Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Sabrath_Kell on September 13, 2015, 12:04:44 AM

Title: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Sabrath_Kell on September 13, 2015, 12:04:44 AM
Need some Warlord wisdom from the forums:

If you had to play a Blood Wave Warlord (but you could draw from any Arena set, promo card, or Academy card) and you knew you were going to have to play a Wizard, what tricks/cards/styles of play would you consider as best contenders?
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: sIKE on September 13, 2015, 12:31:56 AM
Ballista, Force Hammer, enfeeble, Harshforge Plate & Monolith just off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: DaveW on September 13, 2015, 06:26:15 AM
Conquer to get rid of Wizard Towers, and absolutely Harshforge Plate.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Sabrath_Kell on September 13, 2015, 11:23:09 PM
Do you think any of the new Academy cards stand out to be put into an Arena Warlord's deck?
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Biblofilter on September 14, 2015, 12:12:49 AM
Do you think any of the new Academy cards stand out to be put into an Arena Warlord's deck?

No!

You might find a few spells useful, but there nothing you really need.

Armor Ward, Divine Reversal, Mend, Dodge and some of the new minor nature buffs and some new equipment.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: sIKE on September 14, 2015, 12:15:07 AM
Maybe Gator Toughness, Iguana Regrowth, or Wychwood Ironvine

If you feel like being Bruce Dickinson and putting your pants one leg at a time, maybe some Leather Greaves.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Boocheck on September 14, 2015, 03:14:37 AM
My first card would be Rolling Fog. Then probably Conquer. Also, if it would be Lightning or Fire wizard, Wall of Earth messing with LoS of Wizard's Tower is also nice to have.

If only Earthquake deals critical damage to conjurations or there were more Seismic cards...

With creatures, i would probably try Bloodcrag Minotaur with Lion Savagery to bring that Tower down :)
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Biblofilter on September 14, 2015, 06:31:02 AM
4 Orc Butcherīs with Critical Strike or Piercing Strike should take care of Wizard Tower.

You could use one Orc Butcher and Buff him up to 7 dice and Piercing+3, but two + Orcīs are probably better.

Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Boocheck on September 14, 2015, 07:21:40 AM
Yeah, but that is lot of actions spend to do that  :)

I need to build "Butcher Squad Book" and try it against wiz :)
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: ringkichard on September 14, 2015, 07:51:56 AM
Dwarves are the natural enemies of Wizards.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Boocheck on September 14, 2015, 08:58:32 AM
If Trokoth will face Wizard in Trial by Combat, which my bet is that it will be Laddifance, Dwarfs are alergic to lightning which is Laddifances daily bread. Was it sarcasm or i just missed something? :)
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Intangible0 on September 14, 2015, 11:18:30 AM
Arcane Ward might be useful at some point, You may just want to run it because you can since it's novice. Look them in the face and say "See, I can cast arcane stuff too!"

Gator Toughness, Wolf Fury (Especially on Guard Dog), Giant Size (for Goblins), Iguana Regrowth, Panther Stealth, Wychwood Ironvine, Tangleroot (against hydras and jellies). All of the buffs there can be super useful if you're running Orc Butchers because they only have one armor, You can increase their survival chances by maybe two attacks depending on circumstances.

Satyr Guff is a soldier... Don't think I'd pay 6 SBP's for him though.

Slaknir is an obvious choice if you have Domination.

In promos, besides Ballista, I'd say Critical strike and/or Gravikor for conjurations.

Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on September 14, 2015, 12:11:00 PM
Well Akiro's Hammer will destroy a Wizard Tower fast without the worry of Intercepting Gargoyles getting in the way. A lot of Wizards like to splash Acid Balls around so Brace Yourself would give you a steady supply of armor. Divine Reversal was mentioned and I think it's a very solid card. Gravikor is a smart play, it'll put Gargoyle Sentires and the stupid raven familiar on the ground so you can deal with them fairly easy.

Pound for pound you have better creatures at your disposal and you can swarm a lot better so play on those angles. Be prepared to Dissolve Suppression cloaks and destroy mana draining conjurations. Maybe have some incorporeal somewhere in the book for Mana Siphon.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Biblofilter on September 14, 2015, 12:39:50 PM
Sniper Shot + Hurl Rock can be pretty fun vs ravens/pixies :)
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: ringkichard on September 14, 2015, 01:26:44 PM
No one has mentioned Altar of Carnage, so I will. It's potentially stupid-efficient mana generation, but it's very much a "win more" sort of card. Which is exactly what you need if you can get an early lead against Wizard and just need to put the game away before all those mana crystals and Gate to Voltari really pay off.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Borg on September 19, 2015, 06:25:22 AM
No one has mentioned Altar of Carnage, so I will. It's potentially stupid-efficient mana generation, but it's very much a "win more" sort of card. Which is exactly what you need if you can get an early lead against Wizard and just need to put the game away before all those mana crystals and Gate to Voltari really pay off.

I've always considered Altar of Carnage as a "win more" card as well and therefore dismissed it but you make a good point there. It's an excellent card to hold and prolong an advantage, so it's definitely worth reevaluating.

Too bad however the mana only goes onto a Spawnpoint or Familiar and not onto your Mage though.
If I go really aggressive I let the Mage summon the creatures and don't bother with a spawnpoint.
So, there's another negative for AoC.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Borg on September 19, 2015, 06:37:16 AM
I need to build "Butcher Squad Book"

I've been trying to accomplish that for over a month now and I can't get it over the hill.
Main stumbling block : Guardian Angels, their Flying, Defense, Intercept, Aegis 1 , Armor +1 and Healing ability is just too much to deal with all at the same time, not to mention if those Angels are enchanted with Bear Strength and Lion Savagery...
But maybe this discussion needs another thread.
Sorry for the small hijack.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: sdougla2 on September 19, 2015, 04:03:37 PM
My main problem with Altar of Carnage is that it loses most of it's value if your Barracks is destroyed, and in the type of strategy where I would even consider playing Altar of Carnage, I don't want to make my Barracks a more tempting target than it already is.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: ringkichard on September 19, 2015, 10:46:40 PM
I had a long post written up, but lost it.

1. (19) Barracks (7) Garrison Post (3)
2. (12 + 2) Altar of the Iron Guard (8+2) Meditation Amulet (4+2)
3. (13+4) Deploy Panzergard with Guard Marker (6) Meditate (9) SOMETHING OPTIONAL

RANGED OPTION. Spam Bloodwave Greatbows (with Panzergarde as needed) which are given piercing (and kept alive) by Fortified Position, Release Volley, Standard Bearer, Brace Yourself, etc. Archer's Watchtower and Wall of Earth/Stone/Steel can be fun. Use Force Wave, Cascading Force Wave, and Windstorm to manage positioning of your units and your opponent's. Use Wall of Pikes to prevent your opponent from playing walls to block LoS (and to make charging your archers less appealing). Eagle Claw Boots and Astral Anchor to keep your Warlord in a safe location. Mangler Caltrops or Poison Gas Cloud to slow opponent's movement. Suppression Orb against swarms and fast creatures. Hidden Tunnels to move archers efficiently between outposts. Ballista and Akiro's Hammer for Spike Damage and anti-Wizard's Tower. Harshforge Plate and Blur against opposing magic. With Bloodwave Greatbow you can skip the usual Acid Balls, but be sure to bring Hurl Boulder or Hurl Rock potentially with Hawkeye and/or Gloves of Skill. Ranged defenses are good against those things, so bring some. Elemental Wand at your discretion. Probably only one Teleport for emergencies, but bring several dissolves, and as many dispels as you can afford. Don't forget to Meditate when you can.

MELEE OPTION Build an Altar of Carnage. Spam Dwarf Kriegshammer, Orc Butcher, and More Panzergarde. As long as you're hitting something you are winning, even against Gate to Voltari. If you're having trouble spending all the mana, either play a Battle Forge for more actions, Gurmash for more battle orders, or just a blizzard of Boulders and Rocks.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Kaarin on September 20, 2015, 02:36:48 PM
All strategies posted here seem to be aimed against economy-type Wizard. In my group You usually need to have armor after first QC phase of 2nd round when playing against Wizard.
Minimum amount of dice to KO Wizard is 16. That's two Hurl Boulder with Hawkeye on. Try to get advantage of Akiro's Favor and Gloves of skill. With correct timing You can cast 4 Hurl Boulder in a row. I don't know better strategy for Bloodwave Warlord against Wizard, because every strategy I came up with for him turned out to be better suited for Anvil Throne Warlord or Earth Wizard (other than charging veteran golems or Greatbow Volley).

Sniper Shot + Hurl Rock can be pretty fun vs ravens/pixies :)
I think that taunting them with Thorg is more fun. He can deal with guardians too.

RANGED OPTION.
Why aren't You building Altar of Carnage in ranged option?

Also, if it would be Lightning or Fire wizard, Wall of Earth messing with LoS of Wizard's Tower is also nice to have.
Problem is that Wizard is very likely to have a hydro attack or two.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: ringkichard on September 20, 2015, 03:32:04 PM
Why aren't You building Altar of Carnage in ranged option?

You certainly can! That was one part of the longer post I wrote then lost. It's a little harder to fit them in because of the higher cost of the Greatbows, but in the opening above they'll work fine.

You also make a great point about BOULDER BOULDER BOULDER BOULDER Wizards, and yeah, this opening is more geared toward fighting Weighted Wizard, which is happy to play 4 mana crystals before the Wizard's Tower comes into play. I don't get the Panzergarde down until the deployment phase of Round 3, which is pushing it, even if it does come into play ready to Intercept because of Altar of the Iron Guard.

If the Wizard does something like Hawkeye + Gloves of Skill on round 1, it's possible they're not even going to bother with Wizard's Tower. If that's the case, Wall of Earth is a great help, and maybe the Garrison Post should be Archer's Watchtower. Otherwise this opening relies on Defend to put repeated guard markers on the Dwarves, and on Brace Yourself to soak early hits. Gurmash could do those things, but I'd have to test to see how it works out. Those are the best uses for Gurmash, but my experience with him is a little sub-optimal.

Harshforge Plate is great, but too expensive against attack spam. Against a Wizard who goes right for the throat, I'd say skip the Meditation Amulet and get some Armor (or Brace Yourself) and a Block instead. Or, if the situation is right, use the sekret tek below....
--

I've been sitting on this info since I noticed it a week ago, and it's burning a hole in my spellbook: there's a *really* nasty way to use Blur against Wizard's Tower. Read them both carefully is all I'll say.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Borg on September 20, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
I've been sitting on this info since I noticed it a week ago, and it's burning a hole in my spellbook: there's a *really* nasty way to use Blur against Wizard's Tower. Read them both carefully is all I'll say.

You CAN reveal Blur and become Obscured as a response to a Wizard Tower's spell and thus cause the spell to fizzle because the Tower's spell casting does not happen during an action phase or quickcast phase.

Great catch.

As a side note : I do not like MW being swamped with promo cards which are unavailable to so many people ( including myself ) It feels like they're creating a different playing field.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: ringkichard on September 20, 2015, 04:18:00 PM
Promos aren't legal in meatspace tournaments, and are freely available on OCTGN if the organizer is including them. In casual play anyone who uses them when the opponent can't do likewise is a jerk.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: jacksmack on September 21, 2015, 09:49:49 AM
I wonder if this is the intention with Blur.

Blur can also  attacks from ballista and temple of light if im not mistaken (,when using range 2).
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: ringkichard on September 21, 2015, 04:13:53 PM
I wonder if this is the intention with Blur.

I can't say one way or another, but part of the fun of emergent systems like Mage Wars is the opportunity to find stuff like this. :)
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: jacksmack on September 22, 2015, 02:55:48 PM
You can even use blur on the opponenet if he is 2 zones away from his battleforge.

In that case you could possible cancel an expensive equipment like Galvitar, Staff of Light, Sectarus.

And its easy to get remove from him - just 1 damage from an attack and choose not to pay.
Title: Re: Warlord vs. Wizard
Post by: Coshade on September 22, 2015, 06:21:51 PM
You can even use blur on the opponenet if he is 2 zones away from his battleforge.

In that case you could possible cancel an expensive equipment like Galvitar, Staff of Light, Sectarus.

And its easy to get remove from him - just 1 damage from an attack and choose not to pay.

Oh my :D