Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Player Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Grimstringer on June 29, 2017, 06:27:34 AM

Title: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Grimstringer on June 29, 2017, 06:27:34 AM
So i recently got mage wars,played my first two games yesterday, and had a blast! (apprentice warlock vs wizard)  and written books in the rulebooks necromancer vs wizard!

And i was thinking how awesome a Lich creature would be!  Since the necro was standing behind his horde, and as a man who respects the dead was sending them to do the work for him

why not have a caster to do your deeds aswell?

i imagine it as a Huge familiar, with maybe higher than normal familiar channeling(3-5), able to cast non creature spells, or dark/necro spells  (because another spawnpoint isnt needed)   because it's like a 2nd Mage for the player that casts it,  it should have some serious drawbacks , like need extra big mana cost, (like 20 ?) or a payment of a heavy load of life to cast him like pay 8 life   (lich needs a sacrifice/blood/ to reanimate that powerful body)  or have super low health for the casting cost, like 8 but with resilient or another idea is to not have life but to have 1-2 phylacteries that need to be destroyed  to die,or if he has life  they deal him direct dmg when they die, like 4 each ,you could hide them as enchantments,or they are normal small conjurations or something..havent though about that much yet.

i think it would be an awesome addition to the necromancer/dark school! but it really needs to be thought out to not be too powerful or so many drawbacks that it's  unplable, maybe it can have many drawbacks but it's powerful, that works i guess : P

another idea is it can easily turn to a boss fight in a battleground scenario, find the creatures that hold the liches' phylactery/ies while you try to not die to his powerful spells ,

so 2 ideas that popped up from my first play!


thanks for reading!
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Grimstringer on June 30, 2017, 04:22:52 AM
another idea/variant of this one is you become the lich creature,  you replace your mage card in the arena, and gain some buffs but with limitations/drawbacks like mentioned above!
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Arkdeniz on July 18, 2017, 05:59:57 PM
I think Lich would be a Mage, not a creature. Any familiar that had 3-5 channelling would be way too overpowered.

But an actual undead Mage that needs to be reconstructed rather than healed, that could work.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Karadox on July 19, 2017, 07:46:09 AM
Some card ideas...
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on July 19, 2017, 11:59:51 AM


Some card ideas...

OMG a dementor!!

KILL IT!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170719/717efd64e6c125c29b167c1c448c02f0.jpg)
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Beldin on July 21, 2017, 09:43:19 AM
Firstly I do not sure on the Lich transformation. The concept is cool, however I am not sure this design is best. I do like the idea that as an enchantment that it is a red reveal cost on death (I know you didn't do this but the intention is in the design). The extra life level (6 life) would have to be tested to see if this enough extra life, however my gut says it is correct. HOWEVER I would argue strongly against ANY card that give Resilience to the mage. The high armor problem is something that is something that is the back of every play testers mind. Infinite armor is no go, sorry.

The concept of Nebra is very cool, if vastly overcosted. I would say that a version B should exist where it does less of an attack and cast non-creature undead spells. The necromancer already has 2 spawnpoints and does not need a third. Also a reflected lower mana cost. As a lich I feel this is a better direction than a "Magic proof" enchantment. Magic proof objects are another cool design space but would have to be costed and designed very carefully.

The tomb sadly would be another coaster card. I see no point in playing it. It costs 8 on top of the already prescriptive 18 (toss up between this and grizzly). 26 mana is more than Adramelech. This is if you cast it the same turn as the Nebra. Every turn past this means more and more mana that sadly that I would rather put into another spell that gives me more value. This is very, very expensive for Cantrip. Maybe played by Timmy players, but I am not sure.

Nice concepts, but not quite there yet in my opinion. I am not attacking you or your designs, I am just giving you my honest feedback.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Karadox on July 21, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
No problem is only a concept and not finished, I rework it this days.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Werekingdom on October 20, 2017, 01:32:26 AM
No problem is only a concept and not finished, I rework it this days.

Hello Karadox,

I like your second concept of the Lich's,
I would prefer a very different stats:
Level 3 dark (I don't think any familiar should be over level 3.
Life: 13 with skeleten, or 6/7 incorporeal (13 incorporeal is just insane)
Armor: no armor. (if he is skele then he should have little or more likely no armor, if incorporeal  then no armor).
Channeling: 1 channeling should be the most any non-spawnpoint should normally channeling).
Attack: 2 dice plus +8 weak for incorporeal type Lich OR 2/3 dice plus vamperism (reconstruct vamp) for skele Lich. (A familiar should not have a range atk or high damage portenal, since his main job is to cast spells).
Traits: I like all the traits here, expect for Epic, and Incorporeal. I think that having the possibility to bring more copys of the card into your deck is importion. The Incorporeal is 50/50, on where a skele or incorporeal familiar is better.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Karadox on October 20, 2017, 07:51:09 AM
For me a Lich is one of the most powerful undead creature i think it needs to be at high level, lvl 3 does not feel right for me.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Coshade on October 20, 2017, 09:39:31 AM
Themeatically I have an issue with Nebra's range attack. I do not think a psychic attack can cause tainted at the same time.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: zot on October 20, 2017, 10:03:07 AM
   in the old school d&d days the lich was a ridiculously powerful creature. a minimum of level 20 cleric or magic user or both at the same time and level 20+ in each class. being that high of a level it was able to cast the most powerful spells of those classes and all the lower level spells. plus it was an intelligent creature. a very dangerous opponent, and most of the time killed one or more player characters when encountered.  I like the idea of a lich creature too. but balance of power versus cost could be tricky.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Karadox on October 20, 2017, 11:16:45 AM
"Themeatically I have an issue with Nebra's range attack. I do not think a psychic attack can cause tainted at the same time."
Coshade you are right i removed the damage Type from him.

I think for a real Lich the lowest level he shut be is lvl 5.
He should come close to the level of an Arena Mage or even higher in level, 5-7 level.
Level 8 should be reserved for dragons:-).
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: wtcannonjr on October 21, 2017, 07:52:38 AM
You may want to add Vampiric to the spells the Lich can cast. This allows it to cast Drain Life and Drain Soul incantations and makes the combo of Necromancer with a Lich very dangerous.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Karadox on October 21, 2017, 10:48:58 AM
He is undead if he casts the vampiric spellīs he don't get healed from it.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: DaveW on October 21, 2017, 11:30:47 AM
Just my opinion, of course....

I guess I don't see the Psychic Immunity if he can cast spells... surely he has a mind of some sort to influence.

I take exception to the two channeling also. That seems huge for the casting cost and versatility of the creature.

I would prefer that he not have armor, but could live with one armor.
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: wtcannonjr on October 22, 2017, 10:54:39 AM
He is undead if he casts the vampiric spellīs he don't get healed from it.
Good point. I missed that.

Perhaps all his attacks should include mana costs to help counter a channeling level of 2.

In the genre does a Lich typically get stronger by draining other creatures? If so, how do we include this relationship in the game if the creature is undead/incorporeal? We would need special rules unless we making the Lich a living creature similar to the Necropian Vampiress.

Hmmmm...
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: DaveW on October 22, 2017, 08:30:10 PM
In the genre does a Lich typically get stronger by draining other creatures? If so, how do we include this relationship in the game if the creature is undead/incorporeal?

How about taking away the ranged attack, but giving the creature Melee +1 when he lands a Weak?
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Karadox on October 23, 2017, 03:43:40 AM
What you think?
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: wtcannonjr on October 23, 2017, 06:04:13 AM
Nice.

I agree with the earlier poster about removing Psychic Immunity from Nebra. This seems inconsistent with the Channeling ability in my view.

A few corrections from this end -

1. I believe you mean Mana Transfer +1 for the attack trait.

2. "Familiar" is spelled with an 'a'.

3. "Incorporeal" has an 'r' before the 'p'.

One Final thought - does the Lich need the subtype Spirit to be consistent with the creature's archetype?
Title: Re: I think a Lich Creature is really missing!
Post by: Karadox on October 23, 2017, 08:18:54 AM
I removed psychic immunity because gray wraith is also not immune.
I thought a mighty undead like a lich, would have psychic immunity.