Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Mages => Topic started by: Guru of Mana on October 26, 2016, 10:28:59 PM

Title: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Guru of Mana on October 26, 2016, 10:28:59 PM
Hello Everyone!

What do YOU think that the next wizard should be like?
Alternate Druid vs Al. Wizard
[Wood chopper wars. Relate to leaf cutter wars].
The leaf cutter wars was a sortilege vs straywood, when the wizard did experiments, that led to the creation of the darkfenne.
Wood chopper wars: wychwood vs sortilege?

I think that she should have an ability that punishes the opponent for casting too many spells, (Synergy with gate to Voltari).
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Halewijn on October 28, 2016, 07:57:06 AM
I have almost no inspiration for a cool alternate wizard. I'm guessing she could have abilities related to the "wind" subtype. Maybe she'll have more control abilities instead of the agressive/defensive abilities of the current one. I believe the set will more likely be alternate wizard + alternate forcemaster instead of druid.

This is from an old topic:

I would doubt it.  Arcane Wonders will probably reserve something that different for a new Mage instead.  Maybe an arcane and mind one? 

If you're looking forward to a Chronomancer, the bad news is that several new Mages have just been revealed (in the new podcast).  If the Chronomancer is even a thing, it won't be coming out for a very long time.
I wouldn't be so sure - a previous Magewars Monday hinted heavily that there was a clue to the new mage's abilities in the picture...

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14379.0 (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14379.0)

For reference:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6a/f6/aa/6af6aab3d6f1f5db5aa6001e2dd1fd4a.jpg)

Is the staff in her mage art a Staff of Storms (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1945270_md.jpg)?  The art certainly makes her look more in-tune to nature than the existing male wizard. Thematically, perhaps she regrets the decisions made by Sortilege Wizards to manipulate the natural world that resulted in the Darkfenne abominations?

Looking at promos and such, I could see her getting discount(s) for the Air (and possibly Water?) elemental school(s), and an ability that might give her Damage Type +1 for "Wind" (and possibly "Hydro"?) attacks.  This would work well with the Gale Force Ring (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33805) (which doesn't directly increase damage), Wind Storm (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33805) and Sandstorm (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1821565_md.jpg) attack spells, etc.  Her image also shows up on Acid Blast (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33807), which may or may not imply some training in the Water school.   In terms of creatures, there seem to be a lot of Nature-school promo creatures that could work with her, including Oscuda (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1794793_md.png) (who has a poisonous "stink cloud" attack), Lightning Beetle (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33807), .  Her spell book might also feature the Gloves of Skill (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33807) to help with her ranged Wind attacks, and Lightning Strike (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33805) might help her melee creatures. And having some sympathy for Nature might also be reflected in Raincloud (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2097406_md.jpg).  Aside from that, I wouldn't be surprised to see Wall of Poison Gas (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33805) show up with her (and maybe more copies of Poison Gas Cloud?).  And of course any expansion that includes a Wizard would be a good place to print Mordok's Tome (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1794791_md.png).

I could see her in a Kumanjaro-like expansion paired off against the male Forcemaster.  His spell book might feature Wall of Force (http://organized-play.pl/sites/default/files/image004_0.png), Chitin Armor (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33807) (to counter the Wizard's Acid Blast), Flame Strike (http://www.dicetower.com/file/33807) (mostly to compliment Lightning Strike, but emphasizing the aggressive style of the Forcemaster), and presumably a bunch of Mind-school spells we haven't seen yet, including something that allows a mage to gain flying - perhaps just temporarily, maybe via a "Levitate" Incantation?

(http://i.imgur.com/GKPs0jJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: farkas1 on October 28, 2016, 03:52:12 PM
The alt wizard should be able to manipulate time and forsee the future.  She will be able to add dissipate tokens to extend enchantments and or conjurations.  I think it would be cool to have her be able to like project spells and or use mana from her next turn so she could decrease in channeling temporally but use it on certain spells.  This may be only on certain things that revolve around time or have a time trait.  Also the ability to maybe have the option to to do actions back to back.  Again it might be only available for creatures who have a time trait, that can manipulate this ability.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on October 28, 2016, 03:56:41 PM
How about:

- Air + Arcane training
- Channel 10

Seer:
- At the beginning of the upkeep phase, for each opponent, you may look at one of your opponent's planned spells. Then, you may pay 1 mana to change one of your planned spells.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: bigfatchef on October 28, 2016, 07:12:10 PM
After reading Sailor Vulcans Definition of Wizard being a trickster about 1000 times I would love to see tricky abilities:
- Copy abilities of enemy mage
- play conjurations and creatures facedown and reveal them whenever you want (maybe for 1 mana)
- divide a zone into 2
... Random thoughts. But you get the idea

Anyway i would definitely prefer alternate druid and forcemaster and maybe necromancer over wizard.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Halewijn on October 28, 2016, 10:20:03 PM
I'm also not huge on the wizard, but I suspect that he'll be the alternate mage since he is a core set mage and still did not get expansions. I believe it was due to the meta, but since that problem is solved now, they could bring out the next one.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Guru of Mana on October 29, 2016, 08:35:47 AM
Forcemaster is weak against druid.
(Plants are immune to push and slam since they are rooted.)

And what could they possibly do for an Alternate Necromancer?
(My best guess are Mythological Underworlds.)
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on October 29, 2016, 08:45:12 AM
Forcemaster is weak against druid.
(Plants are immune to push and slam since they are rooted.)

And what could they possibly do for an Alternate Necromancer?
(My best guess are Mythological Underworlds.)

Better idea, use mummies and ghosts.


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Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Kelanen on October 29, 2016, 08:50:24 AM
Forcemaster is weak against druid.
(Plants are immune to push and slam since they are rooted.)

The problem is that this is based on the thematic theory of FM, rather than how the competitive builds play. Also you don't engage creatures more than  you have to, and concentrate on the mage.

I agree an Incorporeal Necromancer would be the right way to go next.

There was nowhere to go for Wizard and no point trying prior to the errata, but the field is right open now, there are a lot of possibilities.

Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Super Sorcerer on November 04, 2016, 09:22:31 AM
ב"ה
I guess we will see more wind and lightning spells. But I also guess that we have enough time before that expansion would go out. There weren't enough tournament games to see how competitive is the post-errata wizard, so we would probably see warlord academy and forcemaster academy first (or at least one of them).
While wizards already got some arcane weapons, I really hope to see wind and lightning weapons. A proper melee build for a wizard could be really cool  :)
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Kelanen on November 04, 2016, 09:31:15 AM
I'm not sure that a 'proper melee build' is a requirement or even desirable for all mages. In fact I think we have plenty of those already - Wizard seems the least likely candidate for that to me...
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on November 04, 2016, 09:52:33 AM
ב"ה
I guess we will see more wind and lightning spells. But I also guess that we have enough time before that expansion would go out. There weren't enough tournament games to see how competitive is the post-errata wizard, so we would probably see warlord academy and forcemaster academy first (or at least one of them).
While wizards already got some arcane weapons, I really hope to see wind and lightning weapons. A proper melee build for a wizard could be really cool  :)

Next to War (?), I think the Wizard has the most in-school weapons, especially if you count promos:

- Mage Staff
- Staff of the Arcanum
- Rod of the Arcanum
- Mage Wand
- Dispel Wand
- Elemental Wand
- Staff of Storms

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1945270_md.jpg)

I expect the Staff of Storms will be in the alt-Wizard expansion (unless it's in Lost Grimoires v1?), perhaps along with a new Ring that deals with "time" spells (e.g. perhaps grants an Arena Wizard the ability of the Academy Wizard to add Dissipate tokens? And maybe reduces the casting cost of spells with the "time" trait, if one is coming). *edit* Or better yet, "Whenever you place 1 or more token(s) on a spell you control, you may pay 1 mana to place 1 additional token on that spell." This would allow you to put 2 per upkeep on Staff of Storms, for instance, and add +1 when you cast a spell with Dissipate, not to mention Banish, etc. Have to be careful with the wording (e.g. check all spells to see which say "token" and which say "marker") because, for example, you wouldn't want to add an extra Growth marker each time a creature gets one of those... too powerful!

After alt-Wizard vs alt-Forcemaster (for which there has been some art floating around for years now), I'd love to see an Egyptian themed female alt-Necromancer (with mummies and undead cats and such) vs alt-Paladin (not sure of the Paladin's theme/inspiration - but holy vs unholy is always fun and hasn't been done in Mage Wars yet, with Academy Priestess and Warlock showing up as separate sets). Then maybe alt-Druid vs alt-Siren would be neat, with the Druid leaning towards insects (hive/bee/arachnid/ants, along with more plants/vines)  and the "Siren" being more of a Pirate, with special abilities favouring pirates over fish, but also including a new shark or two to flesh out the other Siren strategies (e.g. either Siren could be used in either a Shark/fish or Pirate/ship strategy, but the current female Siren might be directed more towards under-the-sea aquatic creatures while the male alt-Siren might be more into pirates and sailors - analogous to how the Arraxian Crown Warlock leans more towards melee + curses with a splash of demons (Reaper) and fire spells, whereas the Adramelech Warlock is primarily fire + demons (especially those with flame attacks) with a splash of curses (to strengthen demon attacks).
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 04, 2016, 12:57:48 PM
An alt paladin would be interesting. maybe he would have a different valor ability. Maybe the alt paladin could be a little less aggressive, using more tactics to try to settle most issues peacefully, but when he does need to attack, his attacks are harder and stronger? Like, "If this mage did not melee attack this round, he gains 1 valor." And then as a quick action he can spend X valor to gain melee +2X.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on November 04, 2016, 01:15:39 PM
An alt paladin would be interesting. maybe he would have a different valor ability. Maybe the alt paladin could be a little less aggressive, using more tactics to try to settle most issues peacefully, but when he does need to attack, his attacks are harder and stronger? Like, "If this mage did not melee attack this round, he gains 1 valor." And then as a quick action he can spend X valor to gain melee +2X.

Getting off topic for this thread, but...

In some franchises, paladins are more passive and supporting rather than melee combat specialists. Imagine a drawback like Melee -1 (opposite of Battle Skill) to really discourage melee combat, but then having strong supportive auras and healing abilities. Might step on the toes of the Priest/Priestess a bit, though.

Hmmm. Maybe not. It's tough to make a knight-like melee fighter and a supportive healer that feels different from the existing Paladin, Priest and Priestess.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 19, 2016, 08:16:16 PM
An alt paladin would be interesting. maybe he would have a different valor ability. Maybe the alt paladin could be a little less aggressive, using more tactics to try to settle most issues peacefully, but when he does need to attack, his attacks are harder and stronger? Like, "If this mage did not melee attack this round, he gains 1 valor." And then as a quick action he can spend X valor to gain melee +2X.

Getting off topic for this thread, but...

In some franchises, paladins are more passive and supporting rather than melee combat specialists. Imagine a drawback like Melee -1 (opposite of Battle Skill) to really discourage melee combat, but then having strong supportive auras and healing abilities. Might step on the toes of the Priest/Priestess a bit, though.

Hmmm. Maybe not. It's tough to make a knight-like melee fighter and a supportive healer that feels different from the existing Paladin, Priest and Priestess.

The current paladin is basically a show-off Mage. He basically gains valor by impressing/appealing to his god(s) with a show of justice and honor. Having more valor is basically having more favor with his god(s). So what I imagine for an alternate paladin is someone with good intentions but harsher methods. Imagine a paladin who is a zealous follower of the dawnbreaker, rather than asyra. Rather than making appeals based on honor like the current paladin does, he would make appeals based on justice/vengeance. So maybe something like a "vengeful challenge", "when you attack an enemy creature that attacked and damaged a friendly creature this round, you gain one valor."

Or even "when the paladin attacks and damages an enemy creature with a counterstrike, he gains one valor"

And he could have an aura that gives him the vigilant trait that costs 3 valor, or something.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: ClockWork on November 20, 2016, 08:18:00 AM
Rather than making appeals based on honor like the current paladin does, he would make appeals based on justice/vengeance.

An anti-hero? Like Batman, but a holy-roller. Awesome belt in the Batman box set, plus sweet cape and cowl. Trained in level 2 Holy and level 2 Dark magic? Batman throwing stars as weapon with quick attack like the nature boomerang. His sub-class could be detective, and maybe ninja?
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 20, 2016, 09:03:35 AM
Rather than making appeals based on honor like the current paladin does, he would make appeals based on justice/vengeance.

An anti-hero? Like Batman, but a holy-roller. Awesome belt in the Batman box set, plus sweet cape and cowl. Trained in level 2 Holy and level 2 Dark magic? Batman throwing stars as weapon with quick attack like the nature boomerang. His sub-class could be detective, and maybe ninja?

I was thinking he would be fine with the same training as current paladin. The dawnbreaker is the god of justice and righteous vengeance after all.


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Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on January 15, 2017, 11:26:03 AM
Had an idea for Alternate Wizard's special ability:

Freeze time:
You may use your quick-cast marker to cast a quick action spell at any time an Enchantment could be revealed.

...

Think about the possibilities. This would allow you to effectively "respond" to most actions your opponents could take. For instance, a creature declares a move action... and then you quick-cast a wall with passage attack trait on the border or a trap in the zone it's moving to (!). Or you quick-cast a Reverse Attack on your creature that has been declared as the target of a "not Unavoidable" attack (!). Or put a Jynx on your opponent after she declares a spell. Or cast a quick attack spell that causes Stagger or Daze/Stun right when a creature is about to attack or even counterstrike (!). Or better yet, use Force Push or Teleport on a creature ... making this similar to a reusable Divine Intervention!!!

Goes great with Mordok's Tome, since having a 3rd option for your "instant speed" quick spell would be amazing.

And consider a Ring of Chronology (or if the hourglass were an equipment, not sure what slot it would use): As a quick action, you may flip your quick-cast marker.

Now, this ability is probably too powerful. Perhaps it needs restrictions, either to the timing (e.g. can only be used after certain steps or during certain types of actions that don't include spell casting steps or attack steps), or to the types of spells you can cast - e.g. perhaps just Incantations and Enchantments... but even still it could be VERY powerful. I don't think she'd need any other abilities (e.g. no Voltaric Shield or Arcane Zap), assuming Channeling 10 and training in Arcane + Air.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 15, 2017, 11:41:20 AM
Had an idea for Alternate Wizard's special ability:

Freeze time:
You may use your quick-cast marker to cast a quick action spell at any time an Enchantment could be revealed.

...

Think about the possibilities. This would allow you to effectively "respond" to most actions your opponents could take. For instance, a creature declares a move action... and then you quick-cast a wall with passage attack trait on the border or a trap in the zone it's moving to (!). Or you quick-cast a Reverse Attack on your creature that has been declared as the target of a "not Unavoidable" attack (!). Or put a Jynx on your opponent after she declares a spell. Or cast a quick attack spell that causes Stagger or Daze/Stun right when a creature is about to attack or even counterstrike (!). Or better yet, use Force Push or Teleport on a creature ... making this similar to a reusable Divine Intervention!!!

Goes great with Mordok's Tome, since having a 3rd option for your "instant speed" quick spell would be amazing.

And consider a Ring of Chronology (or if the hourglass were an equipment, not sure what slot it would use): As a quick action, you may flip your quick-cast marker.

Now, this ability is probably too powerful. Perhaps it needs restrictions, either to the timing (e.g. can only be used after certain steps or during certain types of actions that don't include spell casting steps or attack steps), or to the types of spells you can cast - e.g. perhaps just Incantations and Enchantments... but even still it could be VERY powerful. I don't think she'd need any other abilities (e.g. no Voltaric Shield or Arcane Zap), assuming Channeling 10 and training in Arcane + Air.

By the time you finish adding restrictions it won't be the same ability any more. You might as well let him do something very specific as a free action once per round. Or make it use his regular quickcast without giving him an extra one. If he wants another spell action he can summon a spawnpoint or familiar, after all.


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Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on January 15, 2017, 04:03:20 PM
By the time you finish adding restrictions it won't be the same ability any more.
Perhaps. But without any restrictions, I fear it may be "OMGz BORKEN!1!"

You might as well let him do something very specific as a free action once per round. Or make it use his regular quickcast without giving him an extra one. If he wants another spell action he can summon a spawnpoint or familiar, after all.

Not sure I understand what you mean. The ability itself wouldn't grant any additional actions, just allow you to use your quickcast like revealing an enchantment... which would be very powerful.

The ring I suggested would be a way to sacrifice your regular action (potentially after moving, possibly even moving twice via Cheetah Speed) in order to get a second quickcast in order to use the above ability twice in a round. It isn't required for the ability, but just lets you exploit it even more if you want. The ring would need to be priced accordingly: probably 2 or 3 mana, given that it comes with a drawback (e.g. uses your regular main action, so no casting a full-action spell that round, aside from any spawnpoint/familiar you might have).

Or perhaps there might be another equipment: the hourglass itself might take up a weapon/shield slot, and allows you to flip up your quickcast marker after your mage takes an action (e.g. same timing window as Dancing Scimitar's attack). This would have to cost more, though, since it gives you an extra quick action per turn, and a powerful one at that given the proposed mage ability above. And you'd pretty much need either a wand or the Tome (or make a melee attack, or guard, or double-move) in order to get maximum use out of it, since it doesn't let you prepare an extra spell.

By the way, a simple use for this ability is Battle Fury. There have been times (mainly in Domination) where I've quick-casted Battle Fury on a friendly creature, then activated that creature and rolled above average, killing its target with the first swing... which means I completely wasted the 5 mana and quickcast spent on Battle Fury! With this mage ability, you could attack with your creature, then after the "apply damage & effects step", choose to quickcast Battle Fury, then take a second attack with your creature if and only if the first attack wasn't sufficient to kill the target! That's not nearly the most powerful thing this ability could do, but helps demonstrate its flexibility, even if it were restricted to Incantations. Similarly, you could Minor Heal a friendly creature after the roll dice step of an enemy creature targeting it, to prevent its death on demand. So many possibilities!
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Beldin on January 15, 2017, 06:36:04 PM
Not sure I understand what you mean. The ability itself wouldn't grant any additional actions, just allow you to use your quickcast like revealing an enchantment... which would be very powerful.

I read it like that the first time then realised you meant as a 3rd option, not giving a second QC action.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Punisherman on January 19, 2017, 12:01:20 PM
I really want to see a Frost mage! With atack spells like blizzard etc. The effected monsters would gain slow, if they already have slow then the stun condition. Moreover each monster entering the affected terrain would gain slow or roll less atack dices.  Spells that make monsters frozen. Being frozen doesn't necessarily means "stun". Maybe they cannot attack for one round or roll less dices or slow or a combination! However their armor as long as they are "frozen" should be increased! His monsters will be immune to frost damage. He should have equipment to make him immune to frost terrain effects. You can combine frost with water. If a monster had been attacked by a water attack earlier in this round, the frost damage would be greater!

If in the same round a creature has been attacked by a hydro attack, the frost damage will be larger. Terrain with snow, where creatures with no immunity to frost deal less damage. Or maybe become slow.
I really want to see a blizzard attack spell!
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 23, 2017, 10:06:47 AM
I really want to see a Frost mage! With atack spells like blizzard etc. The effected monsters would gain slow, if they already have slow then the stun condition. Moreover each monster entering the affected terrain would gain slow or roll less atack dices.  Spells that make monsters frozen. Being frozen doesn't necessarily means "stun". Maybe they cannot attack for one round or roll less dices or slow or a combination! However their armor as long as they are "frozen" should be increased! His monsters will be immune to frost damage. He should have equipment to make him immune to frost terrain effects. You can combine frost with water. If a monster had been attacked by a water attack earlier in this round, the frost damage would be greater!

If in the same round a creature has been attacked by a hydro attack, the frost damage will be larger. Terrain with snow, where creatures with no immunity to frost deal less damage. Or maybe become slow.
I really want to see a blizzard attack spell!

Let it snow...let it snow...I can't wait anymore. let it snow... let it snow... dont make us wait no more!
I don't care what they're going to say. Let the frost come soon...
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Karadox on January 23, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Winter is Coming!
"Eddard Stark" ;)


                           
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Halewijn on January 23, 2017, 11:34:31 AM
Had an idea for Alternate Wizard's special ability:

Freeze time:
You may use your quick-cast marker to cast a quick action spell at any time an Enchantment could be revealed.

...

Think about the possibilities. This would allow you to effectively "respond" to most actions your opponents could take. For instance, a creature declares a move action... and then you quick-cast a wall with passage attack trait on the border or a trap in the zone it's moving to (!). Or you quick-cast a Reverse Attack on your creature that has been declared as the target of a "not Unavoidable" attack (!). Or put a Jynx on your opponent after she declares a spell. Or cast a quick attack spell that causes Stagger or Daze/Stun right when a creature is about to attack or even counterstrike (!). Or better yet, use Force Push or Teleport on a creature ... making this similar to a reusable Divine Intervention!!!

Goes great with Mordok's Tome, since having a 3rd option for your "instant speed" quick spell would be amazing.

And consider a Ring of Chronology (or if the hourglass were an equipment, not sure what slot it would use): As a quick action, you may flip your quick-cast marker.

Now, this ability is probably too powerful. Perhaps it needs restrictions, either to the timing (e.g. can only be used after certain steps or during certain types of actions that don't include spell casting steps or attack steps), or to the types of spells you can cast - e.g. perhaps just Incantations and Enchantments... but even still it could be VERY powerful. I don't think she'd need any other abilities (e.g. no Voltaric Shield or Arcane Zap), assuming Channeling 10 and training in Arcane + Air.

As a playtester, I solemnly swear that I will advocate for this. Simply awesome and it would combine so well with mordok's tome!  :D For real, golden suggestion.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Puddnhead on January 23, 2017, 11:39:28 AM
I solemnly swear to oppose this to my last breath. ;)
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on January 23, 2017, 12:00:28 PM
Geesh guys, let's keep the swearing to a minimum please. Think of the children!!
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Coshade on January 23, 2017, 12:50:57 PM
The way you would balance that is probably to have a hefty mana cost tacked onto it. Something like a reverse attack costing 2 to 3 times the normal mana cost would seem appropriate there. There are other ways ofc, but something that powerful needs a powerful price as well. Exact balancing would require plenty of testing, but it could be done.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Halewijn on January 23, 2017, 01:28:55 PM
I also think it could be done, but I agree that it will need a lot more testing than the average ability. Some ways to nerf it could be:

- wizard pays triple for (non arcane/wind) enchantments
- mana cost of 3(?) when using the ability
- very low life total for the wizard
- Not allowing the ability to be useable the turn after using it
- only allow it for enchantments targeting friendly or enemy creatures
- Allow the opponent to cast something during your freeze time (mages being powerfull enough to warp in the wizard's time freeze)
- discard a card of your choice whenever you use the ability. or multiple cards with a combined level of X
- whenever you use this ability, your mage suffers X direct mental damage
- Whenever you use this ability, your mage receives a daze/stun
- ...

It's very, very, powerful, but there are dozens of ways to nerf it. It would result in a new playstyle and a completely refreshing mage.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: MrBubu on January 24, 2017, 03:38:13 AM
I am with puddnhead.
My impression is, that this would shrink the possible design space, which should never be done in a way that cannot be solved with erratas and having to change a Mages main ability would seem too much.

Take Teleport alone: this would be like a cheap, no-precommitment version of Divine Intervention. If you only want to use this to counter things 3 Mana teleport cost is ok. So to be on par with DI it would have to be 4x the cost.
You could never safely summon a creature with that Wizard less than 3 zones away.

All "destroy X" or "move X" or "stop X from happening" (like making an enemys divine intervention whizzle away buy insta-casting Astral Anchor) would be created with that wizard in mind.

Even with the current card pool it would be way to strong. Future cards will only ever improve the options and hence every new card will strengthen that ability.

And even if one would be able to balance it: It does not create any meaningful decision for the opponent to make, only the constant thread of having everything insta-countered.

The only way I see to fix this would be to say: The Wizard can only cast Spells with the Time-subtype and then have quite expensive and very specialized Time spells.
E.g. put a dissipate token on an enchantment, and this enchantment is disabled until the dissipate token is gone.
Stuff like this.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: bigfatchef on January 24, 2017, 05:06:24 AM
I like the idea for that mage would feel and play very different. Mister undoing himself.
It is very powerful indeed, but as mentioned there would be ways to bance things out. My proposals<
- spells used vis timeshift cost 3 times their original mana
- if the mage uses timeshift he gains a stun marker (would lead to decision between timeshift cast or main full action)
- mage is restricted against using spawnpoints

I think the best way to deal with it would be the last two of the proposed since the mage himself has only limited actions. A timeshift teleport is super powerful if being attacked by a buddy, but not if you have to do this every round and are by this blocked against developing your own strategies. It would just delay things in a bad way for the mage.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Halewijn on January 24, 2017, 05:28:12 AM
I think 3x would be to nerf happy. It would probably make most cards too expensive to be worth it. You could only allow enchantments (no teleport) or only allow to target friendly creatures. This would also prevent teleport abuse on the opponent.

I think a stun (+some extra mana cost) would be a good nerf. You would not be able to move, cast creatures and attack spells. You would really have to be sure that it ls worth it.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: MrBubu on January 24, 2017, 06:47:06 AM
The stun idea sounds reasonable, although he could use it to delay, while the wizard tower goes through his aresnal of attack spells and huginn removes all defenses.

Also this leaves me worried about the design space.

Would it be too bad if only certain spells were allowed, which could be designed with this ability in mind?

P.S. I don't think this would be to powerful in terms of "getting away from a buddy attack". Block already does that. It's more like you try to summon Water elemental, get teleported for 3x3=9 Mana and just lost 22 Mana and 6 Spellpoints. I will take that stun anytime in such a situation. put teleport on a Wand and your opponent can never bring out the big guns.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on January 25, 2017, 04:15:49 PM
I think the easiest way to keep future design space open is to only allow this ability with spells with a new subtype (e.g. "Time"). Perhaps also specify that it cannot be a spell attached to a Wand, making it that you must actually discard an Incantation or Attack spell that you cast this way (and is still compatible with Mordok's Tome, making it a more attractive option for this mage).

It would be cool if it worked with "Metamagic" spells too, for instance to use Reveal Magic this way... but I fear it would be too powerful with Seeking Dispel (which could be used in the instant between when your opponent casts and reveals an enchantment?)/Jynx/Arcane Ward/Enchantment Transfusion/Armor Ward/Nullify/Reverse Magic/Shift Enchantment.... so almost all of them. Reveal Magic is the only spell with subtype "Truesight," so that subtype is fair game I guess.
Title: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 25, 2017, 05:36:16 PM
So far every alternate Mage we've had so far has specialized in the same main subtypes as the original versions. Warlocks use fire and curses, priestesses use healing and protection, beastmasters use animals and enchantments that buff living creatures, warlords use equipment, soldiers and commands, wizards use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning. Additionally, all alternate mages have had the same training as their original counterparts. Therefore the alternate wizard will likely have arcane and air training and will likely use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning.


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Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: bigfatchef on January 26, 2017, 04:06:31 AM
So far every alternate Mage we've had so far has specialized in the same main subtypes as the original versions. Warlocks use fire and curses, priestesses use healing and protection, beastmasters use animals and enchantments that buff living creatures, warlords use equipment, soldiers and commands, wizards use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning. Additionally, all alternate mages have had the same training as their original counterparts. Therefore the alternate wizard will likely have arcane and air training and will likely use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning.


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I agree with training in same schools. But the specializations are very different. Maybe its just how I feel it:

Priest - buddy agro / priestess - long game healing defensive.
Bloodwave - army / dwarf more solo tank buddy
Adramelech curse fire ranged (low health) / ac curse buddy reaper melee
Johktari ranged lair / straywood pet melee with possible swarm on the go

So an alternate wizard should be trained in aracane/air, but he can and should feel and play very different. Timeshifting seems wizardy tricky at fitting into this. No zap and no shield but timeshift and maybe a second little trick makes a huge difference in play
Title: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 26, 2017, 05:26:19 AM
So far every alternate Mage we've had so far has specialized in the same main subtypes as the original versions. Warlocks use fire and curses, priestesses use healing and protection, beastmasters use animals and enchantments that buff living creatures, warlords use equipment, soldiers and commands, wizards use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning. Additionally, all alternate mages have had the same training as their original counterparts. Therefore the alternate wizard will likely have arcane and air training and will likely use mana, metamagic, wind and lightning.


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I agree with training in same schools. But the specializations are very different. Maybe its just how I feel it:

Priest - buddy agro / priestess - long game healing defensive.
Bloodwave - army / dwarf more solo tank buddy
Adramelech curse fire ranged (low health) / ac curse buddy reaper melee
Johktari ranged lair / straywood pet melee with possible swarm on the go

So an alternate wizard should be trained in aracane/air, but he can and should feel and play very different. Timeshifting seems wizardy tricky at fitting into this. No zap and no shield but timeshift and maybe a second little trick makes a huge difference in play

I said subtypes not general style of play. Every alternate Mage so far *has* specialized in the same *subtypes* of spells as their original counterparts. That is a fact.


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Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: bigfatchef on January 26, 2017, 11:16:15 AM
True. Sorry for reading your post wrong.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Halewijn on January 26, 2017, 11:35:31 AM
Somtimes, new subtypes can be added for a mage making their spellpool larger. The best example being the academy wizard's dissipate spells like shrink/giant size/.. "Time spells" could be something both wizards could use but where the alternative wizard is better suited for.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on January 31, 2017, 06:25:03 AM
Just thought of a new ability related to time:

Localized Temporal Anomally: Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.

Not sure if it should be limited to enemy creatures, or if it's ok to activate a friendly as well. A friendly creature immediately after your Mage could allow for a 3rd consecutive creature activation if you do this to start a round with initiative. The intent was more to force your opponent to activate his/her creatures in a less than ideal order (and temporarily prevent passing), which is a subtle but important tactical part of Mage Wars.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: iNano78 on January 31, 2017, 08:34:18 AM
Just thought of a new ability related to time:

Localized Temporal Anomally: Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.

Not sure if it should be limited to enemy creatures, or if it's ok to activate a friendly as well. A friendly creature immediately after your Mage could allow for a 3rd consecutive creature activation if you do this to start a round with initiative. The intent was more to force your opponent to activate his/her creatures in a less than ideal order (and temporarily prevent passing), which is a subtle but important tactical part of Mage Wars.

Not sure how this would work in multi-player, whether teams or free-for-all.  For example, consider 3-player match where"player 1" has initiative and this alt-wizard is "player 2" to act this round. Player 1 activates a creature. Then player 2 activates her alt-wizard, then uses this ability to force player 1 to activate a specific creature (different from the first, of course). Player 1 activates that creature. Now whose turn is it?

To fix this, the wording might have to be:
Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature controlled by either you or the next player in initiative order, and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.

This is functionally the same in a 2-player match, prevents you from using it on a "teammate's" creature, and prevents you from completely skipping 1 (or more) players in a free-for-all match, aside from allowing you a double-activation.

If allowing yourself a double-activation is too powerful, the wording would be simplified to:
Once per round, after this Mage activates, you may choose an active non-Mage creature controlled by the next player in initiative order, and pay mana equal to its level - 1. If you do, this creature must activate next.
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: MrBubu on February 03, 2017, 06:00:22 AM
I really really like iNano's idea.
It feels like a really subtle ability which can mess up the opponents game in ways that snowball into a victory.
Afraid to see it in the hands of the likes of Charmyna or Keechjen though :D

I would maybe even allow the ability to be used before your own action phase, so you can force your opponent to act twice in a row. There might be very few situations where one would actually want to do that, but it gives more versatility without seeming to strong.

Another Idea in the chronomancer direction: (I am stating it in its bluntest form and then it can be trimmed from there)

When casting a spell or revealing an enchantment, this Mage may decide not to pay any mana. If he does so he receives some marker. During upkeep he has to pay the mana + level of the spell.

Obvious variations would be to only allow reduction by the level and require to add a fixed amount of additional costs.
Also: What happens if he cannot pay?
Lose the game?
Take as much damage as mana is missing and opponent gets that much mana?
All the mana gained is immediately used to pay off the debt and so he cannot cast anything until the debt is paid off?
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Gogolski on March 31, 2017, 06:00:59 PM
Another idea:

The AirWizard may cast a zone exclusive arcane or air conjuration in a zone where she already controls a zone exclusive arcane or air conjuration. When she does so, the new conjuration is placed on top of the previous one (temporarily banishing it from the arena). During upkeep, the AirWizard may choose which zone exclusive conjuration will be active during the round and which is/are banished. When a zone exclusive conjuration is destroyed and another (temporarily banished) zone exclusive conjuration is underneath that card, it returns to the arena.

This AirWizard should play and feel somewhat different with conjuration builds/combos that define a strategy, but which can be changed into another strategy/build.

Stuff she would probably want:

* Zone exclusive arcane and air conjurations (Right now there is mostly mana-sapping conjurations. She might want some teleportation/movement conjurations, damage conjurations, creature (arcane/air creature only?) buffing/debuffing conjurations??)
===> Teleportal (unique): mage can teleport a creature from anywhere in the arena to this zone for 2 x Lv of the creature.
===> Creature canon: shoots a non-mage (non-restrained and non-unmovable) friendly creature one or two zones away ignoring walls. Creatures shot this way take one or two dice damage.
===> Tesla coils: Two towers that shoot lightning between them and damage everything in every zone (or just one creature/zone) that it crosses. Once per round. Spend mana per zone (or per creature => if you cant spend mana for them all, they don't shoot).
===> Buff/debuff obilisk: giving a trait to ALL creatures in the arena (Like Mordok's obilisk)
===> Buff:debuff spire: giving a trait to friendly/unfriendly/all creatures in this zone (invisible, fly or fast when starting in this zone...)
* A ring or other equipment that grands discounts when casting conjurations (Mana discount equal to the level of the existing conjuration(s)?)
* An incorporeal familiar which can cast only incorporeal conjurations (to suplement her goblin builder)

Stuff to consider:
* Can corporeal conjurations only banish/replace corporeal conjurations (and ditto for incorporeal conjurations)
* Are damage, mana and conditions moved to new zone excluve conjuration when it banishes the previous one? ("repairing" a vital conjuration by casting a 4 mana (minus discount) wardstone on it seems very strong... I'd advise against it.)

Not sure how usefull this would be and how many "AirWizardess Only" cards there would be in this set...
Title: Re: Alternate Wizard Expansion...
Post by: Gogolski on April 09, 2017, 04:11:30 PM
Air wizardess abilities:

During upkeep give a corporeal friendly non-mage creature the incorporeal trait untill the end of the round by paying mana equal to it's level.

Once per round give a friendly creature up to 1 zone away the flying trait at the beginning of its action phase untill the end of the phase (round??) by paying mana equal to it's level -1. (=> untill the end of the round should be more expensive, but is very thematic, as she just spirits a creature away...)

Once per round as a quick teleportation spell the air wizardess may swap places with a friendly incorporeal creature by paying mana equal to the creatures level + 1 per zone they are distant of one another.



This mage is an escape artist. She vanishes in thin air presenting a whispy, smokey creature in return. Her creatures become air and difficult to hit or take to the air.

[EDIT]
Staff of storms would be great. Hang back till it gathers a few tokens, close in, hit hard, teleswap with an incorporeal creature.
[/EDIT]