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Mage Wars => Creative => Custom Cards => Topic started by: JasonBourneZombie on December 26, 2016, 10:16:44 AM

Title: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 26, 2016, 10:16:44 AM
I've been itching to play/create a one on many format for a while now, and I'm finally going to try my hand at it. Some of the basic ideas are:

Archmages are level 9 mages.
Archmages have higher channeling than regular mages.
Channeling is determined by the strength of their abilities
Archmages have 360 spellbook points
Archmages tend to have around 150% of the health of the mages they are built off of.
Archmages start with 20 mana before first turn channeling
Archmages may spend up to 10 mana on equipment before the game begins. This is paid with initial mana.

There are some more powerful versions of spells that would need to be added to the game to make them a little tougher without giving them extra actions per turn. Examples would be spells like mana crystals, flowers, spawnpoints, weapons, armor, etc. These spells would be archmage only, since they're too powerful for regular mages.

Stand-in names for archmages include: Lord of Beasts, Cardinal, Cambion, Enchanter, Strategos, Sage, Lich, Dryad, High Marshall, and Oceanid.

These are advanced forms of the Beastmaster, priestess, warlock, wizard, warlord, Forcemaster, necromancer, druid, paladin, and siren respectively.

I'm still tinkering around with the system, of course, and working on abilities. For now, the goal is to create a 5X5 grid to fight in where 2 mages start in a set of corners and an archmage starts in the middle zone furthest from them. This would be 2v1, but the potential for archamge v archmage exists.

As I continue work on this, I'll post custom cards and gather feedback.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 26, 2016, 11:28:52 AM
Here's a couple 'staples' along with an example spawnpoint.

(http://i.imgur.com/35dDEvX.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ALw0MLg.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jNMtiOR.jpg)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: wtcannonjr on December 26, 2016, 08:49:00 PM
I like where you are going with this. Nicely done.

One thought I had was to give all archmages an ability I call Mirror Casting. The ability provides the Archmage with one additional quickcast marker for each opponent beyond the first that it faces in a match. This helps to balance the spell casting advantage that 2 or more mages would have over a single mage.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 26, 2016, 09:13:43 PM
When I tinkered around with the concept before, I had tried the double quick cast option. It actually didn't turn out all that well. One of the biggest issues was in action economy, even though the mage had two quick casts. If you have a high channeling playstyle, for example, you could triple cast mana crystals on turn one. This caused me to quickly realize zone exclusive limitations, and similarly familiar and spawnpoint limitations, would be a significant issue for an archmage to get anything done.

By doubling the effectiveness of these three spell types, I hope I eliminated the need for a second quick cast marker. That way we don't end up with the silliness of a Dryad doing something like Corrosive Orchid, hurl boulder, hurl boulder, hurl boulder all in one action.

I'll be keeping a close eye on action efficiency to be sure. If it requires a second QC, then that is what I will add.


Tomorrow I'll try making/posting the lord of beasts. I'll probably also put up the Cambion as well. Kinda wish there was a better term that implied a host with a full fledged demon lord posessing him. Nonetheless, I like the superlock's abilities, so I'll probably post him.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 27, 2016, 08:49:59 AM
Got the LoB and Cambion cards made up way faster than expected. Will continue striking while the iron is hot. Probably make their spawnpoints and a couple more mages with theirs as well.

(http://i.imgur.com/WQdcUcH.jpg)

The Lord of Beasts is a mage who has lived amongst animals all his life and can not only mimic them, but has mastered their ways completely. He is the ultimate pack leader, having blended the strengths of many animals into one singular prowess.

The Aspect Tokens are as follows:
Canine: Melee+1 and Piercing+1 on all melee attacks
Feline: Fast and Charge+1
Reptile: Regen 2 and a D8+ X1 defense
Bear: Armor +1 and Tough-2

Right out of the gate, this gives the Lord of Beasts a decent boost to his own strength similar to those of the Beastmasters. The difference is that this boost is shared with friendly animals, so the LoB can become stronger as he buffs his own creatures. By the end of a game, I'd expect the LoB to be a better fighter than most any creature a beastmaster could summon. The high cost multiplier for Aspect tokens is to discourage games where he just piles on Aspects to stomp an opponent, so choose wisely.

(http://i.imgur.com/jcLrFZF.jpg)

The Cambion is supposed to evoke the same tropes as Demon commanders in different fiction series. The demon hordes aren't running at you; they are running from him. They know that they are alive so long as they serve faithfully. A glance instills horror, and merely his ill intent can strike you down.

For that reason, his demons will fight in a rush of death, taking damage just for the chance to kill. The horror tokens would be something like, "Minor creatures must move as far away as possible during their next activation. Major creatures must roll a 9+ on a d12 to hit anything in the same zone as the creature that placed the terror marker." The Life-X is just another way that a dark mage strangles the life out of you, this time directly instead of flame+ or keeping the curses around.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 27, 2016, 12:39:00 PM
Taking more time to find art than to make the cards. Here's two spawnpoints, and I'll be back later.

(http://i.imgur.com/lIFVwTD.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/BXQiELk.jpg)

Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 27, 2016, 01:26:10 PM
Enchanter's abilities are a bit weak, but his training and channeling are quite good. Hopefully it nets well. Of all the Archmages, he will have the best channeling.

(http://i.imgur.com/mJ6aczf.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/TBhrHA2.jpg)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: wtcannonjr on December 27, 2016, 05:43:03 PM
A few observations for you to consider.

1. The training seems too similar to existing mages. You might want to consider giving archmages training in two primary schools and some with an elemental school as well. This will allow them to better create spellbooks that can counter multiple mages. A corresponding reduction in to a spellbook points may be needed to fully balance.

2. When I tried 1 vs. 2 Scenarios before we found that a single mage would quickly fall behind the action economy as the other mages were able to summon twice as many creatures each round. You may need to modify Archmage spawnpoints to balance this.

3. How did you arrive at your channeling rates? It seems like you might need to channel more to overcome say two mages that channel 10 each. This would allow you to summon higher level spells that provide bigger effects or more durable creatures each round.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 27, 2016, 07:37:59 PM
Sure. Let me respond real fast.

1. Why give them training in more schools if I am going to reduce the spellbook points? I can understand somewhat from a flavor perspective, but also like the idea of master mages having to put in special effort for a greater repertoire. In the end it may just be numbers of spellpoints used per card, but it also protects some of the balance. An example I came across with training involves the LoB. The simplest addition to his training would be water, seeing as it is an important part of nature. That addition eats up precious 'uniqueness' of the Siren and especially the druid. Dark, arcane, and fire are largely opposed to nature. Holy would be the next best fit, but with totally opposed creature styles, it would require an entirely new set of cards instead of a few improved versions. I can take a look moving forward, but it would probably mean a radical redesign.

2. I absolutely agree. Each archmage spawnpoint can summon up to two creatures per turn.

3. This one is tricky since it relies by far the most on theory and guesswork. Simply doubling a mage in terms of spell points, base channeling, initial mana, health, and actions gave me fits before. On the one hand, you'd expect it to work. On the other hand, four boulders to mage 1 on turn 2 is not terribly compelling gameplay. So I tried to design archmages that start somewhat more strongly, but ramp awesomely.

To answer 3 more clearly, the target channeling was about +5 channeling from the base mage, modified down depending on the strength of its abilities. Enchanter abilities are nice and all, but about par with a mage, so it gets full channeling. Cambion can combo wonderfully with his abilities (blood demon takes 3 damage to swing 6-7 dice vampiric) so it gets a point of channeling knocked off.

To counter the admittedly low channeling compared to what you'd expect, the Archmages get access to more powerful ramp cards and the the ability to carry equipment into battle. These archmages excel at getting more for their mana, but not really at stockpiling mana itself. If I find they need more, i'll bump them up, but for now, I think this will work.

Edit:  Another issue down the line is how to account for mage death. 1v1 vs an archmage should be an almost forgone conclusion unless he's been dinged up quite a bit.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: wtcannonjr on December 28, 2016, 06:37:24 AM
I was targeting one Archmage versus 3 mages in a match when I was tinkering with this but here is some of my rationale.

1. I envisioned archmages as much older than a mage which helps explain why they have broader training than a mage. They have been studying and practicing magic much longer and have transcended the typical archetypes that exist for mages. I thought having training in multiple primary schools would be a unique way to differentiate the archmages from other mages and from themselves. I agree it would require testing but I thought it would give an Archmage spellbook access to more in school only spells needed to counter opposing mages of different schools. For me the unique style of existing mages is in their ability cards and mage specific spells. I think the abilities and Archmage specific cards that you create will give you a similar feel for the archmages. I was just envisioning the Archmage with some type of blend of schools to reflect their longer years of training and their rejection of the typical limits of learning magic put in place by the Academy.

2. I see that now. Nice. I missed that earlier.

3. I see your point. A larger Battlegrounds type arena might help with balancing the opening some. If the Archmage moves last at the start she might be facing up to 6 boulders on round 2 if facing 3 mages. This may just lead to more defensive style openings from mages and archmages based on experience. Walls and Reverse Attacks may rule the opening moves.
Also, rather than giving the Archmage a free equipment casting round why not provide him with some starting armor on his ability card? This might be easier to get the same defensive effect without giving the Archmage more of an attacking bonus in the opening. Just a thought. Again, I was targeting 3 opponents versus an Archmage which is why I set my channeling higher. This will require play testing to get it right.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 28, 2016, 07:24:04 AM
1. I agree that multiple schools make for cooler mages. When I first thought of the Lich, I figured he'd be the corrupted wizard trope, being Arcane dark, or the mind twisting sort, Dark Mind. I honestly don't know where the different school combinations will lead, in the end. Rather than spend the time doing the guesswork and probably screwing it up (my D&D knowledge is terrible), I figured I'd move ahead with mages with similar training, but maybe a little extra kick here and there.

3. The equipment casting round for the Archmage has a couple reasons. Thematically, it just makes sense for an experienced mage to wear armor when he goes to war. Maybe the arena disallowed putting armor on before a match, but Archmages should know better. Besides theme, there is a certain amount of utility to it. Having favorite equipment, whether armor granting or not, on turn 1 can be a great boon. I'm not sold yet on whether the Archmages should have access to their lower level counterpart' equipment. A lich taking the battlefield with a Libro Mortuos would be pretty good. A Sage starting with Psi-orb wouldn't have to cast it first turn or lose upkeep mana.

Base armor will probably be added to a mage, but not the core set archmages. The LoB is the toughest one of the 4, and I see his Bear aspect as being a pretty close option.



Today I work on the Cardinal, and probably the Lich. If I get to a third, it will probably be the Strategos.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 28, 2016, 12:17:04 PM
Alrighty. Here's the Cardinal, her Spawnpoint, the Lich, and his spawnpoint again.


The Cardinal is supposed to bring together a few of the styles of the priest/priestess. Healing, protection, and, to a smaller extent, retribution. Her abilities aren't too strong offensively and certainly don't do much to fill her card, but they give her a significant defensive boost. For that reason, she still has significant channeling.

Traited Aegis on a mage is new territory. I don't know how much mileage she will get out of it. Probably a good deal vs swarms. Buffing guards at large should make the guardian angels and some of the new Paladin soldiers pretty strong. The Asyra's Grace ability is just plain good for making each heal spell count.

(http://i.imgur.com/e1eEMFg.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/S5ELhO3.jpg)


The Lich is something I've been thinking about for a while for obvious reasons. Our first non-living mage, he breaks quite a few of the 'rules'. Skeleton creature type brings the only form of healing the Lich will likely get in the form of reconstruct spells. Being nonliving cuts him off not only from healing, but from many enchantments that target living creatures, many of which are beneficial. One bit of solace is that his Dark Ascension trait brings Sardonyx back into strong viability.

Contagion gives the Lich his one strong active power in the form of spreading disease. Pairing nicely with that is his second attack which allows him to poison creatures.

I'm not entirely sure whether the Lich deserves 14 channeling or 13. His contagion only really matters when there is a poison condition in play, but it gets downright powerful when there is.

(http://i.imgur.com/KcusQYU.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jNMtiOR.jpg)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on December 28, 2016, 01:01:44 PM
It should cost mana to use contagion.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 28, 2016, 01:25:39 PM
That was a consideration. I went mana free because he doesn't have a whole lot in terms of buffs or abilities. Even a taint marker is only worth 3 mana after all. If this ability cost him mana, he'd need more channeling or a new ability to offset it. Is that the better choice?

Edit: A note as to why I think the contagion ability needs to be really good. Being non-living disallows the Lich to use the following spells on himself, or at least not as effectively: Akiro's Favor, Bear Strength, Brace yourself, Cheetah speed, Cobra Reflexes, Death link, Falcon Precision, Hawkeye, Lion Savagery, Mongoose Agility, Rhino Hide, Drain Life, and Drain soul.

The cost of losing these cards on the mage is pretty high. At the very best, I'd say the Dark Ascension trait nets to neutral ground for the Lich. It's more of a theme ability than an effective one. With that ability netting to around 0, the Lich needs an ability worth about 3 mana a turn to make up for it. His hand of death attack is pretty neat, but does nothing against nonliving and forces him on to the front lines to make use of it, so it can't be counted on for too much.

If it needs to cost mana to use for theme purposes, I'd just as soon pay a fair bit for it and have it affect an entire zone all at once.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 29, 2016, 09:10:40 AM
Strategos has some extremely rough edges. He has a fair bit in the ability department, and the improvement to his Spawnpoint gives him some decent channeling options. His channeling will be the worst of the Archmages, but I want him to have low channeling and high performance. Thoughts?

(http://i.imgur.com/AskAzUQ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/hcgNmRs.jpg)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: jacksmack on December 29, 2016, 10:04:05 AM
i'm intrigued by the abilities, name of the cards and the images.

Is this balanced at all?  - no idea. Its probaly very very hard to test.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on December 29, 2016, 10:26:50 AM
It's going to be a nightmare to test agreed. Still should be fun.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 29, 2016, 11:08:59 AM
I honestly can't say for certain how balanced it is. I'm doing a fair bit of work trying to keep it balanced and keep various strategies, styles, cards in mind, but there's no knowing for sure until testing has taken place. Since mages don't get released 10 at a time, it will be a very difficult testing phase.

That said, I'm looking for feedback on mages to say whether they are balanced or not. Strategos has me worried because traited armor is new, having melee and ranged plus at the same time is new, the built in horn of gothos is new, and giving vigilance to a given creature is new. I expect each of these abilities to be cool, so the channeling got knocked waaay down.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Coshade on December 29, 2016, 05:09:13 PM
If these arch mages are going to be advanced versions of current arena mages, perhaps giving them a subtype of that mage would be a good idea. This let's you use currently existing mage only cards with these guys.

Or you could go the priest/priestess route and explain on the rules.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Halewijn on December 30, 2016, 01:23:46 AM
I agree with Coshade. It's probably a lot easier and more fun to create 1 totally unique and fresh Archmage that can be linked to the ability cards of the existing mages.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 30, 2016, 12:01:18 PM
That is something I've been debating with myself. If the archmages need the punch, then by all means. I'm mostly afraid of unforeseen balancing issues. Let me mull over some use cases.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 31, 2016, 09:11:07 AM
It's hard to say whether the archmages should have access to the regular mage only spells. Some are nearly useless like the horn of gothos and the demon mask. Those archmages already have keywords/abilities that make them redundant.

Equipment, even mage specific, is fairly weak. Every weapon should be rolling an extra damage at a minimum with stronger effects.

Some mage only spells combo too strongly, in my opinion, with planned upgrades. The dryad would have a vine tree like spawnpoint, and flooding the board with vines for cheap could be an issue. The Strategos headquarters isn't really designed to run fairly with a barracks. Both at once essentially turns a garrison post into two mana crystals. Spawnpoints are the likeliest source of issues, it seems.

Maybe some mages can be extensions of lower level mages, but I really need to watch that carefully.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: wtcannonjr on December 31, 2016, 09:19:27 AM
One concept I had considered was providing the archmages with a 7th spell type - Transmutation. This allows you to add cards to the game that won't impact non-Archmage games.

These spells would be all Archmage only and offer a new arena experience. The idea was that archmages were able to change spells that were already cast by other mages or themselves. So for example, you might be able to change an opponents creature into a conjuration. Or a lesser effect might be to use large cardboard markers to change the effects on a spell in the arena. For example, transmute a Zombie into a living creature or change Bear Strength from Melee +2 to Upkeep +2.

Perhaps the Archmage should have a mana transfer ability that targets an existing spell to gain mana based on its cost and then changes it from permanent to temporary by adding X dissipate tokens. In this way you could destroy creatures without attack actions.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on December 31, 2016, 12:32:18 PM
Here's a question for everyone. I've heard a few say archmages should be closer to capable of fighting 3 mages, some say they should have new training. I've avoided both of these because of complexity of design and because some mages would not appear due to certain logical combinations. The war and holy schools would fully combine under a paladin archmage, for example, meaning that the priestess and warlord would be largely redundant.

The one I've considered the most is the Lich. A lich would possibly have full dark and mind training, being something of an enslaver of minds, bodies, and souls, or dark arcane, having been a master wizard that strayed into the dark arts. In mentioning these ideas to others, the idea of either of these mixes seemed terrifying.

So the question is this: should archmages have even better stats, better training, or both?
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 03, 2017, 06:40:59 AM
Assuming that no one really has any really strong thoughts one way or the other then. I'll continue on as is later today. Dryad and Oceanid are coming up. Very opposed mages in a sense.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 03, 2017, 08:45:40 AM
Here's the Dryad and Oceanid.

The Dryad is a nature spirit that takes on a humanoid form using various plants. It is a spirit essentially, and can travel through plants themselves. I see this as being a servant of Meredia, so it helps living things grow through the regen trait. The traited quasi teleport is a bit new, but felt right for this archmage. Regen 3 right out of the gate is a pretty cool ability for a mage, but is paid for largely by the flame +2. The Dryad is trained in level 1 water, so use of the raincloud and waterfall cloak is smart. Investing in the dragonscale hauberk is a good idea too.

The World tree is supposed to function similarly to the vine tree, only the Dryad does not use vines. Root tokens may only be placed in the World tree's zone, a root token's zone, or a zone adjacent to a root token's zone. The difference between a root token and a vine is that they are underground. They do not hinder, and may not be attacked. The world tree is a smidge stronger for using root tokens because the root system does not have to target something in the root token's zone. This means walls, tanglevines, etc can be placed a little more easily and aggressively. This mage really wants to pin enemies down in a zone by using walls and tanglevines, so this works well.

(http://i.imgur.com/eJJg96T.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/JjCFKzI.jpg)



The Oceanid, by comparison, has a fair bit of immunity to being held down by way of the uncontainable trait. Like the Dryad, she is a classical spirit of nature, only she represents water. The Oceanid, like the Siren, has a mythology of being an enchanting singer and even a dancer, so she retains the song training, and gains the Enthralling Presence ability to let her capture the undivided attention of a target. She can move her terrain after it has been placed thanks to the Water's Course ability. This works quite nicely with her Spawnpoint which attaches to a water terrain.

The Ocean Shallows spawnpoint must be cast on a water terrain, which gives it a fair bit of restriction and protection up front. Enemy creatures moving to attack it will have to suffer the penalties of the terrain it is attached to. It has one of the most obvious sources of channeling of any spawnpoint thanks to the ability to ring it with water terrain. As the game progresses, you can shift your terrain to the spawnpoint to give yourself extra channeling, or once you have a fair number of creatures out, send them forward to bog down your enemies.

(http://i.imgur.com/va7mYCw.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dlMLqOZ.jpg)


Next up is the High Marshall and Sage. Renaming Sage to Astral Archon due to a fellow playtester's advice.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Milevan_Faent on January 03, 2017, 09:21:02 AM
How are you making these card images?
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on January 03, 2017, 11:16:58 AM
Beef them up btw. Meant to post this earlier.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 03, 2017, 11:22:09 AM
How are you making these card images?

Archmage cards are made from a template I made in Photoshop. Definitely not an exact match, but you get the idea.

Spawnpoints are being made with the magic set editor and a number of resources I found in a forum post a long ways back.

Beef them up btw. Meant to post this earlier.

Anyone else? Gonna take a bit to change up things. Some archmages may straight up not exist when I'm done.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Milevan_Faent on January 03, 2017, 11:24:23 AM
How are you making these card images?

Archmage cards are made from a template I made in Photoshop. Definitely not an exact match, but you get the idea.

Spawnpoints are being made with the magic set editor and a number of resources I found in a forum post a long ways back.

Beef them up btw. Meant to post this earlier.

Anyone else? Gonna take a bit to change up things. Some archmages may straight up not exist when I'm done.

Bah. If you're using photo shop, I won't be able to apply it as easily to making my own cards into images for OCTGN.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on January 03, 2017, 12:16:21 PM
Stun is to strong to be able to target a mage with.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 03, 2017, 12:42:58 PM
You're right. I was working on the edit for that (my original notes had non-mage as well) when a call came in and I lost my train of thought. Fixing now...
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: wtcannonjr on January 04, 2017, 06:06:17 AM
How are you making these card images?

Archmage cards are made from a template I made in Photoshop. Definitely not an exact match, but you get the idea.

Spawnpoints are being made with the magic set editor and a number of resources I found in a forum post a long ways back.

Beef them up btw. Meant to post this earlier.

Anyone else? Gonna take a bit to change up things. Some archmages may straight up not exist when I'm done.

My vote would be additional training and strong enough to battle 3 regular mages. I love the idea of a Battlegrounds expansion that supports another multi-player format.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: wtcannonjr on January 04, 2017, 06:09:27 AM
If the Dryad and Oceanid are Spirits shouldn't they be Incorporeal too to be consistent?
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 04, 2017, 06:23:35 AM
If the Dryad and Oceanid are Spirits shouldn't they be Incorporeal too to be consistent?

For the Dryad, definitely not. She's a spirit that always has a body of plants which are corporeal. The Oceanid if anything would have resilient to match the water elemental. I really do not think there should be a resilient mage, though.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 04, 2017, 11:31:44 AM
Alright, since I haven't really gotten a lot of feedback but what I have gotten indicates they should be stronger, the archmages will generally see a 3 point channeling bump, an additional 1/6 health, more fiddling with armor and base melee, and they'll be level 12.

Ideas for mages aren't as cemented at this point as they were when I started the thread, but here's a thought or two.

The Oceanid and Dryad get folded together to make the Nymph. She'll have nature, water, and songs in-school. She's representing the idea of magic as a natural concept, and should have abilities in line with that. Fire and War are triple since they aren't really concepts that work well with it.

Warlord, priest/ess, and High marshall all combine into the High Marshall. This mage will have training in all holy, and all war. He will pay triple for mind and darkness, being a martial master and unfamiliar with curses or telekinetic tricks.

The Lich will combine lightly with the enchanter and the archon. He'll have full darkness training, will count as a mind mage for psychic spells, and training in metamagic. He'll be playing the part of the wizard that dabbled in dark magic and 'ascended'. Paying triple for nature and holy is just good sense.

The Cambion will be combining with the larger half of the Archon to make the Archdemon (unoriginal name, I know, but it is a clearly defined position within demonology). He will have training in darkness, fire, and force spells. I'm thinking he will have excellent stats up front, but maybe unable to use some types of equipment. Expect his opening attack and armor to mirror Adramelech a fair bit, so maybe he doesn't need the equipment. Holy and water will cost triple. No real avoiding the undead and demonic mages hating holy.

Lord of beasts will not be combining with anything. He's just expanding a little bit. He will have the Nature school and training in animal and command spells. This is just a small buff, really. More will be put into the mage's abilities than anything. Still fire triple.

Final archmage will be a return of the Archon to the Sage idea. The Sage will be trained in non-creature arcane, mind, and clerics. This gives him quite a nice toolbox up front. Expect this mage to have some resilience to it.

Gonna take a while to reimagine everything. Be back with more later.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on January 04, 2017, 12:56:37 PM
If you're wanting play test you'll need the mages plus arch mage only cards outside the lairs.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 05, 2017, 07:14:24 AM
Realizing the archedmon can't be too powerful out of the gate or he'll just rush in to kill everything. Rebalancing...
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 08, 2017, 12:27:39 PM
Been a while. Been away from the forums doing some work. Here's what I've got so far. You'll note the new bar that says COUNTS AS:.  This is the only real space I could devote to giving Archmages access to mage only stuff. Some mages have more 'training' in this than others.

(http://i.imgur.com/SohbnL0.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dFCPm9Y.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dMBebNy.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/JfyFFQc.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/y9C3Ei6.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/20ISm5D.jpg)



Not too many surprises or changes. Archdemon got armor and a better attack over the Cambion. Lich got 1 armor, an altered version of contagion, and the ability to hard cast his undead creatures from the discard pile. The high marshall has much of the Strategos' abilities plus he automatically places vet tokens. Mages all have increased health and increased channeling. Should make them a little more capable.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on January 08, 2017, 01:07:03 PM
What if contagion allowed you to stack conditions on the same target? I get the benefit and theme of spreading diseases but inflaming someone's also makes sense.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 09, 2017, 06:57:08 AM
I can remove the 'other' to do that. There still has to be the option of spreading them, though.

Without spreading them, it's too weak and easily removed by a priestess/purify. There are also poison conditions that don't stack well. Weak only works to a point. I had placed the 'other' in there to keep the cost of the ability down. I wasn't sure what the third ability was going to be, but knew it needed some room budget wise.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 10, 2017, 07:10:05 AM
And the second half of the updated Archmages. I caught that the Jungle's Heart had a full action cast, and updated it, but haven't exported the image yet.

(http://i.imgur.com/viblhB0.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/QL4Ry62.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/lZ655gr.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/1bmrTx3.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/0iv6BOG.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/8UJjncl.jpg)



From here on out, I hope to be doing only minor updates on the Archmages and running full steam ahead on creating their equipment, familiars, and maybe a legend apiece.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 10, 2017, 02:03:16 PM
Alright. Some rough draft familiars are here. I'm thinking they can have up to 2 spells planned per turn. Bound spells count towards that limit. High risk and high reward for prepping 2 spells on a familiar. Trying to figure out if I want them to each have the ability to cast a second spell during final quick cast. Thoughts?

(http://i.imgur.com/Avfxf1D.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/sWuTvpz.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/tpYXbjS.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/oHPa7wB.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/S38w3C4.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xLilM8T.jpg)


Next task is for me to knock out some of the mage only equipment.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 12, 2017, 09:51:08 AM
Alright, this time I have some Mage only equipment for you all. Not as good at making equipment as I am at creatures, but I think I came up with some cool ones.

(http://i.imgur.com/EblTvCB.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/NS0P1PB.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Ty9djD5.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/bz8R02w.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/gNcyImQ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/QA3jjNL.jpg)


Next up, Legendary and Epic Creatures for all. After that, I think it will be high time to start testing some of this stuff out.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 12, 2017, 01:47:58 PM
Not a productive day for making cards, but I'm enjoying the idea of this one. Too strong?

(http://i.imgur.com/MNagh8O.jpg)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: keejchen on January 12, 2017, 03:00:11 PM
Dude. I discovered this thread today, and I love it! :D

My own thoughts was adding additional qc markers, like many others have mentioned, but I think the route you have taken is better. I'm not sure I wanted you to boost the mages like the others suggest, (I liked it when there was more to choose from,) but the new ones are awesome too. Keep doing what you are doing.

I must find a way of printing all this, and somehow coerce Biblofilter into testing it with me.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: julid-.-b on January 12, 2017, 04:00:35 PM
Correct me if im wrong here, but defenses also count as traits right? so this zombie could actually get super insane, darkfenne asp looking at you  ::)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 12, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Actually, defenses are listed in the codex as an object attribute. Traits that get insane with this guy are flying, rage, vigilance, damage type immunity, aegis, and familiar.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: keejchen on January 12, 2017, 04:34:52 PM
How about if he could only keep 1 or maybe 2 cards stored? Like when he devours a new living creature, he gains the growth and may choose to keep the one he has and discard the new card, or keep the new and discard the old one? Might be a tad more balanced.

You could boost his base stats to compensate for the nerf.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 12, 2017, 05:51:54 PM
A fair consideration. I'll review the card a bit more later. I want him to ramp nastily depending on what he eats, so it will take some careful work.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on January 12, 2017, 06:10:21 PM
I love him dude. You hit pay dirt.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 12, 2017, 07:58:16 PM
This leaves me with a couple considerations. As far as I understand it, certain abilities (like blue gremlin teleport steps, malacoda's poison, and many of the newest cards' abilities) are not keyworded, but are still traits.

So should non-keyworded traits count, and how many victims should he be able to stack. Tricky.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on January 12, 2017, 09:06:22 PM
Dude it's arch mage, go wild.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Milevan_Faent on January 12, 2017, 09:13:32 PM
.... Why is this making me want to create a "Trainee" Mage Wars mode now to be on the opposite end of Archmage, then create an "extended" game mode where you level up from Trainee to Archmage?
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: keejchen on January 13, 2017, 04:37:00 AM
Dude it's arch mage, go wild.

I absolutely agree with this statement. Until it is tested, nothing is unbalanced. ;)

Btw, is it intentional that the M'huq does not have zombie subtype?

And to Milevan_Faent... Please do?
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 13, 2017, 07:25:48 AM
It is not intentional and caught that myself earlier. Just was multitasking at the time, so I wasn't paying close enough attention.

Alright. Terrifying epic creatures it is, then. Probably doing the high marshall's next. Putting Bogan to shame.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Milevan_Faent on January 14, 2017, 01:25:42 AM
Alright, just to clarify, can you post what the actual currently available archmages are? I'm working on a little something and I'd like to have a clear idea of what all is available for this. (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=17678.msg80154#msg80154)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 14, 2017, 06:52:19 AM
Sure. I'm afraid it will have to wait until late this evening, but I can. They should be on page 3 of this topic as well.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Milevan_Faent on January 14, 2017, 04:17:32 PM
What are "Aspect Tokens"? I assume Vet Tokens are the same as on the Warlord.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: keejchen on January 14, 2017, 08:15:48 PM
Aspects are explained on the first page of the thread.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 14, 2017, 09:53:45 PM
Sorry, my apologies. Yes, the aspect tokens are on the first page. There was just no way to fit token descriptions on the card.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Milevan_Faent on January 14, 2017, 09:55:26 PM
Sorry, my apologies. Yes, the aspect tokens are on the first page. There was just no way to fit token descriptions on the card.

Its fine. It's not like the Paladin doesn't set a precedent for it. Thanks for telling me.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 15, 2017, 08:41:26 AM
Couple new critters for you. The idea behind the last one was easy. Zombie biomass evolution. I'll give these a little more introduction.

First up is Raimbaut the holy/war knight. He's reasonable for his cost against smaller creatures. Comes with high armor, health, melee, and a dodge. This alone would make him the strongest knight right out of the gate. His special attack is what actually sets him apart. This Knight is meant to be a destroyer of legends and even other epic creatures, and his Grand cleave attack reflects that. He is meant to be the strong arm of the High Marshall against extremely high threat creatures.

(http://i.imgur.com/KkZN9aL.jpg)


Second is Tahrunen. I had to kick around a few ideas for him, but I like what I ended up with. Tahrunen is designed to focus the Archdemon's hate on an enemy and reward them for it. His stats are good, of course, but it is his synergy with curses that let's him shine. Just as he makes the Archdemon focus his hate on one creature, an enemy should focus his hate on Tahrunen, or he just might stay alive for quite a while.

(http://i.imgur.com/4Oj3rMo.jpg)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 15, 2017, 02:53:32 PM
Last ones from me, for now. The Lord of Beasts' creature will be coming from Silverclaw Grizzly.

Second to last is the nymph's epic creature, Gelump. A simple name for a simple creature. He grapples enemy creatures so that he can eat them. When he does, his stomach continues the attack, dissolving the unfortunate into sustenance for him. This creature takes the power of Corrode to a new level. Level 2 creatures are very likely to die if they do not escape before the first attack of digestion and stronger creatures will come out horribly weakened by the corrode.

(http://i.imgur.com/dIUg2v9.jpg)


Last up is the Sage's epic creature. Arcana is pure force channeled by his mage and by the mage's followers. Where one cleric may only roll 2-3 dice and have difficulty punching through the armor of stronger targets, they can instead lend their strength to Arcana to create a collectively more powerful punch. I expect Arcana to have the largest dice pools of any creature in the Archmage format, easily.

(http://i.imgur.com/MVFPLoK.jpg)

I'll get the last creature up when it is ready, and then we can begin the playtesting.

Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: keejchen on January 15, 2017, 08:49:49 PM
Again, amazing work Jason.

Arcana is very cool. Is it supposed to be living though? Most (I think all other?) incorporeal creatures also have the non-living trait.

I began creating a book with your rules, but came up with a question: What is your stance on card limitations?

To be clear, I mean in academy, mages may bring 3 lvl 1 spells and 2 of any lvl 2+. In arena it is 6/4. It would make sense to me that archmages could stretch the limitations even further.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 16, 2017, 06:57:59 AM
For Arcana, I used to have nonliving on him until I remembered that Incorporeal grants nonliving. Not sure why they spelled it out on the invisible stalker unless incorporeal had a codex update after FMvW was released.

In terms of spell limits, I'm not quite sure yet. I think 9/6 wouldn't be too much. Part of me wants to extend the legend rule as well, but that could cause serious issues.

At 9/6, the steelclaw matriarch would be hard to manage, but a potentially nastier attacker than I ever imagined.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 17, 2017, 09:38:30 AM
Last epic going up. Also posting a couple updates to old channeling cards.

First, the epic. Isevae, Lord of the Hunt is a little different from the other epics so far. She encourages a bit of a pack mentality by giving friendly canines in her zone the bloodthirsty +1 trait. Since she can freely leave the zone, her canine friends can follow after her regardless of damaged creatures in the zone. She comes with relatively high health since she does not have the other mitigating factors like a dodge, regen, incorporeal, etc. She has lower dice than most epics, but comes in with much higher versatility.

(http://i.imgur.com/bl3DjY9.jpg)


The other two cards are just a stronger form of the moonglow amulet and the harmonize cards.

(http://i.imgur.com/t99xHNk.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/fC1PDeH.jpg)

Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 22, 2017, 07:38:46 AM
Haven't gotten a chance to test just yet. Really hoping to get to it soon. In the meantime, here's some more creatures. Gonna keep working on this as if it were a set, which means there will be a ton of spells and niches to fill.

(http://i.imgur.com/b1csVNM.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/m19htt3.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/tOZLwcX.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mBM9SCX.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/uvQXZ1B.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/kufwraS.jpg)
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: wtcannonjr on January 22, 2017, 07:56:56 AM
Nice.

Does Bone Golem need the Undead subtype?

Also, what is your source of images? You have an amazing collection of cool art for these cards. Are you the artist?
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 22, 2017, 08:08:58 AM
Yeah. He should be undead. Really need to up my proof read game.

Source is largely google image search. I am just nitpicky about what I put on the card. The only image I in any way worked on was the bone golem. He was the best candidate by far, but had no background. Took him, put him in a swamp picture, adjusted tint and applied a little blur to match the impressionist background a little better.

Original parts:

http://orig08.deviantart.net/df2b/f/2012/156/7/7/bone_golem_by_u_ra_cil-d52ff5x.jpg (http://orig08.deviantart.net/df2b/f/2012/156/7/7/bone_golem_by_u_ra_cil-d52ff5x.jpg)

https://images6.alphacoders.com/311/311663.jpg (https://images6.alphacoders.com/311/311663.jpg)

Thinking the edges of the golem need a little blur or something. Largely self taught PS user, so I just try my best each time.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Karadox on January 22, 2017, 08:25:36 AM
3 Armor For a Skeleton, i don't know maybe give him more life and remove 1-2 Armor?

add 5+ life and remove 2 armor???

I have an idea for the eagle, if he attacks a non-flying creature he could get Fast and / or unavoidable
swoop on his prey :)

Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 22, 2017, 08:42:17 AM
The armor is actually the sticking point of the Golem. Rather than have a defense or a significant increase in attack power vs the other skeletons, he has armor.

If he did lose 2 armor, his health would be sitting around 23-24 instead. A possibility, but I'm not sure it would be fun digging for that many damage counters.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Karadox on January 22, 2017, 08:46:32 AM
Yes maybe, but we have the Earth Elemental to... and 3 Armor makes no realy sense for a Skeleton Construct.
Even the Skeleton Dragon has Armor only the Skeletal Knight with its rusted Armor has 1.

What about: during the supply phase remove a Skeleton from your discard Pile, reconstruct X Life from
 Bone Golem X = 2 times the lvl from the Skeleton you removed.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Alex on January 22, 2017, 08:54:29 AM
I really like all these ideas. Perhaps some Balances are needed. Hopefully Arcane Wonders like them too.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 22, 2017, 09:04:17 AM
The idea is that he is made of solid bone, where the average animal body has gaps in certain areas, most importantly the arms, legs, and chest. Maybe 3 armor is a tad high, but 1 armor is the realm of someone wearing leather, which is too weak for what I want. 2 armor and 18 life?

I'm hoping to stay away from the Lich destroying cards in his graveyard since his ability is to resummon from the grave. I try to avoid using sardonyx as a measuring stick of how skeletons operate. He is quite the exception to a lot of rules.

I really like all these ideas. Perhaps some Balances are needed. Hopefully Arcane Wonders like them too.


Thanks, Alex. I imagine there is plenty of balancing to be done, but hopefully not too many ideas are way off target.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Karadox on January 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Not sure, i think Dragon Bones are really hard, even if they are inside like Bird Bones,
The Armor From the Skeleton Knight comes from the Armor he wears.
You would also think that the Earth Elemantar is Hard and has Armor but I understand it...  when you hit an Earth Elemental you break down pieces, just as with Bones.

I find the Design for Skeletons good from "AW", more Hitpoints little Armor.

In the end it's your card ;)


Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 22, 2017, 01:07:21 PM
I would have most skeletons follow that format, but this card is the exception. This creature is meant to be extremely dense and hard to cut through, so armor seems appropriate.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: keejchen on January 22, 2017, 02:18:10 PM
For the golem I like the 3 armor, it is clearly a golem made of bones grafted together in an unnatural and fortified way, rather than a resurrected skeleton.

However, so many things have piercing these days. I think that 13 health is too little for 18 mana, the skeleton knight seems the better choice with same amount of attack dice and a defense. I vote for 16-18 health with the 3 armor.

Edit: Okay, I overlooked his rot chance, that makes him a lot stronger. With more health you would probably have to make the rot chance less, not sure. You could also consider the lumbering trait or something to that effect (i think slow would be too much), since other golem-like creatures are hindered in their move.
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: Karadox on January 22, 2017, 02:54:48 PM
keejchen is right, he needs more healt and make him subtype Skeleten, Golem
if you want to keep the 3 Armor = 17-18 Life
But I would give him no more than 2 Armor and 20-21 Life
Title: Re: Archmage custom cards
Post by: JasonBourneZombie on January 22, 2017, 05:09:35 PM
In terms of balance, a 3 armor creature with access to cheap healing via reassemble seems pretty durable. I can give him the golem subtype to help justify the armor. I'll pay close attention to him during testing. If he splats too easily, I'll improve him.