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Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Laddinfance on May 11, 2016, 02:59:25 PM

Title: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 11, 2016, 02:59:25 PM
This thread is going to contain links to all the spoilers for PVS.

5/11/2016
Temple High Guard (and surprise) (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoilier-temple-high-guard)

5/18/2016
From the Banks of Lake Michigan (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-from-the-banks-of-lake-michigan)

5/23/2016
Luminous Blast (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-luminous-blast)

5/27/2016
The Runner Up (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-the-runner-up)

5/30/2016
Terra Incognito (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-terra-incognito)

6/1/2016
Name that Tune! (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-name-that-tune)

6/3/2016
Voice of the Sea (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-voice-of-the-sea)

6/7/2016
Knight of the Red Helm (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-knight-of-the-red-helm)

6/13/2016
You're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat... (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-youre-gonna-need-a-bigger-boat)

6/23/2016
Time for a Little Piracy (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-time-for-a-little-piracy)

6/29/2016
The Archangel's Temple (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-the-archangels-temple)

7/4/2016
Independence Day (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-independence-day)

7/6/2016
A Call to Arms! (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-call-to-arms)

7/8/2016
A Holy Arsenal (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-holy-arsenal)

7/11/2015
Shoalsdeep Trident (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-shoalsdeep-trident)

7/14/2016
Smite (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-smite)

7/18/2016
The Unfriendly Skies (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-the-unfriendly-skies)

7/21/2016
Time and Tide (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-time-and-tide)

7/25/2016
Promos (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-promos)

7/29/2016
RELEASE THE KRAKEN! (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-release-the-kraken)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Anubis on May 11, 2016, 03:15:46 PM
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!!

Thank you for the preview!!!!

Not so exciting in terms of "new" creature, as familiars already exist, but having someone that protects you while you go to combat lets you expect the best for the paladin!



Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on May 11, 2016, 03:28:39 PM
 Very cool.  I'm wondering if the promo card is going to be released in the lost grimore expansion as well? Pretty sweet card.  I like the angel too....allowing some more aggressive holy builds!!!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 11, 2016, 03:32:31 PM
Could be hilarious to make her a Priest's Holy Avenger, then slap a Bear Strength, Wolf Fury and Lion Savagery on her and send her off to battle.  She'd be a lot more "judgmental," and could still heal and protect herself if that seemed wiser than going with melee attack.

(OK, probably not... but it would be hilarious!)

Here's a quick list of what she can cast from what's available on the spell book builder (e.g. no Arcane Ward, Mend, Group Mend, Dodge, or anything else from Academy or PvS):

CassielPriest/Priestess/Paladin
Conjuration1 x  Enchanter's WardstoneEnchantment1 x  Armor Ward1 x  Divine Intervention1 x  Divine Protection1 x  Healing Charm1 x  Sacred Ground1 x  V'Tar Force SentryEquipment1 x  Crown of Protection1 x  Sunfire Amulet1 x  Wand of HealingIncantation1 x  Group Heal1 x  Heal1 x  Lay Hands1 x  Minor Heal1 x  Purify1 x  Renewing Rain1 x  Resurrection1 x  V'Tarrian Healing Song
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on May 11, 2016, 03:53:25 PM
Could be hilarious to make her a Priest's Holy Avenger, then slap a Bear Strength, Wolf Fury and Lion Savagery on her and send her off to battle.  She'd be a lot more "judgmental," and could still heal and protect herself if that seemed wiser than going with melee attack.

(OK, probably not... but it would be hilarious!)

Here's a quick list of what she can cast from what's available on the spell book builder (e.g. no Arcane Ward, Mend, Group Mend, Dodge, or anything else from Academy or PvS):

CassielPriest/Priestess/Paladin
Conjuration1 x  Enchanter's WardstoneEnchantment1 x  Armor Ward1 x  Divine Intervention1 x  Divine Protection1 x  Healing Charm1 x  Sacred Ground1 x  V'Tar Force SentryEquipment1 x  Crown of Protection1 x  Sunfire Amulet1 x  Wand of HealingIncantation1 x  Group Heal1 x  Heal1 x  Lay Hands1 x  Minor Heal1 x  Purify1 x  Renewing Rain1 x  Resurrection1 x  V'Tarrian Healing Song

She also has a cleric subtype, so she can generate mana for temple of asyra also when not casting spells
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 11, 2016, 04:03:30 PM
Very cool.  I'm wondering if the promo card is going to be released in the lost grimore expansion as well? Pretty sweet card.  I like the angel too....allowing some more aggressive holy builds!!!

Check the card number. Temple High Guard is also in Paladin vs Siren. I wasn't faking about that.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on May 11, 2016, 04:04:56 PM
Wow! Just wow! My priest is salivating over that familiar! Finally holy has a mobile action generator!!!!! I dint even care if she can only cast protection and healing spells, i hunt down nullifies with healing charm and purify all the time. This little lady is going to make protection spells actually get played. Not wasting the actions to cast divine protection and healing charm makes get worth it alone. Not to mention i can cut down on enchantment transfusions cuz now I've got a caster that can cast over walls, divine intervention anyone? This also makes a radience pit more viable, being able to bank healing charms or have 3 casting actions in one round. I am so excited! A little miffed that one of my favorite mages (priest) had to wait this long to get a familiar and it came with the paladin (Dang rich holy warrior's get all the fun stuff) ! But that's piddly stuff.  Gimme gimme gimme! Like yesterday!

Edited for excitement: and she's lvl2! Second chance works on her! Tough nut to crack this girl!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on May 11, 2016, 04:44:11 PM
Next I need to see a holy attack spell that does at least 4 dice at range 2. Please tell me holy ball (hah!) Exists. It's everything else my priest needs! I might be able to resurrect an old, failed build if a 4 dice holy attack spell is forthcoming. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 11, 2016, 04:48:42 PM
Next I need to see a holy attack spell that does at least 4 dice at range 2. Please tell me holy ball (hah!) Exists. It's everything else my priest needs! I might be able to resurrect an old, failed build if a 4 dice holy attack spell is forthcoming. Fingers crossed!

There is a new holy attack spell, but it's not range 0-2. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on May 11, 2016, 05:12:10 PM
 :-\ ... does it at least do at least 4 dice? I can prolly work around it if it does. Its not sunfire burst is it? Le sigh (impotent holy resignation).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on May 11, 2016, 05:12:11 PM
Could be hilarious to make her a Priest's Holy Avenger, then slap a Bear Strength, Wolf Fury and Lion Savagery on her and send her off to battle.  She'd be a lot more "judgmental," and could still heal and protect herself if that seemed wiser than going with melee attack.

(OK, probably not... but it would be hilarious!)

Here's a quick list of what she can cast from what's available on the spell book builder (e.g. no Arcane Ward, Mend, Group Mend, Dodge, or anything else from Academy or PvS):

CassielPriest/Priestess/Paladin
Conjuration1 x  Enchanter's WardstoneEnchantment1 x  Armor Ward1 x  Divine Intervention1 x  Divine Protection1 x  Healing Charm1 x  Sacred Ground1 x  V'Tar Force SentryEquipment1 x  Crown of Protection1 x  Sunfire Amulet1 x  Wand of HealingIncantation1 x  Group Heal1 x  Heal1 x  Lay Hands1 x  Minor Heal1 x  Purify1 x  Renewing Rain1 x  Resurrection1 x  V'Tarrian Healing Song

She's legendary so you can't make her HA.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 11, 2016, 05:31:09 PM
:-\ ... does it at least do at least 4 dice? I can prolly work around it if it does. Its not sunfire burst is it? Le sigh (impotent holy resignation).

I said "new" holy attack spell. I'll save the rest for when it's spoiled.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on May 11, 2016, 08:09:00 PM
My hero! (Fluttery eyes)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on May 11, 2016, 08:18:12 PM
just thought about this.  We have not seen a holy Wall conjuration yet.  Maybe we will see one?!!? 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 11, 2016, 08:22:27 PM
just thought about this.  We have not seen a holy Wall conjuration yet.  Maybe we will see one?!!?

I'm hoping for:

Wall of Holy Light.  Incorporeal, with passage attack dealing extra damage to undead and/or Dark creatures.  Possibly deals burn and/or daze/stun.  Infinitely high (e.g. flying doesn't bypass the wall).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on May 11, 2016, 08:43:02 PM
That is crazy,  your depiction is exactly what i was thinking or imagining for a holy light wall, even down to the high extension dealing damaging flying units.   Sounds great. 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on May 11, 2016, 10:19:52 PM
I could see Cassiel being very useful for healing Ehren from the Priestess Academy set.

Also she's flying! That eliminates a lot of ways that normal familiars get mauled
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Jedah on May 12, 2016, 12:14:40 AM
This is perfect! Very very excited!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on May 12, 2016, 02:10:12 AM
Cassie and all those possibilites will definetly benefit Priest and Priestess! I cant wait for more Academy Priestess spoiler and all those possible new spells from PvS!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 12, 2016, 05:05:58 AM
Now I want to see mage trained in both Holy and Nature.
Also she's flying! That eliminates a lot of ways that normal familiars get mauled
Which familiars from schools other than War aren't flying?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Mystery on May 12, 2016, 05:15:47 AM
sersiryx

Now I want to see mage trained in both Holy and Nature.
Also she's flying! That eliminates a lot of ways that normal familiars get mauled
Which familiars from schools other than War aren't flying?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on May 12, 2016, 05:24:42 AM
All those that are sightseeing Gravikor? :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 12, 2016, 08:10:47 AM
sersiryx

Now I want to see mage trained in both Holy and Nature.
Also she's flying! That eliminates a lot of ways that normal familiars get mauled
Which familiars from schools other than War aren't flying?

The previously existing flying ones include:
- Fellella, Pixie Familiar
- Huginn, Raven Familiar
- Thoughtspore

Those without flying include:
- Goblin Builder
- Gurmash, Orc Seargeant
- Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword
- Sersiryx, Imp Familiar
- Wizard's Tower

Honourable mentions to Corrosive Orchid and Nightshade Lotus, which aren't Familiars but each can perform attacks and each effectively get to cast a spell once (Dissolve and Sleep, respectively).  And Slaknir, Goblin Chieftain, who in principle can cast Force Push every round.  And Temple of Light and Akiro's Hammer, which can make ranged attacks that feel a bit like a Familiar (e.g. like a less flexible Wizard's Tower).  I guess Tataree and Acolyte of the Bog Queen and some others feel a bit like a Familiar, too, so it's a bit of a grey area with these honourable mentions. In fact, any creature with a ranged attack, especially one with an effect die roll, like Goblin Alchemist or Gorgon Archer or Flaming Hellion or Thornlasher, feels a bit like a Familiar that slings attack spells for free, just without as many options (e.g. no planning phase).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: fas723 on May 12, 2016, 01:06:56 PM
just thought about this.  We have not seen a holy Wall conjuration yet.  Maybe we will see one?!!?

I'm hoping for:

Wall of Holy Light.  Incorporeal, with passage attack dealing extra damage to undead and/or Dark creatures.  Possibly deals burn and/or daze/stun.  Infinitely high (e.g. flying doesn't bypass the wall).

Sound like it could take a while (3 action?) to concur with eagle claw boots...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on May 12, 2016, 02:00:09 PM
Eagleclaw Boots can only climb over Corporeal walls.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on May 12, 2016, 02:55:52 PM
I'm a big fan of Cassiel, I think there's a number of good roles she can fill. She's not such an obvious target that an enemy is immediately going to try and get rid of her like say a Wizard Tower or maybe in Cervere The Forrest Shadow.

I'm also VERY excited that Temple High Guards are going to be legal. I mean oh my stars and garters what an asset these guys have been in local games I've played. Holy has a reputation of being a tough nut to crack in terms of defense and this is just going to reinforce that.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 12, 2016, 03:28:31 PM
Eagleclaw Boots can only climb over Corporeal walls.

Also, there isn't much point to climbing a wall with the Passage Attacks trait, since it attacks you anyways (before you move).  So... might as well just walk through it, which doesn't use up your Full Action - e.g. can still use a quick-action when you get to the other side, assuming you don't get struck by a condition that says otherwise.

Also, not sure if a Wall of Holy Light should block LoS or not.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on May 12, 2016, 03:36:16 PM
Is there an enchantment that's been spoiled or a piece of equipment that a holy mage can use that will allow them at the end of their action phase or at some point to put a creature on guard. I know the beastmaster has the Cloak and I know there's a Defend incantation but I'm trying to remember if I've seen anything that will allow me to both pray with the cleric in the early stages of a match while she builds up mana and then put her on guard behind a wall so she's not susceptible to ranged attacks.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on May 12, 2016, 04:52:44 PM
There's always Defend. It's an incantation and takes an action but still.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on May 12, 2016, 07:24:23 PM
I think you'll get better mileage out of her by combining her with Ehren or by preemptively protecting and banking heals (healing charm).  I think I'd prefer to pray with the cheaper clerics like disciple of radiance or asyran cleric.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on May 12, 2016, 08:11:31 PM
Temple Sentry from Priestess Academy is summoned on guard if that helps :D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 12, 2016, 08:14:59 PM
Is there an enchantment that's been spoiled or a piece of equipment that a holy mage can use that will allow them at the end of their action phase or at some point to put a creature on guard. I know the beastmaster has the Cloak and I know there's a Defend incantation but I'm trying to remember if I've seen anything that will allow me to both pray with the cleric in the early stages of a match while she builds up mana and then put her on guard behind a wall so she's not susceptible to ranged attacks.
You may be thinking about Academy Priestess.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on May 12, 2016, 08:47:04 PM
I think you'll get better mileage out of her by combining her with Ehren or by preemptively protecting and banking heals (healing charm).  I think I'd prefer to pray with the cheaper clerics like disciple of radiance or asyran cleric.

I don't disagree but if there was a way to get her out in round 2 or 3 as a backup cleric and allow her to continuously build mana so she has like 5-10 by the time you start needing heals/group heals/possibly even a lay hands that'd be great but I'd want to find a way to make sure she's protected as much as possible. I've already got some ideas how to do that but throwing her behind a wall would be great but the flying thing becomes an issue. I suppose I could run a non Guardian Angel Priest/Priestess build and just throw down a Gravikor.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: sIKE on May 12, 2016, 09:08:53 PM
Just put her on guard. Behind the wall of course...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 12, 2016, 09:20:41 PM
Just put her on guard. Behind the wall of course...

I think he plans to use her full action to put mana on Temple of Asyra until she has built up a fair amount of her own mana from channeling - all while guarding behind a wall so as to stay out of LoS.

I think a Mage Wand with Defend would be your best bet.  But then you're spending your quick cast and 1 mana per turn in order to gain 1 mana per turn... which seems like a losing endeavour.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on May 12, 2016, 10:09:14 PM
Could just Maim Wings her, then Shift Enchantment it later when you want her to fly again.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on May 12, 2016, 10:51:51 PM
Can you put Maim Wings on a non-flyer if I wanted to shift it to something?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on May 12, 2016, 10:58:05 PM
targets a corporeal creature. so yes. however that's a lot of spellbook points to spend removing a strength.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: fas723 on May 13, 2016, 01:31:53 PM
If she pray by the altar she generates 2 mana per turn for an initial cost of 9 mana. Not bad at all.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on May 13, 2016, 01:43:29 PM
I think if people worry about her not lasting that long she's an easy candidate for Iguana Regrowth. As was mentioned earlier there are a lot of nice spells in Priestess Academy that she plays well with. Remove Curse, Cure, and Glancing Blow come to mind. Just useful spells you'd rather not take the time to have to cast yourself. She almost pays the cost of Mend by herself every turn also.

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on May 13, 2016, 07:48:22 PM
Not to mention that she can cast your Crown of Protection for you and then you can give her another armor.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: bigfatchef on May 14, 2016, 04:32:00 AM
So she is the first familiar with the ability to cast more then 2 different types of cards. Like a flying variable battleforge/fellela/huginn.
And she can pray and by that earn 2 mana per round.

And she can fight with 1 die for sure. That's not much but can help against a forcefield to remove tokens. A battleforge can't do that.

Very versatile little helper indeed!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on May 14, 2016, 09:02:23 AM
Technically she can cast some equipment, one conjuration, enchantments, and incantations with the healing or protection subtype.  Arcane ward is a protection spell, healing wand, and sunfire amulet can also be cast!!!
She is really cool.


Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 14, 2016, 10:09:00 AM
She is really cool.
She's second creature than can indirectly cast other creatures.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on May 14, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
So going over Tom vasel video of priestess academy set, there are some cool protection and healing spells from the new set.

Remove curses
Cure
Mend
Restore + 10 life dissipate 3
Paladins valor
Circle of protection
Glancing blow
Asyra's touch

Restore and glancing blow are both solid new editions and could be very painful to deal with especially if it's not coming from the Mage but from Cassiel!

And we still have much more from the PVS set to hear about!!!

I will be playing more holy school mages once both of these expansions come out.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 18, 2016, 11:00:44 AM
New Preview Added
From the Banks of Lake Michigan (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-from-the-banks-of-lake-michigan)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 18, 2016, 01:56:51 PM
New Preview Added
From the Banks of Lake Michigan (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-from-the-banks-of-lake-michigan)

I like the idea of this "tide" effect... reminds me of how night/day effects get incorporated into some games by looking at even vs odd turns. But...

If tide is primarily linked to having initiative, it seems that the Siren will be well-balanced in 1-on-1 (Arena) matches, but a little sub-par at multiplayer free-for-all, where she only has initiative 1/N of the time, where N is the number of players.

Perhaps her terrain effects will compensate for her lack of initiative in multiplayer matches.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 18, 2016, 02:00:09 PM
New Preview Added
From the Banks of Lake Michigan (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-from-the-banks-of-lake-michigan)
I can totally see him playing tennis with Wizard's Tower.
I like the idea of this "tide" effect... reminds me of how night/day effects get incorporated into some games by looking at even vs odd turns. But...

If tide is primarily linked to having initiative, it seems that the Siren will be well-balanced in 1-on-1 (Arena) matches, but a little sub-par at multiplayer free-for-all, where she only has initiative 1/N of the time, where N is the number of players.

Perhaps her terrain effects will compensate for her lack of initiative in multiplayer matches.
Or she may be stronger there if other cards are stronger without the initiative.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 18, 2016, 02:09:22 PM
Or she may be stronger there if other cards are stronger without the initiative.

Perhaps.  I was assuming all her "aquatic" creatures get strong (when the tide/swell is high) and weak (low tide) together.  Maybe her creatures get strong in rounds when her conjurations get weak, and vice versa, or something like that.  As soon as I saw this guy, I was thinking "you want to summon him near the end of a round when you don't have initiative, so he becomes active in a round when you have initiative - kind of like going into decline in an odd numbered round so you can enter the board with a "Were-" race in an even numbered round in Small World. (https://cdn1.daysofwonder.com/smallworld/en/img/sw_cu_rules_en.pdf)"
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 18, 2016, 02:28:55 PM
There are more "tidal" effects for her, but she does have plenty of "steady" effects too. I'm sure when you see the Deptonnes you'll see that she has creatures that will be solid regardless of initiative, and also the crocodile ;-).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 18, 2016, 02:50:09 PM
There are more "tidal" effects for her, but she does have plenty of "steady" effects too. I'm sure when you see the Deptonnes you'll see that she has creatures that will be solid regardless of initiative, and also the crocodile ;-).

Rawr!!

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12747865_965909670111792_758193574525251534_o.jpg)
(from Facebook) (https://www.facebook.com/MageWars/photos/a.210004849035615.44372.201117713257662/965909670111792/?type=3&theater)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on May 19, 2016, 01:41:25 AM
Wow! Very cool effect. Very thematic.  Nice to see our first water school creature.  The water school is going to get a lot of love in this expansion.  Can not wait for more reveals!


May we see a possible incantation or conjuration spell that messes with initiative for a round?  That maybe too powerful now that I think about it, but why not! Maybe it's only temporary for one creature only?
 "Tide shift" "moon pull"

Also I remember a podcast talk about some changes too environment (conjurations) that may impact creatures as well?!?!
 ;D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Anubis on May 19, 2016, 04:11:07 AM
and also the crocodile ;-).

The Cro-Cro-Dile? The big green thing with a big mouth and lots of big teeth??

The Cro-Cro-Dile??



Rawr!!

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12747865_965909670111792_758193574525251534_o.jpg)
(from Facebook) (https://www.facebook.com/MageWars/photos/a.210004849035615.44372.201117713257662/965909670111792/?type=3&theater)

Yeah that!!

So happy!! Thank you Arcane Wonders for making this game so great!!!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on May 19, 2016, 09:17:05 AM
I absolutely love the art for the Tidescaller. So many ideas come to mind on how to use him.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: wtcannonjr on May 20, 2016, 05:57:44 AM
I absolutely love the art for the Tidescaller. So many ideas come to mind on how to use him.

I can see a Druid adding this creature to combo with Thornlasher and Bloodspine Walls.

Funny that this is not Siren Only. Seems like every mage gets to take advantage of the tides.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 20, 2016, 06:55:02 AM
I absolutely love the art for the Tidescaller. So many ideas come to mind on how to use him.

I can see a Druid adding this creature to combo with Thornlasher and Bloodspine Walls.

Too bad he's out of school for druid and as opposed to Thornlasher he can be pushed through a wall.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Anubis on May 23, 2016, 09:22:04 AM
Luminous Blast!

Amazing again!!  :o

And the artwork on that card is completly stunning!

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Tyrnan on May 23, 2016, 09:49:49 AM
Yeah :D. It really looks great. Finally a potent holy attack spell.
Btw, am I supposed to know wht malakai's basilica is?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: chinesemage on May 23, 2016, 09:54:05 AM
nice to see a light attack spell,but the range of cast is a problem(0-0).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 23, 2016, 10:21:59 AM
Yeah :D. It really looks great. Finally a potent holy attack spell.
Btw, am I supposed to know wht malakai's basilica is?

Not yet... ;-)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on May 23, 2016, 11:38:00 AM
Yeah :D. It really looks great. Finally a potent holy attack spell.
Btw, am I supposed to know wht malakai's basilica is?

Same could be said for the Paladins Solar Aura. With much the same response I imagine :)

Also kinda curious who the Viridian Lace are.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 23, 2016, 02:16:35 PM
It's a boat.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 23, 2016, 05:37:44 PM
Even though it has as many dice as Hurl Rock it can be boosted by Dawnbreaker Ring (and Malakai's fire) to deal more damage.
For some time I was thinking about melee attack spells, but was unsure how balanced they would be with melee+x bonuses.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on May 23, 2016, 06:11:37 PM
Just fun stuff and thoughts with blast...
at 0-0 ranged it can still shoot fliers for solid damage, which is always handy since Holy mages pay triple for Maim Wings.  As a ranged attack spell, even with 0-0 range, it gives Holy melee fighter a high damage option to bypass guards.  Also, of course, as an attack spell it can be mounted on an elemental wand, thoughtspore or Wizards Tower. 
It also only takes 3 mana to push it to 6 dice with a hawkeye, then 7 damage with the Light ring. (8 if you opt to pay triple for a marked for death, and just want to be that guy.)

Its effect roll is as reliable as pillar of light but hits with more meaningful damage.  So, it can be a chain-dazing beatdown tool- Melee weapon of choice mainhand, Blast wand off hand..then go rek stuff.  With its high damage and effect chance together, other melee mages can do well running it too (other than dark ones).  Forcemaster for example can pretty effectively combine it with double strikes from Galvatar for solid burst damage and reliable Daze/stuns.

It also-also has the nice perk that the only piece of equipment that grants "Light -X" is dark mage only (and that obscured is meaningless when the range is 0-0), so there are limited pieces to specifically single out this damage type unlike other elementals.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 23, 2016, 06:22:53 PM
If You run both Akiro's Favor and Dawnbreaker Ring You've got 44% of stunning the enemy with the blast. It can be deadly especially when timed right.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on May 23, 2016, 07:00:14 PM
How does the dawnbreaker ring help the effect die? Does that add one to the effect die rolls as well? I was under the impression it did not, if im wrong though then that's awesome!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on May 23, 2016, 07:08:44 PM
Correct, Dawnbreakers ring doesn't increase the effect roll.

Light attacks gaining Melee+X or Ranged+X do not change the effect die, only the attack roll.

The effect roll only changes in the event of "Light +X", (such as most other Light attacks +2 vs nonliving) or Light -X (such as cloak of shadows)

So, for example, Fire Shaper Ring does not boost effect rolls.. only gives Melee/Ranged +1.. but the Adramlech Warlocks Smoldering Curses ability does, because it confers "Flame +1" on the target.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 23, 2016, 07:10:54 PM
How does the dawnbreaker ring help the effect die? Does that add one to the effect die rolls as well? I was under the impression it did not, if im wrong though then that's awesome!
You're right, it doesn't. I must have wrongly shortened the effects of those rings to damage type+1 in my mind.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 27, 2016, 08:24:28 AM
Updated with the preview from Monday and Today. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on May 27, 2016, 08:33:03 AM
Updated with the preview from Monday and Today. Enjoy!

Awesome. This has really started getting me more excited for the game after a couple weeks/months where I felt like I was losing interest.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 27, 2016, 08:56:27 AM
Naiya doesn't disappoint.  Slap Harmonize on her and keep her "underwater" and she's channeling 3.  That's a 5 mana net "discount" when she casts Crumble on her opponent's equipment!
(Notice she doesn't have the common restriction of "quick" spells)

P.S.  When she casts Crumble, who gains the 2 mana?

P.P.S. I'm not sure where she's hiding that "coral dagger."  Her hair, maybe? Or perhaps those spikey fin-like protrusions near her ankles are daggers?

P.P.P.S.  Just realized she already has 4 spell types she can cast.  Hopefully we get more water Enchantments so it isn't quite so obvious that it's Rust that she just put face-down on that enemy creature.  And right now, her only tournament-legal Equipment she can cast is Elemental Wand, but I'm sure we'll get a bunch more (including Leviathan Scale Armor) in this expansion.  In addition to the staple utility spells Dissolve/Crumble, she also has access to healing in Renewing Rain and Raincloud.  So... she can throw attack spells, a curse, some healing, strip equipment from enemy mages, cast some equipment on friendly mages, add corrodes (Acid Ball), remove burns (lots of ways)... and that's without knowing anything about Songs!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 27, 2016, 09:08:25 AM
Naiya doesn't disappoint.  Slap Harmonize on her and keep her "underwater" and she's channeling 3.  That's a 5 mana net "discount" when she casts Crumble on her opponent's equipment!
(Notice she doesn't have the common restriction of "quick" spells)

P.S.  When she casts Crumble, who gains the 2 mana?

P.P.S. I'm not sure where she's hiding that "coral dagger."  Her hair, maybe? Or perhaps those spikey fin-like protrusions near her ankles are daggers?

Your mage gains the mana.

Like any true lady, she's not saying where the Coral Dagger is.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 27, 2016, 09:16:50 AM
P.S.  When she casts Crumble, who gains the 2 mana?

Your mage gains the mana.

So let's say she has Harmonize and is underwater, so the first round she's active (or after spending her mana on a previous turn) she has 3 mana on her.  You could have her cast Crumble, and it might as well say "Destroy an equipment costing 3 mana or less.  Your mage gains 2 mana." And suddenly you have more mana available to your mage than your opponent(s) expected you to have that round! 
Of course, it's generally better than that, because she could destroy a more expensive equipment if desired, or she could have more mana on her if she's been saving it from previous rounds... but the fact your mage could actually gain mana when she casts something, even the first round she's active, is pretty nifty!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on May 27, 2016, 11:27:51 AM
Putting a Harmonize on her and keeping her within 1 zone (crumble) of the enemy mage...especially the Paladin...paints a Massive target on her.   I hope you've got a protection plan!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on May 27, 2016, 11:41:22 AM
Naiya is pretty solid I will admit. However she suffers from a lack of armor so yeah keeping her alive is a problem if the enemy decides she's more of a nuisance than she's worth. Few solid attacks and she's going down. However there's a number of ways to protect her of course.  Her value is obvious, whether your opponent decides to let it manifest is something else.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 27, 2016, 12:11:10 PM
She's not the only one that can pull such trick, but she's the only one that can do that and have 3 channeling at the same time. Gurmash can gain 3 or more mana per round, but doesn't have access to mana generating spells. Fellela, Hugin and Thoughtspores can't have more than 2 channeling with current card pool.

Excluding Enchantment-only casting familiars only Wizard Tower is limited to quick spells.

Naiya is pretty solid I will admit. However she suffers from a lack of armor so yeah keeping her alive is a problem if the enemy decides she's more of a nuisance than she's worth. Few solid attacks and she's going down. However there's a number of ways to protect her of course.  Her value is obvious, whether your opponent decides to let it manifest is something else.
She's big target just for her versatility. She can prepare engine while the Siren is summoning creatures or running around the arena, and after that she can join the fight too. We already have 0-2 Water attack spells and she will be able to cast range 3 spells too.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on May 27, 2016, 01:33:17 PM
I hope she know some songs from ACDC :)

Naiya seems pretty good, especially her chanelling compared to her Mana Cost. Cant wait for more Water spells and Songs!
Title: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on May 27, 2016, 02:12:46 PM
Someone should start a Mage Wars band named after this card. Maybe something like "Tides of Naiya" or "Coral Dagger"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on May 27, 2016, 02:31:57 PM
Also,
Yeah :D. It really looks great. Finally a potent holy attack spell.

"Super-Holy-BLAST!”

“WHAT!? That’s not a real spell!”

The Bloodwave was hit in the face by a Super-Holy-Blast.
 (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14125.0)

It is now!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 27, 2016, 03:01:16 PM
Someone should start a Mage Wars band named after this card. Maybe something like "Tides of Naiya" or "Coral Dagger"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(http://www.naiyaraks.com/tribalret6-orig-v2-copy2.gif)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=naiya (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=naiya)
Quote from: Urban Dictionary
Naiya is a sexy fun amazing and beautiful woman. She posses the power to make you fall in love with her instantly. Strong, independent and well worth every second you spend with you. She's a keeper, one of a kind this delicious human being is,
Title: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on May 27, 2016, 03:46:55 PM
Is that real English slang?

I've suspected for a while that some of the entries on urban dictionary are just made up and no one really uses them in real life.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Anubis on May 30, 2016, 01:10:09 PM
New preview posted...

Finally some terrain conjuration!

Rules for them seem pretty straightforward and make sense. It's easier to "terraform" arena ground than already terraformed ground.

Will be very nice to use with the siren, she seems to be the first mage to make an important use of the possibility to "place" things on the arena and to move things around. It will not anymore be the " I teleport you to where my two biggest creatures are....".  I like that a lot.

Laddinfance: Will cantrip be a trait for all terrain conjurations?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on May 30, 2016, 01:24:43 PM
Laddinfance: Will cantrip be a trait for all terrain conjurations?

Since it would be unfair if not, I'm guessing it will.

I wonder about two things:

- will vines interact with terrain spells?
- Will the other mages all get their own unique terrain cards?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 30, 2016, 01:29:04 PM
Was kind of hoping that terrain would come with tiles to cover the zones in the Arena - analogous to the terrain zones in Domination.  I guess nothing prevents me from printing off an image of a "shallow sea" and placing it on the Arena when this card is in play. 
(Similarly, I guess I could make standees for walls.  I've seen standees for mages in online images, but we always use the cards.)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Donovan on May 30, 2016, 04:52:19 PM
Was kind of hoping that terrain would come with tiles to cover the zones in the Arena - analogous to the terrain zones in Domination.  I guess nothing prevents me from printing off an image of a "shallow sea" and placing it on the Arena when this card is in play. 
(Similarly, I guess I could make standees for walls.  I've seen standees for mages in online images, but we always use the cards.)

Funny, I had it the other way around: I wished in Battlegrounds they had provided the terrain enchantment cards so that we could use them in Arena as well.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: bigfatchef on May 30, 2016, 05:01:23 PM
Laddinfance: Will cantrip be a trait for all terrain conjurations?

Since it would be unfair if not, I'm guessing it will.

I wonder about two things:

- will vines interact with terrain spells?
- Will the other mages all get their own unique terrain cards?

I have the same questions. I Think if there will be lava terrain all vines will burn down (well it depends on dice). So they will interact.

I really hope that other terrain than water will also be in the set and in a huge amount. I would want to put terrain in many books, i guess.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 30, 2016, 06:37:13 PM
Laddinfance: Will cantrip be a trait for all terrain conjurations?

Since it would be unfair if not, I'm guessing it will.

I wonder about two things:

- will vines interact with terrain spells?
- Will the other mages all get their own unique terrain cards?

I have the same questions. I Think if there will be lava terrain all vines will burn down (well it depends on dice). So they will interact.

I really hope that other terrain than water will also be in the set and in a huge amount. I would want to put terrain in many books, i guess.

There either needs to be terrain for each school, or at least a generic (Novice?) terrain that anyone could use in order to counter other terrain. Perhaps a "restored arena" spell. And perhaps a "purge terrain" spell that costs 12-16 (like a Purge Magic) that resets all the terrain in the arena - or perhaps all zones at range 0-2 within LoS.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 30, 2016, 06:56:07 PM
Was kind of hoping that terrain would come with tiles to cover the zones in the Arena - analogous to the terrain zones in Domination.  I guess nothing prevents me from printing off an image of a "shallow sea" and placing it on the Arena when this card is in play. 
(Similarly, I guess I could make standees for walls.  I've seen standees for mages in online images, but we always use the cards.)
It would be too cumbersome to put tile over a zone with cards already in it. It's normal to have 4+ creatures and/or conjurations in the same zone, and those objects can be enchanted or have tokens on them.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 30, 2016, 10:19:46 PM
No, not all terrain has Cantrip. That is a special thing for Shallow Sea. There are several different terrains in this set, and currently it's possible for any Mage to grab a terrain without having to pay triple cost for it. No their is not a terrain for every school, but future sets are going to keep adding to terrain so it can be even more well rounded.

As for Vine Markers, those are standard conjurations and so currently the are not replaced by terrain. In the future other Mages will certainly have their own "unique" terrains. In this set, Shallow Sea is the only terrain limited to a single Mage.

At the moment you only need to include terrain in your spellbook if there is a specific terrain that really enhances your strategy or if there is a specific terrain you're afraid of. As more terrain comes out that will all still be true, but the options will be greatly increased. We're excited with what we can do for terrain. Terrain is meant to be a more permanent metamorphosis than some of the standard conjurations. Hence, having a very specific way to be destroyed. On Wednesday, I'll be putting up a poll to see what the next card you'd like to see is.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 31, 2016, 06:09:39 AM
No, not all terrain has Cantrip. That is a special thing for Shallow Sea. There are several different terrains in this set, and currently it's possible for any Mage to grab a terrain without having to pay triple cost for it. No their is not a terrain for every school, but future sets are going to keep adding to terrain so it can be even more well rounded.

As for Vine Markers, those are standard conjurations and so currently the are not replaced by terrain. In the future other Mages will certainly have their own "unique" terrains. In this set, Shallow Sea is the only terrain limited to a single Mage.

At the moment you only need to include terrain in your spellbook if there is a specific terrain that really enhances your strategy or if there is a specific terrain you're afraid of. As more terrain comes out that will all still be true, but the options will be greatly increased. We're excited with what we can do for terrain. Terrain is meant to be a more permanent metamorphosis than some of the standard conjurations. Hence, having a very specific way to be destroyed. On Wednesday, I'll be putting up a poll to see what the next card you'd like to see is.

Sounds awesome! 

As for at least 1 terrain that no one (currently) pays triple for, all that really means is there is at least 1 Water terrain (that isn't Siren only), or perhaps at least 1 Nature or Mind or Earth or Air terrain.
...
"Air terrain" sounds like an oxymoron, but I guess it could be a foggy swamp or something. *edit* Oooh... Poison Gas terrain would be Air...

I will be thoroughly disappointed if there isn't a War terrain called "High ground." ;) This allows a duel between Siren and Paladin where they basically argue:
"This is high ground."
"No, it's a shallow sea."
"You're mistaken. This is high ground."
"You are incorrect. It is a shallow sea."
"Hmmm. I've run out of terrain cards. You're right, it's a shallow sea. My mistake."
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on May 31, 2016, 09:28:32 AM


(https://mlpforums.com/uploads/post_images/sig-4496644.4354267-2547875587-12006.jpg)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 31, 2016, 09:34:27 AM
You forgot "Auto Called Shot: All the Limbs". ;-)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 31, 2016, 10:10:30 AM
Rereading the Terrain rules from Battlegrounds Domination now makes a lot more sense...

Quote from: Mage_Wars_BGD_Rules_v15_WEB.pdf
Terrain

For future compatibility, each of these special tiles counts as terrain. Terrain is a type of conjuration spell players will be able to cast in future Mage Wars® expansions. A terrain spell changes a zone, giving it special new features. For example, a “Mud” terrain spell might turn a zone into a sticky pool of mud, whereas a “Hellscape” terrain spell might create a hellish fire zone.

When you cast a terrain spell on a zone which already has terrain in it, the new terrain spell cancels out and replaces the old terrain spell effects. The special tiles of Battlegrounds all count as terrain, and you can cancel their effects by casting a Terrain spell on top of them. However, they cannot be destroyed or moved.

You must follow all of the normal rules for overlaying Terrain. For the purposes of using terrain rules, these special tiles have a mana cost of 0.

If, for some reason, the Terrain that overlays a special tile is removed or destroyed, the original special ability of the tile functions again.

So... I guess we can expect to see "Mud" (Earth school) and "Hellscape" (Fire and/or Dark school) in this or an upcoming expansion.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 31, 2016, 10:20:43 AM
Oddly enough, no. Though I'm sure the next set will have Hellscape in it. My bet is a "Mud" terrain is going to get a name change first. I'll show you guys Consecrated Ground soon, but tomorrow is the introduction of songs.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on May 31, 2016, 10:29:41 AM
Oddly enough, no. Though I'm sure the next set will have Hellscape in it. My bet is a "Mud" terrain is going to get a name change first. I'll show you guys Consecrated Ground soon, but tomorrow is the introduction of songs.

And so the "next set" then is... ???

("Hellscape" doesn't seem to suggest an alt-Forcemaster vs alt-Wizard)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on May 31, 2016, 11:15:29 AM
Oh cool songs are coming up. May I request Sweet Child O Mine by Guns n Roses?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on May 31, 2016, 11:44:05 AM
Oh cool songs are coming up. May I request Sweet Child O Mine by Guns n Roses?

Nope!  Has to be "Land Down Under" from Men at Work.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 31, 2016, 11:46:43 AM
("Hellscape" doesn't seem to suggest an alt-Forcemaster vs alt-Wizard)
We got Serctarus in FwW, Akiro's Battle Cry in CoK
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on May 31, 2016, 12:02:10 PM
I will be thoroughly disappointed if there isn't a War terrain called "High ground." ;) This allows a duel between Siren and Paladin where they basically argue:
"This is high ground."
"No, it's a shallow sea."
"You're mistaken. This is high ground."
"You are incorrect. It is a shallow sea."
"Hmmm. I've run out of terrain cards. You're right, it's a shallow sea. My mistake."
Or they could cooperate and create an island on which Paladin conjures Mohktari. Then with the rain season Raincloud comes into play. ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: aridigas on May 31, 2016, 12:36:33 PM
Oh cool songs are coming up. May I request Sweet Child O Mine by Guns n Roses?

Nope!  Has to be "Land Down Under" from Men at Work.

Every little thing she does is magic - The Police
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on May 31, 2016, 12:45:57 PM
Oh cool songs are coming up. May I request Sweet Child O Mine by Guns n Roses?

Nope!  Has to be "Land Down Under" from Men at Work.

Every little thing she does is magic - The Police

Original Soundtrack to The Little Mermaid.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on June 01, 2016, 07:39:20 AM
One thing that is really mystifying me is how creatures with burn markers will interact with Shallow Sea and other kinds of water terrain. Do the burn markers immediately go away once the creatures enter the zone, or is the burn marker just kept normally on the creature, and regular rules still apply.... ?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 01, 2016, 08:24:53 AM
One thing that is really mystifying me is how creatures with burn markers will interact with Shallow Sea and other kinds of water terrain. Do the burn markers immediately go away once the creatures enter the zone, or is the burn marker just kept normally on the creature, and regular rules still apply.... ?

This was one of the toughest areas when we were working on Terrain. You can't cover all the interactions, as it would easily cover more than the whole text box. So we decided to try and keep terrain a bit simpler, but much more straightforward.

As for the rules, terrain won't do anything to Burn conditions unless a terrain specifically says it will.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 01, 2016, 05:34:39 PM
Want to learn a bit about songs?

Check it out >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-name-that-tune)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: wtcannonjr on June 01, 2016, 05:48:01 PM
Cool.  Sounds like the Siren is the first mage trained in a spell subtype.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: rant on June 01, 2016, 05:57:19 PM
Cool.  Sounds like the Siren is the first mage trained in a spell subtype.

This should be interesting.  Well, I'm excited to see what's in the song arsenal.  I'm hoping for more power ballads like this card.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on June 01, 2016, 07:57:48 PM
Actually she is the second mage: the Druid was trained in Level 1 water spells as well as the Nature School
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on June 01, 2016, 08:59:30 PM
I think Paladin will the first mage to include two Great Schools (War and Holy) although who knows exactly what his specialties are  ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on June 01, 2016, 09:12:10 PM
Actually she is the second mage: the Druid was trained in Level 1 water spells as well as the Nature School

Water isn't a subtype. It's a school.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on June 01, 2016, 09:24:52 PM
Actually she is the second mage: the Druid was trained in Level 1 water spells as well as the Nature School

Water isn't a subtype. It's a school.

Can someone please explain me how a mage can be trained in a subtype spell, but that isn't considered a school ?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: bigfatchef on June 02, 2016, 03:12:22 AM
Actually she is the second mage: the Druid was trained in Level 1 water spells as well as the Nature School

Water isn't a subtype. It's a school.

Can someone please explain me how a mage can be trained in a subtype spell, but that isn't considered a school ?

Same as forecaster has subtype restrictions by paying triple for non-mind-creatures. A mage could also be trined in songs.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: bigfatchef on June 02, 2016, 03:22:26 AM
First impression of ballad of courage was, that it is very expensive fit only dissipate two. After thinking about it again i realize, that i see cheetah speed mainly for rush openings (and to counter slow). Not to get hindered and get charge +2 also makes sense while rushing. Or maybe a surprise attack.
So mainly you get the pressure/surprise momentum plus 2 dice for 7 mana and a quickcast one time. You have a second turn to do the job of somehow it fails the first time.

All in all very special and worth the price only in a few situations.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on June 02, 2016, 03:39:35 AM
Against Druid i will always add one into my book! Vines can hinder Elusive creatures, but this spell completly overcome that :)

Also, in the upcoming age ot terrain spells, one would assume that there will be more terrains causing hinder. Shallow see is a nice example :)

EDIT: If we compare this spell to teleport, in some cases, your Warlord will gain a very good tool for increasing mobility of your creature. If between your creature and your target is not a Wall and is not Tangelvined, you can move your creature up to 2 zones and create Havock. In this case, spending 6 spellpoints for Teleport or 2 spellpoints for Ballad is a very great difference.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 02, 2016, 03:48:44 AM
The Paladin will be trained (partially or completely) in the war school while the Siren will have training in songs probably.

Very cool card, but I'm not convinced yet it is worth the mana. 7 mana seems a lot! No way to tell without knowing the rest of her arsenal of course!

I'm guessing this spell can be awesome to move her creatures OUT of the water for the Siren or for the the paladin/warlord, to allow his creatures to charge IN the water.

This spell can also be used against druids and her vines!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: jacksmack on June 02, 2016, 05:15:17 AM
Text from the article at frontpage:
One of the really interesting parts of songs are that they’re often psychic spells as well. So, if you don’t have a mind then you can’t benefit from most of them. However, some songs, like Ballad of Courage, don’t care if you’re alive or not, they just want you to have a mind.


I must say, until now i assumed that all non-living creatures were psychic immune, but there are currently a few  exceptions like Gray Wrath and Whirling Spirit.


This song looks like a really cool and useful card. I would have liked to see the subtype 'command' on this one as well. Cant Gurmash sing ?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 02, 2016, 06:11:00 AM
This song looks like a really cool and useful card. I would have liked to see the subtype 'command' on this one as well. Cant Gurmash sing ?

I'd listen to Gurmash over Justin Bieber.

It opens up design space for a War Mage only Dwarven bard familiar that can only cast "song" and "riddle" spells. ;) Perhaps riddles would be like a curse but with Psychic subtype that confuses an enemy creature until they succeed at a "solve riddle" roll on the d12. (I'm just making $&@? up at this point)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 02, 2016, 06:22:24 AM
I find a singing Gurmash quite disturbing.  :P I'd prefer him to just command my troops and hit them with his whip.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on June 02, 2016, 06:58:13 PM
Gurmash singing? ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkGZl4pdO0
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 03, 2016, 10:35:26 AM
Gurmash singing? ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkGZl4pdO0
Where there's a whip, there's a way! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y) must be one of his favorite songs
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on June 03, 2016, 12:09:34 PM
Gurmash singing? ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkGZl4pdO0
Where there's a whip, there's a way! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y) must be one of his favorite songs

Takes me back.  My sister would sing this song when we went hiking as a family.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 03, 2016, 01:01:16 PM
It's time to really rock, with today's spoiler.

Voice of the Sea (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-voice-of-the-sea)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 07, 2016, 12:37:57 PM
Today's spoiler is up. Are you fearless enough to look at it?

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-knight-of-the-red-helm)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 07, 2016, 01:29:57 PM
He looks great. If he were to take down enemy buddy then with veteran token he will roll 6 dice against enemy mage. 4 of them under Bloodwave is definitely worrisome.

The more cards I see the more I'm worried that Paladin will overshadow both Priest and Bloodwave Warlord. If he's fully trained in both Holy and War then he's got access to Cassiel (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoilier-temple-high-guard), Temple of Asyra and Altar of Carnage while Holy soldiers are some of the best soldiers in the game. He will be also able to use Eisenach's Forge Hammer and Harshforge Plate. With that in mind I suspect that Paladin will have both Arcane and Dark as forbidden schools. That's why the card I want to see the most from the set is Paladin's ability card.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 07, 2016, 01:34:59 PM
He looks great. If he were to take down enemy buddy then with veteran token he will roll 6 dice against enemy mage. 4 of them under Bloodwave is definitely worrisome.

The more cards I see the more I'm worried that Paladin will overshadow both Priest and Bloodwave Warlord. If he's fully trained in both Holy and War then he's got access to Cassiel (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoilier-temple-high-guard), Temple of Asyra and Altar of Carnage while Holy soldiers are some of the best soldiers in the game. He will be also able to use Eisenach's Forge Hammer and Harshforge Plate. With that in mind I suspect that Paladin will have both Arcane and Dark as forbidden schools. That's why the card I want to see the most from the set is Paladin's ability card.

The Paladin's ability card is a bit... involved. It's not quite like anything we've yet done.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on June 07, 2016, 02:02:36 PM
I just realized, that founding father of the whole Order of the Red Helm must be Max Eisenhardt :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 07, 2016, 02:07:28 PM
He looks great. If he were to take down enemy buddy then with veteran token he will roll 6 dice against enemy mage. 4 of them under Bloodwave is definitely worrisome.

The more cards I see the more I'm worried that Paladin will overshadow both Priest and Bloodwave Warlord. If he's fully trained in both Holy and War then he's got access to Cassiel (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoilier-temple-high-guard), Temple of Asyra and Altar of Carnage while Holy soldiers are some of the best soldiers in the game. He will be also able to use Eisenach's Forge Hammer and Harshforge Plate. With that in mind I suspect that Paladin will have both Arcane and Dark as forbidden schools. That's why the card I want to see the most from the set is Paladin's ability card.

The Paladin's ability card is a bit... involved. It's not quite like anything we've yet done.
Is it double sided with one side being full Holy and level 1 War, and other side full War and level 1 Holy or something like that? :P Like Wizard's elemental training but with different abilities depending on his choice?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 07, 2016, 02:21:26 PM
I just realized, that founding father of the whole Order of the Red Helm must be Max Eisenhardt :)

You beat me to it.   8)

Cool card.  My Forcemaster is not impressed. (Sleep-spore can't touch this guy!) I imagine he'll be a staple in most holy and war books as he's a good counter to the ever-popular "buddy" builds.  Even Adramelech should be a little concerned.  (I'd say Talos, but I don't think Talos is too worried about anything)

If you have him and Aurora Lucere (from Academy Priestess) in play, you've got solid counters to pretty much any creature.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 07, 2016, 02:56:38 PM
He looks great. If he were to take down enemy buddy then with veteran token he will roll 6 dice against enemy mage. 4 of them under Bloodwave is definitely worrisome.

The more cards I see the more I'm worried that Paladin will overshadow both Priest and Bloodwave Warlord. If he's fully trained in both Holy and War then he's got access to Cassiel (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoilier-temple-high-guard), Temple of Asyra and Altar of Carnage while Holy soldiers are some of the best soldiers in the game. He will be also able to use Eisenach's Forge Hammer and Harshforge Plate. With that in mind I suspect that Paladin will have both Arcane and Dark as forbidden schools. That's why the card I want to see the most from the set is Paladin's ability card.

The Paladin's ability card is a bit... involved. It's not quite like anything we've yet done.
Is it double sided with one side being full Holy and level 1 War, and other side full War and level 1 Holy or something like that? :P Like Wizard's elemental training but with different abilities depending on his choice?

You'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 07, 2016, 04:56:03 PM
Absolutely LOVE it!  ;D

Apart from the freakishly awesome art, is it me, or is the red helmet a bit too red compared to the rest of the armour?


(Seems also very cool for the priest)

I'm very eager to see the ability cards as well. I'm guessing blighthearth will be our next spoiler?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 07, 2016, 04:59:25 PM
Absolutely LOVE it!  ;D

Apart from the freakishly awesome art, is it me, or is the red helmet a bit too red compared to the rest of the armour?


(Seems also very cool for the priest)
It's not just You, it's too bright red for me too.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 07, 2016, 06:19:54 PM
Absolutely LOVE it!  ;D

Apart from the freakishly awesome art, is it me, or is the red helmet a bit too red compared to the rest of the armour?


(Seems also very cool for the priest)
It's not just You, it's too bright red for me too.

Probably is to block the psychic waves! :D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: steack on June 08, 2016, 11:35:13 AM
no  because !!!

Go fasta red !!!!!


Wagggghhhhh !!!

oups its not the good game i get out ;)


i has interviewed  the guard :

he said : "it's too bright red for me too" there are the last word begin i kill him !!  .
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 08, 2016, 11:42:57 AM
I just realized that this redhelmed knight will make great Holy Avenger. For only 11 mana You get 3/13 creature that can roll even 7 dice.
Compared to Asyran Defender he gets Psychic immunity and 1 more armor in exchange for defense and for 1 more spellbook point he gets conditional two dice.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 08, 2016, 12:13:33 PM
I just realized that this redhelmed knight will make great Holy Avenger. For only 11 mana You get 3/13 creature that can roll even 7 dice.
Compared to Asyran Defender he gets Psychic immunity and 1 more armor in exchange for defense and for 1 more spellbook point he gets conditional two dice.
yep!

I consider the priest one of the weaker mages now, but after the priestess expansion and paladin, I believe he will become a force to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: fas723 on June 08, 2016, 02:00:02 PM
Do I see power creep?
I hope so, that will make the game a bit faster and I don't mind that.
Knight of the Red Helm...mmmm...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 08, 2016, 02:04:06 PM
Do I see power creep?
I hope so, that will the game a bit faster and I don't mind that.
Knight of the Red Helm...mmmm...
I would cry for power creep. but I don't see it yet :)
Most core set cards still rock.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Schwenkgott on June 08, 2016, 02:17:23 PM
The Knight of the Red Helm is not the best Holy Avenger. Both targets, the one who attacked and triggered the Avenger and the one who is the strongest enemy, will seldom be the same creature.  White Cloak Knight should still be more solid.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: steack on June 08, 2016, 02:35:19 PM
and stand to see his brothers ,

yellow helm , blue helm , green helms and ppurple helm ,

when you invoqued the 5 team ,   you can combinated in a great robot ...

 :-Xoki

for résume stand to see this red hat in your arena and yes its too red but it s a only default.

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 08, 2016, 03:09:29 PM
The Knight of the Red Helm is not the best Holy Avenger. Both targets, the one who attacked and triggered the Avenger and the one who is the strongest enemy, will seldom be the same creature.  White Cloak Knight should still be more solid.
Sure, it depends on what your opponent does, but the whole idea of Holy Avenger depends on that. Against solo and single buddy mages KRH will be better choice.
I don't know what's better between psychic immunity and attack spells' damage and effects immunity, but WCK costs 1 mana more and has 2 less armor than KRH so he still will be easy to take down with normal attacks or attack-like incantations like Burst of Thorns. Just like with any other HA I can focus on HA WCK and deny him HA bonus.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on June 08, 2016, 04:43:09 PM
The Knight of the Red Helm is not the best Holy Avenger. Both targets, the one who attacked and triggered the Avenger and the one who is the strongest enemy, will seldom be the same creature.  White Cloak Knight should still be more solid.
Sure, it depends on what your opponent does, but the whole idea of Holy Avenger depends on that. Against solo and single buddy mages KRH will be better choice.
I don't know what's better between psychic immunity and attack spells' damage and effects immunity, but WCK costs 1 mana more and has 2 less armor than KRH so he still will be easy to take down with normal attacks or attack-like incantations like Burst of Thorns. Just like with any other HA I can focus on HA WCK and deny him HA bonus.

I think I've got to agree with Kaarin here, Schwenkgott.  The main weakness I see with KotRH is his lower life; HA fixes that.  I'd prefer KotRH over WCK because of his armor and his flexibility of targets. If the strongest creature is a better choice for the round then he gets +2 melee, if there's a target that hit something of yours, he gets +2 melee and Pierce +1.  If the opponent is foolish enough to make the strongest creature hit something other than the Avenger then you get +4 Melee and Pierce +1.

That being said, if I wanted to use Ballad of Courage (psychic) to make my Avenger scary I'd obviously choose WCK instead.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 08, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
If the definition of 'strongest' in the article is precise, then You can banish/exile the strongest enemy creature if You want to gain bonus against the second strongest enemy creature. Did Beastmaster summon Pet Falcon to mess with your HA KRH bonus? Exile it and attack the Beastmaster.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on June 09, 2016, 01:58:45 AM
Makes invisible stalker funny.  At 15 mana he will often be strongest, but they can't see him to use the ability.

Red helm knights can also wreck in teams since multiples are easy to cast
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 09, 2016, 11:27:57 AM
Quote
These knights live to hunt down the biggest creatures they can

Don't you mean the "strongest" creatures? Strength is not always a matter of size.

Then again, size has already been thematically tied to innate life gain and to level, although it hasn't been a 1:1 correlation. The bigger a creature is, the higher its level and the more innate life it has. The same does not hold true in reverse: having more innate life and levels does not increase a creature's size.

Could the same hold true for mana cost?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: bigfatchef on June 09, 2016, 01:14:17 PM
Quote
These knights live to hunt down the biggest creatures they can

Don't you mean the "strongest" creatures? Strength is not always a matter of size.

Then again, size has already been thematically tied to innate life gain and to level, although it hasn't been a 1:1 correlation. The bigger a creature is, the higher its level and the more innate life it has. The same does not hold true in reverse: having more innate life and levels does not increase a creature's size.

Could the same hold true for mana cost?

I must say I don't really get it why sardonyx has a higher level as a mage.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 09, 2016, 02:29:26 PM
Quote
These knights live to hunt down the biggest creatures they can

Don't you mean the "strongest" creatures? Strength is not always a matter of size.

Then again, size has already been thematically tied to innate life gain and to level, although it hasn't been a 1:1 correlation. The bigger a creature is, the higher its level and the more innate life it has. The same does not hold true in reverse: having more innate life and levels does not increase a creature's size.

Could the same hold true for mana cost?

I must say I don't really get it why sardonyx has a higher level as a mage.

Talos is also higher in level than a mage - and now there's a reason for him to have a mana cost!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on June 09, 2016, 02:53:20 PM
Ehren, Enduring Paladin gets to cheat and be a "big" creature but not trigger Strongest because his casting cost was only 5 to offset his damage gimmick.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 09, 2016, 03:04:14 PM
Ehren, Enduring Paladin gets to cheat and be a "big" creature but not trigger Strongest because his casting cost was only 5 to offset his damage gimmick.

I've been thinking... For Malakai Priest...
1. Lead with Ehren, Enduring Paladin and put a Regrowth on him.
2. Drop a Messenger of Bim-Shalla and maker her your Holy Avenger.  Oh, and she heals 4 dice-worth on Ehren.
3. Summon your choice of Aurora Lucere (vs minor creatures / "swarm"), Red Helm Knight (vs "buddy"), or White Cloak Knight (vs solo, esp Wizard or Warlock).
4. Once healed, try to have Ehren guard to draw "vengeance" from the Messenger, while beating down threats with Aurora/Red Helm, then go for the kill.

*edit* Oh, and pray that they never print Debilitate:
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1794784_md.png)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 09, 2016, 05:18:54 PM
*edit* Oh, and pray that they never print Debilitate:
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1794784_md.png)

iNano78, Is it that bad? Anyone else experience with this card?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on June 09, 2016, 06:17:55 PM
*edit* Oh, and pray that they never print Debilitate:
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1794784_md.png)

iNano78, Is it that bad? Anyone else experience with this card?

You forget that Holy now has in school enchantment removal and doesn't have to depend on the arcane options as much. Just carry some Remove Curse spells. If this is the only spell removed, you come out ahead in mana and equal in actions and spellpoints. If there are multiple curses to remove, you can come out ahead in all three.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 09, 2016, 09:18:03 PM
There are lots of ways to get rid of it. But it's certainly something you don't want to see revealed on Ehren when you've sunk a lot of mana and actions into healing him and he's about to make that first 5-dice attack but this gets revealed and you watch him swing with 1 die.

No this hasn't happened to me yet because I'm waiting for Academy Priestess to arrive, and Debilitate is still "just a promo" (although it could be in Lost Grimoire?).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 13, 2016, 10:05:09 AM
New spoiler up today, just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-youre-gonna-need-a-bigger-boat)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 13, 2016, 10:29:53 AM
These guys have peaked my interest.  And I already have a few questions in my mind.

If a target isn't Bleeding to begin with, and a Deptonne Berserker attacks and causes a Bleed as part of the "apply damage and effects" step, does its attack immediately gain Doublestrike that is applicable to this attack (e.g. does it attack again during the "additional strikes" step)?  Or would it have needed the Doublestrike trait at the beginning of the initial attack (e.g. the "declare attack" step) in order to make an additional attack with this attack action?

Deptonne Shaman has some weird wording.  Why isn't he worded like this:
"The first time each round that a Deptonne in the Shaman's zone melee attacks a creature with the Bleed condition, its attack gains the Vampiric trait."  Or something similar. 
For one, "this zone" isn't really defined, but I assume it means "the Deptonne Shaman's zone" and there wasn't enough room on the card. But is there a reason it needs to say "... it's first attack each round, its attack gains the Vampiric trait for that attack."?  Seems like a lot of redundant occurances of the word "attack".  Perhaps it's because a Deptonne might have more than one possible (quick) Melee attack, and if it were to somehow be able to use each of its melee attacks (e.g. through Battle Fury or similar), then it might be ambiguous if it could have a "first attack each round" with each of its melee attacks, or something like that.  But I thought the rules were already pretty explicit that Vampirism only works for the first attack of an attack action anyway (including Double/Triplestrike and Battle Fury).  Perhaps we're getting a new ability (either on a creature or through an incantation/enchantment) that otherwise might allow multiple separate attack actions that could each benefit from conditions like Vampirism or Melee/Bloodthirsty +X enhancements, etc?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 13, 2016, 11:00:35 AM
If a target isn't Bleeding to begin with, and a Deptonne Berserker attacks and causes a Bleed as part of the "apply damage and effects" step, does its attack immediately gain Doublestrike that is applicable to this attack (e.g. does it attack again during the "additional strikes" step)?  Or would it have needed the Doublestrike trait at the beginning of the initial attack (e.g. the "declare attack" step) in order to make an additional attack with this attack action?

The Additional Strikes Step is after Damage and Effects, so if you caused them to bleed then you'd get your second attack as you'd have Doublestrike when you went to the Additional Strikes Step.

Deptonne Shaman has some weird wording.  Why isn't he worded like this:
"The first time each round that a Deptonne in the Shaman's zone melee attacks a creature with the Bleed condition, its attack gains the Vampiric trait."  Or something similar. 
For one, "this zone" isn't really defined, but I assume it means "the Deptonne Shaman's zone" and there wasn't enough room on the card. But is there a reason it needs to say "... it's first attack each round, its attack gains the Vampiric trait for that attack."?  Seems like a lot of redundant occurances of the word "attack".  Perhaps it's because a Deptonne might have more than one possible (quick) Melee attack, and if it were to somehow be able to use each of its melee attacks (e.g. through Battle Fury or similar), then it might be ambiguous if it could have a "first attack each round" with each of its melee attacks, or something like that.  But I thought the rules were already pretty explicit that Vampirism only works for the first attack of an attack action anyway (including Double/Triplestrike and Battle Fury).  Perhaps we're getting a new ability (either on a creature or through an incantation/enchantment) that otherwise might allow multiple separate attack actions that could each benefit from conditions like Vampirism or Melee/Bloodthirsty +X enhancements, etc?

The Bloodshaman was difficult to word. The issue was that simpler wordings ended with the possible implication that it only affected the first Deptonne to qualify each round. In reality it effects each Deptonne in that zone, but only once per Deptonne. And yes, "this zone" is the Bloodshaman's zone.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 13, 2016, 11:13:20 AM
I really like all three, but I'm suprised to see that they have no weakness on land. They have better legs than I expected.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on June 13, 2016, 11:16:18 AM
They really are jaw-some! Hehehehehe sorry I had to.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 13, 2016, 12:31:29 PM
The Additional Strikes Step is after Damage and Effects, so if you caused them to bleed then you'd get your second attack as you'd have Doublestrike when you went to the Additional Strikes Step.

That's interesting.  That implies we've (I've) been playing Galvitar, Force Blade wrong.  Can I wait and resolve Galvitar's first attack before choosing whether it's a Doublestrike or a Sweeping attack with its full-action "Spinning Slash"?  I've always assumed you had to choose during the "declare attack" step, and it's often a tough choice because generally you only want to Sweep if you are sure the first hit is going to kill the first target.  If you get to choose later, then that's a pretty big advantage compared to declaring early, as you get to see if you need to use that second attack on the first target who managed to survive despite the odds, and/or who was miraculously killed by the first of what you assumed would require a doublestrike which was then wasted because you didn't choose "Sweeping."
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 13, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Galvitar is different. It's not gaining Doublestrike or Sweeping during the Damage and Effects step, you're picking which you're using when you make the attack. So, you've been playing Galvitar correctly.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 13, 2016, 01:20:16 PM
Galvitar is different. It's not gaining Doublestrike or Sweeping during the Damage and Effects step, you're picking which you're using when you make the attack. So, you've been playing Galvitar correctly.

I see what you're saying, but it's kind of weird.

With the Deptonne Berserker, I don't have a choice, so I make an attack.  The target gets a Bleed token during the "damage & effects" step, then instantaneously a keyword gets added to his attack, so when he reaches the "additional strikes" step, he makes a second attack... because he still doesn't have a choice (e.g. it's part of his only attack).

With Galvitar, I have 2 choices to make.  First, I choose Galvitar's full-action attack.  Then, because I have a choice from the beginning, I must choose which keyword that attack has, and I'm locked into that choice throughout the attack (e.g. can't change my mind after the "damage & effects" step).

What if Galvitar's keyword (or a similar attack with choice of "Doublestrike OR Sweeping") depended on a requirement, like the target having a Bleed token?  Then I'd have no choice (regular strike) until the "damage & effects" step, then a Bleed gets handed out and suddenly it gains a choice of keywords: either Doublestrike or Sweeping.  Since I didn't make the choice during the "declare attack" step, am I out of luck and stuck with a basic single attack?  Or since it just got activated, do I get to choose on the spot?  This would imply that it's advantageous to have an ability that only becomes active midway through an attack than the same ability that you had the whole time...

Another weird case would be an Enchantment like Debilitate but that turns off/on traits like Doublestrike or Sweeping.  If I lost and then gained Doublestrike or Sweeping midway through an attack through revealing and/or removing of Enchantments, then I might be able to gain the choice and switch to a Sweeping vs Doublstrike midway through the attack, compared to having to choose earlier in the attack and sticking with the decision.

As you can see, it gets weird if there's a double standard between abilities that become active "just in time to trigger" vs ones that you had the whole time but had to choose between way back in the "declare attack" step.
(Of course, for creatures and equipment with more than one different attack, I agree you choose which attack during the "declare attack" step; but Galvitar (and a few others) have an attack with a choice of traits for that attack, which is weird that the choice has to be made during "declare attack" when possible, but the traits (and potentially the choice) might change if the traits have some sort of delayed application.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 13, 2016, 01:25:41 PM
I can see where that can be confusing. I spend a lot of my time watching these exact sort of timing issues. It's something I try to check every time we have a new card.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on June 13, 2016, 02:14:40 PM
This is really exciting  ;D !!!

One thing I has to ask though is if these creatures will be unique (only 1 in the set) or are they common creatures (4 of each in the set) ? Same would be asked for the Knight of the Red Helm
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 13, 2016, 02:33:47 PM
  But I thought the rules were already pretty explicit that Vampirism only works for the first attack of an attack action anyway (including Double/Triplestrike and Battle Fury).  Perhaps we're getting a new ability (either on a creature or through an incantation/enchantment) that otherwise might allow multiple separate attack actions that could each benefit from conditions like Vampirism or Melee/Bloodthirsty +X enhancements, etc?
Counterstrikes.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 13, 2016, 02:50:37 PM
This is really exciting  ;D !!!

One thing I has to ask though is if these creatures will be unique (only 1 in the set) or are they common creatures (4 of each in the set) ? Same would be asked for the Knight of the Red Helm

No these are all at max copies (so 6 for level 1's and 4 for level 2 and higher). If something is Legendary or Unique you get fewer copies of that card.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 13, 2016, 02:51:14 PM
  But I thought the rules were already pretty explicit that Vampirism only works for the first attack of an attack action anyway (including Double/Triplestrike and Battle Fury).  Perhaps we're getting a new ability (either on a creature or through an incantation/enchantment) that otherwise might allow multiple separate attack actions that could each benefit from conditions like Vampirism or Melee/Bloodthirsty +X enhancements, etc?
Counterstrikes.

Of course!  Thanks.  Nothing to see here.   :-[
(Forgot that Counterstrikes would generally get those traits multiple times as long as you can keep putting Guard markers on your creature or reveal Retaliate or whatever).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on June 13, 2016, 05:09:30 PM
finally proper creatures for Sharkbait to use!  8)

Maybe we can name them Bruce, Anchor and Chum
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 13, 2016, 05:39:13 PM
Water Wizards are definitely happy.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 13, 2016, 05:47:43 PM
Water Wizards are definitely happy.

Even the Druid can use the level 1 Deptonnes on the cheap.  But she pays double for the Shaman who turns them into Vampire Sharks.

Interesting that a Deptonne Bloodshaman could pray to either a Temple of Asyra or Altar of Skulls...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 14, 2016, 03:16:49 AM
Water Wizards are definitely happy.

Yes, but they have no acces to spawnpoints and can (thank god) not use shallow sea.

On a sidenote: I just noticed that the tidecallers attack is a melee attack. I thought it was ranged with range (0,0)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: betercore on June 14, 2016, 10:26:23 AM
Will the Siren have a whirlwind spell which gives all sharks the flying trait?  8)

(http://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/sharknado__130803093919-e1375522806978.jpg)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on June 14, 2016, 01:55:26 PM
She is not student of Air school i guess :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 14, 2016, 02:33:36 PM
shallow sea.
QC Shallow Sea before activating Berserker and he will get to roll 4 dice twice even against initially undamaged opponent if he's lucky. I wonder if we'll see some curse giving tough+x or war blessing giving bonus to roll in this set to support this combo.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 14, 2016, 03:39:38 PM
Will the Siren have a whirlwind spell which gives all sharks the flying trait?  8)

(http://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/sharknado__130803093919-e1375522806978.jpg)

You can always cast eaglewings on one. Not sure why you'd want to though, since that takes it out of the water. It would be better if there was some way to give it flying temporarily, so it would return to the water afterwards.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 14, 2016, 03:59:32 PM
shallow sea.
QC Shallow Sea before activating Berserker and he will get to roll 4 dice twice even against initially undamaged opponent if he's lucky. I wonder if we'll see some curse giving tough+x or war blessing giving bonus to roll in this set to support this combo.

Keep in mind you only gain melee +1 on the first attack of an action.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 14, 2016, 05:12:01 PM
Like the Deptonnes. Feel that theyre very situational. Would be bad against necromancer and druid, no bleed chance. So wouldn't want to build a book around them.

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on June 14, 2016, 07:51:38 PM
melee +1 from shallow sea and then bloodthirsty +1 for the second attack (assuming bleed).  4 dice twice.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 14, 2016, 11:50:30 PM
Like the Deptonnes. Feel that theyre very situational. Would be bad against necromancer and druid, no bleed chance. So wouldn't want to build a book around them.
Necro isn't so bad matchup for them. They won't be distracted by their bloodthirsty trait so they can focus on enemy mage or guard when necessary.
Against Druid You will have to have plenty of Song of Courage. Fast, Charge+1 and can't be hindered for 3 turns.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 15, 2016, 02:47:06 AM
Bloodthirsty also works for plants.

melee +1 from shallow sea and then bloodthirsty +1 for the second attack (assuming bleed).  4 dice twice.

Laddinfance? Is this correct or is it 4+3?

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 15, 2016, 05:59:35 AM
Like the Deptonnes. Feel that theyre very situational. Would be bad against necromancer and druid, no bleed chance. So wouldn't want to build a book around them.
Necro isn't so bad matchup for them. They won't be distracted by their bloodthirsty trait so they can focus on enemy mage or guard when necessary.
Against Druid You will have to have plenty of Song of Courage. Fast, Charge+1 and can't be hindered for 3 turns.

I agree. They just won't be at their max effectivness.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on June 15, 2016, 10:54:06 AM
Bloodthirsty also works for plants.

melee +1 from shallow sea and then bloodthirsty +1 for the second attack (assuming bleed).  4 dice twice.

Laddinfance? Is this correct or is it 4+3?
Quote from: Complete Codex
Bloodthirsty +X (Object Trait)
This creature is a savage predator with a lust for blood. This creature
gains +X attack dice when it makes a melee attack against a Living
creature with 1 or more damage. If the attack makes multiple attacks
during the same attack action, it gains this bonus only for the first
attack it can make with this bonus
. If there is a damaged Living
enemy creature in the Bloodthirsty creature’s zone during its Action
Phase, it must melee attack that creature (if possible). If there is more
than one choice, or it has also been Taunted, it can choose which
creature to attack.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on June 15, 2016, 11:04:04 AM
Bloodthirsty also works for plants.

melee +1 from shallow sea and then bloodthirsty +1 for the second attack (assuming bleed).  4 dice twice.

Laddinfance? Is this correct or is it 4+3?
Quote from: Complete Codex
Bloodthirsty +X (Object Trait)
This creature is a savage predator with a lust for blood. This creature
gains +X attack dice when it makes a melee attack against a Living
creature with 1 or more damage. If the attack makes multiple attacks
during the same attack action, it gains this bonus only for the first
attack it can make with this bonus
. If there is a damaged Living
enemy creature in the Bloodthirsty creature’s zone during its Action
Phase, it must melee attack that creature (if possible). If there is more
than one choice, or it has also been Taunted, it can choose which
creature to attack.

Correct, but if the original target is at zero damage then the second attack the bezerker makes would get the bloodthirsty bonus.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 23, 2016, 11:36:32 AM
Check out this awesome skeletal pirate!

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-time-for-a-little-piracy)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 23, 2016, 12:09:59 PM
Check out this awesome skeletal pirate!

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-time-for-a-little-piracy)

This guy is going straight into my Domination Necromancer book. First question: Is a Sslak "inactive" (neutral orb guardian)?

And is there time to fix the typo? (Should be "affect", not "effect")
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 23, 2016, 12:32:07 PM
Sslak that aren't controlled aren't active or inactive, they're just there.

And no, there is not time to fix the typo, but thank you for noting it.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 01:11:42 PM
Will the siren be paying 7 sbp for this awesome doer of death?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 23, 2016, 01:18:40 PM
Will the siren be paying 7 sbp for this awesome doer of death?

No.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 01:21:14 PM
Oh, so she's either trained in dark or one of his subtypes?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on June 23, 2016, 02:07:17 PM
Fun card really adds even more nasty creatures to Siren. Not sure how I feel about the huge cost to put  the undead pirate in the book but he might be fun buddy build for the Siren or even a necromancer.  This expansion seems to have multiple play styles included in for each Mage which I appreciate.  it also gets better and better every time a new card is released, can't wait!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 02:21:42 PM
Fun card really adds even more nasty creatures to Siren. Not sure how I feel about the huge cost to put  the undead pirate in the book but he might be fun buddy build for the Siren or even a necromancer.  This expansion seems to have multiple play styles included in for each Mage which I appreciate.  it also gets better and better every time a new card is released, can't wait!

We already know she's trained in at least one level of dark or one of his subtypes. So he's costing less than 7 sbp.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on June 23, 2016, 03:18:31 PM
Fun card really adds even more nasty creatures to Siren. Not sure how I feel about the huge cost to put  the undead pirate in the book but he might be fun buddy build for the Siren or even a necromancer.  This expansion seems to have multiple play styles included in for each Mage which I appreciate.  it also gets better and better every time a new card is released, can't wait!

We already know she's trained in at least one level of dark or one of his subtypes. So he's costing less than 7 sbp.

My guess is water/dark lv1?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 03:43:08 PM
I agree. But then she might be a little to powerful, with kind of two full trainings taking songs into account. I'm also worried about pladin, if he's trained in holy and war, he might be OP.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 03:45:39 PM
Also, from what we know of sirens call and Greek myths, it would seem she would be trained in some level of mind.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 23, 2016, 03:59:53 PM
my guess:

1) Full water: so everything with at least 1 level of water
2) songs.

In other words, the pirate is 4.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 04:29:16 PM
That means she super powerful. The promo war/water pirate is in the same boat as this new spoiler. Also, Laddin, if there is such a card, can the next spoiler be a new water attack spell or creature. Talking creatures, maybe the croc or kracken?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on June 23, 2016, 05:02:18 PM
Oops did not see the prior posts.  My guess it's maybe another subtype.  So my guess it's not dark school but maybe pirate subtype to go along with water themed.  Similar to her being trained in song subtype spells!

Full water school
Song sub type
Pirate subtype
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
Oops did not see the prior posts.  My guess it's maybe another subtype.  So my guess it's not dark school but maybe pirate subtype to go along with water themed.  Similar to her being trained in song subtype spells!

Full water school
Song sub type
Pirate subtype

Thing is, every seems to be forgetting that the siren seems likely to be trained in mind. Think of Greek myths.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on June 23, 2016, 05:30:57 PM
A Rot and Bleed Skeleton! Rejoice!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on June 23, 2016, 05:49:36 PM
Oops did not see the prior posts.  My guess it's maybe another subtype.  So my guess it's not dark school but maybe pirate subtype to go along with water themed.  Similar to her being trained in song subtype spells!

Full water school
Song sub type
Pirate subtype

Thing is, every seems to be forgetting that the siren seems likely to be trained in mind. Think of Greek myths.
I would love to see her being trained in mind considering her mythological roots.  I don't see it breaking the game if she is fully trained in the mind school either.  However I feel her being trained in the song subtype maybe reflects the designer's decision not to go in that direction since it could easily be used in mind trickery.   With that being said I think we will see a ton of mind school spells in this expansion, but again maybe they are closely linked to the  song subtype.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 23, 2016, 06:03:32 PM
I totally agree. I feel that you cant call her a siren without being trained in some level of mind. I agree with the song mechanic, but so far we havent seen any "siren" esque songs.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on June 24, 2016, 01:56:26 AM
A Siren would not be good in force push/hold/... I could see her being able to use mind control however. I think farkas will be correct and the luring/mind games will be represented in the songs.

That means she super powerful. The promo war/water pirate is in the same boat as this new spoiler. Also, Laddin, if there is such a card, can the next spoiler be a new water attack spell or creature. Talking creatures, maybe the croc or kracken?

Why would that make her super powerfull? You seem to forget that the water school is a minor school of magic. compensating her training would not add many cards this way.

- That promo war pirate
- rain
- raincloud
- the previous spoiler
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 24, 2016, 07:13:29 AM
I agree with the specific kind of mind spells she would use. I overstated, she would have acsess to a fair amount of spells if she has training in anything water.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on June 26, 2016, 03:00:43 PM
With undead pirates joining the Mage wars universe, will there be a chance we see a pirate ship conjuration?!?!?

If we can have bone dragons and giant earth golems I hope this is a posibility.  I don't know how viable a ghost pirate ship would be, but I think it will be pretty sweet to play one against an opponent!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Biblofilter on June 26, 2016, 09:58:43 PM
The Flying Dutchman ?  :P
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on June 29, 2016, 09:59:09 AM
New Spoiler today!

Check it out >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-the-archangels-temple)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 29, 2016, 10:16:01 AM
Wow just wow. The artwork is through the roof. I can imagine the priest using this in combination with the new attack spell.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on June 29, 2016, 10:22:44 AM
Wow just wow. The artwork is through the roof. I can imagine the priest using this in combination with the new attack spell.

Or just with his trusty Staff of Asyra and Temple of Light.  Probably a good idea to surround it with Wall of Pikes to ensure it has LoS to a Target.

Cards like this might cause players to run Cloak of Shadows/Rolling Fog, etc, more often.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on June 29, 2016, 10:27:00 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Knabb master on June 29, 2016, 11:04:53 AM
If you just make two holy attacks per round its 5 mana for 2 dice, 1/3 to daze and 1/3 to stun. And that is not very hard to do but one could also do more than just two attacks. So it seems to be ok...  ;D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 04, 2016, 11:24:49 AM
This thread is going to contain links to all the spoilers for PVS.

5/11/2016
Temple High Guard (and surprise) (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoilier-temple-high-guard)

5/18/2016
From the Banks of Lake Michigan (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-from-the-banks-of-lake-michigan)

5/23/2016
Luminous Blast (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-luminous-blast)

5/27/2016
The Runner Up (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-the-runner-up)

5/30/2016
Terra Incognito (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-terra-incognito)

6/1/2016
Name that Tune! (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-name-that-tune)

6/3/2016
Voice of the Sea (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-voice-of-the-sea)

6/7/2016
Knight of the Red Helm (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-knight-of-the-red-helm)

6/13/2016
You're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat... (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-youre-gonna-need-a-bigger-boat)

6/23/2016
Time for a Little Piracy (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-time-for-a-little-piracy)

6/29/2016
The Archangel's Temple (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-the-archangels-temple)

7/4/2016
Independence Day (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-independence-day)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 04, 2016, 11:25:29 AM
As promised, today's update is a big deal.

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-independence-day)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 04, 2016, 11:30:06 AM
As promised, today's update is a big deal.

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-independence-day)

Does the Siren really have Melee +2 from her own Siren's Call ability (friendly aquatic creatures have Melee +2)?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 04, 2016, 11:32:34 AM
The Siren can only use Siren's call on a single creature. If that creature is a friendly aquatic creature then it gets Melee +2. Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 11:35:34 AM
So it can be used on video friendly or enemy creatures? Anyway, the siren has the worst base stats of any mage in the game, by her abilities and other cards should make up for it. The paladin's aura's ar really cool, they give a lot of versatility. Also if a card if war mage only can he use it?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 04, 2016, 11:39:43 AM
The Paladin can use any level 1 or 2 War Mage Only card. Anything higher and he cannot, it's just like the Druid.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 11:56:59 AM
OK. Also, is the siren going to have any life ir channel specific buffs? Because along with the druid, she has the worst base stats in the game.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: jacksmack on July 04, 2016, 12:04:00 PM
The paladin is DA BOMB!!!! are you kidding me?

Cant wait to play him!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 12:11:21 PM
The paladin is DA BOMB!!!! are you kidding me?

Cant wait to play him!

He he looks amazing.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 04, 2016, 12:14:25 PM
Because of the wizard's choice of elemental training, there are effectively four wizards.

Because of the Paladin's choice of auras, there are effectively eight Paladins. EIGHT! :o

If you include all four wizards, the core set has 7 mages. If you include all 8 Paladins, Paladin vs Siren has 9 mages!

I WILL get this set. Definitely.

Also, it just occurred to me that if you count the wizard as four different mages, then there are currently 15 arena mages, not just 12, which would mean that wizards are a fifth of all the mages, so that might account for the wizard's higher win-ratio to some extent.

9+15=24. Paladins will be one-third of all the mages. Just a heads up before people start saying the paladin is OP because he wins so much. The paladin is more than one mage, just like the wizard.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 12:19:07 PM
Because of the wizard's choice of elemental training, there are effectively four wizards.

Because of the Paladin's choice of auras, there are effectively eight Paladins. EIGHT! :o

If you include all four wizards, the core set has 7 mages. If you include all 8 Paladins, Paladin vs Siren has 9 mages!

I WILL get this set. Definitely.

Also, it just occurred to me that if you count the wizard as four different mages, then there are currently 15 arena mages, not just 12, which would mean that wizards are a fifth of all the mages, so that might account for the wizard's higher win-ratio to some extent.

9+15=24. Paladins will be one-third of all the mages. Just a heads up before people start saying the paladin is OP because he wins so much. The paladin is more than one mage, just like the wizard.

That's true. However, the choice of aura is probably decided in game depending on the opponent.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 04, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
Because of the wizard's choice of elemental training, there are effectively four wizards.

Because of the Paladin's choice of auras, there are effectively eight Paladins. EIGHT! :o

If you include all four wizards, the core set has 7 mages. If you include all 8 Paladins, Paladin vs Siren has 9 mages!

I WILL get this set. Definitely.

Also, it just occurred to me that if you count the wizard as four different mages, then there are currently 15 arena mages, not just 12, which would mean that wizards are a fifth of all the mages, so that might account for the wizard's higher win-ratio to some extent.

9+15=24. Paladins will be one-third of all the mages. Just a heads up before people start saying the paladin is OP because he wins so much. The paladin is more than one mage, just like the wizard.

That's true. However, the choice of aura is probably decided in game depending on the opponent.

Yes, but you have to build your spellbook to support it. More versatile builds might plan different strategies in different matchups of course, but most good paladin books probably won't plan to use ALL the auras in some matchup or another. Maybe some paladins will have some auras they always pick, and some auras where they choose based on matchup. So there are 8 paladins, but you can effectively choose which paladin ability card you're using in the middle of the game depending on the opponent. Even though the difference between each Paladin ability set varies only a little bit by a couple different aura choices, that is still pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 12:27:47 PM
Agree. Like vs Necro, the poison removed aura will be a big help.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 12:31:11 PM
Why is resolute aura worded the way it is. Do all creatures get tough and melee?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 04, 2016, 12:35:17 PM
Why is resolute aura worded the way it is. Do all creatures get tough and melee?

It is worded that way so the paladin only gains the tough aspect and not the additional armor

Other friendly creatures gain tough and armor aspects
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 04, 2016, 12:37:07 PM
The Siren can only use Siren's call on a single creature. If that creature is a friendly aquatic creature then it gets Melee +2. Sorry for the confusion.

Ohhhhh... So a friendly aquatic creature with the Siren's Call marker on it gains Melee +2.  I thought ALL aquatic creatures gain Melee +2 as an afterthought.  Like, "Oh, and by the way, friendly aquatic creatures also gain Melee +2."

Still, it makes for an interesting solo option for the Siren: Buff herself up and give herself an additional Melee +2 every round, like a 1-mana Power Strike that doesn't cost an action.  It would also seem to prevent her succumbing to a Reverse Attack, since she wouldn't be allowed to attack herself (?). Combine that with Regenerate 1 as long as she's in an aquatic zone, and she's a very solid solo mage.
*edit* Forgot about the "non-Mage" aspect of Siren's Call, since I was so caught up with "all" friendly aquatic creatures getting that melee bonus (which they don't).  Nothing to see here; move along.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 12:47:56 PM
She can only place the marker on a non mage creature.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 04, 2016, 12:50:31 PM
The Siren can only use Siren's call on a single creature. If that creature is a friendly aquatic creature then it gets Melee +2. Sorry for the confusion.

 It would also seem to prevent her succumbing to a Reverse Attack, since she wouldn't be allowed to attack herself (?).


Reverse attack only changes the target for the next two steps, Roll and Damage / effects. Those steps don't check for target legality so I think (?) she still hits herself in the face, but that is more Zuberi's department (lol :P ) and will defer to his interpretation.

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Tyrnan on July 04, 2016, 12:51:11 PM
Still, it makes for an interesting solo option for the Siren: Buff herself up and give herself an additional Melee +2 every round, like a 1-mana Power Strike that doesn't cost an action.  It would also seem to prevent her succumbing to a Reverse Attack, since she wouldn't be allowed to attack herself (?).  Combine that with Regenerate 1 as long as she's in an aquatic zone, and she's a very solid solo mage.
I think you overlooked the fact, that the call can only target non-mage creatures, though :(

Edit: sorry Reddicediaries, overlooked your post ... you were first :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 04, 2016, 12:52:24 PM
As for the Paladin, I find it interesting that he seems really good at fielding a Goblin swarm.  Although it will depend what his Spawnpoint restricts (if he has one).  Either of the middle auras (melee +1/piercing +2 or tough -2/armor +2) seem really good on a cheap Goblin swarm... although he could just as easily run Temple Sentries.

By the way, is it just me or does it seem reasonably easy to make the Chivalrous Challenge somewhat unchivalrous / asymmetric: just have a creature (perhaps Knight of the Red Helm) Guard to prevent the "challenged" creature from attacking your Paladin (assuming it isn't Elusive... which reminds me, I hope Victorian Griffin is included in this set! See below), then attack that creature with your Paladin. If it's the "strongest" creature, then gain 2 Valor! (e.g. 1 for the Paladin attacking it, and 1 for it not attacking your Paladin)

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2214965.png)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 04, 2016, 12:53:30 PM
Still, it makes for an interesting solo option for the Siren: Buff herself up and give herself an additional Melee +2 every round, like a 1-mana Power Strike that doesn't cost an action.  It would also seem to prevent her succumbing to a Reverse Attack, since she wouldn't be allowed to attack herself (?).  Combine that with Regenerate 1 as long as she's in an aquatic zone, and she's a very solid solo mage.
I think you overlooked the fact, that the call can only target non-mage creatures, though :(

Hypothetically it is still a good question.

But yes it goes on other non-mages

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on July 04, 2016, 12:54:54 PM
Yes!

Thanks Aaron for the post.  This is a lot to think about.  Both of them are extremely cool mages...can't wait to try out!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 12:57:36 PM
No apology necessary.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 04, 2016, 01:03:27 PM
As for the Paladin, I find it interesting that he seems really good at fielding a Goblin swarm.  Although it will depend what his Spawnpoint restricts (if he has one).  Either of the middle auras (melee +1/piercing +2 or tough -2/armor +2) seem really good on a cheap Goblin swarm... although he could just as easily run Temple Sentries.

By the way, is it just me or does it seem reasonably easy to make the Chivalrous Challenge somewhat unchivalrous / asymmetric: just have a creature Guard to prevent the "challenged" creature from attacking your Paladin - assuming it isn't Elusive... which reminds me, I hope Victorian Griffin is included in this set!

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2214965.png)

Well technically since all non-legendary creatures are just mana constructs, your mage is really having indirect honor duels with the enemy mage... ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 01:04:17 PM
The siren seems to be a counter to buddy builds. Maybe mind shield will see some use. Also, KRH is a he first job zombie, jelly, golem, or level 8 creature to have phycic immunity.

Sirens not trained in mind control& :(
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 01:08:00 PM
The paladin also has a ton of flexibility. He can go cheap war creatures, essentially spamming goblins and buffing them. He could go the route of big tank. Or he could have 1-2 buddies and buffs them. These are just some of the possibilities.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 04, 2016, 01:11:48 PM
The paladin also has a ton of flexibility. He can go cheap war creatures, essentially spamming goblins and buffing them. He could go the route of big tank. Or he could have 1-2 buddies and buffs them. These are just some of the possibilities.

Wait till you see the rest of his bag. It gets better
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 01:15:55 PM
The paladin also has a ton of flexibility. He can go cheap war creatures, essentially spamming goblins and buffing them. He could go the route of big tank. Or he could have 1-2 buddies and buffs them. These are just some of the possibilities.

Wait till you see the rest of his bag. It gets better

Uh oh!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 01:16:43 PM
As for the Paladin, I find it interesting that he seems really good at fielding a Goblin swarm.  Although it will depend what his Spawnpoint restricts (if he has one).  Either of the middle auras (melee +1/piercing +2 or tough -2/armor +2) seem really good on a cheap Goblin swarm... although he could just as easily run Temple Sentries.

By the way, is it just me or does it seem reasonably easy to make the Chivalrous Challenge somewhat unchivalrous / asymmetric: just have a creature Guard to prevent the "challenged" creature from attacking your Paladin - assuming it isn't Elusive... which reminds me, I hope Victorian Griffin is included in this set!

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2214965.png)

He dies have the temple of asyra.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 04, 2016, 01:50:34 PM
He dies have the temple of asyra.

Nice.  I checked Barracks and saw it's "Warlord only" but then didn't bother to check the Temple of Asrya as I assumed it was "Priest(ess) only."  But it's "Holy Mage only" and level 3, so that's right in the Paladin's wheelhouse!

Unfortunately, that means he isn't so great at spawning hordes of Goblins... which is good from a thematic perspective at least.  Temple Sentries and Disciples of Radiance would probably be easier for him to swarm with.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 04, 2016, 03:05:23 PM
Awesome spoiler!
Paladin freakin rocks. Having training in Harshforge Plate and Armor Ward is pretty sweet. For all you OCTGN players he is also trained in Ballista (a fun promo card for non-octgn people)!! Something about Ballista with Temple of Light sounds like a fun combo to me   :P

Siren with Shallow Sea is amazing. You can get shallow sea, call an enemy creature into it (give it melee -1) and have your shark people (or any other aquatic creature like the siren) get melee +1. 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 03:07:30 PM
Awesome spoiler!
Paladin freakin rocks. Having training in Harshforge Plate and Armor Ward is pretty sweet. For all you OCTGN players he is also trained in Ballista (a fun promo card for non-octgn people)!! Something about Ballista with Temple of Light sounds like a fun combo to me   :P

Siren with Shallow Sea is amazing. You can get shallow sea, call an enemy creature into it (give it melee -1) and have your shark people (or any other aquatic creature like the siren) get melee +1.

Hadn't thought out that, good point! Yeah, balliata temple of light, malikias Halifax will make a deadly combo.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 03:09:10 PM
Awesome spoiler!
Paladin freakin rocks. Having training in Harshforge Plate and Armor Ward is pretty sweet. For all you OCTGN players he is also trained in Ballista (a fun promo card for non-octgn people)!! Something about Ballista with Temple of Light sounds like a fun combo to me   :P

Siren with Shallow Sea is amazing. You can get shallow sea, call an enemy creature into it (give it melee -1) and have your shark people (or any other aquatic creature like the siren) get melee +1.

Hadn't thought out that, good point! Yeah, balliata temple of light, malikias Halifax will make a deadly combo.
sorry for the typos, typing on my phone while in a rocking car isn't easy.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on July 04, 2016, 03:19:48 PM
Still, it makes for an interesting solo option for the Siren: Buff herself up and give herself an additional Melee +2 every round, like a 1-mana Power Strike that doesn't cost an action.  It would also seem to prevent her succumbing to a Reverse Attack, since she wouldn't be allowed to attack herself (?).  Combine that with Regenerate 1 as long as she's in an aquatic zone, and she's a very solid solo mage.
I think you overlooked the fact, that the call can only target non-mage creatures, though :(
Hypothetically it is still a good question.

If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if you reveal a Reverse Attack on a creature that is not allowed to attack itself, what happens. This is covered in the rules supplement.

Quote from: Rules Supplement page 44
When this creature is attacked, you must reveal Reverse Attack during the Avoid Attack Step. The attack is avoided and then redirected back; this creature becomes the new source (although the attacker stays the same), and the original source becomes the new target (even if the original source would not normally be a legal target), for the next 2 steps (Roll Dice and Damage and Effects). Then, destroy Reverse Attack. If the attack is Unavoidable, destroy Reverse Attack without effect.
Hypothetically it is still a good question.

But yes it goes on other non-mages

Emphasis is mine. Even if the attacker is not normally a legal target for the attack, Reverse Attack still functions. So the creature would still hit itself. Some other pertinent examples include:

1. Wizard's Tower casting a Devil's Trident and getting it reversed back.
2. Thoughtspore casting a Surging Wave and getting it reversed back.

Both are examples of where the attacker would not normally be a legal target, but are still subjected to the attack when Reverse Attack is used.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 04, 2016, 03:21:15 PM
Still, it makes for an interesting solo option for the Siren: Buff herself up and give herself an additional Melee +2 every round, like a 1-mana Power Strike that doesn't cost an action.  It would also seem to prevent her succumbing to a Reverse Attack, since she wouldn't be allowed to attack herself (?).  Combine that with Regenerate 1 as long as she's in an aquatic zone, and she's a very solid solo mage.
I think you overlooked the fact, that the call can only target non-mage creatures, though :(
Hypothetically it is still a good question.

If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if you reveal a Reverse Attack on a creature that is not allowed to attack itself, what happens. This is covered in the rules supplement.

Quote from: Rules Supplement page 44
When this creature is attacked, you must reveal Reverse Attack during the Avoid Attack Step. The attack is avoided and then redirected back; this creature becomes the new source (although the attacker stays the same), and the original source becomes the new target (even if the original source would not normally be a legal target), for the next 2 steps (Roll Dice and Damage and Effects). Then, destroy Reverse Attack. If the attack is Unavoidable, destroy Reverse Attack without effect.
Hypothetically it is still a good question.

But yes it goes on other non-mages

Emphasis is mine. Even if the attacker is not normally a legal target for the attack, Reverse Attack still functions. So the creature would still hit itself. Some other pertinent examples include:

1. Wizard's Tower casting a Devil's Trident and getting it reversed back.
2. Thoughtspore casting a Surging Wave and getting it reversed back.

Both are examples of where the attacker would not normally be a legal target, but are still subjected to the attack when Reverse Attack is used.

Surging Wave is unavoidable so can't be reversed.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on July 04, 2016, 03:22:34 PM
That's true. I was just scrambling for examples really quick and didn't pay close enough attention.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on July 04, 2016, 03:22:44 PM
Here's a nasty combo that can come into play for Paladin. Temple of Asyra with Clerics to add mana, then an Altar of Carnage as you spam out Archers, Knights, Defenders, adding even more mana and you can really ramp up a swarm.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 04, 2016, 03:51:47 PM
Did you check clerics of Academy Priestess? :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 03:52:56 PM
Did you check clerics of Academy Priestess? :)
You mean the lightsaber ladies?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 04, 2016, 04:09:59 PM
Yup, them!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on July 04, 2016, 04:11:34 PM
Are they clerics & soldiers?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 04:19:48 PM
just clerics.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 04, 2016, 06:54:56 PM
The paladin also has a ton of flexibility. He can go cheap war creatures, essentially spamming goblins and buffing them. He could go the route of big tank. Or he could have 1-2 buddies and buffs them. These are just some of the possibilities.

Wait till you see the rest of his bag. It gets better

So which bit of his kit do you think I should reveal next?

As to others asking about the Siren, her abilities really help her milk the most out of her cards. She's been really solid in testing. To quote Han Solo, "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 07:10:59 PM
Maybe reveal a high level angel or new spawnpoint (if there is one) One will the next spoiler be released?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 04, 2016, 07:12:21 PM
Maybe reveal a high level angel or new spawnpoint (if there is one) One will the next spoiler be released?

The Paladin's spawnpoint is pretty dang interesting. I'm not sure when the next spoiler will come out, but it will be this week by the end of day on Friday, if not sooner.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 04, 2016, 07:25:13 PM
OK. Also, is the siren going to have any life ir channel specific buffs? Because along with the druid, she has the worst base stats in the game.

While both Druid and Siren each have their significant disadvantages, they also have their own advantages themselves:

While both have a limited amount of play that can be used, they are significantly different compared to the other mages. The Siren is trained in a school of Water that hasn't been approached properly yet {until now} by the games developers, while the Druid is also specialized in plants that offer a unique change to original gameplay.

While I do agree that those stats help demonstrate the uneasiness surrounding the Siren's battle strength, her unique abilities/units will help the Siren's cause greatly.

The only part I am truly afraid of is what they will do with her harpoon. I'm just hoping they won't pull off an Anvil Throne Warlord where they didn't put the axe card in the set. Even though her harpoon might have simple powers, it would be nice to see her have an actual weapon that has some sort of important effect.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on July 04, 2016, 07:31:41 PM
I second reveal of Paladin spawn point!  Curious to see what types of units or uniqueness the spawn point will produce!

Maybe reveal a high level angel or new spawnpoint (if there is one) One will the next spoiler be released?

The Paladin's spawnpoint is pretty dang interesting. I'm not sure when the next spoiler will come out, but it will be this week by the end of day on Friday, if not sooner.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 07:34:11 PM
Maybe reveal a high level angel or new spawnpoint (if there is one) One will the next spoiler be released?

The Paladin's spawnpoint is pretty dang interesting. I'm not sure when the next spoiler will come out, but it will be this week by the end of day on Friday, if not sooner.
Is it war, holy, or both? Also, Laddin, do you mind if you start another poll or something. I can allready see many different opions forming and it will be great to hear everyone's thoughts.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on July 04, 2016, 07:52:45 PM
If the Paladin has their own Spawnpoint, would they be allowed to have both that and the Temple to allow one to build mana while the other deploys...might make an interesting strategy.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 07:53:17 PM
If the Paladin has their own Spawnpoint, would they be allowed to have both that and the Temple to allow one to build mana while the other deploys...might make an interesting strategy.

Indeed
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 04, 2016, 08:19:02 PM
The Paladin's spawnpoint is easily the most unique one in the game. I may set up a poll, but right now I'm looking though the options, now that you've seen the ability card.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 04, 2016, 08:23:02 PM
The Paladin's spawnpoint is easily the most unique one in the game. I may set up a poll, but right now I'm looking though the options, now that you've seen the ability card.
Oh, so many options! Maybe it can summon Holy and War (to a degree)!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 04, 2016, 11:13:37 PM
I am so stoked about both mages. I can't wait to start building books for them both. I see myself leaning towards Siren more.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on July 04, 2016, 11:32:13 PM
If the Paladin has their own Spawnpoint, would they be allowed to have both that and the Temple to allow one to build mana while the other deploys...might make an interesting strategy.

Indeed

Nothing in the rules prevents you from having more than one spawnpoint, nor from deploying from multiple spawnpoints. For example, a Priestess could have Temple of Asyra and Battle Forge and deploy from both in the same round. So, yes the Paladin could use multiple spawnpoints.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Bluebaron on July 05, 2016, 02:45:18 AM
Great spoilers. I can totally imagine that the siren rocks. For the paladin however I am a little sceptical. But maybe I first have to see more out of his arsenal. Therefore I would love to see the paladin's spawnpoint as the next spoiler. Or any other card that helps me to unterstand the powers of the paladin better.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 05, 2016, 08:22:52 AM
Great spoilers. I can totally imagine that the siren rocks. For the paladin however I am a little sceptical. But maybe I first have to see more out of his arsenal. Therefore I would love to see the paladin's spawnpoint as the next spoiler. Or any other card that helps me to unterstand the powers of the paladin better.
Why do you think he's not on par with th to the other mages? He has some much versatility.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 05, 2016, 08:40:05 AM
Also, I just noticed that the siren isn't opposed to any school. This is slightly concerning.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Bluebaron on July 05, 2016, 08:57:32 AM
Great spoilers. I can totally imagine that the siren rocks. For the paladin however I am a little sceptical. But maybe I first have to see more out of his arsenal. Therefore I would love to see the paladin's spawnpoint as the next spoiler. Or any other card that helps me to unterstand the powers of the paladin better.
Why do you think he's not on par with th to the other mages? He has some much versatility.

I am a little bit worried about his special abilities. Their use appear very situational to me. The auras only work in the zone of the paladin. They seem also very expensive (6 and 8 valor) for what they do. Retribution aura for example. How often in a game will you profit from this aura.? Also he only has 9 channeling. I don't hope we are getting another bloodwave warlord here. But I think it is far too early to come to that conclusion. I really love the combinations of schools he is trained in. Nice twist from what we have seen so far from other mages.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 05, 2016, 09:10:29 AM
I am a little bit worried about his special abilities. Their use appear very situational to me. The auras only work in the zone of the paladin. They seem also very expensive (6 and 8 valor) for what they do. Retribution aura for example. How often in a game will you profit from this aura.? Also he only has 9 channeling. I don't hope we are getting another bloodwave warlord here. But I think it is far too early to come to that conclusion. I really love the combinations of schools he is trained in. Nice twist from what we have seen so far from other mages.

I assume we haven't seen all the ways he can gain Valor (e.g. perhaps he has equipment or enchantments that let him gain Valor among other benefits).  As for channeling 9, most mages have channeling 9, so...

Also, I just noticed that the siren isn't opposed to any school. This is slightly concerning.

That is interesting.  As far as training goes, she's generally worse than the Wizard, who can be trained in Water + Arcane (vs. Water + spells with Pirate and Song subtypes for the Siren), assuming there are fewer and less flexible Pirate and Song spells than Arcane spells.  That said, she has a conditional Regenerate 1, which is roughly on par with the Wizard's Voltaric Shield in terms of having a built-in protection that is pretty easy to activate (although the Siren's is conditional on having Aquatic terrain, which can be replaced with other terrain; it's kind of like the Druid's Treebond ability).  Her Siren's Call ability is also conditional, as it requires your opponent to provide you with a non-Psychic Immune creature within 2 zones OR a friendly Aquatic creature to give Melee +2 that can't stray very far from her side.  So I see her more like the Druid or Forcemaster, who each have powerful abilities but they tend to be dependent on other things or force you into particular strategies and restrict flexibility - so there's something she happens to be really good at, but isn't particularly flexible.

So... I see her as being similar to the Druid in terms of having conditional abilities that provide protection (regeneration) and board control (Druid's vines vs Siren's call).  But yes, it is a little surprising that the Siren has no triple-cost school.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 06, 2016, 10:12:45 AM
Today is A Call to Arms (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-call-to-arms)! Check it out.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 06, 2016, 10:29:46 AM
Wow I'm loving it  ;D

Seems like a very good gamble to take, but I think that the Paladin is going to be an absolute monster on the game board
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 06, 2016, 11:02:52 AM
Hmm .. Altar of Carnage can be used to pump mana into the Banner, but would it be worth it? Maybe if you plopped them both down right before an offensive with a few soldiers that you can then turn into a blitz with two holy creatures? Oh! I just realized that the Paladin is the only mage who can use Altar of Carnage to pump mana into Temple of Asyra.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ganpot on July 06, 2016, 01:01:12 PM
The Paladin's level 2 training in War surprises me a bit.  I figured thematically he would be a more even balance of holy and war (3 each).  But that's a minor issue, and I can understand why Arcane Wonders would want to avoid that for balance reasons. 

However, I am worried about the Siren.  She is the first mage to have 0 training in any primary school.  That is a HUGE deal.  There are exactly 8 existing cards in the Water school (not counting promos).  Of those cards, only the Elemental Wand is higher than level one in Water, and two of the other cards (Raincloud and Renewing Rain) are comprised of more than just the Water school.  I can understand not giving her full Mind school access, but I really think she deserved training in the psychic sub-type. 

So, what does she get to make up for this extremely limited card pool?  Training in pirates and songs.  Songs are a completely new sub-type of card (so this is a blind guess), but I can't imagine more than 2-3 songs per primary school.  That leaves pirates.  I can think of only a handful of non-creature pirate cards (including a pirate ship conjuration of some sort).  Even if the Paladin vs Siren expansion consists of 75% Water, Song, and Pirate cards, I don't think the Siren will have an adequate card pool compared to other mages (especially the Paladin, who will have access to the majority of both the War and Holy schools).  Every other mage in the game has in-school cards from multiple expansions to work with at this point.  But even if the Siren does start out with a competitive card pool, how exactly are Arcane Wonders going to keep expanding it so that it stays competitive?  Are they going to keep adding Water school cards just for the Siren with every future expansion after this? 

Furthermore, the Siren controlling pirates doesn't make a whole lot of sense thematically (at least to me).  In real-life myths Sirens were hated and feared by pirates and sailors, not seen as allies (that tends to happen when you are supposedly responsible for tons of shipwrecks).  Pairing them up is kind of like giving the Druid training in Fire because forest fires sweep through tons of forests all the time in real life.  Sure, there's a connection, but it's not a logical pairing.  Grouping up pirates and the Siren also means we won't be getting a Pirate mage (War & Water) in the future, which I think is a missed opportunity. 

On top of that, she possesses 9 channeling while two of her abilities require mana to use.  The closest comparison to this is the Wizard, who also needs mana for his abilities but possesses 10 channeling.  I get the feeling that the Siren is going to be mana-starved very frequently.  Her third ability (regenerate 1 when in water) is decent but situational (Teleport might be a very good counter to her).  Lastly, there's the issue of her health.  She is tied for last place at 30 health with the Druid (a mage who realistically has 10 channeling so long as her chosen tree is alive). 

So to summarize: the Siren will probably have a more limited natural card pool compared to other mages, leading to less efficient spellpoint usage.  She has low channeling combined with mana-intensive abilities.  And she is also one of the most frail mages to date.  I want to love her, but at this point I remain thoroughly unconvinced. 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 06, 2016, 01:31:13 PM
The Paladin's level 2 training in War surprises me a bit.  I figured thematically he would be a more even balance of holy and war (3 each).  But that's a minor issue, and I can understand why Arcane Wonders would want to avoid that for balance reasons. 

However, I am worried about the Siren.  She is the first mage to have 0 training in any primary school.  That is a HUGE deal.  There are exactly 8 existing cards in the Water school (not counting promos).  Of those cards, only the Elemental Wand is higher than level one in Water, and two of the other cards (Raincloud and Renewing Rain) are comprised of more than just the Water school.  I can understand not giving her full Mind school access, but I really think she deserved training in the psychic sub-type. 

So, what does she get to make up for this extremely limited card pool?  Training in pirates and songs.  Songs are a completely new sub-type of card (so this is a blind guess), but I can't imagine more than 2-3 songs per primary school.  That leaves pirates.  I can think of only a handful of non-creature pirate cards (including a pirate ship conjuration of some sort).  Even if the Paladin vs Siren expansion consists of 75% Water, Song, and Pirate cards, I don't think the Siren will have an adequate card pool compared to other mages (especially the Paladin, who will have access to the majority of both the War and Holy schools).  Every other mage in the game has in-school cards from multiple expansions to work with at this point.  But even if the Siren does start out with a competitive card pool, how exactly are Arcane Wonders going to keep expanding it so that it stays competitive?  Are they going to keep adding Water school cards just for the Siren with every future expansion after this? 

Furthermore, the Siren controlling pirates doesn't make a whole lot of sense thematically (at least to me).  In real-life myths Sirens were hated and feared by pirates and sailors, not seen as allies (that tends to happen when you are supposedly responsible for tons of shipwrecks).  Pairing them up is kind of like giving the Druid training in Fire because forest fires sweep through tons of forests all the time in real life.  Sure, there's a connection, but it's not a logical pairing.  Grouping up pirates and the Siren also means we won't be getting a Pirate mage (War & Water) in the future, which I think is a missed opportunity. 

On top of that, she possesses 9 channeling while two of her abilities require mana to use.  The closest comparison to this is the Wizard, who also needs mana for his abilities but possesses 10 channeling.  I get the feeling that the Siren is going to be mana-starved very frequently.  Her third ability (regenerate 1 when in water) is decent but situational (Teleport might be a very good counter to her).  Lastly, there's the issue of her health.  She is tied for last place at 30 health with the Druid (a mage who realistically has 10 channeling so long as her chosen tree is alive). 

So to summarize: the Siren will probably have a more limited natural card pool compared to other mages, leading to less efficient spellpoint usage.  She has low channeling combined with mana-intensive abilities.  And she is also one of the most frail mages to date.  I want to love her, but at this point I remain thoroughly unconvinced.

Unless you've seen the whole set (which I haven't), there are a lot of assumptions here.

Training in Water provides access to some of the most commonly used utility spells, namely Dissolve/Crumble, Rust, Acid Ball and Surging Wave.  Yes, the Druid also has access to those PLUS the entire Nature school, but it's also one of the main reasons Wizard just lost the ability to choose Water as his second school of training.  And just like every other school, there's no reason Arcane Wonders can't include new Water spells (or Pirate or Song, for that matter) in future expansions.  There is almost always a new good card for every existing mage in every expansion thereafter (except maybe the Academy expansions; they tend to be more focused on one mage type, although Tangleroot and Slumber are exceptions).

Next, there are about to be a TON of water-school spells.  Have you been following the spoilers?  This is the expansion where Water shows up in force.  And some day we might see Frost damage type become a thing, which would also presumably fall within the Water school (although I guess it could be Nature, given how many Nature cards have the Frost -X trait)... so in general, i think the Siren will have plenty of spells she's trained in.  But I think something you're missing is that NOT being trained in a school doesn't make it outlawed; it merely makes it cost the standard double.  She's just as good as the Wizard (before or after yesterday) at casting out-of-school spells.  You make it sound like she's paying triple for all non-Water spells.  There's a HUGE difference.  All Mind spells cost the standard double, which means all the level 1 Mind spells cost 2 sbp's, etc... so... fill your boots and include as many Psychic spells as you want!

As for Pirate training, I also found it unexpected, but it makes sense in that she is effectively mind-controlling them.  Since you want her to have Psychic training, think of it like every Pirate has a free, permanent Mind Control on it.  Done.  These are just the Pirates that fell victim to her charms (and happen to be all the Pirates included in the game).  And notice that the Pirates that have been announced (including promos) don't have the Aquatic subtype, so while she is trained in them, they don't tend to gain any bonuses (that we know of yet).  The skeleton pirate looks much more at home in a Necromancer's book to me, as I see far more synergy there than in a Siren book... but then again, I haven't seen the whole expansion set yet, so I'll refrain from judging just yet.

Lastly, it's too early to be worried about her stats.  I'd be shocked if she didn't have cards that boost them in some way.  Druid has her treebond which is technically a mage ability but could have just been written on the Vine Tree spell card (but I get the impression the designers wanted to give a choice of which tree to play... although there seems to be an obviously best one at the moment), but i wouldn't be surprised if there is an Aquatic Terrain card, perhaps a "coral reef," that the Siren needs to protect that gives her +1 channeling and +X life, which  automatically combos nicely with her built-in Regenerate and other abilities, and which is analogous to Treebond without using up a mage ability.  Although maybe that would be too similar to the Druid (?).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 06, 2016, 01:39:15 PM
Just a couple of notes.

Before PVS there are less than ten water spells. After PVS there are approximately 40. I might be off a little, but I did just count them the other day. This set makes the Water school huge.

Also, Shallow Sea needs to be considered when looking at the Siren. She can run six of them and that gives her a large area where it's harder to hit her, she regens, and she swings harder if she wants.

There are still a lot of things to see. Hopefully the picture will continue to become clearer.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 06, 2016, 03:37:18 PM
Today is A Call to Arms (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-call-to-arms)! Check it out.

Regarding "Crusade Banner": It's cool, but I can't figure out why it doesn't instead read "Ranged attacks roll 2 fewer dice (to a minimum of 1) against Cursade Banner...." and simultaneously have the "Flame +2" trait.  Oh, I guess that would make it more susceptible to flame-based melee attacks (like many demons, Fire Elemental, Magma Golem, Adramelech Warlock's basic melee attack, Lash of Hellfire, etc) not to mention augments the d12 roll for Burns ... but that would be rather thematic, would it not? I mean, it makes sense that the forces of evil would be working hard to destroy something that could summon not 1 but 2 holy creatures!

It could even have "Aegis 2" vs Ranged attacks and "Flame +2"... So many ways to word something like this.  Or to have the exact effect it currently has , "Crusade Banner gains Aegis 2 against non-Flame Ranged attacks." In any case, it basically says "Fireball me!" 

One of the few times that Fireball is strictly better than Force Hammer when attacking a Conjuration.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 06, 2016, 03:39:29 PM
Cool card. Would be fun to have one turn where you summon a mini army of creatures!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on July 06, 2016, 04:28:52 PM
Today is A Call to Arms (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-call-to-arms)! Check it out.

Regarding "Crusade Banner": It's cool, but I can't figure out why it doesn't instead read "Ranged attacks roll 2 fewer dice (to a minimum of 1) against Cursade Banner...." and simultaneously have the "Flame +2" trait.  Oh, I guess that would make it more susceptible to flame-based melee attacks (like many demons, Fire Elemental, Magma Golem, Adramelech Warlock's basic melee attack, Lash of Hellfire, etc) not to mention augments the d12 roll for Burns ... but that would be rather thematic, would it not? I mean, it makes sense that the forces of evil would be working hard to destroy something that could summon not 1 but 2 holy creatures!

It could even have "Aegis 2" vs Ranged attacks and "Flame +2"... So many ways to word something like this.  Or to have the exact effect it currently has , "Crusade Banner gains Aegis 2 against non-Flame Ranged attacks." In any case, it basically says "Fireball me!" 

One of the few times that Fireball is strictly better than Force Hammer when attacking a Conjuration.

Nothing against you, Nano, but I've often wondered in many fantasy games why people are all like "evil should get a bonus vs this good thing" and not "why doesn't a light attack actually do more against a Dark creature rather than just Non-living?" OR, more to the point of Crusade Banner, "Why doesn't flame/dark get a MINUS to attack this Holy Relic?

Shouldn't the holy guys want the demons dead too and calibrate their arsenal to be more effective?  Just a little pet peeve of mine in many fantasy game (and novel) worlds.  Why does evil get a bonus vs. good and not the other way around?

All of that aside.  You are exactly correct that the wording is so that flame based melee attacks don't automatically kill the thing.  This card is very cool for ramping up your Paladin's front (or BACK) line.  There are a good number of Holy creatures in Priestess Academy (and PvS) that can give you a huge tempo swing when "answering the call" of the Crusade Banner.

One interesting point is that the Paladin is the only mage that could have a legitimate reason to prepare two Rouse the Beast in one turn!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ganpot on July 06, 2016, 04:31:48 PM
Unless you've seen the whole set (which I haven't), there are a lot of assumptions here.
Well, I did state in my post that I was making guesses and assumptions since we haven't seen the vast majority of the new cards. 

Before PVS there are less than ten water spells. After PVS there are approximately 40. I might be off a little, but I did just count them the other day. This set makes the Water school huge.
I'm not saying the Water school won't get a massive buff from the expansion, but you're looking at an almost non-existent school at the moment.  Let's go ahead and estimate that after the expansion the school has 40 cards.  Then, guessing completely blindly (because I have no idea how many song and pirate cards are included in the set), let's also add in 12 non-Water pirate cards and 12 non-Water song cards (which is probably being generous).  That gives the Siren a total (in-school) card pool of roughly 64 cards.  That sounds pretty good, but let's compare that to other mages.  The Priest/Priestess has a card pool of 39 Holy cards, based on the card database from this website.  But, that doesn't account for the new cards released in the Priestess Academy expansion (roughly 24, by my count).  It also doesn't account for the new Holy cards which the PvS expansion itself will bring.  Let's low-ball that and say 15 (6 Holy cards have already been spoiled).  That gives a rough total of 78 cards.  I'll go ahead and list some other Mages as well (ones which shouldn't be as affected by the release of PvS. 

Beastmaster = 69 Nature + 21 Academy (roughly) = 90
Warlock = 79 Dark + 18 Fire = 97
Necromancer = 79 Dark = 79
Forcemaster = 37 Mind = 37
Warlord = 17 Earth + 70 War = 87
(Errata'd) Wizard = 22 Air + 47 Arcane + 24 Academy (roughly) = 93

My point is that even with the massive influx of Water school cards, I fear Arcane Wonders is going to have to end up doing what they did with the Warlord: moving a secondary expansion forward so that the card pool is even somewhat on par with other schools.  The only mage with a more limited set of in-school cards is the Forcemaster, who also happens to belong to the only school which has not yet received any major expansions after its introduction in FvW.  This is the problem with waiting this long to really establish the Water school: most of the other schools are so far ahead that one expansion just can't cram enough cards in to equalize the balance.  Despite everything I just said, I'm not nearly as worried about her initial card variety as I am about how that card pool will be expanded down the line (I'll go into detail below). 

And just like every other school, there's no reason Arcane Wonders can't include new Water spells (or Pirate or Song, for that matter) in future expansions.  There is almost always a new good card for every existing mage in every expansion thereafter.

And some day we might see Frost damage type become a thing, which would also presumably fall within the Water school... so in general, i think the Siren will have plenty of spells she's trained in.  But I think something you're missing is that NOT being trained in a school doesn't make it outlawed; All Mind spells cost the standard double, which means all the level 1 Mind spells cost 2 sbp's, etc... so... fill your boots and include as many Psychic spells as you want!
Let's get Frost out of the way first.  The community knows of the next several upcoming Mage archetypes.  They will most likely be the Barbarian and Sorcerer first, followed by possibly a Shaman and some sort of Vampire.  Unless something changes drastically, the next alt pair of mages will be Forcemaster vs Wizard.  The next Battlegrounds expansion will be the Archmage.  None of those mages are very likely to be the long-awaited Frost mage or have any water training whatsoever (with the possible exception of the Vampire).  So even in the best-case scenario, the Siren will be waiting at least a good 2 years before another water mage is added. 

With that out of the way, sure, Arcane Wonders can add new cards for the Siren here and there in other expansions.  But the bulk of those expansions will always be dedicated towards helping out the new mages and the schools they belong to.  The introduction of the Necromancer helped out the Warlock.  The Druid helped out the Beastmaster.  That's why I really wish the Siren was trained in Psychic spells.  She could have leeched off of the upcoming Alt FvW set coming out eventually.  Instead, she shares practically no training overlap with any other existing or upcoming mage, meaning her card pool will almost inevitably become stale while other mages continue to acquire more new cards.  The Siren is the exact opposite of the original Wizard. 

You're right, not being trained in a school doesn't make it outlawed.  But it does drastically decrease efficiency with spellbook points (halves them, to be precise).  Additionally, most mages don't care very much about the school which they have to pay triple for (with the possible exception of the Warlord).  Warlocks don't need or particularly want most Holy spells because they don't synergize with their pre-existing strategies.  Same with the Druid: she rarely needs or wants fire or war spells (especially high-level ones).  I would actually prefer a Siren fully trained in Water and Mind with two triple-cost schools (Earth and War maybe?) (obviously she would continue to be trained in songs as well).  I don't expect anything to change at this point, but I wanted to share my concerns nonetheless. 

Lastly, it's too early to be worried about her stats.  I'd be shocked if she didn't have cards that boost them in some way.  ...I wouldn't be surprised if there is an Aquatic Terrain card, perhaps a "coral reef," that the Siren needs to protect that gives her +1 channeling and +X life, which  automatically combos nicely with her built-in Regenerate and other abilities, and which is analogous to Treebond without using up a mage ability.  Although maybe that would be too similar to the Druid (?).
Also, Shallow Sea needs to be considered when looking at the Siren. She can run six of them and that gives her a large area where it's harder to hit her, she regens, and she swings harder if she wants.

I doubt the devs would give the Siren something so close to another mage's ability, but who knows. 

The problem with Shallow Sea is that, (while a good card and reusable due to Cantrip) it costs 5 mana to use and only covers one space.  As I already brought up, mana is already kind of an issue.  How is the Siren supposed to have mana to use her abilities somewhat frequently, cover decent areas of the map with terrain so that she and her creatures can play to their aquatic strengths, and still have mana to actually summon and support a decent army of creatures?  Maybe I'll change my mind after seeing her spawnpoint or something else, but right now my feeling is that she needs a lot of set-up time and doesn't have the survivability to withstand an early rush, while other defensive mages can beat her through economy. 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 06, 2016, 04:52:01 PM
I would actually prefer a Siren fully trained in Water and Mind with two triple-cost schools (Earth and War maybe?) (obviously she would continue to be trained in songs as well).  I don't expect anything to change at this point, but I wanted to share my concerns nonetheless.

Mind magic gives her access to a wide variety of pushes and telekinetic fluffed cards like dancing scimitar; not the direction they chose to go with for her.

The problem with Shallow Sea is that, (while a good card and reusable due to Cantrip) it costs 5 mana to use and only covers one space.  As I already brought up, mana is already kind of an issue.  How is the Siren supposed to have mana to use her abilities somewhat frequently, cover decent areas of the map with terrain so that she and her creatures can play to their aquatic strengths, and still have mana to actually summon and support a decent army of creatures?  Maybe I'll change my mind after seeing her spawnpoint or something else, but right now my feeling is that she needs a lot of set-up time and doesn't have the survivability to withstand an early rush, while other defensive mages can beat her through economy.

This is very similar to the "hesitation" from when the Druid was being slowly teased. You have to see her components and play her way.

All that to say, I wouldn't worry to much about card counts and school density; It's better down where it's wetter
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 06, 2016, 05:16:50 PM
Siren having less cards doesn't mean that she must be less competitive.
Personally I'm really happy that they are getting out a school that has so few but highly used cards.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ganpot on July 06, 2016, 05:21:07 PM
Mind magic gives her access to a wide variety of pushes and telekinetic fluffed cards like dancing scimitar; not the direction they chose to go with for her.

This is very similar to the "hesitation" from when the Druid was being slowly teased. You have to see her components and play her way.

All that to say, I wouldn't worry to much about card counts and school density; It's better down where it's wetter
I'm aware that the devs didn't want her to have access to everything in the Mind school, and I accept that (I was referencing it to say that even that idea would be preferable, not that it was ideal).  What I struggle with is giving the Siren the Pirate subtype instead of the Psychic one.  The Siren could use the additional card variety and the Psychic sub-type of the Mind school could use expanding anyway (a win-win).  But what's done is done. 

While we're on the subject of the druid, I would like to remind people of what happened to the Samara Tree.  It was a spoiler before the set, people thought it looked great and would open up new playstyles unique to the Druid, and.... no one (that I'm aware of) ever uses it because it's way too mana inefficient.  Things don't always work out in practice, and I'm slightly worried that something similar will happen to some of the Siren's cards. 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Gogolski on July 06, 2016, 05:29:50 PM
It's better down where it's wetter
Thats what the sharkies and that naiga-familiar-that-channels-2-in-aquatic-terrain say...

Flooding the arena will be huge! It might be 5 mana/zone, but I imagine the disadvantages for enemy creatures and the buffs that it gives the siren's own creatures will level out any "crappy" stats on her own mage card. She can even call her enemies into the water. All the bleed+bloodthirsty-stuff that is part of her (shark-)arsenal will slow healing... All she needs to do is border her sea with bloodspine walls and call her enemies through those to be welcomed by the sharks that await behind them...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 06, 2016, 06:01:48 PM
We still haven't seen all the cards that interact with aquatic creatures. Don't forget that the Siren has aquatic subtype. Just take a look how much would the Warlord change if he had soldier subtype. Conquer, Altar of Carnage, Hidden Tunnels and other spells would then interact with the Warlord. So the Siren may be fragile at first, but after playing few spells she may be hard to kill.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on July 06, 2016, 07:01:45 PM
I don't think I'm overstepping any bounds by saying that giving her training in the psychic subtype was actually considered. She works fine as is and has plenty of tools in her arsenal as is. Playtesters and AW have seen her in practice and she does work in practice. Very well in fact.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 06, 2016, 10:06:35 PM
Nothing against you, Nano, but I've often wondered in many fantasy games why people are all like "evil should get a bonus vs this good thing" and not "why doesn't a light attack actually do more against a Dark creature rather than just Non-living?" OR, more to the point of Crusade Banner, "Why doesn't flame/dark get a MINUS to attack this Holy Relic?

Shouldn't the holy guys want the demons dead too and calibrate their arsenal to be more effective?  Just a little pet peeve of mine in many fantasy game (and novel) worlds.  Why does evil get a bonus vs. good and not the other way around?

All of that aside.  You are exactly correct that the wording is so that flame based melee attacks don't automatically kill the thing.  This card is very cool for ramping up your Paladin's front (or BACK) line.  There are a good number of Holy creatures in Priestess Academy (and PvS) that can give you a huge tempo swing when "answering the call" of the Crusade Banner.

One interesting point is that the Paladin is the only mage that could have a legitimate reason to prepare two Rouse the Beast in one turn!

Regarding good vs evil, there are holy spells that have bonuses vs Dark and/or undead, including Joseph Trublood and Samandriel, Angel of Light. But I agree, more of the Light spells and attacks should work against Dark and not just undead.

As for the Banner, it's just a piece of cloth that is a beacon to call holy creatures to arms. If it is answered quickly, 2 small holy creatures will arrive; and the longer it goes unanswered, the more likely 2 larger holy creatures might arrive. A Dark mage's minions REALLY don't want to see large holy reinforcements show up, because the demons certainly won't have advantages vs them (likely quite the contrary); but the banner is just cloth, even if it symbolizes something more tangible, so the demons should do everything possible to destroy it - so more like they're highly motivated (by fear) more so than having inherent abilities vs holy conjurations. That's why I could see just Flame +2. But they only chose to have the flame bonus (or lack of disadvantage) for ranged attacks - which is fine too.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Borg on July 07, 2016, 05:38:33 AM
Today is A Call to Arms (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-call-to-arms)! Check it out.

A Paladin opening which may soon become very common,

R1 - 19
Double move to NC
Final QC Crusade Banner in FC

R2 - 21+2
If you keep 2 mana for a FD enchantment here or a novice armor and go on Guard in FC,
you have 21 mana to spend on 2 Holy creatures, that should open up quite a few possibilities to make an early rush.

You could potentially even summon up to 3 creatures on R2.
That will give a few mages a scare :)

As a side thought :
If you go second on R1 and bring out the Banner as the final QC of R1, it's impossible for your opponent to damage/destroy the banner before you can use it during the R2 deployment phase.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 07, 2016, 08:12:07 AM
Current, I can't see many war creatures the paladin would cast.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on July 07, 2016, 08:20:57 AM
Current, I can't see many war creatures the paladin would cast.

Guard Dog might actually see some play in Crusade Banner books.  You could also give him Badger Frenzy or imagine this guy with the Melee +1, Piercing +2 aura?

I could also imagine a paladin sacrificing the banner early and running Etherian Lifetree and a bunch of Temple Sentries or Knights of the Red Helm.

So excited about the possibilities!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 07, 2016, 08:23:10 AM
Current, I can't see many war creatures the paladin would cast.

Hopefully this guy will show up in the set - for obvious reasons.  And he's playable by either, acting as sort of a "discount ring" on a stick for either the Siren or the Paladin (or a Warlord):
(https://boardgamegeek.com/camo/6ee51c854d03f994deb3d6313e79396f8bf83598/687474703a2f2f7777772e6c6576656c393967616d65732e636f6d2f696d616765732f4765726172644d616765576172732e706e67)

I figured another promo would be in this set, too, but it turns out the Paladin doesn't have sufficient training to include him for cheap:
(https://boardgamegeek.com/camo/8ec1a780d5a4a4b1fcdfa73c4acc7f7647bf1ccf/687474703a2f2f7777772e6c6576656c393967616d65732e636f6d2f696d616765732f456c69676f724d616765576172732e706e67)

And finally, perhaps this little guy will get the Pirate (or Soldier? or Knight?) subtype added to him when he's released in a retail expansion.  Or not.  But it would seem fitting.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/930/291/f0eab17b0f976e4673b967fc3a578958_large.jpg?1416297397)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 07, 2016, 08:28:05 AM
The Paladin is trained in all Holy creatures, so Eligor is a trained spell for the Paladin.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: jacksmack on July 07, 2016, 08:28:35 AM
Paladin is trained in all level holy creatures - so Eligor is fine for him.

Gerard could be the first creature that its worth using battle fury on.
Eventually you will get some mana back, until then he will hit harder and harder against armored creatures.


Will guard dog get vigilant when in a zone with terrain?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 07, 2016, 08:46:02 AM
Paladin is trained in all level holy creatures - so Eligor is fine for him.

Gerard could be the first creature that its worth using battle fury on.
Eventually you will get some mana back, until then he will hit harder and harder against armored creatures.

Wow, totallly thought I read that Paladin was level 3 holy, level 2 war.  Forgot the part about all holy creatures.  I'm dumb.  Carry on.

As for Battle Fury... Am I the only player who uses it?  And it's nearly an auto-include for many mages in Domination - but I realize that's not a popular format on the forums (must be a Canadian thing).  But yes, definitely a good idea to get as many attacks out of Gerard as possible.  Whirling Strike could be good on him, too, although at that point it's not so much about the mana gain and more about the fact that his 3rd attack is going to have (at least) Piercing +3!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 07, 2016, 09:03:19 AM
I totally missed the abilities being spoiled! They seem both very nice. I only fear the paladin overshadowing the priest and/or walords. Far to little information now though.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 07, 2016, 09:17:28 AM
Also, correct me if im wrong, but level 3 holy + all holy creatures is the same as trained in holy right? Only excluded cards are the priestess only cards right? So only the holy staff? Other than that he has the ecavt same cardpool as the priest(ess)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 07, 2016, 09:19:15 AM
Also, correct me if im wrong, but level 3 holy + all holy creatures is the same as trained in holy right? Only excluded cards are the priestess only cards right?

And Resurrection. His training was done this way mostly because in the future we wanted the ability to make some powerful high level Holy spells that are more tuned toward the "magical" Holy Mages instead of the "martial" one.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on July 07, 2016, 09:20:14 AM
Also, correct me if im wrong, but level 3 holy + all holy creatures is the same as trained in holy right? Only excluded cards are the priestess only cards right?

Currently, Resurrection is the only Holy spell excluded from the Paladin.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 07, 2016, 09:25:21 AM
Thanks!

So ressurection and the staff. (Never used ressurection though  :P) ah well, I trust AW and the playtesters. Everything will be alright. Just blabbing my concerns.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 07, 2016, 09:26:05 AM
Thanks!

So ressurection and the staff. (Never used ressurection though  :P) ah well, I trust AW and the playtesters. Everything will be alright. Just blabbing my concerns.

It's totally fine. This was all part of various conversations we had during development.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 07, 2016, 09:34:48 AM
 
Thanks!

So ressurection and the staff. (Never used ressurection though  :P) ah well, I trust AW and the playtesters. Everything will be alright. Just blabbing my concerns.
And Crown of Protection.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 07, 2016, 09:47:14 AM
Thanks!

So ressurection and the staff. (Never used ressurection though  :P) ah well, I trust AW and the playtesters. Everything will be alright. Just blabbing my concerns.

Well, he could still put Resurrection in his book, but it would cost him 8 sbp (!), so he's probably better off just running more copies of the creatures he'd otherwise resurrect (just like everybody else that doesn't run Resurrection).  But he can't use the Staff or Crown at all.
(He's good to go with Divine Intervention, Restore, and all the Academy equipment, although I think it's safe to assume he'll have better equipment options in his own expansion)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 07, 2016, 09:48:36 AM
You guys will see some of his amazing equipment tomorrow.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 07, 2016, 11:37:32 AM
This week was full of news. Siren card, Paladin card, Wizard changes, Banner... i cannot keep up with my updates :D

Looking forward to next big spoil. Paladins Equipment will definetly Rock!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 08, 2016, 01:17:13 PM
See more Paladin equipment >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-holy-arsenal)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 08, 2016, 01:22:52 PM
See more Paladin equipment >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-holy-arsenal)

I'm loving this mage's equipment. He for sure going to be an absolute bulldozer on the battlefield.

Of course, what remains to be solved is what other cards use Valour points, as it would kinda be fun to see his other possibilities  ::)  ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 08, 2016, 02:25:45 PM
So cool. Finally, a weapon I really like!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 08, 2016, 09:37:21 PM
So for the playtesters, how fast were you getting Valor and activating Auras? With what's already been spoiled, it looks like it would be three or four turns before even being able to activate Resolute/Vengeful.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 08, 2016, 10:01:05 PM
That's honestly a tough question Ophidimancer. In general your spellbook construction will determine how fast you get auras activated, also how many you want to activate.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 08, 2016, 11:03:57 PM
So for the playtesters, how fast were you getting Valor and activating Auras? With what's already been spoiled, it looks like it would be three or four turns before even being able to activate Resolute/Vengeful.

The auras are more reactive to what is going on in the current match. You only get one or other in the final version so sometimes you have to wait and see how the match unfolds and if you're trying to save up for the higher ones first.

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on July 08, 2016, 11:11:32 PM
I bet there is a conjuration or two that earns valor through a special action or something.  I would also suspect that there are several more cards that will earn valor in various ways.  Maybe enchantments on other friendly creatures and more equipment focus around the paladin is the primary way besides his abilities.

It still seems like during turn 3 would be the earliest you may be able to activate an aura. I don't see it being possible to do it sooner.  Either way PvS is a must buy!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 09, 2016, 12:34:45 AM
I wonder if you get more Valor if your Challenged enemy target attacks something else more than once.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 09, 2016, 04:02:33 AM
So for the playtesters, how fast were you getting Valor and activating Auras? With what's already been spoiled, it looks like it would be three or four turns before even being able to activate Resolute/Vengeful.

I heard that Arcane Wonders recently purchased licence for HBO snipers, because Game of Thrones is postponded due to weather and those snipers has to eat. Yet, here i will show a great deal of heroism (and probably stupidity) and tell you, that balancing Valor gain and Valor usage was a really really really great deal and as Coshade stated (added another target for HBO snipers) it depends on your own book and how your enemy is playing. But if you have 3 auras running at once, it means you are just toying with your enemy. I had 1 aura most of the time and mostly it was a reaction against a strategy my opponent play his book. In some matches i had 2, but it was not always ;)

Hoped it helped :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 09, 2016, 06:54:35 AM
So for the playtesters, how fast were you getting Valor and activating Auras? With what's already been spoiled, it looks like it would be three or four turns before even being able to activate Resolute/Vengeful.

I heard that Arcane Wonders recently purchased licence for HBO snipers, because Game of Thrones is postponded due to weather and those snipers has to eat. Yet, here i will show a great deal of heroism (and probably stupidity) and tell you, that balancing Valor gain and Valor usage was a really really really great deal and as Coshade stated (added another target for HBO snipers) it depends on your own book and how your enemy is playing. But if you have 3 auras running at once, it means you are just toying with your enemy. I had 1 aura most of the time and mostly it was a reaction against a strategy my opponent play his book. In some matches i had 2, but it was not always ;)

Hoped it helped :)

Oh right you can choose which aura to go for first. I somehow got confused and thought there was an order to them.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 09, 2016, 07:40:28 AM
I bet there is a conjuration or two that earns valor through a special action or something.  I would also suspect that there are several more cards that will earn valor in various ways.  Maybe enchantments on other friendly creatures and more equipment focus around the paladin is the primary way besides his abilities.

It still seems like during turn 3 would be the earliest you may be able to activate an aura. I don't see it being possible to do it sooner.  Either way PvS is a must buy!

I vaguely recall Laddinfance or Bryan mentioning (in a podcast? Origins video?) that the Paladin could gain Valor by Guarding in a zone with friendly creatures (eg successfully drawing an attack and counter striking) so I expect a shield equipment with that ability. This way, you could score Valor for your main attack against strongest creature,  a refused challenge, dealing 5+ damage, then quickcast Defend on self to possibly Ciunterstrike and even another chance to  deal 5+ damage.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 09, 2016, 04:20:18 PM
I bet there is a conjuration or two that earns valor through a special action or something.  I would also suspect that there are several more cards that will earn valor in various ways.  Maybe enchantments on other friendly creatures and more equipment focus around the paladin is the primary way besides his abilities.

It still seems like during turn 3 would be the earliest you may be able to activate an aura. I don't see it being possible to do it sooner.  Either way PvS is a must buy!

I vaguely recall Laddinfance or Bryan mentioning (in a podcast? Origins video?) that the Paladin could gain Valor by Guarding in a zone with friendly creatures (eg successfully drawing an attack and counter striking) so I expect a shield equipment with that ability. This way, you could score Valor for your main attack against strongest creature,  a refused challenge, dealing 5+ damage, then quickcast Defend on self to possibly Ciunterstrike and even another chance to  deal 5+ damage.
You can't cast Defend on a mage (it would be too good for the Forcemaster to bind it to a Thoughtspore).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 09, 2016, 11:49:49 PM
So that middle aura grants melee +1 and piercing +2 to the paladin while its counterpart only gives the armor to creatures? Seems a pretty obvious choice for most games.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 09, 2016, 11:58:43 PM
So that middle aura grants melee +1 and piercing +2 to the paladin while its counterpart only gives the armor to creatures? Seems a pretty obvious choice for most games.

Resolute  Aura also gives Tough -2 to all friendly living creatures in the Paladin's zone. For the Paladin himself, it only gives a Tough -2, but for everyone else it gives both Tough -2 AND Armor +2.

Edit: Oh, I misread your post. You do understand that and just think it's weak.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 10, 2016, 01:43:37 AM
So that middle aura grants melee +1 and piercing +2 to the paladin while its counterpart only gives the armor to creatures? Seems a pretty obvious choice for most games.

Resolute  Aura also gives Tough -2 to all friendly living creatures in the Paladin's zone. For the Paladin himself, it only gives a Tough -2, but for everyone else it gives both Tough -2 AND Armor +2.

Edit: Oh, I misread your post. You do understand that and just think it's weak.

Depends what is going on. If I am fighting 3+ armor creatures then I would probably go with pierce. If I am only fighting zombies / heavy effect rolls like fire, or pushes, then that tough is looking better and better.

What gets really interesting are mirror matches.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 10, 2016, 02:01:46 AM
While little bit spellbook costly, Trolls are nice combo with his Armor aura. You mostly negate Trolls alergy to Fire and give them armor. Also, if they have Corrode markers, let them just walk out of your zone ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 10, 2016, 03:59:19 AM
I get that there are some situations when the armor is better, I just think that by far for most situations melee and especially piercing 2 are much better.

Edit: Oh, I misread your post. You do understand that and just think it's weak.

I dont think it is weak at all! I just think it is inferior.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 11, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
Check out the Siren's weapon!

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-shoalsdeep-trident)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 11, 2016, 03:30:53 PM
Check out the Siren's weapon!

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-shoalsdeep-trident)

Nice! The Siren is going to rival the Forcemaster for control of board position with pushes, traps, and taunts.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Gogolski on July 11, 2016, 03:41:51 PM
Those Urchins are wonderful!
Really nice touch with the blood on the lower one... :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 11, 2016, 05:17:31 PM
Another weapon I will use! The urchins are super cool too! Thanks Laddin!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 11, 2016, 08:05:20 PM
Another weapon I will use! The urchins are super cool too! Thanks Laddin!
^agreed
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Milevan_Faent on July 11, 2016, 09:03:57 PM
Hmm.. Can you use an attack from a Weapon as a Quick-Cast? Or is Quick-Cast only for Spells? Cause if you can, I love that trident so much.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 11, 2016, 09:21:39 PM
A quick-cast must be used to cast, so only spells. Sorry.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 12, 2016, 09:53:33 AM
A quick-cast must be used to cast, so only spells. Sorry.

I know the answer, just wanted to hear if from official source. When comes to Wand of Healing the quick cast is still not usable in this matter. Right?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: jacksmack on July 12, 2016, 10:25:03 AM
The text on wand says quick spell.

So its possible.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: jacksmack on July 12, 2016, 10:29:53 AM
The siren weapon is SO awesome.

Solid push effect is just so good. I hope she has a worthwhile spawnpoint so she can actually spend actions on controlling the board with her attacks and ability.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 12, 2016, 04:39:07 PM
In my opinion the trident is a bit underpriced. I would at least change the range of its water attack to 1-1.

It's funny how aquatic creatures get to ignore urchins, when there's aquatic terrain, but not Mangler Caltrops.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Milevan_Faent on July 13, 2016, 04:57:52 AM
A quick-cast must be used to cast, so only spells. Sorry.

Such a shame. I figured that was the case. Otherwise, that trident could totally be used to push people 2 spaces in one turn (first with Thrust, then Wave Blast). Guess it will have to just be done with other methods.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 14, 2016, 01:24:53 PM
Check out Smite right >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-smite).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Powlich on July 14, 2016, 03:17:07 PM
Check out Smite right >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-smite).

I really like it! Now I think more people will make room for Fumble in their spellbooks after PvS has been released. If you see a Paladin with some melee buffs, like bear strength and such. You know he will try to make a Smite attack sooner or later.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on July 14, 2016, 04:25:33 PM
Another weapon I will use! The urchins are super cool too! Thanks Laddin!
^agreed
Heroic Ballad on self-
Charge for 6+2 pierce on border zone, push into wall for 3 dice attack.
quick cast battlefury
Attack for 4+3 pierce, push into wall for 3 dice attack.

Siren beatdown is fun.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 14, 2016, 05:18:10 PM
Another weapon I will use! The urchins are super cool too! Thanks Laddin!
^agreed
Heroic Ballad on self-
Charge for 6+2 pierce on border zone, push into wall for 3 dice attack.
quick cast battlefury
Attack for 4+3 pierce, push into wall for 3 dice attack.

Siren beatdown is fun.
Also Siren can make Heroic Ballad last 5 rounds, with Voice of the sea and her ability. Add Lion Savagery and for 5 rounds she will be able to attack with 8 dice +3 pierce with single attack every round and we still didn't see any new water attack spells.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 14, 2016, 05:53:33 PM
Cool! Mega blast time!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 14, 2016, 11:38:48 PM
Sounds like another reason to run fumble  :o
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 15, 2016, 01:53:24 AM
With smite it becomes very clear that the paladin is using his valor as some sort of special mana to do epic stuff. With more (very cool and awesome) things being spoiled I just cant help but wonder which advantage the priest will have over the paladin. Laddinfance mentioned that there were instances when the paladin had 8 channeling, and right now, I wonder if it would have been better (and thematic since he is more of a warrior)

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on July 15, 2016, 02:39:51 AM
That's my major concern actually. Not only does the pally get access to the same tricks and such that the priest already had (meaning holy school complete with spawnpoint) but he gets his own special pally stuff that makes him awesome. Im still super excited cuz i  get to use all this new cool tech in my priest books, but im afraid he's just gonna get pushed back further on the list so to speak
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 15, 2016, 03:15:11 AM
Quick search shows that Resurrection is the only out of school Holy spell for the Paladin on the Card Database.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 15, 2016, 05:21:20 AM
Quick search shows that Resurrection is the only out of school Holy spell for the Paladin on the Card Database.
Thanks!

So ressurection and the staff. (Never used ressurection though  :P) ah well, I trust AW and the playtesters. Everything will be alright. Just blabbing my concerns.
And Crown of Protection.

Seems Im blabbing again  ::)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 15, 2016, 06:05:31 AM
I reserve my opinion on how Priest will rock after Academy Priestess, PvS and Lost Grimoaire. But so far,its true that facts could be in favor for Paladin.

All academy cards that are good for Priest are "Holy Mage only" and i bet there will be no "Priestess only" in PvS. Last unknown in this equation is Lost Grimoire.

Dont loose hope. Paladin will never summon Holy Avenger and Priest will never use Auras :)

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on July 15, 2016, 07:24:45 AM
The Priest has the advantage of an opponent not really being able to start gaming his opponent by his mage card.  Paladin certainly has cool tricks, but you have to play into them to maximize them.  Which means predictability, a player can start to guess what youre going to do and try to "deny valor" making it more of a risk/reward sort of thing.  Priest on the other hand isnt reliant on a narrower secondary mechanic or minigame.  By its very nature, Valor is telegraphed, the opponent will know how you generate it and know how much you have at any given time, and what spells you might be using it on and probably even WHEN you will in some cases.  Which means the Paladin can have his own tricks stiffled or be forced into tough decisions by his opponent. 

When an opponent sees hes playing a Paladin, he can already start accounting for Valor in his own strategy, when the opponent sees hes playing a Priest he cant assume as much.  (much how the Forcemasters biggest weakness is simply that she is a Forcemaster and can anticipate much of her spellbook and gameplan already.)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on July 15, 2016, 07:26:01 AM
Also, Jinx hoses Smite pretty hard.  Jinx will fizzle the casting, but it only says it refunds the mana spent not other costs.. so a Jinxed Smite doesnt get the 4 Valor refunded.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 15, 2016, 07:46:05 AM
Also, Jinx hoses Smite pretty hard.  Jinx will fizzle the casting, but it only says it refunds the mana spent not other costs.. so a Jinxed Smite doesnt get the 4 Valor refunded.

The Valor isn't really part of the cost of Smite, though. It's part of the effect (eg card text) which is dependent on resolution  - sort of like how the mana cost of Purify is 0 not X, since the spending of mana happens as part of resolving Purify.

*edit* Unless I'm mistaken, and a rules supplement states that spells with subtype Valor may have a cost that includes both mama and Valor, where the amount of Valor required is stated in the card text, rather than the cost bar at the top of the spell card.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 15, 2016, 07:49:02 AM
The other benefit of the Priest is in future development. Right now he seems very similar to the Paladin, because there are few high level spells, that aren't creatures. This area is something we want to explore more in the future. It will help make them feel different over time.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 15, 2016, 08:38:59 AM
The Priest has the advantage of an opponent not really being able to start gaming his opponent by his mage card.  Paladin certainly has cool tricks, but you have to play into them to maximize them.  Which means predictability, a player can start to guess what youre going to do and try to "deny valor" making it more of a risk/reward sort of thing.  Priest on the other hand isnt reliant on a narrower secondary mechanic or minigame.  By its very nature, Valor is telegraphed, the opponent will know how you generate it and know how much you have at any given time, and what spells you might be using it on and probably even WHEN you will in some cases.  Which means the Paladin can have his own tricks stiffled or be forced into tough decisions by his opponent. 

When an opponent sees hes playing a Paladin, he can already start accounting for Valor in his own strategy, when the opponent sees hes playing a Priest he cant assume as much.  (much how the Forcemasters biggest weakness is simply that she is a Forcemaster and can anticipate much of her spellbook and gameplan already.)

I'd agree with this in general, but this has always been one of the Priest's problems.  In other words, the "drawback" of the Paladin being somewhat predictable in what he aspires to do also applies to the Priest.  His Burn token trick depends on Light attacks, so you know he's probably packing Staff of Asyra and Dawnbreaker's Ring (each in multiples?) ... so you save your Equipment removal spells for those and you really hose 1 of his 2 tricks.  His other trick involves his Holy Avenger, which is honestly tough to pull off if you've played Priest: you need other friendly creatures to Guard or otherwise draw attacks in order to activate your Avenger.  All your opponent has to do is choose not to cooperate and the Avenger is mostly nullified.  The Paladin's "challenge" is similar but a lot easier to pull off, since the choice is mostly in the hands of the Paladin player (e.g. which creature to choose). So, honestly, the Priest doesn't have much more flexibility than the Paladin, and often feels like a mage with no special ability... besides getting to add a Burn token when he casts a (generally pretty weak) Light attack spell or using his (very weak) primary attack - although the new Light attack spells in the PvS expansion will surely benefit the Priest in that regard (e.g. Luminous Blast (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-luminous-blast)).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 15, 2016, 08:45:35 AM
The Paladin absolutely rocks! If you want to continue playing Priest, you really have to make a book that uses his abilities to their fullest.  I believe the Priest is still the best holy mage for being rushed against with his HA and potential double status effect punch. The reasoning that Baron gave is absolutely spot on for Priest advantages. I would like to add that his ability to to daze/stun and add burn is really good. Now that we have a temple that boosts light attacks, and a plethora of new options of doing light based damage, you can make some really crazy builds. While the Paladin can roll that single high damage die with smite, the Priest can have consistent action denial and burns to ramp up the advantage.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 15, 2016, 08:58:10 AM
The Priest has the advantage of an opponent not really being able to start gaming his opponent by his mage card.  Paladin certainly has cool tricks, but you have to play into them to maximize them.  Which means predictability, a player can start to guess what youre going to do and try to "deny valor" making it more of a risk/reward sort of thing.  Priest on the other hand isnt reliant on a narrower secondary mechanic or minigame.  By its very nature, Valor is telegraphed, the opponent will know how you generate it and know how much you have at any given time, and what spells you might be using it on and probably even WHEN you will in some cases.  Which means the Paladin can have his own tricks stiffled or be forced into tough decisions by his opponent. 

When an opponent sees hes playing a Paladin, he can already start accounting for Valor in his own strategy, when the opponent sees hes playing a Priest he cant assume as much.  (much how the Forcemasters biggest weakness is simply that she is a Forcemaster and can anticipate much of her spellbook and gameplan already.)

I'd agree with this in general, but this has always been one of the Priest's problems.  In other words, the "drawback" of the Paladin being somewhat predictable in what he aspires to do also applies to the Priest.  His Burn token trick depends on Light attacks, so you know he's probably packing Staff of Asyra and Dawnbreaker's Ring (each in multiples?) ... so you save your Equipment removal spells for those and you really hose 1 of his 2 tricks.  His other trick involves his Holy Avenger, which is honestly tough to pull off if you've played Priest: you need other friendly creatures to Guard or otherwise draw attacks in order to activate your Avenger.  All your opponent has to do is choose not to cooperate and the Avenger is mostly nullified.  So, honestly, the Priest doesn't have much more flexibility than the Paladin, and often feels like a mage with no special ability... besides getting to add a Burn token when he casts a (generally pretty weak) Light attack spell - and new attack spells in the PvS expansion will surely benefit the Priest in that regard (e.g. Luminous Blast (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-luminous-blast)).

There are a couple of creatures who've yet to be spoiled that do work for a Priest very well. We'll just have to wait and see Noble Vanguard and Crusader Griffin.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 15, 2016, 11:23:18 AM
Seems Im blabbing again  ::)

Yep, just chiming in.  ;D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 15, 2016, 12:32:05 PM
The Priest has the advantage of an opponent not really being able to start gaming his opponent by his mage card.  Paladin certainly has cool tricks, but you have to play into them to maximize them.  Which means predictability, a player can start to guess what youre going to do and try to "deny valor" making it more of a risk/reward sort of thing.  Priest on the other hand isnt reliant on a narrower secondary mechanic or minigame.  By its very nature, Valor is telegraphed, the opponent will know how you generate it and know how much you have at any given time, and what spells you might be using it on and probably even WHEN you will in some cases.  Which means the Paladin can have his own tricks stiffled or be forced into tough decisions by his opponent. 

When an opponent sees hes playing a Paladin, he can already start accounting for Valor in his own strategy, when the opponent sees hes playing a Priest he cant assume as much.  (much how the Forcemasters biggest weakness is simply that she is a Forcemaster and can anticipate much of her spellbook and gameplan already.)

I'd agree with this in general, but this has always been one of the Priest's problems.  In other words, the "drawback" of the Paladin being somewhat predictable in what he aspires to do also applies to the Priest.  His Burn token trick depends on Light attacks, so you know he's probably packing Staff of Asyra and Dawnbreaker's Ring (each in multiples?) ... so you save your Equipment removal spells for those and you really hose 1 of his 2 tricks.  His other trick involves his Holy Avenger, which is honestly tough to pull off if you've played Priest: you need other friendly creatures to Guard or otherwise draw attacks in order to activate your Avenger.  All your opponent has to do is choose not to cooperate and the Avenger is mostly nullified.  So, honestly, the Priest doesn't have much more flexibility than the Paladin, and often feels like a mage with no special ability... besides getting to add a Burn token when he casts a (generally pretty weak) Light attack spell - and new attack spells in the PvS expansion will surely benefit the Priest in that regard (e.g. Luminous Blast (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-spoiler-luminous-blast)).

There are a couple of creatures who've yet to be spoiled that do work for a Priest very well. We'll just have to wait and see Noble Vanguard and Crusader Griffin.

OMG, my mouth is watering over those names!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on July 15, 2016, 12:44:17 PM
Also, Jinx hoses Smite pretty hard.  Jinx will fizzle the casting, but it only says it refunds the mana spent not other costs.. so a Jinxed Smite doesnt get the 4 Valor refunded.

The Valor isn't really part of the cost of Smite, though. It's part of the effect (eg card text) which is dependent on resolution  - sort of like how the mana cost of Purify is 0 not X, since the spending of mana happens as part of resolving Purify.

*edit* Unless I'm mistaken, and a rules supplement states that spells with subtype Valor may have a cost that includes both mama and Valor, where the amount of Valor required is stated in the card text, rather than the cost bar at the top of the spell card.
The text says  "As an additional cost to cast smite you must 4 Valor" so Id take that as being part of cost to cast it.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 15, 2016, 12:52:10 PM
There are a couple of creatures who've yet to be spoiled that do work for a Priest very well. We'll just have to wait and see Noble Vanguard and Crusader Griffin.

OMG, my mouth is watering over those names!

Ditto.  I really hope griffins have a common trait of denying Elusive, since Elusive is a trait that doesn't really have a counter right now (aside from Vine markers, but that's still limited to hindering).  That may not sound like a big deal to Arena players, but it's important in Domination, where Elusive (and Fast and Flying) are probably the most powerful traits in the game. I'm already "illegally" using a Victorian Griffin as a potential Holy Avenger in my Priest Domination (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16925.msg70882#msg70882) book, but he's a tad expensive and can be countered by Gravikor, among other things (e.g. Maim Wings, Knockdown + Tanglevine, etc).

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2214965.png)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 16, 2016, 09:14:19 AM
The other benefit of the Priest is in future development. Right now he seems very similar to the Paladin, because there are few high level spells, that aren't creatures. This area is something we want to explore more in the future. It will help make them feel different over time.
Looking forward to that! It is indeed true that academy and sirenVpaladin will boost the priest a lot too. :)


On a less serious note, the shape of  the sword of randiance (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-holy-arsenal) seems to represent a two handed sword with the handle being made for two hands. On the artwork of smite (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-smite), you can see the paladin use both hands.

I'd also argue that the Siren's trident would require two hands.  ::)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 16, 2016, 09:30:02 AM
The other benefit of the Priest is in future development. Right now he seems very similar to the Paladin, because there are few high level spells, that aren't creatures. This area is something we want to explore more in the future. It will help make them feel different over time.
Looking forward to that! It is indeed true that academy and sirenVpaladin will boost the priest a lot too. :)


On a less serious note, the shape of  the sword of randiance (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-a-holy-arsenal) seems to represent a two handed sword with the handle being made for two hands. On the artwork of smite (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-smite), you can see the paladin use both hands.

I'd also argue that the Siren's trident would require two hands.  ::)

sshhhhh it's magic  :P
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 18, 2016, 09:14:26 AM
I was reviewing the PVS Rulebook today and noticed that I put the incorrect Valor cost in the article about the Paladin's ability card. I've fixed it. It's pretty crazy when a font's 3 looks like it's 8.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Tyrnan on July 18, 2016, 09:41:49 AM
So both Aura's where three is stated as valor cost, cost eight valor?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 18, 2016, 09:54:24 AM
No, I edited it. It WAS 8, but it should have been 3. So, now it is 3.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Bluebaron on July 18, 2016, 10:04:09 AM
That cost sounds more reasonable. Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 18, 2016, 10:42:34 AM
The Paladin has friends in high places...

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-the-unfriendly-skies)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 18, 2016, 10:45:14 AM
Griffin! <3
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on July 18, 2016, 11:21:23 AM
And Crusade Griffin is one reason why I'm not worried about the Priest being competitive when the Paladin hits the field.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 18, 2016, 11:23:44 AM
Yeah that thing has Holy Avenger written all over it.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 18, 2016, 03:44:09 PM
The Griffen to s amazing put iguana and lion savegry on him and he is a beast!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 18, 2016, 06:49:04 PM
Lions Savagery is the obvious but Iguana is a great idea too!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on July 18, 2016, 06:59:51 PM
Blessed focus for an additional piercing and Asyra's Touch to keep it alive.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 18, 2016, 07:02:36 PM
Problem with blessed focus is that it only lasts while there is no damage. Also, isnt asyra's touch only minor?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 18, 2016, 07:17:15 PM
Amazing creature and art! Probably the best level 3 creature to become an avenger, but personally I think I prefer the level 2 creatures for that purpose.

Edit: think Im gonna run Tarok, the Skyhunter more often in my nature books once this beasts is out! (Shame tarok isnt fast)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Anubis on July 21, 2016, 03:13:54 PM
I've been used so quickly to the "two spoilers per week"....  :'(

Laddinfance, would it be maybe possible to fix that issue ?  ;D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 21, 2016, 03:16:51 PM
I have a spoiler for today, but I've had some other things to respond to first. So, it's running a bit behind.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 21, 2016, 04:49:44 PM
Time and Tide (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-time-and-tide)
new spoiler today!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 21, 2016, 04:53:18 PM
Cool card. Not was I was expecting but still cool.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on July 21, 2016, 04:58:46 PM
Synchs well with the Trident since its got a built in hydro attack with an already high effect chance.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 21, 2016, 05:27:34 PM
Great card; will make the water attacks more effective. Unfortunately, I think we'll only see the Kraken till after GenCon  :(
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 21, 2016, 05:37:22 PM
Great card; will make the water attacks more effective. Unfortunately, I think we'll only see the Kraken till after GenCon  :(

Kraken!!!!!!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 21, 2016, 06:16:41 PM
Great card; will make the water attacks more effective. Unfortunately, I think we'll only see the Kraken till after GenCon  :(
I don't care about Kraken, give me Colossal Crab! :P
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 22, 2016, 01:40:24 AM
I like the way they intoduce the tides. VERY thematic. 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Anubis on July 22, 2016, 01:48:49 AM
I have a spoiler for today, but I've had some other things to respond to first. So, it's running a bit behind.

Time and Tide (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-time-and-tide)
new spoiler today!

You really are the best, thank you :)

Great card by the way!!!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: steack on July 22, 2016, 05:43:45 AM
tkx ,

 and i report the news in the french forum ^^

https://www.trictrac.net/forum/sujet/mage-wars-etes-vous-un-vrai-magicien (https://www.trictrac.net/forum/sujet/mage-wars-etes-vous-un-vrai-magicien)

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Tyrnan on July 22, 2016, 07:23:28 AM
Great! I like this simple cards that don't seem to do much at first but change a lot but just adding a little bit of power to the things you do. What's missing now are new water attack spells :D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 22, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
Great! I like this simple cards that don't seem to do much at first but change a lot but just adding a little bit of power to the things you do. What's missing now are new water attack spells :D

I'm sure there will be a wave of them released
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on July 22, 2016, 11:17:57 AM
Great! I like this simple cards that don't seem to do much at first but change a lot but just adding a little bit of power to the things you do. What's missing now are new water attack spells :D

I'm sure there will be a wave of them released

I see what you did there.  ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 22, 2016, 02:15:36 PM
Great! I like this simple cards that don't seem to do much at first but change a lot but just adding a little bit of power to the things you do. What's missing now are new water attack spells :D

I'm sure there will be a wave of them released

I see what you did there.  ;)

Eyyyy  8)

But seriously, I think she won't be needing a lot more water attacks. She has enough with Geyser and Surging Wave, unless she might be more attack based then we thought {although I dont know anything that would be deemed a cool idea for a water attack}.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 22, 2016, 02:24:19 PM
Great! I like this simple cards that don't seem to do much at first but change a lot but just adding a little bit of power to the things you do. What's missing now are new water attack spells :D

I'm sure there will be a wave of them released

I see what you did there.  ;)

Eyyyy  8)

But seriously, I think she won't be needing a lot more water attacks. She has enough with Geyser and Surging Wave, unless she might be more attack based then we thought {although I dont know anything that would be deemed a cool idea for a water attack}.

Tsunami?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on July 22, 2016, 02:45:18 PM
Great! I like this simple cards that don't seem to do much at first but change a lot but just adding a little bit of power to the things you do. What's missing now are new water attack spells :D

I'm sure there will be a wave of them released

I see what you did there.  ;)

Eyyyy  8)

But seriously, I think she won't be needing a lot more water attacks. She has enough with Geyser and Surging Wave, unless she might be more attack based then we thought {although I dont know anything that would be deemed a cool idea for a water attack}.

Tsunami?

Yep we need to have a Tsunami attack water spell!!! &#128512;
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Tyrnan on July 22, 2016, 04:36:03 PM
I just thought that it would be really cool to have a water zone attack, let's call it storm flood, that deals a little bit of damage (1-2 dice) to every creature in the zone and additionally adds a water terrain conjuration to the zone so you can litterally flood the arena with attack spells  8)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Superfish on July 22, 2016, 05:25:19 PM
Perhaps a Rip Tide spell,
Kinda average damage and a low chance to push/pull, but with a big bonus to the D12 roll when you Don't have Initiative (tide goes in, tide goes out ;D )
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 22, 2016, 05:46:29 PM
I just thought that it would be really cool to have a water zone attack, let's call it storm flood, that deals a little bit of damage (1-2 dice) to every creature in the zone and additionally adds a water terrain conjuration to the zone so you can litterally flood the arena with attack spells  8)

Love the idea, especially a zone attack (ex storm) as well as a big ranged attack (tsunami). I just don't want her to be like the Priestess, where you have a mage that has good abilities but can't stand her ground due to terrible attacks that do hardly any damage; good and reasonable dice would be 2-3 for a storm and 4-5 for tsunami.

Ps: Very interesting point on how to flood the arena, lets hope it gets in  ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Milevan_Faent on July 22, 2016, 08:11:42 PM
What about a Whirlpool? Attack spell pulls everything 1 zone away to it, then zaps them all for damage.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 22, 2016, 08:54:16 PM
What about a Whirlpool? Attack spell pulls everything 1 zone away to it, then zaps them all for damage.

That would probably be better as an incantation that makes an attack, like explode or burst of thrones.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Milevan_Faent on July 23, 2016, 01:27:43 AM
What about a Whirlpool? Attack spell pulls everything 1 zone away to it, then zaps them all for damage.

That would probably be better as an incantation that makes an attack, like explode or burst of thrones.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Schwenkgott on July 23, 2016, 03:07:20 AM
Whirlpool and Tsunami would be great. I wonder if Aaron can do something about that  ::)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Biblofilter on July 23, 2016, 03:59:00 AM
Any Frost spells on the way?

Iceball

Ice Storm

Ice Pike

Wall of Frost

 ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 23, 2016, 07:50:10 AM
Any Frost spells on the way?

Iceball

Ice Storm

Ice Pike

Wall of Frost

 ;)

You said it Biblo!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: fas723 on July 23, 2016, 07:54:49 AM
Whirlpool and Tsunami would be great. I wonder if Aaron can do something about that  ::)

A zoom water attack that leaves (let you play for free) a Shallow sea behind!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 23, 2016, 08:38:15 AM
Any Frost spells on the way?

Iceball

Ice Storm

Ice Pike

Wall of Frost

 ;)

Apparently not this expansion :(
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 23, 2016, 10:05:14 AM
when is the next spoiler going to be out?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 23, 2016, 12:40:22 PM
when is the next spoiler going to be out?

I think they're done; they're two weeks away from their first release, so it's not worth releasing anymore spoilers, considering we'll be pretty much seeing a lot of cards being spoiled online due in part to Origin's timely release.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 23, 2016, 01:01:50 PM
Well then, I would say we got a good number of cards from the set. However I think there must be at least 10-25 cards remaining.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 23, 2016, 01:46:17 PM
However I think there must be at least 10-25 cards remaining.

Which include the Colossal crab and the Kraken  ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 23, 2016, 01:50:25 PM
However I think there must be at least 10-25 cards remaining.

Which include the Colossal crab and the Kraken  ;)

Indeed!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 23, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
Well then, I would say we got a good number of cards from the set. However I think there must be at least 10-25 cards remaining.
The set is going to contain at least 7 incantations, 14 equipments, 24 creatures, 1 attack, 7 conjurations and 1 enchantment unless AW did the same thing as with Core Set (removed cards without rearranging numbers). This means there should be at least 32 more spells. Of course there are going to be spells like Dispel or Heal, but we have seen only single song.

Attacks (1 previewed + 1 known from set description):
1 Luminous Blast
Pillar of Righteous Flame?

Equipments (5 previewed +1 promo from set description):
Leviatan Scale Armor
6 Paladin's Cloak
9 Ring of Tides
10 Shoalsdeep Trident
13 Sword of Radiance
14 Voice of the Sea

Conjurations (4):
1 Bed of Urchins
3 Crusade Banner
5 Malakai's Basilica
7 Shallow Sea

Creatures (10 + 3 known from set description):
Alandell the Blue Knight
3 Blightheart
4 Cassiel
5 Colossal Crab
6 Crusader Griffin
8 Deptonne Berserker
9 Deptonne Bloodshaman
11 Drokarr
12 Eligor
13 Gerard
14 KRH
15 Kraken
19 Naiya
Noble Vanguard
22 Shoalsdeep Thrasher
23 Shoalsdeep Tidecaller
24 THG

Enchantment (1)
1 Ballad of Courage

Incantations (1):
7 Smite

Of course till 7th August we will know every card in the set.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 23, 2016, 04:53:33 PM
Also, noble vanguard. Where are you getting names like the blue knight?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 23, 2016, 05:24:04 PM
From the official set description given to stores and boardgamegeek.com
Quote
Expand the world of ''Mage Wars'' with two powerful mages and hundreds of new spells in '''''Mage Wars Arena: Paladin vs Siren Expansion Set''''':

*Build an army of aquatic monstrosities with Deptonne Blood Shaman, Shoals Deep Tidecaller, and Colossal Crab.

*Be a beacon of light in a world filled with darkness using Luminous Blast, Pillar of Righteous Flame, and Smite.

*Call forth the watery depths and flood the Arena with the terrain changing Shallow Sea.

*Finish your opponents with powerful Legendary creatures like Alandell the Blue Knight, Kraken, and Cassiel Shield of Bim-Shalla.

*Control the tides of battle with powerful equipment such as the Ring of Tides, Leviathan Scale Armor,and the Sword of Radiance.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 24, 2016, 09:23:06 AM
However I think there must be at least 10-25 cards remaining.

Which include the Colossal crab and the Kraken  ;)

Indeed!

I assume the biggest Water creature will be the Kraken, and the biggest Holy creature will be the dragon...

Please tell me you haven't already forgot about this guy!

(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1390574_940715482631211_5323432277530875666_n.jpg?oh=5b85da9d0d7f7ced1d21a629f22fc658&oe=57EB884E)
(from the Mage Wars facebook page)

... although he could be in the Lost Grimoire (?)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 24, 2016, 09:33:33 AM
Oh my, He/she looks amazing!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 24, 2016, 10:14:36 AM
However I think there must be at least 10-25 cards remaining.

Which include the Colossal crab and the Kraken  ;)

Indeed!

I assume the biggest Water creature will be the Kraken, and the biggest Holy creature will be the dragon...

Please tell me you haven't already forgot about this guy!

(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1390574_940715482631211_5323432277530875666_n.jpg?oh=5b85da9d0d7f7ced1d21a629f22fc658&oe=57EB884E)
(from the Mage Wars facebook page)

... although he could be in the Lost Grimoire (?)

Well you are an ambassador, so maybe you know more ;)

Kraken for shure will be to the Siren what Adramalech is to the Warlock (perhaps not as powerfull) , but the dragon seems very interesting (doesnt mean though that the Dragon is surely part of the Holy school)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 24, 2016, 06:26:19 PM
Oh my, He/she looks amazing!!!!!!!!!

SHE is one of the two promos for the set. The other is a leviathan.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 24, 2016, 06:33:39 PM
He he he.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 24, 2016, 10:26:31 PM
However I think there must be at least 10-25 cards remaining.

Which include the Colossal crab and the Kraken  ;)

Indeed!

I assume the biggest Water creature will be the Kraken, and the biggest Holy creature will be the dragon...

Please tell me you haven't already forgot about this guy!

(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1390574_940715482631211_5323432277530875666_n.jpg?oh=5b85da9d0d7f7ced1d21a629f22fc658&oe=57EB884E)
(from the Mage Wars facebook page)

... although he could be in the Lost Grimoire (?)

Well you are an ambassador, so maybe you know more ;)

Kraken for shure will be to the Siren what Adramalech is to the Warlock (perhaps not as powerfull) , but the dragon seems very interesting (doesnt mean though that the Dragon is surely part of the Holy school)

I'm just an ambassador, not a playtester, so I don't know anything that isn't public. That said, if you were paying attention back in January, there was a good amount of info suggesting the dragon is Holy (as opposed to ice, for instance):

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16410.msg62806;topicseen#msg62806

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16260.msg61293#msg61293

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16477.msg63818#msg63818

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=16275.0
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 25, 2016, 10:15:54 AM
Check out the set's promos!

>>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-promos)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 25, 2016, 10:26:37 AM
YES! The dragon is so awesome. As an ambassador and organizer of lots of charity events involving Arcane Wonders nothing makes me happier than naming this awesome creature after the absolute QUEEN OF CUSTOMER SERVICE Mrs. Alfiya Pope! She has saved my bacon so many times and is such a nice lady to boot!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 25, 2016, 11:10:50 AM
 :o

Lovely! The dragon is the first huge monster without being unstoppable. Probably because it flies.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 25, 2016, 11:16:29 AM
Holy ..!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 25, 2016, 12:04:57 PM
Oh my. So amazing.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 25, 2016, 12:27:34 PM
Gerard is not the coolest one in that list, but he is VERY strong! Looking at his base stats without the special ability, I'd say he is worth around 11 mana, so slightly overpriced, but he can increase your channeling by 1 or 2 or/and he can have a huge amount of piercing very fast! He will be amazing for a huge variaty of mages.  :o

I'm not sure about Eligor because, personally, I find counterstrike an overpriced ability for the existing creatures.
 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 25, 2016, 12:55:38 PM
The great part about Eligor is that any Melee bonus you give him is usable on counterstrike as well. So Melee bonuses make him less desirable to attack, which lets you continue to leverage their standard bonus. But I understand the desire to constantly attack and then counterattack.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 25, 2016, 01:19:38 PM
Friend of mine just put Eligor in her new Priestess book and I'm thinking I'll try him out as well.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 25, 2016, 02:10:18 PM
@Laddinface You said that the Dragon's attack affects everyone in the arena, but where does it say that the attack targets the entire board ?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 25, 2016, 02:12:12 PM
I'm surprised that Leviathan isn't a demon. Other legendary creatures named after biblical/mesopotamian demon/god are demons.

@Laddinface You said that the Dragon's attack affects everyone in the arena, but where does it say that the attack targets the entire board ?
Read whole sentence. Holy attack ability not holy attack.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 25, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
I'm surprised that Leviathan isn't a demon. Other legendary creatures named after biblical/mesopotamian demon/god are demons.

A leviathan was a great fish, hence he's a fish. If we make a behemoth it won't be a demon either ;-).
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 25, 2016, 02:34:05 PM
I'm surprised that Leviathan isn't a demon. Other legendary creatures named after biblical/mesopotamian demon/god are demons.

A leviathan was a great fish, hence he's a fish. If we make a behemoth it won't be a demon either ;-).

That is the least fishy-looking "fish" I think I've ever seen...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Schwenkgott on July 25, 2016, 02:42:14 PM
Once he was a fish ... until someone dropped a barrel of Ooze through the manhole cover.

(http://www.tshirtvortex.net/wp-content/uploads/trustme.jpg)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 25, 2016, 04:21:45 PM
Once he was a fish ... until someone dropped a barrel of Ooze through the manhole cover.

(http://www.tshirtvortex.net/wp-content/uploads/trustme.jpg)

Yeah Elusive is just what he needs hehehe.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: jacksmack on July 25, 2016, 05:14:05 PM
Those big baddies looks really delicious.

When sardonyx was revealed i was very displease, and couldnt see him work (which later turned out he does not).
These 2 seems very worthwile and interesting. Especially the holy dragon seems to have interesting combos, while the kraken is just a straight up killing machine.

edit:
Thought Leviathan was the kraken.  (all those arms?)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 25, 2016, 05:37:09 PM
Especially the holy dragon seems to have interesting combos, while the kraken is just a straight up killing machine.

The Kraken will be revealed later this week; this monster is probably puny compared to the god that is considred the Kraken.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: fas723 on July 25, 2016, 07:17:14 PM
Sorry if I will ruin the party now...but what about us who can't attend GenCon (like us European's for example)? When will we be able to get hold of these cards?

I know it has been told that there should be promos for everyone ordering the first wave in the past, but I have never seen any. Got some sent to me by the amazing Alfiya, but in the last sets I haven't bothered.

Laddinfance, will these be in the Lost Grimoare later this year?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 25, 2016, 08:02:14 PM
The Dragon is intense! Flying with that much health and armor! Also gives a fun way to go after resilient based books. The Priest just got a bit stronger with this. Couple it with Malakai's Basilica and you have a better chance to get the status effect you want!
Also Cassiel being a Cleric makes her a great opener and Alifa a fantastic reactionary creature on turn 3.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Gogolski on July 26, 2016, 12:53:04 AM
Sorry if I will ruin the party now...but what about us who can't attend GenCon (like us European's for example)? When will we be able to get hold of these cards?

I know it has been told that there should be promos for everyone ordering the first wave in the past, but I have never seen any. Got some sent to me by the amazing Alfiya, but in the last sets I haven't bothered.

Laddinfance, will these be in the Lost Grimoare later this year?
I know what you mean. I preordered Academy priestess and warlock about half a year ago in my local game store and the owner himself still has no clue when they will arrive. The (preordered!) academy baseset arrived about six months after the offical release date. (I'm not talking about the limited pre-release date on one convetion or another a few months before the street date)

I too wish distribution to all of Europe would be smoother... (it seems to work for Germany, why not for Belgium??) Well... they'll arrive eventually...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 26, 2016, 02:15:33 AM
yeah, same here. I got Beastmaster Vs Siren around 5/02 while it had been released much earlier. Still waiting for Priestess to arrive while I ordered it months ago as well.

With this amount of delay, I don't expect to see Paladin Vs Siren here before december.  :-\
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 26, 2016, 02:37:24 AM
My local store orders from two sources. UK and Germany. Things from germany, i think the distributor is called Brave New World, always arrived with Promos (those preordered). They got Priestess on their stock list when i was checking for a last time (two weeks back).

I think the Priestess was avilable in Germany two days before in America :)

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Erebus on July 26, 2016, 05:57:01 AM
I'll be honest, I'm going off to college in a few months and I'm a bit nervous. But with all this amazing content for Mage Wars being released soon, I feel especially excited for the future. Thanks for your hard work everyone! Now I just hope I'll have enough desk space to build spellbooks...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: steack on July 26, 2016, 06:23:25 AM
Amazing creatures 

for the levianthan

i imagine some combos with  the leviathan and the sirene , and have you see  the flies creatures has concerned by his hability ...

Effrayant !!!!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 27, 2016, 08:09:56 AM
Gogolski: Normally, Priestess should arrive here next thursday. So, a delay of 1.5 months. Annoying, but I think beastmaster vs wizard was worse.

I believe Siren will be released somewhere in october right? So with this delay we will have it at the end of november or the beginning of december. and warlock near the end of september.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Gogolski on July 27, 2016, 08:41:21 AM
Thanks for the the heads up, Halewijn. I was hoing to drop by at de spelgezel to check in half an hour, but you saved me the detour. :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 27, 2016, 09:22:09 AM
yeah, passed it anyway :p
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 28, 2016, 06:15:09 AM
Any idea when the Kraken will be released ;) ?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: V10lentray on July 28, 2016, 09:50:51 AM
Any idea when the Kraken will be released ;) ?

lol
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: krj on July 29, 2016, 05:01:27 AM
i like those 2 big Promo creatures a lot! but actually don't like the idea they are promo, so maybe not all people who buy PvS will get it :/
apart from that are they legal in tournaments :)? i guess not...


Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 29, 2016, 09:07:29 AM
The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 29, 2016, 09:08:41 AM
I assume after gen con, coshades video reviews will begin to come out.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 29, 2016, 09:13:35 AM
The promos are clearly marked as promo and are not tournament legal. This is exactly like all existing promos.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: V10lentray on July 29, 2016, 09:16:41 AM
The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies.

Which make it frustrating that they aren't legal if -"The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies"

I'm not saying they are even remotely playable in competive tournament play. But if I wanted to cast an 8 point - 24 mana dragon I should be able to.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 29, 2016, 09:20:59 AM
I assume after gen con, coshades video reviews will begin to come out.

We can hope. I'm picking my copy up and can't wait. Less than a week.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 29, 2016, 09:24:17 AM
The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies.

Which make it frustrating that they aren't legal if -"The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies"

I'm not saying they are even remotely playable in competive tournament play. But if I wanted to cast an 8 point - 24 mana dragon I should be able to.

Promo cards are good for casual play, so you can try them and get a feel for what it's like to play them and explore the ways it affects your local casual metagame so you can get your imagination going. A promo card is not meant to give you any sort of immediate or significant edge in competitive play.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 29, 2016, 09:27:09 AM
I just made a new Priestess book yesterday to try out the lazer cleric idea. I have no idea how I'm going to squeeze 8 spell points in when I get PvS but I know I'm going to try.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 29, 2016, 09:29:39 AM
The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies.

Which make it frustrating that they aren't legal if -"The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies"

I'm not saying they are even remotely playable in competive tournament play. But if I wanted to cast an 8 point - 24 mana dragon I should be able to.

Promo cards are good for casual play, so you can try them and get a feel for what it's like to play them and explore the ways it affects your local casual metagame so you can get your imagination going. A promo card is not meant to give you any sort of immediate or significant edge in competitive play.

That's not exactly his point. Anyway, I agree with V10lentray and don't understand why they are not simply a part of the set.

Previous promo's were by the way very strong (academy and domination). I even think blur should be nerfed a bit when it comes out.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on July 29, 2016, 10:53:56 AM
Quote from: Halewijn
Previous promo's were by the way very strong (academy and domination). I even think blur should be nerfed a bit when it comes out.

The official stance is that promos are no more or less likely to receive errata. You should also keep in mind though that whenever they do get released, the meta may have changed. There may be a lot more answers for a promo by the time it releases, making something that currently seems overpowered much more reasonable. If a promo is truly overpowered though, it will get errata just like any other overpowered card would.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on July 29, 2016, 11:02:20 AM
I know ;) would have doubted these words a couple of months ago but the wizard changes revived my confidence that they are not afraid to adress problems.

Im not sayin it is over the top or something. I just think it should cost a bit more mana to reveal and be level 2 mind.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: rant on July 29, 2016, 12:26:55 PM
I know ;) would have doubted these words a couple of months ago but the wizard changes revived my confidence that they are not afraid to adress problems.

Im not sayin it is over the top or something. I just think it should cost a bit more mana to reveal and be level 2 mind.

Agreed. Blur makes cloak of shadows obsolete. -2 to light isn't worth the 4 extra mana.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on July 29, 2016, 01:24:19 PM
You probably never been hit by Paladin :)

Also, every time you get hit, you have to pay 1 mana or drop Blur. It doesnt seem much but when you pay 5 mana for "nothing" you have to revaluate :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 29, 2016, 02:24:49 PM
The promos come in the box so everyone gets copies.
Everyone or just those who buy first printing?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 29, 2016, 02:58:08 PM
Dragon and Leviathan should be in each.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 29, 2016, 03:02:01 PM
It's just the first printing. However, every copy that we have right now is the first printing.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 29, 2016, 03:28:09 PM
I assume kracken is today?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 29, 2016, 03:55:18 PM
yes, here in a little bit.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on July 29, 2016, 05:01:58 PM
The Kraken (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-release-the-kraken) is out today. Enjoy.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 29, 2016, 07:12:44 PM
The Kraken (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-release-the-kraken) is out today. Enjoy.

So it was written, so it was foretold.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 29, 2016, 08:18:44 PM
The Kraken (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/paladin-vs-siren-release-the-kraken) is out today. Enjoy.

Love the Kraken; very well created!

Unfortunately was not as powerfull as I hoped, and was really hoping for bigger traits to help out the fact that it's very slow. Also disappointed that the Sherrean Leviathan is way more powerfull than a card that was so hyped up until now, and doesn't feel to me as if the Kraken is on equal footing to its counterpart.

Anyways, still very excited by the fact that the Siren will have loads of powerfull creatures to experiment with.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on July 29, 2016, 09:01:09 PM
The kracken still is a boss, and is going to dominate under the right cercumstances.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on July 29, 2016, 09:59:47 PM
The Leviathan is definitely harder to kill, with 1 more Armor, 5 more Life, Tough -3, and Hydro -3. It also has the spiffy Unstoppable trait, but I don't think that makes a huge difference on slow creatures. It actually makes it harder for it's controlling mage to put it in position because you also can't use pushes on it. Teleports are a must.

So what does the Kraken have in it's favor? Easy. Tentacle Grasp. Don't underestimate a ranged attack on a slow creature that can pull targets back into the zone when they attempt to escape. Much easier than chasing them around. And then the new grapple mechanic will keep them there. The Kraken is a lot easier to maneuver around and harder to get away from than the Leviathan and thus will be able to do damage much more consistently. If your opponent comes within one zone, you can grab them without using any other spells. Your opponent can probably just kite the Leviathan without too much trouble, but will have much more problems doing so against the Kraken.

Their main attacks are comparable. 7 Dice with Pierce +2 and 6 Dice with Pierce +3 ain't a big difference in my opinion. You might get on the fact that the Leviathan's is a Quick Action and can be used with guard, but again the Kraken can grapple a creature. Then that creature CAN'T attack anyone other than the Kraken, not even with sweeping attacks, and the creature suffers a -2 penalty to attacks made against the Kraken. The grapple also can't be "broken" by a tiny creature to let a big critter through. You choose the target and can make sure the biggest threat is neutralized. That's a much better guard in my opinion. And the quick action doesn't really matter when moving because they're both slow. Although, if you do give them Fast to counteract the slow, a Quick Action Ranged attack on the Kraken is still more desirable to me as that gives him AMAZING access to the board. Anything within two zones can be in his grasp, and elusive kiters really can't get away then.

So, you trade a bit of survivability, for much better control and more consistent damage.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on July 30, 2016, 12:35:01 AM
The Leviathan is definitely harder to kill, with 1 more Armor, 5 more Life, Tough -3, and Hydro -3. It also has the spiffy Unstoppable trait, but I don't think that makes a huge difference on slow creatures. It actually makes it harder for it's controlling mage to put it in position because you also can't use pushes on it. Teleports are a must.

So what does the Kraken have in it's favor? Easy. Tentacle Grasp. Don't underestimate a ranged attack on a slow creature that can pull targets back into the zone when they attempt to escape. Much easier than chasing them around. And then the new grapple mechanic will keep them there. The Kraken is a lot easier to maneuver around and harder to get away from than the Leviathan and thus will be able to do damage much more consistently. If your opponent comes within one zone, you can grab them without using any other spells. Your opponent can probably just kite the Leviathan without too much trouble, but will have much more problems doing so against the Kraken.

Their main attacks are comparable. 7 Dice with Pierce +2 and 6 Dice with Pierce +3 ain't a big difference in my opinion. You might get on the fact that the Leviathan's is a Quick Action and can be used with guard, but again the Kraken can grapple a creature. Then that creature CAN'T attack anyone other than the Kraken, not even with sweeping attacks, and the creature suffers a -2 penalty to attacks made against the Kraken. The grapple also can't be "broken" by a tiny creature to let a big critter through. You choose the target and can make sure the biggest threat is neutralized. That's a much better guard in my opinion. And the quick action doesn't really matter when moving because they're both slow. Although, if you do give them Fast to counteract the slow, a Quick Action Ranged attack on the Kraken is still more desirable to me as that gives him AMAZING access to the board. Anything within two zones can be in his grasp, and elusive kiters really can't get away then.

So, you trade a bit of survivability, for much better control and more consistent damage.

More importantly, the Kraken can fly with Eagle Wings.

I know what you're saying, "The Leviathan can too!" Ya well a flying fish is nothing compared to a flying octopus snatching your creature over wall of thorns, or whatever wall you have, and then holding your pitiful creatures while they cry and soil themselves because it just got real! ;D

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on July 30, 2016, 10:06:40 AM
Grapple is really going to shake up Domination.  It's kind of like having creatures with built-in Tanglevines.  And Kraken is like a Vine Snatcher with a built-in Tanglevine (not to mention a 6-dice +3 piercing attack against creatures in his zone).  Kraken is going to be a frightening counter to Fast/Elusive ... e.g. Cervere's worst nightmare!

Snatching your creature through a Bloodspine Wall and dragging it into a Shallow Sea to unleash a full attack with Aquatic bonuses... Scary stuff!!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on July 30, 2016, 10:40:10 AM
Not to mention what can be waiting on the other side. Bloodspine Walls create Bleed and Bleed tokens attract Sharks....
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on July 30, 2016, 12:46:55 PM
When sitting in a Shallow Sea those base attacks are 1 die higher and hitting them back is 1 die less also.

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Coshade on July 30, 2016, 01:45:29 PM
When sitting in a Shallow Sea those base attacks are 1 die higher and hitting them back is 1 die less also.

This is the most deceptive thing for people new to Siren. It gives you a pretty amazing advantage with Grapple.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on July 30, 2016, 02:35:44 PM
After seeing Leviathan and Kraken I'm glad that the Wizard was changed the way he was. He would laugh in the Siren's face otherwise and her player would consider not casting aquatic terrain at all.

Nice move for the Siren would be Summoning Circle in the zone with enemy Spawnpoint and summoning Leviathan there as last thing in turn followed by Shallow Sea next QC phase.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ganpot on July 30, 2016, 05:49:10 PM
Unfortunately was not as powerfull as I hoped, and was really hoping for bigger traits to help out the fact that it's very slow. Also disappointed that the Sherrean Leviathan is way more powerfull than a card that was so hyped up until now, and doesn't feel to me as if the Kraken is on equal footing to its counterpart.
Agreed.  For being teased so much, I was expecting something a little more... unique, I guess.  Don't get me wrong, I like the new grapple mechanic, but the Kraken doesn't seem all that much better than the (non-legendary) Drokarr except for some added health. 

The excerpt "A creature can be the grappler in several Grapple conditions (it can hold onto multiple preys), as long as it has a separate attack with the Grapple trait for each prey it is holding." from the new grapple rules seems like something that would be perfect for the legendary Kraken, but unless I'm reading it wrong the Kraken can still only hold onto a single target at a time, despite being an octopus and having 8 massive legs.  (I'm not suggesting allowing for 8 grapples, but 2-4 would be a nice way to set it apart.) 

There's actually another thing that bothers me about the Kraken.  It itself is not in any way immune to being grappled by other creatures, which is kind of silly.  Can you imagine a semi-regular dude just hugging a Kraken and being like "Guys, don't worry, I got this"?  Surely it thematically deserves the Uncontainable trait?

Personally, I can't see very many situations in which I would rather use the Kraken over the Leviathan.  They both cost almost the same amount of mana and spellpoints, but the Leviathan is noticeably harder to kill (and soften up with conditions) and can disable more creatures at a time.  The only time the Kraken really shines is against a solo or large buddy mage (although both creatures are arguably roughly as good against buddy builds).   
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 30, 2016, 06:09:29 PM
I don't know it looks like the leviathan and the Kraken would combo well together...


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Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Ganpot on July 30, 2016, 06:37:51 PM
I don't know it looks like the leviathan and the Kraken would combo well together...
Maybe, but then we're talking 43 mana invested purely in 2 creatures (more if you want to buff them).  That's not a particularly fast or unpredictable strategy, so your opponent should be able to think up some way to deal with it.  A well-timed Banish or Sleep would almost definitely cost you the game. 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on July 30, 2016, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: Ganpot
the Leviathan is noticeably harder to kill (and soften up with conditions) and can disable more creatures at a time.

I tend to dislike conversations about "well, if you do that, I can do this" because I do think there's an answer to everything in Mage Wars and these discussions are without point or end. However, I do think it may be useful to compare the Leviathan's restrain ability to the new Grapple mechanic, and some possible answers to both of them.

A big pro in the Leviathan's favor is that it's ability does affect multiple creatures whereas the Kraken's grapple only affects one creature. However, I wouldn't call these creatures "disabled" by the Leviathan's ability. They are merely Restrained. The creature grappled by the Kraken, however, becomes Restrained, Unmovable, can't attack other creatures besides the Kraken with non-spell attacks, can't use ranged non-spell attacks at all, and suffers a -2 penalty to it's melee attacks. A much greater disability.

Both of these effects can be countered with a teleport or banish. The Kraken's Grapple is also broken if the Kraken becomes incapacitated, and the prey gets a chance to escape after each of its actions (though the Kraken is likely to reestablish the Grapple afterwards). Meanwhile, the Leviathan's ability can be countered with Push effects. Not on the Leviathan of course, as he is Unstoppable, but on the victims. Restrained does not make them Unmovable. You can also completely eliminate the ability by replacing the terrain with one of your own.

Some interesting things about the Leviathan's ability. It still works if he's incapacitated, so a sleeping Leviathan will continue to restrain creatures. It also works against fliers, grabbing them right out of the sky and dragging them down into the depths. The Kraken can of course also grab fliers, but the passive nature of the Leviathan's ability means that no fliers will be traveling through his zone, as long as it has an Aquatic Terrain attached. Grapple can of course work on Mages though while the Leviathan's ability can not, and usually it's the enemy Mage that I'm really wanting to stop moving.

They are both very cool creatures imo. The Leviathan would definitely rock against a Spawnpoint if you can get him in the same zone and get some Aquatic terrain into that zone. Meanwhile the Kraken is a lot less dependent on proper positioning. They're both awesome.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on July 30, 2016, 07:30:32 PM
Unfortunately was not as powerfull as I hoped, and was really hoping for bigger traits to help out the fact that it's very slow. Also disappointed that the Sherrean Leviathan is way more powerfull than a card that was so hyped up until now, and doesn't feel to me as if the Kraken is on equal footing to its counterpart.
Agreed.  For being teased so much, I was expecting something a little more... unique, I guess.  Don't get me wrong, I like the new grapple mechanic, but the Kraken doesn't seem all that much better than the (non-legendary) Drokarr except for some added health. 

There's actually another thing that bothers me about the Kraken.  It itself is not in any way immune to being grappled by other creatures, which is kind of silly.  Can you imagine a semi-regular dude just hugging a Kraken and being like "Guys, don't worry, I got this"?  Surely it thematically deserves the Uncontainable trait?

Personally, I can't see very many situations in which I would rather use the Kraken over the Leviathan.  They both cost almost the same amount of mana and spellpoints, but the Leviathan is noticeably harder to kill (and soften up with conditions) and can disable more creatures at a time.  The only time the Kraken really shines is against a solo or large buddy mage (although both creatures are arguably roughly as good against buddy builds).

Agreed; while the Kraken is a cool creature, it none the less feels as if it's toned down, perhaps a little too much. While it realistically doesn't make sense, I think that this Kraken is not the same as the one in Pirates in the Caribbean, and it is therefore not too heavy to grapple in itself. {Think about it, it doesn't make sense, but Sosruko could kill your mage if he wanted to}

Good point; I would use the Kraken to drag the opponent mage and then attack them, but the Leviathan is just simply better for prolonged melee fighting.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 01, 2016, 01:52:24 PM
Just a reminder that a water trained wizard can also toy around with a lot of the new Siren stuff.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on August 01, 2016, 01:57:46 PM
Just a reminder that a water trained wizard can also toy around with a lot of the new Siren stuff.

Arcane Wonders posted an update to the Wizard and the Wizard's Tower. You can find it >>HERE<< (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/wizard-ability-card-and-wizards-tower-errata). So now, you cannot have a water Wizard, there is just the Wizard.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Gogolski on August 01, 2016, 02:00:17 PM
Very soon the water wizard will be back! She is called the siren.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 01, 2016, 04:51:07 PM
Anyone think we might get some mana anemones /edit (Mananemones)/ or something like that for the siren? What would its perk be? The mana flower has regenerate and the mana crystal has some toughness to it, maybe the anemone would have some interaction where it would grant channeling +2 but only be able to exist where aquatic terrain was present...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on August 01, 2016, 07:57:05 PM
Anyone think we might get some mana anemones /edit (Mananemones)/ or something like that for the siren? What would its perk be? The mana flower has regenerate and the mana crystal has some toughness to it, maybe the anemone would have some interaction where it would grant channeling +2 but only be able to exist where aquatic terrain was present...

Sea anemones trap small fish and eat them, don't they? Maybe it could be like a sacrificial altar, but instead of gaining a melee and piercing bonus, it gets you mana.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: fas723 on August 05, 2016, 01:45:26 AM
The set must be out now? Where is the compleate card pool spoiler?  ::)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Biblofilter on August 05, 2016, 05:12:51 AM
I can confirm that the set is out.

I even got hammered yesterday vs Coshades Priest with my Siren.

Love Siren and all the mechanics around her - will have to work with her a bit.

Im probably going to hate Paladin and all other holy mages for a while.

Pictures well I guess people are busy gaming atm?

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on August 05, 2016, 05:16:13 AM
What kind of hate? The competitive-fun kinda hate or really having some issues with some of the new cards?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on August 05, 2016, 06:41:37 AM
Biblofilter is referring to the fun competitive hate lol. I know for certain he's  no issue running holy.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on August 05, 2016, 12:44:34 PM
I just got to play a real cardboard game with my buddy to finally test out some of the new cards from priestess Academy. White cloak knight is my new favorite holy avenger by FAR! I simply cannot wait to fill this book out more when i get PvS!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on August 05, 2016, 01:23:14 PM
Love Siren and all the mechanics around her - will have to work with her a bit.

Im probably going to hate Paladin and all other holy mages for a while.

Pictures well I guess people are busy gaming atm?

Yes, next week will probably be the week of the spoilers  ;D

Glad to hear that the Siren has great mechanics all well as a certain challenge to her playstyle. She will for sure be the next mage I play, and she might actually be fun against the Warlord and Beastmaster.

One thing I gotta ask though: did you use Naiya, the Siren's familiar? I remember seeing the spoiler and noticing that she was a bit weak, but her powers overcame that weakness; would like to know how you played her.
 
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Biblofilter on August 05, 2016, 04:13:06 PM
Ive got real mana crippled. Besides I didn't put Dispels or Dissolves in the book.
I was almost just playing the suggested spellbook and that have a couple of those.


It would not have mattered - Coshades Priest rocks after PvS and Priestess Academy.

Still Siren will be real fun for a Wallpusher like me :)

Songs pretty cool. You might wanna play Paladin for a time to stop people playing non-living things and then gp to Siren to make living things bleed.

Some of those 9 mana channeling mages doesn't look weak to me.

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 06, 2016, 06:50:38 PM
So on the Siren's ability card it says at the end of the Siren's Call explanation that friendly aquatic creatures get melee + 2. Is that just a constant passive to her or is that an effect that only happens when her call marker is out? Also, does that include herself? 0_o

Also in my home brew of this game shallow sea is going to be called puddle of doom.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on August 07, 2016, 01:27:08 AM
Its a effect of a song. If it was constant passive, it would have its own ability space and name in Bold :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: theasaris on August 07, 2016, 01:29:28 AM
As the sentence is part of the description of "Siren's Call", melee +2 is granted only to the friendly creature that received the Call marker.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 07, 2016, 02:37:51 PM
When will the rest of pvs be spoiled.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 07, 2016, 05:25:17 PM
As the sentence is part of the description of "Siren's Call", melee +2 is granted only to the friendly creature that received the Call marker.

Ah, thanks. Since it just out of the blue said "Friendly aquatic creatures also gain melee +2" I was like, is that always? Just when her marker's out on an enemy? I didn't think that that was when you put it on an allied creature.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 10, 2016, 03:12:25 PM
So does anyone know when we'll be seeing the rest of PvS's card pool?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 10, 2016, 03:22:48 PM
biblofilter has been posting a lot of the cards. Look in spellbook desgin and construction.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on August 10, 2016, 03:24:26 PM
There was an info, that coshade or sharkbait will be doing some sort of unboxing video or doing review of unspoiled caards :) Wait until next monday :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on August 10, 2016, 04:17:22 PM
90% of the fun of a spoiler is seeing the art to me. So, although I really appreciate the text of biblofiler, I really still want to see them all.

Best case, a written review. I find it nicer than a video.  :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on August 10, 2016, 04:26:26 PM
There are videos coming.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on August 10, 2016, 04:43:56 PM
Ring of the Ocean's Depth            Mana, Ring          Water L1

2 0-2 Mage

Water Mage Only

"Once per round, this Mage may pay 1 less mana when he or she cast or reveals a hydro or aquatic spell. Enchantments only receive this discount when they are revealed."

-----------------------------

Echo of the Depths          Horn, Instrument       Water L3

12 q 0-2 Mage

Spawnpoint * Siren Only * Epic

"While you control a song enchantment, Echo of the Depths gains Channeling +1. During the deployment Phase, it may summon 1 water creature. If Echo of the Depths would be destroyed by an opponent's spell or effect, prevent that destruction, unless your opponent pays 2 mana for each song+ enchantment you control."

-----------------------------------------------
I can imagine Siren having some songs facedown just to be revealed after enemy tries to dissolve Echo of the Depths.

Chant of Rage                Enchantment     Psychic, Song  Dark OR Mind L1

2 / X  q 0-2  Non-Mage Living Creature

Dissipate 2 * Unique

Chant of Rage cannot be revealed during the an Action Phase, When Chant of Rage is revealed, place a Hate token on one of your creatures. During its activation, the enchanted creature must melee attack a creature with a Hate token. If it cannot then it most move towards a creature with a hate token, if possible. When this spell is destroyed, destroy a Hate token in play on a friendly creature, if possible. X = enchanted creature's Level -1

-----------------------------------------------------

Song of Love                        Enchantment  Psychic, Song

2 / X  q 0-2 Non-Mage Creatures               Holy OR Mind L1

Dissipate 2 * Unique

"Song of Love cannot be revealed during an Action Phase. When Song of Love is revealed, place a Love token on a friendly creature. Enchanted creature cannot make a melee or ranged attack against a creature with a Love token. When this spell is destroyed, destroy a Love token in play on a friendly creature, if possible. X = enchanted creatures Level -1

Putting Hate tokens on Blood Demon or other flying creature seems like a nice thing to do.

After seeing those songs I like that there's nothing that's similar to Warlock's Curseweaving ability but with songs instead of curses.

Swell                     Hydro Water L1

4 q 0-2 Non-Flying Creature or Conjuration.

ranged water 3 dice d12 7+ = Push  Extinguish, Unavoidable
This attack with both Water rings is the most mana efficient attack spell. For 3 mana You get 4 dice and 5+ push which can give at least another 3 dice.


Whirlpool                            Hydro  Water L3

12 q 0-1 Aquatic Terrain

Dissipate 3 * Epic

"All non-Flying, non-Aquatic creatures in the zone gain the Restrained and Unmovable traits. During the Upkeep Phase, they receive 2 direct hydro damage. Remove all Burn conditions from creatures damage from Whirlpool. Uncontainable creatures are not affected by Whirlpool."
I noticed that Whirlpool won't remove burn tokens from Hydro immune creatures.
I have similar issue with High ground terrain as it doesn't seem to block LoS if it goes through two opposite corners.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: RomeoXero on August 10, 2016, 06:17:56 PM
Any body else think that tsunami is going to ruin battleforge plays the world over? I think it's going to be really interesting, a full arena long attack spell? Yes please!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on August 10, 2016, 06:54:45 PM
I don't know if Tsunami will ruin battleforge. What's Tsunami's cost and casting range?
There's really big need for either unmovable or tough traits. Tsunami can push a creature and attack it again in next zone. It can attack 4 zones and push through/into walls. That's at least 15 dice if creature gets pushed 4 times.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Milevan_Faent on August 10, 2016, 06:56:04 PM
I don't know if Tsunami will ruin battleforge. What's Tsunami's cost and casting range?
There's really big need for either unmovable or tough traits. Tsunami can push a creature and attack it again in next zone. It can attack 4 zones and push through/into walls. That's at least 15 dice if creature gets pushed 4 times.

Wouldn't armor counter that damage a lot though?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 10, 2016, 07:10:05 PM
6 dice is still good.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 11, 2016, 01:46:16 AM
Someone know if you get some copies of surging wave with PvS?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on August 11, 2016, 03:40:40 AM
I'm 90% sure there won't be a copy of surging wave in it. Arcane Wonders tries add new, original spells every set instead of reprinting older cards.

Example: Streamline in the warlock apprentice set instead of flameblast.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 11, 2016, 04:02:00 AM
I'm 90% sure there won't be a copy of surging wave in it. Arcane Wonders tries add new, original spells every set instead of reprinting older cards.

Example: Streamline in the warlock apprentice set instead of flameblast.

Druid vs Necromancer came with another copy of Mohktari and a couple of Tanglevines. I think it could be possible. Plus it's just a fitting card to have in there for the blue lady, she has a tsunami (or so I've heard) but what would she be without a simple wave attack?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on August 11, 2016, 10:21:47 AM
I'm 90% sure there won't be a copy of surging wave in it. Arcane Wonders tries add new, original spells every set instead of reprinting older cards.

Example: Streamline in the warlock apprentice set instead of flameblast.

Plus it's just a fitting card to have in there for the blue lady, she has a tsunami (or so I've heard) but what would she be without a simple wave attack?

I understand if you don't have Conquest of Kumanjaro, but she already has 6 Surging Wave cards in that set, which still gives her a solid attack lineup. What she needs more than anything is a multitude of sea creatures, and by the look of it she's fully packed  ;) 8)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 11, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
I'm 90% sure there won't be a copy of surging wave in it. Arcane Wonders tries add new, original spells every set instead of reprinting older cards.

Example: Streamline in the warlock apprentice set instead of flameblast.

Plus it's just a fitting card to have in there for the blue lady, she has a tsunami (or so I've heard) but what would she be without a simple wave attack?

I understand if you don't have Conquest of Kumanjaro, but she already has 6 Surging Wave cards in that set, which still gives her a solid attack lineup. What she needs more than anything is a multitude of sea creatures, and by the look of it she's fully packed  ;) 8)

Yeah I haven't picked up Conquest of Kumanjaro yet. She'd only be able to have a max of six even if PvS included six more. I'm really just hoping for 3-4 copies anyways just so that hole in my deck can be filled  without having to get a whole spell tome expansion I don't really want. I'm going to look into there being a way to get individual cards on amazon/eBay etc. For some reason I'm just fixated on that card.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on August 11, 2016, 02:50:28 PM
There are zero surging waves in Paladin vs Siren.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 11, 2016, 03:22:43 PM
Aww
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on August 18, 2016, 06:48:07 PM
Any idea when this expansion will be avaible for pre-order ?
Title: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on August 18, 2016, 07:27:10 PM
Aww

You might not need surging waves for your siren spellbooks though. Maybe you should try playing with her to see how you'd like to play her before you buy an expansion you don't really want for attack spells you don't particularly need in your siren spellbooks. She'll have plenty of options, I kinda doubt you'll really miss surging wave if you make a siren spellbook that doesn't need it.

Now that I think of it, I'd probably like to do something with surging wave on an elemental wand. Siren's call ability works on mages right? I could make them move towards me get rid of their armor if they put any on, put on some armor of my own, and just surging wave them over and over again until they die. Daze rolls help protect my Mage from being hit back and if they have a defense, being incapacitated opens them up for other more powerful attacks immediately after the surging wave.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 18, 2016, 07:41:03 PM
Non mage creatures.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on August 18, 2016, 08:39:46 PM
Aww

You might not need surging waves for your siren spellbooks though. Maybe you should try playing with her to see how you'd like to play her before you buy an expansion you don't really want for attack spells you don't particularly need in your siren spellbooks. She'll have plenty of options, I kinda doubt you'll really miss surging wave if you make a siren spellbook that doesn't need it.

Now that I think of it, I'd probably like to do something with surging wave on an elemental wand. Siren's call ability works on mages right? I could make them move towards me get rid of their armor if they put any on, put on some armor of my own, and just surging wave them over and over again until they die. Daze rolls help protect my Mage from being hit back and if they have a defense, being incapacitated opens them up for other more powerful attacks immediately after the surging wave.

Tsunamis or Merren Harpooners could keep you covered in that department.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: wtcannonjr on August 19, 2016, 06:05:13 AM
Any idea when this expansion will be avaible for pre-order ?
online retailer Coolstuff Inc. is already taking pre-orders for this and the new Lost Grimoire expansion.

I had to order more card sleeves too to prepare for all the new spells arriving in my card pool. ☺
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on August 19, 2016, 09:00:22 AM
Any idea when this expansion will be avaible for pre-order ?
online retailer Coolstuff Inc. is already taking pre-orders for this and the new Lost Grimoire expansion.

I know that, but one of the moderators told me that CoolStuff Inc and other 3rd part sites are all getting their products once the product is officialy on store shelves; so what I would like to know is when I can buy the expansion via the Arcane Wonders store, so that I can get it earlier.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on August 19, 2016, 09:25:48 AM
Pre-orders on the AW store begin in September.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on August 19, 2016, 10:41:33 AM
Played my first 2 games as the Siren. The books weren't really built to be high-level competitive but just to get a feel and it is tough to play. Board positioning, timing, knowing where and when to save mana and what spawnpoints/familiar to use and when...gonna be a fun book to test and figure out the ideal strategy.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 19, 2016, 10:43:57 AM
Where did you get a copy? Or is it on Octgn?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Milevan_Faent on August 19, 2016, 10:46:47 AM
Where did you get a copy? Or is it on Octgn?

definitely not on OCTGN yet.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on August 19, 2016, 01:58:58 PM
Where did you get a copy? Or is it on Octgn?

The Devil had a friend at Gen Con.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 19, 2016, 02:04:04 PM
Aha!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on August 19, 2016, 02:11:20 PM
Where did you get a copy? Or is it on Octgn?

The Devil had a friend at Gen Con.

Now someone needs to write a parody called "The Devil went down to Indy"
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: DevilsVendetta on August 19, 2016, 02:26:42 PM
The parody could become reality next year. Hoping to make it to GenCon finally.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 19, 2016, 02:50:26 PM
Me too!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: scythe0925 on August 20, 2016, 06:22:13 PM
This set is so good. I can post pics tomorrow if you need. (Buddy at Gencon)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 20, 2016, 06:28:12 PM
This set is so good. I can post pics tomorrow if you need. (Buddy at Gencon)
Please!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: scythe0925 on August 20, 2016, 10:52:02 PM
Better idea. I'll do a video review!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on August 21, 2016, 08:47:08 AM
Better idea. I'll do a video review!

Yesss !! Will be patient today  ;D
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 21, 2016, 09:11:16 AM
Post the link up!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: scythe0925 on August 22, 2016, 12:39:08 AM
Alright here ya go!

https://youtu.be/VeoYBqyDzZg (https://youtu.be/VeoYBqyDzZg)
https://youtu.be/kIbriUdOWXE (https://youtu.be/kIbriUdOWXE)

Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on August 22, 2016, 07:25:30 AM
First of all, I really enjoy the entire deptonne/pirate theme. The pirates look and feel a lot nicer than I expected. (Mentrana looks the least fun) I can't help but just think of those fish like/undead pirates from "Pirates of the Carribean 2 and 3". Also, Thorghut and blighthearth look amazing!

But I was wondering:

Why would the Siren choose the pirates over the deptonne? The wreck is Obvious, but it seems small compared to the other effects.

1) no immunity/advantages of the water terrain.
2) not hydro immune. (tsunami)
3) Psychic immune, so no songs to buff them

Also, with all those terrain effects I feel a rise of flying creatures.
Just epic! I love the fact that the battles will become much more three dimensional!

Also, Artemis is awesome! And Dorseus!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: scythe0925 on August 22, 2016, 08:10:22 AM
Yeah, my siren will be sharks all day. However some of those skeletons might slip into my necromancer.

Flyers were deff an issue. I will be adding some slam effects for sure!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 22, 2016, 08:31:45 AM
Thanks! Yes, flyers seem to be a problem. Right now the only water attack spell that can hit them is geyser.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Bluebaron on August 22, 2016, 09:09:41 AM
Great, thanks for the videos. Good to finally see all these awesome cards.

Alright here ya go!

https://youtu.be/VeoYBqyDzZg (https://youtu.be/VeoYBqyDzZg)
https://youtu.be/kIbriUdOWXE (https://youtu.be/kIbriUdOWXE)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Borg on August 22, 2016, 09:31:09 AM
Also, with all those terrain effects I feel a rise of flying creatures.
Just epic! I love the fact that the battles will become much more three dimensional!

Gravikor might make it into Siren books then ...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baronzaltor on August 22, 2016, 02:05:35 PM
Thanks! Yes, flyers seem to be a problem. Right now the only water attack spell that can hit them is geyser.
And Acid Ball, as well as the Wave Blast ranged attack built into her trident.  Hydrothermal Vent gets triggered by flyers too.  She can also use Lulliby and Drown on Flyers.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on August 22, 2016, 02:21:40 PM
Yes all of those too! :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: farkas1 on August 22, 2016, 06:26:01 PM
After viewing the spoilers I am very impressed with all the cards that were not previously spoiled!  Couple of things I thought for sure Siren would overshadow the Paladin because of the lack of water school spells prior to PvS release.  However the Paladin's  deck  have some of my most anticipated cards.  Here are my top favorites that I am most excited to play with.... and not just use them in Paladin or Siren decks only despite a few cards that maybe listed as (___ Mage only).

Tsunami
lesser Teleport
Pillar of Righteous Flame
Eye for an Eye
luminous Blast
Blind
life link

Crusador Griffin
Dorseus (awesome unicorn)
Casseil
Dawnbreakers Intiate
Alandell  Blue Knight
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on August 22, 2016, 06:58:07 PM
Dorseaus is legit. I'm still hammering out my Paladin book. My Siren is VERY rough still.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baglio88 on August 26, 2016, 07:30:07 AM
I just realized something. Lesser Teleport only targets the creature, not the zone, so you should be able to teleport a (friendly) creature behind a wall, regardless of LoS. Is that really the case?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kharhaz on August 26, 2016, 08:03:58 AM
I just realized something. Lesser Teleport only targets the creature, not the zone, so you should be able to teleport a (friendly) creature behind a wall, regardless of LoS. Is that really the case?

All targeting still requires LoS.

lesser teleport says, "teleported to a target zone up to 1 zone away"

So you still LoS to the zone it is going.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baglio88 on August 26, 2016, 08:16:12 AM
Thank you. It seemed too good to be true
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on August 26, 2016, 08:19:41 AM
However, the Creature you are teleporting doesn't need LoS...Just you as the caster.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on September 02, 2016, 01:31:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR4NdznSKPQ

Finally
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on September 02, 2016, 01:40:45 PM
Sometimes i feel that Mr. Vassel is just talking about games, not truly playing them. To be able to state that Mage Wars Arena is between 20-30 minutes, that Suffocate is a new condition, casting Knights Courage on Paladin or that in description, he is talking about Academy. That probably explained that short gaming time. Theres more.

I am waiting for arcane duels :)

Just hoping that all other videos was not posponded just so Dice Tower could be the first one to "review" it.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on September 02, 2016, 01:47:56 PM
Yes, he makes many minor errors. (btw, suffocate IS new right?)

Also, he calls many cards weak because he doesn't understand them. Like in the academy priestess video:
He calls blessed focus an dumb card while it is amazing to draw hate on a regenerating or huge creature.

btw: blessed focus is amazing. Really liked it when using it.

But, you know, Tom is like a board game guru..  :P
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on September 02, 2016, 01:52:23 PM
suffocate is a new condition.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Boocheck on September 02, 2016, 03:12:28 PM
Removable?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on September 02, 2016, 03:20:09 PM
yes, but it works kinda weirdly.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Donovan on September 02, 2016, 03:34:37 PM
Reduces life instead of increasing damage.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on September 02, 2016, 03:45:29 PM
Codex:

Suffocate (Condition Marker)
This condition represents a creature being strangled, choked, or unable to breathe. For each Suffocate marker on a creature, or on a conjuration, enchantment, or condition attached to that creature, that creature has Life -2. The Suffocate condition only affects Living creatures. Each Suffocate marker has a removal cost of 2.

Drown: enchantmen, 2/1 mana cost
Upkeep = number of suffocate markers
During each upkeep, add 1 suffocate.


Am I correct that this is how it works?
- Creature with 15 life has 3 suffocate markers.
- During upkeep, the Siren pays 3 mana and adds a suffocate afterwards.
- The creature thus has 7 life left.
- The owner of the creature dispells it for 3 mana.
- The Creature is completely healed

If the creature would die by adding a suffocate marker first during upkeep, you do not have to pay an upkeep cost?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Laddinfance on September 02, 2016, 04:01:06 PM
you choose the order you pay the upkeep and add the Suffocate marker.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on September 03, 2016, 03:16:08 AM
I'm not a big immunity fan because I think it's weird how something can be completely unaffected by a particular element. Like, why would a Vine Snapper not feel the force of a tsunami? I prefer  hydro -2/3 over hydro immunity because it shows resistance but not complete immunity.

Yesterday I noticed that most of the Siren's cards do NOT have immunity, even though I expected them all to have it. I like this a lot, but it is kind of weird why the Coral barrier is not hydro immune, but the Bloodspine Wall, and all other plants, are immune.  :)

edit: Totally understand and pro water elemental hydro immunity.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baglio88 on September 03, 2016, 04:00:24 AM
I'm not a big immunity fan because I think it's weird how something can be completely unaffected by a particular element. Like, why would a Vine Snapper not feel the force of a tsunami? I prefer  hydro -2/3 over hydro immunity because it shows resistance but not complete immunity.


Same thing I was thinking. Water attacks work on impact, so it's natural that plants have some kinde of resistance being rooted and everything, but they should still be affected by some of that impact.
My guess is that the siren wil suffer against the druid. Even the sharks' bleed conditions won't work.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: drmambo23 on September 03, 2016, 06:57:53 AM
As far as spoilers, dice tower has a pvs review up now

https://youtu.be/VR4NdznSKPQ
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on September 03, 2016, 09:44:56 AM
Why does elephant grass have life if it's terrain?
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: baglio88 on September 03, 2016, 10:41:04 AM
Why does elephant grass have life if it's terrain?

Well it makes sense thematically. You can't get rid of a pool of water or a hill by attacking it, but you can cut (or burn) a bunch of grass.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on September 03, 2016, 12:20:46 PM
Why does elephant grass have life if it's terrain?

Well it makes sense thematically. You can't get rid of a pool of water or a hill by attacking it, but you can cut (or burn) a bunch of grass.
Attack a hill with a shovel and You can level it or use a meteorite and do it faster. ;)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Reddicediaries on September 03, 2016, 01:49:32 PM
I hope the AD view come out soon. Just have to wait I guess.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on September 03, 2016, 04:29:50 PM
I hope the AD view come out soon. Just have to wait I guess.

Honestly, I'm more anxious for when they can actually put this darn expansion set for pre-order on their website  ;D  :-\
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on September 03, 2016, 08:50:39 PM
Why does elephant grass have life if it's terrain?

Well it makes sense thematically. You can't get rid of a pool of water or a hill by attacking it, but you can cut (or burn) a bunch of grass.
Attack a hill with a shovel and You can level it or use a meteorite and do it faster. ;)

Not all meteorites have enough mass and momentum to level the hill by the time they get through the atmosphere.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kaarin on September 04, 2016, 05:24:23 AM
Why does elephant grass have life if it's terrain?

Well it makes sense thematically. You can't get rid of a pool of water or a hill by attacking it, but you can cut (or burn) a bunch of grass.
Attack a hill with a shovel and You can level it or use a meteorite and do it faster. ;)

Not all meteorites have enough mass and momentum to level the hill by the time they get through the atmosphere.
They don't get through the atmosphere. You just hurl them.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on November 01, 2016, 02:25:59 PM
Still really wish that the Siren got a Siren themed channeling boosting conjuration like Mana Flower


Mana Anemone (Mananemone)
CONJURATION: mana, aquatic
Cost:6    Quick Cast    Targeting: 0-1 Zone with aquatic terrain attached   Water level 1
0 armor
9 life

Zone Exclusive, Living, Regenerate 1
Lightning +2, Hydro Immunity

Controller gains Channeling +1
Controller gains Channeling +2 when they have initiative

Changing the terrain of Mananemone's zone to any type other than aquatic costs 4 additional mana, but will destroy the Mananemone.


Mananemone's major con is its requirement to be cast in aquatic terrain, but you'll likely have that slapped around anyways. The pros are its dissuasion factor that makes the Siren's opponent have to shell out extra mana to take away her aquatic terrain, and that it essentially gives the Siren channeling +1.5. She gets more mana on the turns when she has initiative, allowing her to get the most out of items like Ring of Tides.

Thematically I gave it a weakness to lightning spells because electricity and water don't get along very well.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 01, 2016, 02:49:40 PM
Thematically I gave it a weakness to lightning spells because electricity and water don't get along very well.

Something I never thought about until now....

Doesn't make sense that any kind of aquatic terrain doesn't give Lighting +2 to enemies inside that zone, although they had a similar problem dealing with Burn tokens and water terrain.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Kelanen on November 01, 2016, 04:17:07 PM
Doesn't make sense that any kind of aquatic terrain doesn't give Lighting +2 to enemies inside that zone, although they had a similar problem dealing with Burn tokens and water terrain.

The Lightning affinity traits  make no sense whatsoever anyway. Even if we ignore Faraday cage effects, things like Wall of Steel should be Lightning Immune, not  +2, and probably Iron Golem too.

But yes, Aquatic out to give +2 to living non-flying creatures in the zone.
Title: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 01, 2016, 04:50:09 PM
Doesn't make sense that any kind of aquatic terrain doesn't give Lighting +2 to enemies inside that zone, although they had a similar problem dealing with Burn tokens and water terrain.

The Lightning affinity traits  make no sense whatsoever anyway. Even if we ignore Faraday cage effects, things like Wall of Steel should be Lightning Immune, not  +2, and probably Iron Golem too.

But yes, Aquatic out to give +2 to living non-flying creatures in the zone.

Furthermore lightening always moves on the easiest path. To control lightning and direct it any way you want without a circuit should also be impossible. I would just pretend that a lightening attack is actually a missile or bullet made of magic, and the magic is fueling the electricity. Or maybe harshforge is weak to electricity, and most metals and earth have traces of harshforge in it. Maybe their version of steel is actually a harshforge-steel alloy. It would explain why the ground in Etheria isn't wildly more unstable then the ground on earth, even though Etheria has the kind of magic that you would expect to have warping effects on the environment. I imagine that the Grand Arena floor has a lot of harshforge underneath it, so that while people can cast enchantments and stuff on the cobblestone surface as well as on the dirt underneath that, the harshforge underneath the dirt keeps the arena floor from being ruined beyond repair. They just have to "repave" the harshforge with a new layer of dirt and cobblestone every now and then.


Of course this would probably make thunderstorms in Etheria be very different than on Earth. It means that in Etheria, either lightning strikes would happen in the opposite direction (from the ground to the sky) or that lightning is positively charged, or more likely, that lightning in thunderstorms are also fueled by magic. In other words the gods control the weather, or at least power it.

So, to summarize, if steel in Etheria is weak to electricity instead of resistant or immune, then one possibility is that harshforge is weak to electricity and that Etherian "steel" is actually a steel-harshforge alloy. If so, then it follows that Etheria must have weather gods. Or maybe there's something weirder going on...like some unconscious remnant of the Elemental Lord of Air is controlling thunderstorms. That would explain why things that get struck by lightning don't seem to have been intentionally or consciously targeted, but also why lightning strikes still go in the same direction as on earth despite their steel and earth being weak to electricity.

Or maybe it's something else entirely. It could be that lightning bolts in Etheria are generated by some other material than just pure magic. Maybe magically-charged and condensed air? If you condense air enough the water in it might start to get really cold. Maybe lightning bolts have tiny magically charged pieces of ice in them. The magic continuously generates the ice and sustains the electricity, and that ice absorbs mana from the surrounding environment and then shatters from the build up of heat, releasing more magic in a feedback loop. Of course it would make more sense if instead of ice, it was the same material that mana crystals were made of, and lightning bolts formed from magically charged, condensed and *dehydrated* air.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on November 02, 2016, 12:56:40 AM
Or you just accept that the electricity in mage wars is movie-electricity. Using every misconception about electricity just as in most movies.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: bigfatchef on November 02, 2016, 05:32:35 AM
Lightning follows the easiest way to the ground. If there is a wall of steel a thunderbolt would probably hit it but not always.

So if there are 2 enemy creatures next to me, one of them with a lightning+2 trait and i can fire 4 dice or 4+2 dice with lightning attack I am in many times more willing to get 2 for free. But not always for strategic reasons.

Summary: in both cases a lightning attack will more likely hit something that attracts lightnings. The lightning+2 trait is kinda working correct from the effect point of view.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Halewijn on November 02, 2016, 06:52:24 AM
More likely to hit ≠ more damage.  :P

Also, the if you want to include the shortest path, it is provably straight to the ground instead of moving through the air horizontally to the wall.

A wall of steel will not be damaged at all by lightning just as the steel lightning attractors on big buildings are not damaged by the lightning.

But this topic has been talked about enough previously. I kinda like the movie-lightning for gameplay.
Title: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 02, 2016, 07:41:58 AM
Or you just accept that the electricity in mage wars is movie-electricity. Using every misconception about electricity just as in most movies.

But where's the fun in that? Besides, this way the Wizards of Sortilege actually have something to study instead of just spouting nonsensical techno-babble for no reason. Also you have to admit that my fan-theory provides a thematic reason for why wizards have air training rather than some other element, since it postulates a fundamental connection between lightning and magic.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on November 03, 2016, 07:45:52 PM
Wait I have a question about grapple...
When the grappler moves does it take its prey with it?
Did it say anything about that in the post about the Kraken?
I'll read it again...
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Milevan_Faent on November 03, 2016, 07:46:54 PM
Wait I have a question about grapple...
When the grappler moves does it take its prey with it?
Did it say anything about that in the post about the Kraken?
I'll read it again...

I don't think you can move while grappling.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Head over feels on November 03, 2016, 07:47:33 PM
Ya no you get restrained and unmovable, just found out.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Santar on January 22, 2017, 05:52:38 PM
Sorry for the foolish question:
Siren has two sharks by 5 mana each. How decide which one is the strongest, Siren or Paladin?

Quote
In cases of a tie, the controller of the strongest effect may choose which object it applies to.
Who controller in my case? :)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on January 22, 2017, 07:44:16 PM
Whoever controls the effect that references the "strongest" creature. So, if I control a creature that gets a bonus on melee attacks against the strongest creature and there's a tie, I get to choose which one's strongest. If you control an effect that gives the strongest creature a defense, and there's a tie, then you get to choose which one gets the defense.

The creature chosen must be one of the ones that were tied, obviously.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Santar on January 22, 2017, 08:09:09 PM
Thanks for answer.

Can I change "the strongest creature"? For example: I have 2 Knights of the Red Helm (A and B) and my opponent has 2 creatures of the same mana cost (creatures C and D). At the same round my knight A attack creature C and get melee +2 because I choose that the strongest creature is C. Then in the same round my knight B attack creature D and I want name him now the strongest creature. Can I do this? Or I must choose the strongest once and wait until my opponent summon 3ed creature of the came mana cost?

PS new mages are awesome!
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Puddnhead on January 23, 2017, 08:43:13 AM
Thanks for answer.

Can I change "the strongest creature"? For example: I have 2 Knights of the Red Helm (A and B) and my opponent has 2 creatures of the same mana cost (creatures C and D). At the same round my knight A attack creature C and get melee +2 because I choose that the strongest creature is C. Then in the same round my knight B attack creature D and I want name him now the strongest creature. Can I do this? Or I must choose the strongest once and wait until my opponent summon 3ed creature of the came mana cost?

PS new mages are awesome!

Yes, you can do this.  Each time you need to check for strongest you get to choose if there's a tie.  So each knight can swing at a different creature while getting the bonus as long as those two creatures are tied for most mana cost.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: iNano78 on January 23, 2017, 08:51:18 AM
Would there be a difference if the ruling were the following?

"When two or more creatures tie for strongest, all of those creatures count as the strongest."

I guess it would matter if you had a Sweeping attack or used Whirling Strike or Battle Fury to hit several tied creatures in the same attack action.
(Actually, KotRH gains Melee +2 when attacking the strongest, so he'd only get the bonus once when using any of the above multi-strikes/attacks)
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Zuberi on January 23, 2017, 10:06:07 AM
You basically already figured out the difference. It would matter in cases where multiple objects are involved. So, not a huge difference, especially with the current cards, but an important enough one to make going forward in design.

Let's look at your Sweeping example. It actually does make a difference here. Say you do a sweeping attack with Knight of the Red Helm against two creatures who are both tied for the strongest. If they both counted as the strongest, you'd get the Melee bonus against whichever one you attacked first. However, by being allowed to choose, you could save the bonus for the second attack. Perhaps because one was guarding, forcing you to attack it first despite the other one being a higher priority target.
Title: Re: Paladin vs Siren Spoilers
Post by: Santar on January 26, 2017, 08:55:20 PM
Ring of healing and Paladin's Cloak:
Can I heal creature 3 gamage, then increase that amount by one and gain the Valor?

Paladin with Paladin's Cloak and Ring Of healing cast Martyr's Restoration.
1) Can Paladin take Valor? He removes 4-5 damage from creature.
From codex: Heal- healing removes damage from Living creatures and conjurations.
Martyr's Restoration- remove up to 5 damage from target creature and place it on the caster of this spell.
So, it was healing.

2) After this spell was casting, Paladin can heal himself from his Paladin's Cloak.

3) Can Paladin use ring to heal the creature 1 damage, when casting Martyr's Restoration?

This ring can work with Healing Wand and Healing Madrigal.
But can this ring work with Theft of Life?
I think it can. So, for 4 points in spell book, 2 quick actions, 6 mana and enemy mage have regenerate  we have:
1) Heal our mage on 2 damage
2) Prevent enemy mage 1 heal.
Profit!

My Paladin has Temple of Dawnbreaker.
My enemy have initiative.
The Challenged enemy's creature attacks mage. He can re-roll and I can say him to re-rall.
If I have initiative, I can say him to use his ability first. And then use my temple to re-roll all attack dices.
But now enemy has initiative, so creature roll dices 1st time, then I can use temple if not, creature may re-roll some dices and I can not use my temple yet. Am I right?