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Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jedah on March 31, 2016, 12:53:10 PM

Title: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Jedah on March 31, 2016, 12:53:10 PM
Hi all,

MW is my favorite board game by far. But lately i've been getting the idea Arcane wonders focus is on Academy for the last 2 years.

I'm yearning for a new expansion. Am I the only one here? Can't seem to find any news or topics about it.

what happened to the illiusionist/shaman etc?  :'(

Best Regards,

Jedah
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Puddnhead on March 31, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
Paladin vs Siren is in development right now.  I'm hopeful that it delivers some awesome new stuff.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: iNano78 on March 31, 2016, 01:10:33 PM
Paladin vs Siren is in development right now.  I'm hopeful that it delivers some awesome new stuff.

And "Lost Grimoire v1" is due out around May.  And Battlegrounds Domination came out last year.

I'm definitely looking forward to Paladin vs Siren, alt-Wizard vs alt-Forcemaster, and whatever the next Battlegrounds expansion brings (Archmage?).
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: gw on March 31, 2016, 01:14:17 PM
Personally, I consider Academy as small expansions / boosters for Arena - so my impression is quite contrary to yours  8)
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: iNano78 on March 31, 2016, 01:16:26 PM
Personally, I consider Academy as small expansions / boosters for Arena - so my impression is quite contrary to yours  8)

Yep, just came back to edit my above post.  We're using a lot of Academy spells in Arena (Johktari Beastmaster has replaced almost everything in her book, from weapon, cloak, belt, swarmy creatures, Slavorg and Rajah, ...).  And I'm even playing Mana Worms with my Wizard lately.  Can't wait for all the cheap holy creatures that Academy: Priestess will bring to Arena.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Puddnhead on March 31, 2016, 02:08:09 PM
Personally, I consider Academy as small expansions / boosters for Arena - so my impression is quite contrary to yours  8)

Yep, just came back to edit my above post.  We're using a lot of Academy spells in Arena (Johktari Beastmaster has replaced almost everything in her book, from weapon, cloak, belt, swarmy creatures, Slavorg and Rajah, ...).  And I'm even playing Mana Worms with my Wizard lately.  Can't wait for all the cheap holy creatures that Academy: Priestess will bring to Arena.

I am waiting with great anticipation as well.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Crow on March 31, 2016, 02:53:19 PM
I find the Academy spells really useful in Arena, and we love Domination.

The release rate is pretty normal for board games.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: mager on March 31, 2016, 04:49:33 PM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes. It lost a lot of momentum wrt committed players. More energy and money should have been spent on new mages, and rapidly expanding the player base with events and tournaments.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: rant on March 31, 2016, 05:30:48 PM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes. It lost a lot of momentum wrt committed players. More energy and money should have been spent on new mages, and rapidly expanding the player base with events and tournaments.

Maybe, maybe not. I know that I'm along for the ride. It's been a lot fun for me to see this game change gears, but still retain its world.  Each expansion has changed the game and made it more rewarding. The release cycle might be long for some (and it bothered me when I first got into the game) but it's allowed me to check out other great board games while I wait for the next expansion. There's already enough released currently that you could play an infinite amount of ways. So I'll eagerily await just to see how great this game is going to become. JMO
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Crow on March 31, 2016, 09:19:27 PM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes. It lost a lot of momentum wrt committed players. More energy and money should have been spent on new mages, and rapidly expanding the player base with events and tournaments.

I have to disagree, especially about Battlegrounds.  It's the main reason the game sees so much play in my group, as we are almost always 3 or 4 players.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on April 01, 2016, 12:10:20 AM
I just judged a classic Mage Wars tournament in Charlotte NC yesterday. So no it's not dead, going pretty strong here anyway.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: exid on April 01, 2016, 12:42:29 AM
Hi all,

MW is my favorite board game by far. But lately i've been getting the idea Arcane wonders focus is on Academy for the last 2 years.

I'm yearning for a new expansion. Am I the only one here? Can't seem to find any news or topics about it.

what happened to the illiusionist/shaman etc?  :'(

Best Regards,

Jedah

+1
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Jedah on April 01, 2016, 01:54:15 AM
Thank you all for your replies!

I'm really glad to hear their working on a new expansion. I didn't pay much attention to Academy because I like the epicness of the full arena and length and depth of the original game. So when I read it was going to be a sort of "light version" of the game I kind of ignored it and waited for new arena expansions.

What I didn't know is that you can use the cards from Academy in Arena, which sounds very relevent to interest, however, I'm using the spellbook builder/app for a while now, and there is no trace of these cards.

Don't these cards unbalance the game as it is? I like the game so much that it would be a shame if the intire game changed balance because of these cards.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: gw on April 01, 2016, 02:00:00 AM
I have to admit I really like the slow release pace when it comes to Arena.
Having lots of releases feels discouraging to me because everything changes so quickly - probably one of the main things I lost interest into MTG years ago when they introduced the Type2 format and sped up their releases.

In my opinion a slow pace is good for the game but I agree that most of the effort should be put into organizing a tournament structure etc.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: jhaelen on April 01, 2016, 02:05:31 AM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes.
Not really. The idea behind these new game modes was/is solid. Unfortunately, for my taste Academy is too different from Arena to serve as a useful introduction. I still have high hopes for Battlegrounds to replace the standard Arena mode, though.

Simply churning out mage after mage without changing anything about the basic (Arena) rules would have done nothing to grow the player base. Very high, and continously increasing complexity due to a fast growing glossary and game length prevent the game from becoming more popular.

I'm not sure if the situation we're currently in is much better, but it was worth a try.

The problem is that the diversification has lead to resources being spread too thin. Arcane Wonders is too small a company to churn out new products for three (closely-related, but still) different game lines at the same time with the same speed as for a single game line.
And commercially it wouldn't have been a good idea to do so, either. Mage Wars is, and probably always will be too niche.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on April 01, 2016, 04:49:33 AM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes.
Not really. The idea behind these new game modes was/is solid. Unfortunately, for my taste Academy is too different from Arena to serve as a useful introduction. I still have high hopes for Battlegrounds to replace the standard Arena mode, though.

Simply churning out mage after mage without changing anything about the basic (Arena) rules would have done nothing to grow the player base. Very high, and continously increasing complexity due to a fast growing glossary and game length prevent the game from becoming more popular.

I'm not sure if the situation we're currently in is much better, but it was worth a try.

The problem is that the diversification has lead to resources being spread too thin. Arcane Wonders is too small a company to churn out new products for three (closely-related, but still) different game lines at the same time with the same speed as for a single game line.
And commercially it wouldn't have been a good idea to do so, either. Mage Wars is, and probably always will be too niche.


Yeah. To be honest I wonder if it might have been different if Academy had come out first. Most people who play card games don't want to spend two or three hours in a single game, and there are a lot more card game players than minis players. And Arcane Wonders hasn't done enough to dispel the myth that Academy is just Arena-lite. In fact they've even encouraged that misconception if not outright started it.

So yeah. It's been four years since they first released Arena, and almost a year since the prerelease of Academy. The playerbase for Arena is still pretty small (generally there's only about four players online at any given time) and the Academy playerbase is almost non-existent. I'm very disappointed.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Bjorne on April 01, 2016, 06:11:11 AM
I definitely think that it is turning out to be a mistake. The new cards (and game mode) in Battlegrounds and Academy haven't made enough to shake up the meta in my opinion. Also, the fact that neither the spellbook builder, nor the companion app have been updated with the new cards, indicates that the company has too much to work on to keep up. Things like this + more focus on events and tournaments should have been a priority in my opinion.

It is nice with a little diversity, sure, but it definitely feels like it has been at the expense of the core game up until now.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: DevilsVendetta on April 01, 2016, 08:06:46 AM
To me, Battlegrounds/Domination - good as it allows the same basic game with varied winning conditions and different set-ups to allow for more replayability.

Academy - bad as it just splinters the core players for the most BUT I love the cards use in Arena so if there was a way to have incorporated the cards into something similar to Battlegrounds/Domination instead of what is basically an entirely new game.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: iNano78 on April 01, 2016, 08:55:03 AM
Yep, Domination is my personal favourite game mode, and is our go-to format when we have an odd number of players. We've enjoyed discovering the power of Altar of Skulls, Akiro's Hammer, Elusive/Flying creatures, zone-effect spells, and creature swarms - cards and archetypes that aren't as strong in regular Arena.

Arena is still generally our 2-player mode of choice.

If you ignore the intent of the product (eg toss out the rule book) and just look at the cards, Academy is a pretty good expansion for Arena and Domination. I think the next 2 Academy Mage expansions will do a lot to make the Priest/Priestess and Warlocks more competitive in Domination, for instance. Right now they struggle to keep up with the board presence that the (Bloodwave) Warlord, (Straywood) Beastmaster, Druid and Necromancer are able to achieve. The Forcemaster and Wizard are kind of left out of the Donination mode (at least for multiplayer) - but that's OK, as they're certainly competitive in regular Arena.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: farkas1 on April 01, 2016, 09:00:14 AM
I was a little worried too about the decision to make both academy and domination and not offering a solid arena expansion with two new mages prior to their release.   Also the timing of academy being released was not perfect either with the new marvel VS  system and Ashes rise of the Phoenix born both offering dueling card games.  They were released last year too that flooded the market even more with dueling card games.   


However after using the academy cards in arena I'm very impressed with the options of a Wizard and the beast master.   I think academy has some very solid cards that I will include in many of my books.  Especially books revolving around swarms and small creatures.  I look foward to the other acadamey releases as well as any thing Arcane wonders produces.  Mage Wars is such a great game!
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Crow on April 01, 2016, 12:17:42 PM
The Forcemaster and Wizard are kind of left out of the Donination mode (at least for multiplayer) - but that's OK, as they're certainly competitive in regular Arena.

They are at a bit of a disadvantage in everybody-for-themselves multiplayer (especially the Wizard, IMO), but they actually make "okay" teammates.  As long as your partner can secure the V'tarr, they are decent at disrupting the opposing team.

1-on-1 Domination, I think the Wizard is even worse, but the Forcemaster is pretty good (IMO).
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: kniknax on April 02, 2016, 01:37:55 AM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes. It lost a lot of momentum wrt committed players. More energy and money should have been spent on new mages, and rapidly expanding the player base with events and tournaments.

I'm one of those players who tried Academy as it was cheap and supposed to be quick to play, loved it, and have now bought Arena, and one of the expansions, and am getting all my friends to try it... So was it a business mistake? Only if by mistake you mean "brought in new customers and acted as a gateway game to our main product line"
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: exid on April 02, 2016, 02:37:45 AM
that's the business strategy:
academy and domination brings new player and gives new sensations to players who needed some, and for the arena junkies it's to late to give up: we'll wait years for a paladin's sock or a syren's fishbone!
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Ravepig on April 02, 2016, 01:50:49 PM
I'm one of those players who tried Academy as it was cheap and supposed to be quick to play, loved it, and have now bought Arena, and one of the expansions, and am getting all my friends to try it... So was it a business mistake? Only if by mistake you mean "brought in new customers and acted as a gateway game to our main product line"



I posted this in another thread, but you're exactly right. I introduced Academy to three players now, and after a few games, all three basically asked, "So, when are we playing the big version." Academy does exactly what it is intended to do: introduce new players to Arena. Not to mention, it's still a fun, quick version if you don't have enough time to play a full game of Arena.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Werekingdom on April 02, 2016, 08:31:18 PM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes. It lost a lot of momentum wrt committed players. More energy and money should have been spent on new mages, and rapidly expanding the player base with events and tournaments.

I have to disagree, especially about Battlegrounds.  It's the main reason the game sees so much play in my group, as we are almost always 3 or 4 players.

I don't know about the Battleground, it is nice for 3 players, but for 4 to 8 players I prefer to have 2 to 3 reg mage wars boards side by side.  And yes, we do play 8 player mage wars.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Kelanen on April 05, 2016, 06:01:01 PM
I think the focus on Acedemy and Battlegrounds were business mistakes. It lost a lot of momentum wrt committed players. More energy and money should have been spent on new mages, and rapidly expanding the player base with events and tournaments.

Agreed - utter waste of time.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Biblofilter on April 05, 2016, 11:44:36 PM
And yes, we do play 8 player mage wars.

pics?  :P
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Mystery on April 06, 2016, 03:14:05 AM
The Forcemaster and Wizard are kind of left out of the Donination mode (at least for multiplayer) - but that's OK, as they're certainly competitive in regular Arena.

They are at a bit of a disadvantage in everybody-for-themselves multiplayer (especially the Wizard, IMO), but they actually make "okay" teammates.  As long as your partner can secure the V'tarr, they are decent at disrupting the opposing team.

1-on-1 Domination, I think the Wizard is even worse, but the Forcemaster is pretty good (IMO).

I thought wizard has cheap teleport spellpoint wise? He has a wizardstower, and his spawnpoint is together with lair the top one. Gremlins have a two position teleport, give them panther stealth and the steal da orbs. For me in domination the mages full action is extremly valuable (and so are things that give or take full actions for a quick action (BM quick summoning), mind control, rise again, sleep, or doublestrikes/sweeping), also positioning is really nice, wizards tower lets you not lose and action.... Its mainly based on 1v1, and as wizard there is hardly a chance for your ,oponent to not give you an orb activation and galaxus turn 2.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Beldin on April 06, 2016, 03:20:43 PM

Simply churning out mage after mage without changing anything about the basic (Arena) rules would have done nothing to grow the player base. Very high, and continously increasing complexity due to a fast growing glossary and game length prevent the game from becoming more popular.

I have to disagree with you here. This is not the first "persona" based card game to hit the market. Both Highlander TCG and Raw Deal CCG came before Mage Wars and both used a  a face card and/or abilities card.

These games churned out multiple expansions with multiple persona's coming out in each expansion. This drastically changed the meta game from expansion to expansion with the power balance shifting to different decks. This didnt lead to a more complex game as the person who builds that particular deck/book will only focus on that character and the allowed cards in that book. The game length was the same because the characters were balanced in the existing games and thus the game stayed the same length. As for player base the national squared circle tournaments filled a good sized hall. There were regular tournaments over various venues across and people did not stop playing just because a new expansion came out nor did it discourage them to invite their friends. If anything the addition of types of new play style and mechanics peeked the curiosity of players who would not of tried the game before.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Kelanen on April 06, 2016, 05:03:20 PM
Simply churning out mage after mage without changing anything about the basic (Arena) rules would have done nothing to grow the player base. Very high, and continously increasing complexity due to a fast growing glossary and game length prevent the game from becoming more popular.

I disagree, it's precisely and all they needed to do. What has happened has fractured the player-base and probably done irreparable harm. It *might* have helped AW bottomline-wise in the short term, although I doubt it. It's certainly hurt Arena.
Title: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on April 06, 2016, 07:19:08 PM
I think it might have been more of a calculated risk sort of thing. Prior to the releases of Domination and Academy, both of the scenarios you guys are describing could have been plausible (at least as far as any of us lay-people know). If Mager is right that they have fractured Arena's player base and lost too much momentum as a result, then one would expect to see a decrease in Mage Wars sales over the long term.

If jhaelen is right, then one would expect an increase over the long term instead.


In both scenarios the playerbase is still split, but in one scenario the playerbase grows large enough over time that the split doesn't matter, and in the other the playerbase for each particular Mage Wars game/format is smaller from then on and never recovers, or worse dwindles away almost completely from the loss of momentum.

So which is it? Well, that probably depends on how long it would take for overall Mage Wars sales to start going down after the releases of Domination and Academy, according to Mager's theory. If after that amount of time has passed Mage Wars sales are not decreasing, then he's probably wrong, but if they are decreasing after that point then he's probably right.

Although take everything I just said with a grain of salt since I'm not a business person nor an economist.

Would also like to point out that while the success of Arena is almost certainly well-correlated with the success of Arcane Wonders (it is their flagship game after all), the success of Arena isn't necessarily the same exact thing as the success of Arcane Wonders. Fracturing the Arena playerbase into Academy, Standard Arena and Battlegrounds: Domination might not harm the company if the total amount of profit they're getting from all three Mage Wars games/formats isn't any less than what they were getting just from Arena beforehand. Just saying.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: jhaelen on April 07, 2016, 02:14:33 AM
I have to disagree with you here. This is not the first "persona" based card game to hit the market. Both Highlander TCG and Raw Deal CCG came before Mage Wars and both used a  a face card and/or abilities card.
Does it matter that I never heard of either game?
This didnt lead to a more complex game as the person who builds that particular deck/book will only focus on that character and the allowed cards in that book.
You still need to define the interaction between cards from different decks, leading to an exponential growth of new rules.

And if you're trying to tell me that when building a deck you needn't worry about cards that aren't in your deck, you've got to be kidding.
Title: Re: New Expansion ? Is original MW dead?!
Post by: Beldin on April 08, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
And if you're trying to tell me that when building a deck you needn't worry about cards that aren't in your deck, you've got to be kidding.

Well yes to a degree. Metagame wins out here, I never worry about all of the cards in the current set just the good ones. Out of the entire set there is a toolbox of cards that every mage will use or atleast consider. For example a Gate of Voltari has more play than a Gate to Hell. I will always take in school mana source over out of school ones, same with chest armour. This is a game of building an efficient engine after all that also has a toolbox to deal with the greatest threats.