Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Marhem on August 29, 2014, 09:22:10 AM

Title: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Marhem on August 29, 2014, 09:22:10 AM
Having just seen the Batista I've been thinking that AW will come out with many more siege weapons and possibly mobile siege conjurations.
This page is also for discussing uses for the siege weapon already out or known to come. (I wouldn't be surprised if the Batista came out in SvP.)
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Schwenkgott on August 29, 2014, 10:07:49 AM
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/JurneeMC/TV%20and%20Movie%20Autos%20for%20sale/Personal%20Collection/AngelBatista-DexterCostumeCard.jpg)

This one?

(http://www.jeffjoslinmma.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/batista.jpg)

Or that one? :D
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Marhem on August 29, 2014, 10:19:21 AM
this one
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Death-from-above on August 29, 2014, 10:27:03 AM
All 3 are equally lethal  ;D
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Marhem on August 29, 2014, 10:41:07 AM
My speculation is:
Arrow cart: 4 dice 7+ bleed unavoidable 1-2 AoE inderect, load, a friendly creature may use a full action to push the Arrow cart to an adjacent zone , mid mana, low armor, low life may not be place in a zone with another arrow cart
Catapult: 7 dice unavoidable 2-3, load high mana, mid armor, mid life zone exclusive
Ram: 2 dice + 6 dice against conjurations unavoidable melee,  a friendly creature may use a full action to push the ram to an adjacent zone, low mana, high armor, low life may not be placed in a zone with another ram
Raised platform: Zone exclusive epic, you may place one siege weapon on this conjuration, the siege weapon gains inderect and increases maximum range by 1
Siege yard: epic zone exclusive, allows you to place three siege weapons in this zone regardless to restrictions.

Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: isel on August 29, 2014, 07:03:41 PM
My especulation is that if ballista is realeased ( i pray not) would be legendary and epic, at least. If ballista comes as is now, the game end. First turn, two ballistas, second turn, 3 ballista and fireballs....a very boring game, would win the player that had initiative first turn.

If A. W realese a Machine siege, would be very carefull with his attack range, and dice of damage.

I test ballista with my friends and it was very boring, both players with 4 ballistas in book. No spawnpoints lives more than 2 turns and thatīs constructions are esentialls in this game, and battle forge itīs destroyed too, remember piercing 3 of ballista.


Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Marhem on August 29, 2014, 07:42:13 PM
Fog bank right in front, or use the assorted counter cards exp. earthquake
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: reddawn on August 30, 2014, 09:48:14 PM
I really want an old-timey cannon.  It could use Fuse counters, with more Fuse counters giving it more dice for its attack.  Your opponent could reset or reduce the Fuse counters with a Water attack spell.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: V10lentray on August 31, 2014, 02:43:05 PM
After speaking to some play-testers, Ballista may never be released. It's very powerful and they can not agree on how to fix it.

There are a few other promos which names are slipping me are in a similar situation.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: wtcannonjr on August 31, 2014, 07:05:54 PM
After speaking to some play-testers, Ballista may never be released. It's very powerful and they can not agree on how to fix it.

There are a few other promos which names are slipping me are in a similar situation.

Have they tried decreasing the firing rate? i.e. instead of firing every other turn, just require it to have 3 load tokens to fire.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Schwenkgott on September 01, 2014, 01:54:19 AM
The damage or the rate of fire is not the problem, it's the hitpoints and the armor. With 6Hp and armor 1 for the same mana cost, the ballista would be killable by a normal melee attack and a fireblast (mana investment 5) or a hurl boulder in die quickcast phase before it can fire (mana investment 8).
No one wants to throw spells at something cheap/heavy armored like the ballista is now and make a big mana loss.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: jacksmack on September 01, 2014, 03:00:26 AM
The damage or the rate of fire is not the problem, it's the hitpoints and the armor. With 6Hp and armor 1 for the same mana cost, the ballista would be killable by a normal melee attack and a fireblast (mana investment 5) or a hurl boulder in die quickcast phase before it can fire (mana investment 8).
No one wants to throw spells at something cheap/heavy armored like the ballista is now and make a big mana loss.

Erh... The damage is obviously part of the problem just as the fire rate is. Its a matter of balance.
If it required 4 load tokens (and came into play with3) and had a 3 dice +1 pierce attack then this spell would worthless for its cost with same toughness (hp/armor).


A shot in the dark of balancing this beauty would be something like:
4 dice attack with 1 pierce Or 3 dice with 3 pierce.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Schwenkgott on September 01, 2014, 03:49:21 AM
Where is the problem with 2,5 dice per round, that can be evaded by just moving in the same zone?

The damage is really not the problem. It's the fact that the ballista is durable and cannot be destroyed easily.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: jacksmack on September 01, 2014, 05:55:32 AM
Where is the problem with 2,5 dice per round, that can be evaded by just moving in the same zone?

The damage is really not the problem. It's the fact that the ballista is durable and cannot be destroyed easily.

What kind of logic is that?

Disregarding mana cost, damage, mechanics and only focus on resilience?

So a creature with a 20 dice quick attack with 1 hp is balanced because its easy to kill?
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Schwenkgott on September 01, 2014, 06:09:31 AM
All i'm saying is that the ballista is not unbalanced because it attacks with 5 dice piercing 3 every 2 rounds, but because of it's resilince that can most of the time garantee to absorb the damage from several rounds and actions.
To fix and release the ballista, the hitpoints and armor should be decreased, not the damage output, that is btw. not that strong.
If it would be a risk manawise to play the ballista (only one shot for 8 mana is not a good ratio at all), then it would be perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: jacksmack on September 01, 2014, 06:18:59 AM
The ballista is a very strong card because of:

The range you can cast it.
Its a quickcast spell
Its mana cost.
Its attack: 1-2 zones, 5 dice with 3 pierce.
Its ready marker which can be used to stack damage with other ready markers (ballistas, wizard tower etc.) AND an action marker AND a quickcast marker.
Its resilience (HP and Armor +/- other traits (flame +2)).
It starts with 1 load token.
No unique / legendary / epic

Its a complicated package to balance, and while its certainly possible to completely gimp 1 parameter its not neccesarily the best way to finetune this spell.

Unless you wish to put it at something riddicilous like 2hp and 0 armor im certain more than just resilience needs to be looked at.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: isel on September 01, 2014, 09:05:31 AM
I make ballista:
Cost 8:
Traits: Z. exclusive, Legendary, flame+2
Attack: 4 D Piercing 1 Bleed +6

i do Legendary to avoid 2 ballistas first turn or 4, (both players).

Any construction that have a ranged attack would be very limited to avoid a boring game.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: sIKE on September 01, 2014, 11:05:10 AM
I have had two Ballista's killed by a combination on Fireballs and Creature Attacks before they could ever fire. I learned quickly that Fog Banks buy enough time for the opposing mage to bring the needed resources to destroy them. Now drop them unexpectedly and they can be quite useful, but within a couple of games the meta evolves quickly and they become a mana sink.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Marhem on September 01, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
Two things:
1. Akiros hammer help greatly
2. Here is a cool siege weapon
Large repeating crossbow:
Adds another five dice to the attack per load token max 5
Epic legendary unique z exclusive large mana cost
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Wildhorn on September 01, 2014, 06:01:25 PM
Just add Unique to balista. It is when there is 2-4 on the field that they become out of control.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Marhem on September 01, 2014, 06:12:54 PM
or make the range 1-1
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: sIKE on September 01, 2014, 06:26:52 PM
or make the range 1-1
Makes it quite useless.

Just add Unique to balista. It is when there is 2-4 on the field that they become out of control.
Makes it quite useless.

Quote
Remove Conjurations from the Target Bar
Makes it a bit less useful.

I have made a couple of my own suggestions that I am not free to discuss.....
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: jacksmack on September 02, 2014, 01:32:54 AM
I would vote for making i War mage only and unique.

Making it unique would obviously NOT make it useless.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Marhem on September 02, 2014, 05:51:23 AM
Make new trait to were you can have 2 on the board: dinique
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Laddinfance on September 02, 2014, 08:35:05 AM
Make new trait to were you can have 2 on the board: dinique

Binary?
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Wildhorn on September 02, 2014, 08:41:07 AM
Make new trait to were you can have 2 on the board: dinique

Binary?

I like the idea. It also open the door for new design where 1 is not enough but 3+ is too powerful.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: sIKE on September 02, 2014, 08:54:44 AM
I would vote for making i War mage only and unique.

Making it unique would obviously NOT make it useless.
Play it yourself as Unique and see how well it works for you.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Laddinfance on September 02, 2014, 08:58:30 AM
I feel we're getting fixated on Ballista. Perhaps we should let it sit for now.
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: sIKE on September 02, 2014, 09:01:46 AM
I feel we're getting fixated on Ballista. Perhaps we should let it sit for now.
Don't we always :)
Title: Re: Siege weapon speculation
Post by: Wildhorn on September 02, 2014, 09:21:09 AM
I feel we're getting fixated on Ballista. Perhaps we should let it sit for now.
Don't we always :)

Ooooo, watch out for Combustion with that amount of burns. ;)