So here we see that when you use the spawnpoint effect of Seedling Pod whatever spell you wanna cast has range 0-0.

Vine markers:
As the Druid, or any object she controls, casts a
vine spell, you can destroy a target Vine marker
she controls as an additional cost to cast that spell

This leads me to believe that Seedling Pods actually can cast outside its own zone. The requirement is that the seedling spell cast a spell with subtype plant and vine.
Alot of nature spells has both vine and plant as subtyp and these live up to both criterias.

Is this intended by design? Seedling pod can cast non-vine plant spells in its own zone, and plant AND vine spells in its own zone + any zone it has LOS to with a vine marker?

Text on the card overrides more general rules. The text on Seedling Pod is more specific than the Druid's ability, and places strict limits on how it can cast its spell, so it takes precedence.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: lettucemode on November 13, 2013, 03:29:41 PM
That's a pretty good insight, jacksmack, but I think you would have to resolve the Seedling Pod's ability first before you could start resolving the Druid's ability. I think the order of effects would be:

1) Seedling pod casts plant spell
2) Resolve plant spell
3) Seedling Pod is destroyed
4) Druid ability starts to activate but then fizzles since the spell being cast has already been resolved.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on November 14, 2013, 01:57:28 AM
Im not sold yet.

@ACG
I consider (perhaps wrongly) the druid stat card to have the same level of authority/priority as a other cards.
AKA both above the rules - equally above.

@Lettucemode
You dont resolve anything before you have declared a target and checked for LOS and Range and pay mana.
Other spells are not casted into Zone A, being resolved there, and then transfered to Zone B with a vine marker.


I see that i copied too little to my first post about the Vine marker - i will edit it with the remaining info.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 14, 2013, 02:12:31 AM
You make a valid point, Jacksmack, and I would love to hear an official answer on it. However, until then, I still believe ACG is correct. Here is why:

The Druid's ability does not contradict the rules. The text on the Druid card is unnecessary past "During the Deployment Phase, you may place a Vine marker in a zone." After that, they could have just expected players to read the codex and memorize what Vine Markers do. I believe the remaining Druid text is to remind you of the rules, not to supercede them. Therefore, the specifics of the Seedling Pod takes precedence over the general rules outlined in the Codex and repeated on the Druid Ability Card.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on November 14, 2013, 02:20:15 AM
You make a valid point, Jacksmack, and I would love to hear an official answer on it. However, until then, I still believe ACG is correct. Here is why:

The Druid's ability does not contradict the rules. The text on the Druid card is unnecessary past "During the Deployment Phase, you may place a Vine marker in a zone." After that, they could have just expected players to read the codex and memorize what Vine Markers do. I believe the remaining Druid text is to remind you of the rules, not to supercede them. Therefore, the specifics of the Seedling Pod takes precedence over the general rules outlined in the Codex and repeated on the Druid Ability Card.

Now i think you are right.

But i think its a clumsy way compared to just adding this to the seedling pod "this spawnpoint cannot use vine markers".
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: lettucemode on November 14, 2013, 08:01:42 AM
@Lettucemode
You dont resolve anything before you have declared a target and checked for LOS and Range and pay mana.
Other spells are not casted into Zone A, being resolved there, and then transfered to Zone B with a vine marker.

When I said "resolve" I was not using the Mage Wars definition of resolve, as in the Resolve Spell step. I was using the more general gaming definition. As soon as you say "I am casting this spell", paying the mana and checking range and LoS are absolutely a part of resolving that casting effect (under the more general definition of the term).

Your second sentence supports my point. All spawnpoints have restrictions upon what they can cast and how. When casting a spell with a spawnpoint, you must resolve (again, more general definition) that spawnpoint's casting effect before starting to resolve any others. In this case, by the time the Druid's vine marker ability could start to occur, the spell cast by the Seedling Pod already has a target (and has in fact been resolved entirely due to the "Then, "), so the Druid's ability does nothing.

This is different from Samara Tree or Vine Tree because their casting effects only say "You may cast a <type> spell". Since these effects do not mention targeting or say "Then, ", it resolves as soon as you say "The Vine Tree casts this spell". Now there is room for the Druid's ability to take effect.

ACG/Zuberi's explanation also makes sense to me and is a lot simpler to explain.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: wtcannonjr on November 14, 2013, 08:55:07 PM
It appears to me that the wording "As the Druid, or any object she controls..." allows Seedling Pod (an object controlled by the Druid) to destroy a target Vine marker and effectively change the zone of Seedling Pod's spell (assuming is has both Plant and Vine sub-types). Targeting rules would apply between the Seedling Pod (object) and the Vine being destroyed, but the range requirement is ignored.

All Spawnpoint objects have limitations on the spells they cast. The Druid ability and Vine Marker codex wording clearly intend for Druid controlled objects to cast Vine spells from Vine Markers. Why are we singling out the poor Seedling Pod as something to treat differently?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Kharhaz on November 14, 2013, 09:16:38 PM
Seedpods can not use vine markers.

The codex of vine markers states who can use them:

the druid, her familiars, and tree spawn points.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: lettucemode on November 14, 2013, 09:24:09 PM
All Spawnpoint objects have limitations on the spells they cast. The Druid ability and Vine Marker codex wording clearly intend for Druid controlled objects to cast Vine spells from Vine Markers. Why are we singling out the poor Seedling Pod as something to treat differently?

Because:

1) You can't resolve both abilities at the same time
2) The text on the Seedling Pod card takes precedence because that's the card you're casting the spell with
3) The text "If it does, destroy Seedling Pod" implies that by the time you destroy the Seedling Pod, the spell it casts has been fully resolved (or the target has been chosen, at least)
4) Therefore the Druid's Vine Marker ability does not begin to resolve until after the Seedling Pod casting effect has fully resolved
5) Therefore the Druid's Vine Marker ability does not affect the targeting of the spell cast by Seedling Pod.

As soon as you reveal the spell to be cast by the Vine or Samara trees, if it is the correct spell type, you have satisfied their casting effects and may then begin resolving other effects, such as the Druid's Vine Marker ability. But you have not satisfied the Seedling Pod casting effect until you have fully resolved the spell it casts and destroyed the Seedling Pod. So in the case of the Seedling Pod there is not "time" for the Vine Marker ability to come into play.

I attempted to explain this in the post immediately preceding yours but either you did not read it fully or I was not clear enough. Hopefully this post is a better explanation.

Also, what Kharhaz said.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 14, 2013, 09:29:09 PM
Seedling pod is the only Spawnpoint that has targeting restrictions though. Lets take a look at the text:
Quote from: Vine Tree
During the Deployment Phase, Vine Tree may cast 1 vine creature or conjuration.
Quote from: Samara Tree
During the Deployment Phase, Samara Tree may cast 1 Seedling Pod spell.
Quote from: Seedling Pod
During the Deployment Phase, if there is 3 or more mana on Seedling Pod, it may cast 1 plant creature or conjuration which targets its zone, an object in its zone, or a border of its zone.

It is very clear that Seedling Pods wording is much more specific than the others. It has targeting restrictions and the others do not. The rules state on page 2 of v2.0 Rulebook, "In all cases, if there is a conflict between the text on a spell card and these rules, the spell card always takes precedence." Thus, the specifics of the Seedling Pod takes precedence over the general rule outlined in the Codex and repeated on the Druid Ability Card.

Now, an argument could be made that since there is text on the Druid Ability Card that outlines the rules for casting from vine markers that it also takes precedence over the general rule and is thus equal to the text on the Seedling Pod. I do not believe this is the case, because the Druid Ability Card does not CONFLICT with the rules, which is the time when cards are listed as taking precedence. If you believe differently though, then you do indeed have a serious question on your hands. As both cards would be equal in priority and both effects happen simultaneously during the Cast Spell step. There would be nothing to determine which one to go by.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: lettucemode on November 14, 2013, 09:31:31 PM
As both cards would be equal in priority and both effects happen simultaneously during the Cast Spell step. There would be nothing to determine which one to go by.

The player with initiative would decide  :o
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 14, 2013, 09:35:29 PM
Quote from: kharhaz
The codex of vine markers states who can use them:
the druid, her familiars, and tree spawn points.

I would appreciate a more specific reference, kharhaz. I looked in the codex under vine markers and saw no such wording.

Quote from: lettucemode
The player with initiative would decide
Indeed, that's the only way I could see it working as well. IF people ruled that the Druid Ability Card overrides the rules. I still maintain that it does not.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: lettucemode on November 14, 2013, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: lettucemode
The player with initiative would decide
Indeed, that's the only way I could see it working as well. IF people ruled that the Druid Ability Card overrides the rules. I still maintain that it does not.

Agreed, such a situation is extremely silly and has no place in a competitive game. The absurdity of it should be reason enough to conclude that Seedling Pods are not played as suggested. I think the ruling is pretty clear if one follows the logic behind resolving effects found in pretty much every card and board game ever.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Aylin on November 15, 2013, 06:19:42 PM
There's been an official answer for almost two months. This (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=572954276074002&set=pb.201117713257662.-2207520000.1384560348.&type=3&theater) facebook photo has a comment from Mage Wars that should clear it up:

Joshua: If the spell it's a vine spell, can the seedling pod target a zone with the vine token instead of its own zone?

Mage Wars: Unfortunately, no. The seedling pod can only spawn something in its own zone as that is where it's growing it.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 15, 2013, 06:53:05 PM
Thank you Aylinis for the reference to an official word on the subject. They also mention that they clarify things in the next FAQ, which is good to hear.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Laddinfance on November 15, 2013, 07:10:26 PM
Bryan has been crazy this week, but I plan on inquiring when the FAQ will be released. It should be very soon!
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: wtcannonjr on November 15, 2013, 07:40:57 PM
Thank you Aylinis for the reference to an official word on the subject. They also mention that they clarify things in the next FAQ, which is good to hear.

Thanks. Good to know this will be covered in the FAQ. Here is the wording for Vine Marker from the published PDF of the DvN rules and codex.

Vine Markers (Game Marker)
Vine markers are a Living conjuration with 1
life, no armor, and they cannot gain armor.
Vine markers hinder enemy non-Flying
creatures. Any amount of damage will destroy
a Vine Marker, regardless of its total life.
They can’t be targeted by ranged attacks. Any
number of Vine markers can occupy a zone.
As the Druid, or any object she controls, casts a
vine spell, you can destroy a target Vine marker
she controls as an additional cost to cast that spell. If you do, you
may target that Vine marker’s zone, an object in that Vine marker’s
zone, or a border of that Vine marker’s zone, ignoring range.
If two or more Druids are playing, each should use a different side
of the Vine marker to distinguish ownership.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Laddinfance on November 15, 2013, 07:57:33 PM
I checked my DVN rulebook last night and It had the "tree spawnpoint" wording. I'll get the proper rulebook loaded. I'm very sorry that we have the wrong one up.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: MrSaucy on November 28, 2013, 05:52:59 PM
Hi all!

I am very confused about how Reanimate/Eternal Servant works.

In the DvN codex, under Reanimate:

"This creature reanimates upon death. If this creature is destroyed, it is moved from the discard pile to the zone it was just destroyed in, and placed face down in that zone, with a face-down action marker on it."

I completely get this part. But then it says:

"This creature is considered temporarily out of play. At the end of the round, the creature card is flipped face up and is Summoned into play."

I don't understand this part. When it says the creature "is summoned," do you pay for the creature again as though you were summoning it normally? Or does "is summoned" mean you get the creature summoned automatically and for free?

So I looked at the Necromancer's ability card for some clarification. Under Eternal Servant is reads:

"If this creature is destroyed, you may pay mana equal to its casting cost to Reanimate it." This just confused me even more. When it says you "may" pay mana this implies you don't HAVE to bring the creature back - you can just leave them dead. But in the codex under Reanimate it says the creature "is summoned," making it sound like you have no choice in the matter. The ability card explicitly says you have to pay mana to get the creature back. But in the  codex under Reanimate it mentions nothing about having to pay mana.

To make things even more complicated, making something an Eternal Servant grants the creature the Reanimate effect, so I don't know if Reanimate and Eternal Servant have different rulings.

Somebody please clarify this for me! I would greatly appreciate it!
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 28, 2013, 06:25:46 PM
Eternal Servant is a Condition that gives the creature Piercing +1. It does not grant the creature Reanimate, as Reanimate is not a Trait or Condition that can be carried with something. Reanimate is an Effect, meaning it is a brief, one time, immediate occurance. When your Eternal Servant dies, you have the option to Reanimate it then. You must make this decision immediately, as once the round moves past this point you no longer have the option.

Reanimate has no innate costs to it. I can't think of any effect that has an innate cost to it. The spells and abilities that cause the Reanimate effect do have costs though. For example, Eternal Servant requires you to pay the creature's normal casting cost in order to apply the Reanimate effect.

At the end of the Reanimate effect, it causes the creature card to be Summoned into play. This simply means it is treated as a brand new creature. It does not have any additional cost associated with it.

Quote from: MrSaucy
When it says you "may" pay mana this implies you don't HAVE to bring the creature back - you can just leave them dead. But in the codex under Reanimate it says the creature "is summoned," making it sound like you have no choice in the matter.

You don't have to Reanimate your Eternal Servant. You have the option whether you want to or not. If you do Reanimate the creature though, then you HAVE to summon it. That is part of the Reanimate effect and is not optional.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: MrSaucy on November 28, 2013, 08:59:46 PM
Okay. I think I understand. Thanks Zuberi.

So say I make a creature an eternal servant and he dies. If I don't want to reanimate my eternal servant, I just forget about him. Thereafter I can make any creature summoned afterwards an eternal servant.  If I do want to reanimate my eternal servant, I can do so by paying the creature's normal mana cost. Thereafter I MAY give the same creature the eternal servant token if I want to. It isn't binding.

If I choose to reanimate an eternal servant I must do this by the end of the round in which the creature was killed AND the creature must be summoned to the same zone where he was destroyed, right? I also assume that normal summoning rules apply to reanimated creatures (i.e. the creature cannot take an action in the same round he was summoned).

Played my first game as Necromancer today. (Absolutely loved him!) Fortunately my eternal servant never died so I didn't have to worry about reanimating him.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on November 28, 2013, 10:17:47 PM
You are correct on almost everything now. The only thing I would like to specify is the fact that you have to choose whether or not you're going to reanimate him immediately after he dies. You do not have until the end of the Round to decide, you have that moment and just that moment to decide. Whatever action caused his death, you have to decide immediately afterwards if you're going to reanimate. Then as soon as another action takes place, you can not change your decision.

If you do choose to Reanimate, the creature is put face down in the same zone he was just destroyed in and is considered out of play. He comes into play at the end of the round with an upside down (exhausted) action marker. Start of next round, during the ready phase, this action marker is flipped upright and the creature is ready to act.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: MrSaucy on November 28, 2013, 11:02:23 PM
Oh I see. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. At first I thought the mechanics were a little broken but they seem balanced now that I understand them.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on November 30, 2013, 12:16:35 PM
You are correct on almost everything now. The only thing I would like to specify is the fact that you have to choose whether or not you're going to reanimate him immediately after he dies. You do not have until the end of the Round to decide, you have that moment and just that moment to decide. Whatever action caused his death, you have to decide immediately afterwards if you're going to reanimate. Then as soon as another action takes place, you can not change your decision.

If you do choose to Reanimate, the creature is put face down in the same zone he was just destroyed in and is considered out of play. He comes into play at the end of the round with an upside down (exhausted) action marker. Start of next round, during the ready phase, this action marker is flipped upright and the creature is ready to act.

Zuberi gets another round
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: abyssalstalker on December 09, 2013, 08:15:03 AM
Good morning,

Played a game of Mage Wars last night using all the current expansions. As we played some questions crossed my mind that could use clarification. If it's possible that someone could point out in the FAQ or Codex where the answer lies that would be fantastic. Our group is rather big on rule-lawyering and prefer an official ruling.

- With the Druid's Corrosive Orchid I was under the impression that its attack follows the same rules as the Temple of Light and Akiro's Hammer. Essentially, you can use the orchid before or after any friendly creatures action phase. However, it was pointed out that those cards have that phrase printed on them but the Corrosive Orchid does not. Is the Orchid intended to be used in this manner? The Temple and Hammer also say keep a ready token on to keep track of its attack. Does the Orchid also receive this benefit or does it only attack once? I am aware the Mist Token is a one shot deal if it is utilized.

- I have the same questions for the Nightshade Lotus as I do the Corrosive Orchid but I just wanted to make sure it follows the same rules.

- The Etherian Lifetree states, "All living creatures and conjurations gain +2 innate life." It was argued that the tree applied to all living creatures and non-living and living conjurations. Basically they had proposed it would say "living creatures and living conjurations" if the conjuration part was meant to only apply to living.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Aylin on December 09, 2013, 08:50:53 AM
Good morning,

Played a game of Mage Wars last night using all the current expansions. As we played some questions crossed my mind that could use clarification. If it's possible that someone could point out in the FAQ or Codex where the answer lies that would be fantastic. Our group is rather big on rule-lawyering and prefer an official ruling.

- With the Druid's Corrosive Orchid I was under the impression that its attack follows the same rules as the Temple of Light and Akiro's Hammer. Essentially, you can use the orchid before or after any friendly creatures action phase. However, it was pointed out that those cards have that phrase printed on them but the Corrosive Orchid does not. Is the Orchid intended to be used in this manner? The Temple and Hammer also say keep a ready token on to keep track of its attack. Does the Orchid also receive this benefit or does it only attack once? I am aware the Mist Token is a one shot deal if it is utilized.

- I have the same questions for the Nightshade Lotus as I do the Corrosive Orchid but I just wanted to make sure it follows the same rules.

- The Etherian Lifetree states, "All living creatures and conjurations gain +2 innate life." It was argued that the tree applied to all living creatures and non-living and living conjurations. Basically they had proposed it would say "living creatures and living conjurations" if the conjuration part was meant to only apply to living.

In the new rulebook, there is a section of New Rules.

Conjuration Attack Actions:
If a conjuration has an attack bar, then once per round, before or after any friendly creature's Action Phase, it can make attach. Use a ready marker to keep track of making that attack. Unless the spell text says otherwise, you can make the attack once per round, and the conjuration can make its attack the same round it comes into play.


For Etherian Lifetree, the Living qualifier applies to both creatures and conjurations. It's intended to make Living things harder to kill, not nonliving things.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on December 09, 2013, 08:52:42 AM
1) In the Druid vs Necromancer Rulebook, in the Rules section right before the Codex, it mentions that any Conjuration with an attack action may use that attack before or after a friendly creature action phase and that you should use a ready marker to keep track of it. This frees up space on the card so that they don't have to keep printing the same mechanic.

2) See above.

3) This unfortunately is not clarified in the rules. I personally agree with the interpretation that it only affects living creatures and living conjurations, but the word choice is admittedly vague.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Laddinfance on December 10, 2013, 12:03:52 AM
- The Etherian Lifetree states, "All living creatures and conjurations gain +2 innate life." It was argued that the tree applied to all living creatures and non-living and living conjurations. Basically they had proposed it would say "living creatures and living conjurations" if the conjuration part was meant to only apply to living.

3) This unfortunately is not clarified in the rules. I personally agree with the interpretation that it only affects living creatures and living conjurations, but the word choice is admittedly vague.

This is more than likely my fault. My formal training is in English and, though sometimes my spelling and grammar can be atrocious, the way that this sentence is written means that the "living" adjective applies to both creatures and conjurations.

TL:DR - It's an English thing. The Etherian Lifetree only adds life to living creatures and living conjurations.

Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: abyssalstalker on December 10, 2013, 08:56:42 AM
Thank you for clearing this up!
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: abyssalstalker on December 19, 2013, 09:30:45 AM
Been playing a couple more games and this question came up: for Thronlashers is Snatch mandatory?

Sometimes I'd like to just use the ranged attack and not pull the creature towards me. Can I not roll the D12 or chose not to snatch if successfully rolled?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: jacksmack on December 19, 2013, 09:49:09 AM
Been playing a couple more games and this question came up: for Thronlashers is Snatch mandatory?

Sometimes I'd like to just use the ranged attack and not pull the creature towards me. Can I not roll the D12 or chose not to snatch if successfully rolled?

no.

Neither can you roll less dice when you wish to wake up a sleeping creature or choose not to apply burn (if you attack with a flame attack that can cause this).
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: isel on February 03, 2014, 09:24:58 AM
when etherian says all living creatures aare include opponent´s?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Kroko on February 03, 2014, 09:33:31 AM
Yes, Etherian Life Tree gives HP to all Living creatur on the field, that include your oponent creatures.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on February 03, 2014, 10:03:14 AM
Yes, Etherian Life Tree gives HP to all Living creatures on the field, that include your opponents creatures.

Correct if it would have been just you it would read all friendly living creatures.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: RedDevilPsycho on February 04, 2014, 06:29:15 PM
Hi,

Sorry for the Noob question. Re Zora the card states when Zora is activated it may obliterate 1 hapless Zombie in the zone....... I was not sure if in doing this his full action has been taken or does he do this prior to then moving and or attacking in the same round.  Your help would be much appreciated. Love the Necro, played with skellies against the Druid, she was all over me with vine markers, used the Altar of skulls with the Acolytes, defended by 2 Bone Walls and Mort. The Altar did 10 damage to all the plants and the druid before she could finally destroy the altar. Love this game :)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on February 04, 2014, 09:05:10 PM
Shaggoth-Zora does not spend any actions to use the obliterate effect. The effect is triggered just by activating him (if you wish it to be), and then shaggie gets his full action as normal.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on February 04, 2014, 09:07:51 PM
It should be noted that activating a creature happens before they take any actions though, so shaggie must start in the same zone as a friendly zombie in order to use the obliterate effect.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: sIKE on February 05, 2014, 12:18:03 AM
It should be noted that activating a creature happens before they take any actions though, so shaggie must start in the same zone as a friendly zombie in order to use the obliterate effect.
Good, that how I ruled it (in my own brain) too...
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on February 05, 2014, 09:41:10 AM
Zuberi (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?action=profile;u=3693)

Gets another one  8)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: RedDevilPsycho on February 05, 2014, 04:15:35 PM
 :D :D :D Sweet, when I played the other nigth my mate said it was a full move, he is going to be sooo pissed. Thanks
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: RedDevilPsycho on February 06, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
Sorry, another quick question. Am I correct in thinking Idol of Pestience will do damage to my Necro each round if I use it? Thanks
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on February 06, 2014, 05:16:56 PM
Sorry, another quick question. Am I correct in thinking Idol of Pestience will do damage to my Necro each round if I use it? Thanks

The Necro is poison immune.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Gizzu on February 06, 2014, 05:17:34 PM
Sorry, another quick question. Am I correct in thinking Idol of Pestience will do damage to my Necro each round if I use it? Thanks

No, in recent FAQs , they told that Idol does POISON damage, so Necro is immune to it.

CYA,
G.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: RedDevilPsycho on February 06, 2014, 06:24:11 PM
Thanks guys, owe you big time
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: RedDevilPsycho on February 16, 2014, 04:36:49 PM
Hi,

Sorry. Trying to work out Ziggurat & Rise Again, say on a Flaming Hellion, would I now have a zombie with say 6 life but with flame immunity. Would that zombie attack using fame? Or do I just have a bog standard zombie with the life reduction?

Thanks
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: baronzaltor on February 16, 2014, 04:53:59 PM
Hi,

Sorry. Trying to work out Ziggurat & Rise Again, say on a Flaming Hellion, would I now have a zombie with say 6 life but with flame immunity. Would that zombie attack using fame? Or do I just have a bog standard zombie with the life reduction?

Thanks

Yes, all the traits on a creature and its attacks are carried over when rise again is used.
The only difference is they gain a zombie token, which makes them non-living, Zombie subtyped, Bloodthirsty +0, and Slow.

Zombie Hellions still have fire attacks, Zombie Sir Corazin still has 2 Defenses and Double Strike, and so on.

Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: sIKE on February 16, 2014, 05:05:54 PM
Hi,

Sorry. Trying to work out Ziggurat & Rise Again, say on a Flaming Hellion, would I now have a zombie with say 6 life but with flame immunity. Would that zombie attack using fame? Or do I just have a bog standard zombie with the life reduction?

Thanks
So one question I have if I have a fast creature and it is zombiefied is it now normal speed? I know in the past Fast + Slow = Normal
Yes, all the traits on a creature and its attacks are carried over when rise again is used.
The only difference is they gain a zombie token, which makes them non-living, Zombie subtyped, Bloodthirsty +0, and Slow.

Zombie Hellions still have fire attacks, Zombie Sir Corazin still has 2 Defenses and Double Strike, and so on.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on February 16, 2014, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: sPIKE
So one question I have if I have a fast creature and it is zombiefied is it now normal speed? I know in the past Fast + Slow = Normal.

Yes, the fast and slow traits still cancel each other out, so the zombie would be normal speed.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: RedDevilPsycho on March 25, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Hi, having trouble taking on the warlock. If I bring back one of his creatures that was flame immune would the new zombie be flame immune? Thanks for all the help to date :)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: baronzaltor on March 25, 2014, 04:21:08 PM
Hi, having trouble taking on the warlock. If I bring back one of his creatures that was flame immune would the new zombie be flame immune? Thanks for all the help to date :)
Yep.  Reanimating a creature with Rise Again/Zigguraut/Animate Dead does not change anything printed on their card, all that happens is they gain the effects that come with the Zombie Condition Marker in addition to what they already do naturally.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: sIKE on March 25, 2014, 04:43:43 PM
Hi, having trouble taking on the warlock. If I bring back one of his creatures that was flame immune would the new zombie be flame immune? Thanks for all the help to date :)
Yep.  Reanimating a creature with Rise Again/Zigguraut/Animate Dead does not change anything printed on their card, all that happens is they gain the effects that come with the Zombie Condition Marker in addition to what they already do naturally.
Other than the Regenerate trait of course.....
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: baronzaltor on March 25, 2014, 04:56:10 PM
Hi, having trouble taking on the warlock. If I bring back one of his creatures that was flame immune would the new zombie be flame immune? Thanks for all the help to date :)
Yep.  Reanimating a creature with Rise Again/Zigguraut/Animate Dead does not change anything printed on their card, all that happens is they gain the effects that come with the Zombie Condition Marker in addition to what they already do naturally.
Other than the Regenerate trait of course.....

Well, they still keep regenerate.. so that doesn't change.  They just also gain Nonliving/Finite Life from the zombie token, so it just doesn't do anything.  But its still there.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: sIKE on March 25, 2014, 05:10:56 PM
Potato / Potatoe

Net net it doesn't regenerate, its the same to me if you said it has the flying trait, but can't fly.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: RedDevilPsycho on March 25, 2014, 05:24:27 PM
As ever, thanks guys, I'm a real noob so it is much appreciated. Still not sure how best to beat the warlock but this should help.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: flamespeak on April 06, 2014, 12:43:41 AM
Got a question about the Altar of Skulls. Me and a buddy did a necro and druid run the other day and made up our rules to fill in the gaps on the fly for what we thought made the most sense, but an official ruling would be appreciated.

When the altar of skulls is activated, does the 2 direct poison damage to all living creatures on the board affect his plants that are conjurations and have life totals? Does it affect his vines?

We decided that it did because poison effects all living thing including plants and it was a way to effectively clear the board of his vines and plants. Not quickly at all mind you, but it did turn the tide greatly toward the end of the game. We decided any living thing with life total that was living would be affected by the poison markers be they conjurations or creatures, however, anything without a life total or non-living would not be affected. For example, his trees would get smacked by poison damage, however, a warlords barracks and towers wouldn't.

You know, keeping with the whole smiting of living things theme.

It would be nice to get an official stance on this if I ever do any kind of tournament play, but we will probably keep the local rules the same because it made the most sense thematically.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on April 06, 2014, 01:09:43 AM
The Altar of Skulls only effects living creatures. Vines, flowers, etc are Conjurations and are thus immune.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: wtcannonjr on April 06, 2014, 09:52:59 AM
The Altar of Skulls only effects living creatures. Vines, flowers, etc are Conjurations and are thus immune.

Agreed.

The key is to read the target information for spells and effects very carefully and this almost always clarifies who is effected.

Note - I consider "...only effects..." to be equivalent to "...targets..." for this message. :)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on April 06, 2014, 11:42:29 AM
You are actually correct that living conjurations are vulnerable to poison effects. They can suffer from rot and other forms of poison damage. However, the Altar of Skulls specifically says that it only affects creatures. Conjurations and vines obviously are not creatures.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on April 07, 2014, 09:31:35 AM
Potato / Potatoe

Net net it doesn't regenerate, its the same to me if you said it has the flying trait, but can't fly.

Having the ability and not being able to gain is different then not having it at all. The trigger tries to resolve each upkeep do it can not. This is important because if you had a way to turn off Finite Life it would still be able to regenerate.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on April 07, 2014, 09:35:12 AM
You are actually correct that living conjurations are vulnerable to poison effects. They can suffer from rot and other forms of poison damage. However, the Altar of Skulls specifically says that it only affects creatures. Conjurations and vines obviously are not creatures.

Always read the effect and target info Altar of Skulls specifically says that it only affects creatures. The vines are not creatures they are Conjurations.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Mika on December 06, 2014, 04:20:23 AM
Hi all!

I need another example to understad how the "Corrode Removing mechanism" works:

Quote from: Arcane Wonders
Example: "A Druid has 2 Corrode markers on her, and a Bearskin. Her current armor value is 0. If she would receive another Corrode condition, she instead receives 1 direct acid damage. She decides to cast Wind Wyvern Hide (which has the same location as Bearskin, and thus will replace it.) When the Bearskin is removed, the Druid has zero armor and thus both Corrode markers are destroyed. Then, the Wind Wyvern Hide comes into play, and the Druid now has an armor value of 2."

Ok, now lets check this other situation:

Quote
Example: "A Druid has 3 Corrode markers on her, and  Bearskin, Leather Boots and Leather Gloves (Armor 4). Her current armor value is 1... She decides to cast a 2nd Bearskin (which has the same location, and thus will replace it.) When the Bearskin is removed, the Druid has Armor 2 and..."

- What happens with 3 Corrode markers? All them are destroyed? Only 1 in order to have Armo value equal to zero?

Thanks in advance.   :)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: sIKE on December 06, 2014, 08:48:52 AM
Ok, now lets check this other situation:

Quote
Example: "A Druid has 3 Corrode markers on her, and  Bearskin, Leather Boots and Leather Gloves (Armor 4). Her current armor value is 1... She decides to cast a 2nd Bearskin (which has the same location, and thus will replace it.) When the Bearskin is removed, the Druid has Armor 2 and..."

- What happens with 3 Corrode markers? All them are destroyed? Only 1 in order to have Armo value equal to zero?

When the 2nd Bearskin is cast the Mage drops down to two Armor then one of the Corrode markers is removed.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Mika on December 06, 2014, 12:23:40 PM
Understood. Better a pair of "Wand of Healing" in our Book...

Very kind of you, sIKE  :)
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: sIKE on December 06, 2014, 12:30:13 PM
Understand. Better a pair of "Wand of Healing" in our Book...

Very kind of you, sIKE  :)
No problem, I have adopted to this Corrode environment by carrying a 2 count of 2 Armor equipment and a Brace Yourself. This way if I get Corroded I can swap out with the other piece and then when a high damage roll (mainly non-critical of course) is mage against me, I will reveal the enchantment before the Apply Damage step of the Attack Sequence.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Shad0w on December 09, 2014, 12:15:07 AM
Nice work Sike I gave you a sticker for the answer.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: reddawn on December 14, 2014, 07:18:56 PM
Can the Vine Tree cast the Vine Markers?  I interpreted the wording meaning that the Vine Tree cannot cast them.  The FAQ doesn't have a Vine Tree section so I'm asking you guys.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Laddinfance on December 14, 2014, 07:30:53 PM
Vine Tree is a tree spawnpoint and so it can use the vine markers when it's casting a vine spell.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: reddawn on December 14, 2014, 07:34:27 PM
Vine Tree is a tree spawnpoint and so it can use the vine markers when it's casting a vine spell.

I meant more like, can the Vine Tree itself actually place vine markers and using its own mana?
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: Zuberi on December 14, 2014, 10:32:37 PM
The text of the Vine Tree reads: "During the Deployment Phase, you may pay 1 mana to place 1 additional Vine marker with your Spreading Vines ability."

This means that when the Druid uses her Spreading Vines ability she may place 2 markers instead of 1 if she pays 1 mana to do so. There is no separate casting for the extra Vine Marker, it is not cast by the tree, and you may not use the tree's mana to pay for it.
Title: Re: DvN rules questions
Post by: reddawn on December 15, 2014, 12:43:38 AM
Thanks Zub, thats the answer I was looking for.