Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: EricTheGreat12 on November 27, 2017, 02:13:50 PM

Title: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 27, 2017, 02:13:50 PM
Hello everyone  ;D

It's been a long time since I've last posted, a little after when Paladin vs Siren was released. Every once in a while I'll look around, and see what is going on in the community.

A few expansions for Academy, but looking at these forums it's like a ghost town. I'm struggling to understand if this brand is going to survive in the short-term. We know that expansions are coming, but at this rate of releasing content this is not healthy for the business. It's understandable that they have other projects, but the lack of any word of progress from the creators tells me we're going to be heavily disappointed with how Mage Wars arena will continue to progress.

I do not attend any tournaments, but it would be interesting to hear from some people who the attendance is doing.

This was a great game for me in highschool, and the last thing I would want to see is it going down the drain because this game will be cast aside and forgotten.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Grimstringer on November 27, 2017, 03:04:09 PM
why are you in a rush? content comes, were the last sets released so many months ago? i don't think so

i actually like the slower approach, they test the game and offer great products

ffg release schedule is too much imo, something new every month or so. i like how it is, even if it takes long sometimes

you can play so many stufff with what exists already,you got bored of all the possibilities?

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: iNano78 on November 27, 2017, 04:07:05 PM
In terms of communication, it might seem particularly quiet because a lot of the frequent posters are also playtesters, and they're probably restricted from saying much. And since Laddinfance's departure, there is a lot less communication out from an "official" information source. The Arcane Duels team does their part (and is responsible for wielding the mighty banana hammer), but Matt (Ash) rarely posts, and I don't recall the last time Bryan Pope posted.

So yeah, forums seem dead in terms of product spoilers or hype, aside from the odd regional tournament. But at least there is some art for new Academy and Arena mages, as seen on the new Arcane Wonders store home page:
http://shop.arcanewonders.com/ (http://shop.arcanewonders.com/)

(http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-5zfm1x8aeh/product_images/theme_images/CharacterCollage.jpg)
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on November 27, 2017, 04:41:32 PM
No I agree - the huge lack of content for Arena has killed it, and several times I've brought people into the game to have them quit, because nothing new is coming out. In it's essence, Arena is not a boardgame, it's an LCG skirmish wargame, and both CCG/LCG's and Wargames survive on a constant stream of releases.

AW are a small company, and are doing what they can with the resources that they have, but the lack of releases and stirring up the metagame has had a large and negative impact. And no, Academy releases don't count (and there's not nearly enough of them if they did).
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 27, 2017, 04:58:56 PM
In terms of communication, it might seem particularly quiet because a lot of the frequent posters are also playtesters, and they're probably restricted from saying much. And since Laddinfance's departure, there is a lot less communication out from an "official" information source. The Arcane Duels team does their part (and is responsible for wielding the mighty banana hammer), but Matt (Ash) rarely posts, and I don't recall the last time Bryan Pope posted.

So yeah, forums seem dead in terms of product spoilers or hype, aside from the odd regional tournament. But at least there is some art for new Academy and Arena mages, as seen on the new Arcane Wonders store home page:
http://shop.arcanewonders.com/ (http://shop.arcanewonders.com/)

(http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-5zfm1x8aeh/product_images/theme_images/CharacterCollage.jpg)

I did notice the image earlier. But again, that doesn't account for the lack of people who are posting here on the forums. It feels like the public's interest for the game is quickly diminishing.

No I agree - the huge lack of content for Arena has killed it, and several times I've brought people into the game to have them quit, because nothing new is coming out. In it's essence, Arena is not a boardgame, it's an LCG skirmish wargame, and both CCG/LCG's and Wargames survive on a constant stream of releases.

AW are a small company, and are doing what they can with the resources that they have, but the lack of releases and stirring up the metagame has had a large and negative impact. And no, Academy releases don't count (and there's not nearly enough of them if they did).

Exactly. Academy is a good concept, but it is in no way a complete MW Arena Part 2. And communication would come a long way in helping the fanbase stay with Mage Wars. Having an expansion for Arena every 1-2 years is hurting our interest in this game.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 27, 2017, 05:23:27 PM
There should be 2 new mages or a new set per year for Arena (In a regular cycle).

We were promised frost spells, I want to see em.

I had heard that mounts should come.
I am not sure if this is a good idea. I think that would change the whole game.

If at least we would learn from time to time what is planned.

A set like Lost Grimoire should be possible every year. Some new spells for each spell school.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on November 27, 2017, 09:22:34 PM
As much as I agree things have slowed down on the forums.  I think there is a cycle that happens around the release of expansions where they are very active and than slow down.  That said as a play tester all I can say is content is being produced for the game and I am excited for what is around the corner. 

Activity for the game I feel is getting stronger in the sense that several groups around the Midwest have been and continue to host events.   Winter war Mage wars  tournament is in January. Getting together in Indy this weekend with peeps from Chicago, St Louis, Indy, and Champaign.    The game is still the  best game IMO with new  content or not.  It continues to be strong by the fans and I believe could continue to grow if players keep introducing it at their local game stores. Personally I feel things are very active around multiple communities.

 Is the game going to get as popular as some or any CCG or living card game? I don't think it needs too and prefer it stays a manageable set of cards and release cycle.  it would be nice if more players continued to play and it grew bigger. 

I would like to see some of things mentioned by others.  however  I am also pretty content of what has been produced for the game in the past couple of years is a decent amount.  We waited so long for PvS that we actually have had a lot of development since . And each expansion has made all the schools have more balance IMO

As far as communication goes from Mage wars I agree it could be better but I think that also has to do with how good others are doing about answering questions for new players.  And to give credit to Laddinfance he just did a great job at answering questions. 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: zot on November 27, 2017, 11:13:40 PM
also folks have likely been super busy with family events due to the holiday and time of year. i suspect it usually slows down a lot in november and december.

depending on where you are, i am having an impromptu mw weekend here in indy. anyone who can make it is welcome to attend. ping me for further details if you are planning on making it.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on November 28, 2017, 05:53:03 AM
As much as I agree things have slowed down on the forums.  I think there is a cycle that happens around the release of expansions where they are very active and than slow down. 

It's nothing whatsoever to do with expansions. It's been this way for most of Mage Wars' life. There have only been 2 brief periods that have even come close to a regular frequent release schedule.

That said as a play tester all I can say is content is being produced for the game and I am excited for what is around the corner. 

Hmmm... no comment!

Is the game going to get as popular as some or any CCG or living card game? I don't think it needs too and prefer it stays a manageable set of cards and release cycle.  it would be nice if more players continued to play and it grew bigger. 

It won't grow bigger (and hasn't) for precisely the reasons of not enough content. Quite the opposite, lots of players have left, we went from regular tournaments 2 years ago, and a national, to tournaments being cancelled at conventions for lack of interest, and local ones not being run. Academy won't help this at all.

I would like to see some of things mentioned by others.  however  I am also pretty content of what has been produced for the game in the past couple of years is a decent amount. 

Then that's where we differ - what's been produced in the last 2 years is enough for 6 months, no more.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on November 28, 2017, 06:14:36 AM
Yep!
I like slow tempo (expansions well built, less expenses and let me time to study the possibilities of a set before the next arrives), but we are here somewhere between a neurasthenic turtle and a one-legged snail...
I don't think MW will disappear: it's like that for many years and there's always another expansion, but, well, a word about a project, something about a new arena set (last one was a year ago!), would be cool!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 28, 2017, 07:03:41 AM
Let us see what you work on, give us something. It's christmas soon.
It would be nice to hear from arcane wanders what's coming up next year.


Be the way:
I did not think it was very good that we got the first pictures of forcemaster and warlord expansion from a trader in the internte, not as an announcement from arcane wanders.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on November 28, 2017, 07:09:20 AM
Yep!
I like slow tempo (expansions well built, less expenses and let me time to study the possibilities of a set before the next arrives), but we are here somewhere between a neurasthenic turtle and a one-legged snail...
I don't think MW will disappear: it's like that for many years and there's always another expansion, but, well, a word about a project, something about a new arena set (last one was a year ago!), would be cool!
Again no doubt that changes could or should be changed I am still sticking to what I have said.  I am excited for new expansions and have been think the releases that have came out have been pretty sweet.

I am fairly new to the forums than many players here so I can not really comment on how busy the forums were in the past.  I can just see from others who do care about the game still meet and still have local tourneys.  Yea I would love it if Mage Wars was more popular and I agree it most likely will not get that way.  However I think that local groups are doing a good job keeping excitement and creating events.  I can not speak tho for others outside of the Midwest but have hope that it's just a busy season right now like Zot has suggested.   
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 28, 2017, 08:34:51 AM
That said as a play tester all I can say is content is being produced for the game and I am excited for what is around the corner. 

 It continues to be strong by the fans and I believe could continue to grow if players keep introducing it at their local game stores. Personally I feel things are very active around multiple communities.

It would be nice if more players continued to play and it grew bigger. 

We waited so long for PvS that we actually have had a lot of development since.

As far as communication goes from Mage wars I agree it could be better but I think that also has to do with how good others are doing about answering questions for new players.  And to give credit to Laddinfance he just did a great job at answering questions.

1. New content that will please those who are patient enough to wait. But, is one expansion going to bring attention back, when those exact people realize that they are going to have to wait another year before they can see content after that again? We waited a long time for Paladin vs Siren and it was a breath of fresh air, but that doesn't solve the game's problems in the long run.

2. No one here is denying that this is a good game, I enjoyed it just as much as anyone else on this forum has. But  there comes a time where we have to realize that we are customers, we ask for and expect content. Again, it's not the quality that is killing this game, it's the lack of expansions at a steady pace that keeps the attention of the players. 

3. Laddinfance was a perfect liason in between the community and Arcane Wonders. I don't know the real reason why he left, but I thought the way he slowly showed off the PvsS cards to have been excellent; it was an excellent way to grab our attention and to keep us guessing. Whatever the reason for his leaving was, I am disappointed that no one has been able to properly take his position (No offence to PunHead or Coshade). Community interaction would come a long way in solving the diminishing fan base.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: zot on November 28, 2017, 09:37:43 AM
The liaison is TonyGullotti

I expect he is reviewing the site and should be commenting on things to provide updates. Certainly more frequently than near zero.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on November 28, 2017, 10:04:09 AM
Hey I'm sorry I'm just confused we have gotten warlord academy and forcemaster academy in the past year and I believe both of those have made new viable strategies available and allowed more flexibility to multiple schools.  Did it help make major hype for the game idk maybe not. 

I do know not everyone uses these forums and some players if not most newer players have directed questions to boardgamegeek from what I can tell.  And casual players may not go on any forums.

Yea more communication would be nice and focus on the brand would be great for he community I just think some are jumping to conclusions here. And the idea or this thread the game is dead is an old topic that has been brought up for years.

Sorry just not of fan of bashing the game or its creators here. 
No I don't speak for anyone this is just my opinion. 

One thing that would fix this is more open communication from arcane wonders and I totally agree they could do a lot more. arcane duels have developed great content and keep doing it.  So I do think they are doing their best to help keep the community going. 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 28, 2017, 10:26:55 AM
Hey I'm sorry I'm just confused we have gotten warlord academy and forcemaster academy in the past year and I believe both of those have made new viable strategies available and allowed more flexibility to multiple schools.  Did it help make major hype for the game idk maybe not. 

I do know not everyone uses these forums and some players if not most newer players have directed questions to boardgamegeek from what I can tell.  And casual players may not go on any forums.

Yea more communication would be nice and focus on the brand would be great for he community I just think some are jumping to conclusions here. And the idea or this thread the game is dead is an old topic that has been brought up for years.

Sorry just not of fan of bashing the game or its creators here. 
No I don't speak for anyone this is just my opinion. 

One thing that would fix this is more open communication from arcane wonders and I totally agree they could do a lot more. arcane duels have developed great content and keep doing it.  So I do think they are doing their best to help keep the community going. 

Ok, so we can agree on the lack of communication on the company's side of things. Arcane Duels is good, their coverage of the PvsS expansion was very helpful, but the point is to have better coverage between company and consumer.

-"Sorry just not of fan of bashing the game or its creators here."

Since when is criticism to be always a nuisance? I want to bring an important topic up that Arcane Wonders will hopefully reply to. I am not bashing the game either, and any concerns&criticisms are allowed here on this forum. I am not insulting the team in any way, all I want is to shed light on an issue that Arcane Wonders has been unable to properly address.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 28, 2017, 10:40:07 AM
I think we are all here, because "mage wars" is close to our hearts, and we see that something goes wrong.

Arcane Duels and Keejchen keep the game alive for me/ for us.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 28, 2017, 12:54:11 PM
I agree that activity on the forums has drastically decreased over time and a ton of people who used to be really into the game have left. In fact I would say that the majority of competitive Mage Wars players that we've had in this community over the past few years have already left.

I totally agree, this forum is basically a ghost town at the moment.

I don't think the slow release schedule is the problem. Mage Wars has a very large amount of possible viable spellbooks and arena maps and custom formats that it basically has infinite replayability. The slow release schedule would be fine if there was more community engagement and more frequent release of mage wars products in general besides just card expansions.

What we need is more content in general and more communication from AW, not just expansions. All of the organized play story material was taken down when the website was updated, and they still only have ONE book released and everything else story related is posted on the forums rather than being published in books where more casual players are more likely to see it. And the game has been out for almost six years.

The problem simply put in my opinion is that Arcane Wonders bit off more than they could chew by creating a game that was too big for them to support on their own with such a small staff. I think they should have asked for more help. Either by making some sort of partnership with another company that's willing to supply extra people to help but still lets AW do their own thing, or simply asking for more volunteer help from the fanbase.

I know there are probably a lot of things that they might not be comfortable having people do without paying people for it, but I think it's important to be realistic. There were many times where I felt like Arcane Wonders and the Mage Wars game and community would be much better off and much more engaging and active if they asked more fans to volunteer. I for one would have jumped at the chance to help write some official story material or help assist in designing official alternate variants for new battlegrounds sets if I was ever asked to, even if I wasn't being paid for it. And I doubt I was the only one to ever feel like this.

At this point I think that if Arcane Wonders wants their flagship game's online community to survive, they're basically depending on a few key fans. In particular the members of Arcane Duels. If sharkbait, coshade, and puddnhead stopped playing or even just got really busy for a long stretch of time at some point in the future, I suspect that the online mage wars community would largely disappear.

There are some offline playgroups that were built up enough that they're unlikely to disappear any time soon, such as the group in Charlotte, North Carolina. They probably will still be around and playing mage wars even after most everyone else stops playing.

The really sad thing is that mage wars is such a great game and has so much potential that in the hands of a bigger company it would most likely have been a much bigger success and would have almost certainly given collectable games like Magic or Warhammer a run for their money if not simply outshining them altogether.

I think that unless Arcane Wonders has a strategy for revitalizing their flagship game's community some time soon on their own, they should make some sort of deal with another company or perhaps even sell the game outright so they can focus more on their dice tower essentials line. They've bitten off more than they could chew and I think they should be honest with themselves and admit that. They should not let their love and attachment to mage wars make them succumb to sunk cost fallacy.

That being said, please take everything I've said here with a grain of salt. I've never run a business before and I don't have any expertise in the field. I'm just saying how things look to me as I see it with the limited understanding that I have. That being said, I am a die-hard fan of the game and I've been playing it since 2013, and if I am seeing things this way, there's a good chance that others have similar perspectives. That might even be why so many well known mage wars lovers in this community have left. Nobody wants to stick around on what they perceive to be a sinking ship.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: grga.curkovic on November 28, 2017, 01:50:05 PM
I've communicated to AW staff on a few occasions related to my work on spellbook builder. While Aaron was around it kind of felt like there is a chance AW will actually do something about MW, but he was let go in Dec 2016 and after that Toni took over. Communicating with Toni has been a total disaster and at some point I gave up. And it's not just Toni, I have a feeling that AW just doesn't give a s**t about MW and MW community.

Playtesters see things we don't so their perspective is different, but that is of little comfort to the rest of us.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 28, 2017, 04:12:46 PM
I've communicated to AW staff on a few occasions related to my work on spellbook builder. While Aaron was around it kind of felt like there is a chance AW will actually do something about MW, but he was let go in Dec 2016 and after that Toni took over. Communicating with Toni has been a total disaster and at some point I gave up. And it's not just Toni, I have a feeling that AW just doesn't give a s**t about MW and MW community.

November 9th was the last time that he was online. So no, I doubt that he is the community liaison, he only looks like someone who is here & there, and probably prefers to work on the game instead of being on the community forums.

The first step might be to get someone who was as engaged as Aaron was; that would be an excellent start. Arcane Wonders needs to put in more effort, the fact that a lot of products other than Mage Wars are being released tells me that it's more than simply expanding their production line: they will soon bring this brand to a close.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: zot on November 28, 2017, 05:24:29 PM
i think tony is the marketing person and if so it is definitely his job.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: RomeoXero on November 28, 2017, 07:20:39 PM
This topic pops up about once a year and it always gets super dour and "hate on AW"ish. For real. Aaron was a wonderful guy but he obviously found something better and moved on. Tony is doing a job but literally half of aarons job was dealing with us. He was super industrious and went above and beyond a lot of the time. Now i cant really speak fot AW but the product is good. The game is fun. I play it often and constantly see new stuff, even with older cards. Just cuz you dont like the academy/arena interactions doesn't mean they arent viable expa sions to the game. I see the new warlord stuff about half the time i play. I know the forcemaster stuff is getting use too. I see firestream now more than i see flameblast. The new holy shit is all over Rhett place, who doesnt run cure? Or remove curse? Glancing blow? Sangine thirst? The game got bigger like 3 times this last year and all i hear is bitching! How many mages and expansions do you want in a year? 2? 4? Not to mention AW isnt that huge. Its not like this is fantasy flight or plaid hat for crying out loud. And as for the quiet forums? These are player generated forums! If you dont say things on them, nothing shows up! Arcane duels and keechjen work very hard on there own time to provide the online content we enjoy so much, Silverclawgrizzly and myself try to keep write ups on mages and cards around for folks to discuss, Sharkey does all the programming for octgn basically by himself (with help from puddnhead and possibly others) puddnhead logs on  evry Tuesday to play and record games with new ideas or fun concepts for us all to enjoy. Bottom line is there are folks doing the work, ans if you think something is lacking or .missing or just something you'd like to see that's not out there? MAKE IT YOURSELF! record that match with your best book! Post that new siren idea. Show us that fancy card interaction you came accross. Want a more active forum base? Be more active. I ask at the end of every "Card of the" episode if theres something you want to hear about. 2 people have asked me. 2. So at the end of the day they are all working for our entertainment and then about once a year folks show up here to throw the rotten tomatos of "AW sucks, this game is dying". Its a shame really.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 28, 2017, 08:06:41 PM
This topic pops up about once a year and it always gets super dour and "hate on AW"ish. For real. Aaron was a wonderful guy but he obviously found something better and moved on. Tony is doing a job but literally half of aarons job was dealing with us. He was super industrious and went above and beyond a lot of the time. Now i cant really speak fot AW but the product is good. The game is fun. I play it often and constantly see new stuff, even with older cards. Just cuz you dont like the academy/arena interactions doesn't mean they arent viable expa sions to the game. I see the new warlord stuff about half the time i play. I know the forcemaster stuff is getting use too. I see firestream now more than i see flameblast. The new holy shit is all over Rhett place, who doesnt run cure? Or remove curse? Glancing blow? Sangine thirst? The game got bigger like 3 times this last year and all i hear is bitching! How many mages and expansions do you want in a year? 2? 4? Not to mention AW isnt that huge. Its not like this is fantasy flight or plaid hat for crying out loud. And as for the quiet forums? These are player generated forums! If you dont say things on them, nothing shows up! Arcane duels and keechjen work very hard on there own time to provide the online content we enjoy so much, Silverclawgrizzly and myself try to keep write ups on mages and cards around for folks to discuss, Sharkey does all the programming for octgn basically by himself (with help from puddnhead and possibly others) puddnhead logs on  evry Tuesday to play and record games with new ideas or fun concepts for us all to enjoy. Bottom line is there are folks doing the work, ans if you think something is lacking or .missing or just something you'd like to see that's not out there? MAKE IT YOURSELF! record that match with your best book! Post that new siren idea. Show us that fancy card interaction you came accross. Want a more active forum base? Be more active. I ask at the end of every "Card of the" episode if theres something you want to hear about. 2 people have asked me. 2. So at the end of the day they are all working for our entertainment and then about once a year folks show up here to throw the rotten tomatos of "AW sucks, this game is dying". Its a shame really.

So then why do you think people ask this so often? Do you see it as a brand doing well when somebody has to ask every once in a while whether or not this brand & company is still alive and working on future projects?

This forum is to discuss the game, on ideas that can be positive and negative. Not every post has to be on a certain card or about a certain mage. If you are tired of seeing posts like this, maybe you could ask Arcane Wonders to help this conversation out, so we can understand what is going on in the development cycle.

If you think I am throwing rotten tomatoes and that I hate everything and everyone, then why isn’t the community alive and thriving? Does the state of this forum reassure you of what is to come for Mage Wars ?
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: RomeoXero on November 28, 2017, 09:26:42 PM
 The fact is, the folks i see doing the majority of the town fruit throwing are conspicuously absent from the meta... when they aren't complaining about the meta. I dont see them on octgn, contributing to discussions, on discord, on the octgn chat (when it worked), at the cons with tournaments or even here in the forums posting books, questions, advice, or theory. Its frustrating.

And yes i am quite pleased with the attention this game has and its aims for the future. I listed all the reasons why in the last post. I'm enjoying myself. That's really what it comes down to. I'm sorry sone folks arent but that's not AWs fault. Its theirs.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on November 28, 2017, 09:33:33 PM
Wow ok Eric it sure sounds like u are throwing something.   I am on board with Romeo here. 

Ok so I am all for constructive criticism and I do hear some valid points from viewpoints I don't necessarily agree with and that is ok.  But when I hear this game is dead it gets under my skin too.  I do not agree and think it is foolish to jump to conclusions or even make such grandiose statements.  We can agree to Disagree tho and you can believe what u want . 

This thread reminds me of my kiddos who just want more more more.   All have to say is some people can be grateful some do not.  I'm a positive person and will remain optimistic about the future of the game. 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: grga.curkovic on November 29, 2017, 01:54:18 AM
From what I picked up, Aaron was let go, he didn't quit and that is something that makes me doubt how AW is handling MW.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Grimstringer on November 29, 2017, 04:39:31 AM
This topic pops up about once a year and it always gets super dour and "hate on AW"ish. For real. Aaron was a wonderful guy but he obviously found something better and moved on. Tony is doing a job but literally half of aarons job was dealing with us. He was super industrious and went above and beyond a lot of the time. Now i cant really speak fot AW but the product is good. The game is fun. I play it often and constantly see new stuff, even with older cards. Just cuz you dont like the academy/arena interactions doesn't mean they arent viable expa sions to the game. I see the new warlord stuff about half the time i play. I know the forcemaster stuff is getting use too. I see firestream now more than i see flameblast. The new holy shit is all over Rhett place, who doesnt run cure? Or remove curse? Glancing blow? Sangine thirst? The game got bigger like 3 times this last year and all i hear is bitching! How many mages and expansions do you want in a year? 2? 4? Not to mention AW isnt that huge. Its not like this is fantasy flight or plaid hat for crying out loud. And as for the quiet forums? These are player generated forums! If you dont say things on them, nothing shows up! Arcane duels and keechjen work very hard on there own time to provide the online content we enjoy so much, Silverclawgrizzly and myself try to keep write ups on mages and cards around for folks to discuss, Sharkey does all the programming for octgn basically by himself (with help from puddnhead and possibly others) puddnhead logs on  evry Tuesday to play and record games with new ideas or fun concepts for us all to enjoy. Bottom line is there are folks doing the work, ans if you think something is lacking or .missing or just something you'd like to see that's not out there? MAKE IT YOURSELF! record that match with your best book! Post that new siren idea. Show us that fancy card interaction you came accross. Want a more active forum base? Be more active. I ask at the end of every "Card of the" episode if theres something you want to hear about. 2 people have asked me. 2. So at the end of the day they are all working for our entertainment and then about once a year folks show up here to throw the rotten tomatos of "AW sucks, this game is dying". Its a shame really.

So then why do you think people ask this so often? Do you see it as a brand doing well when somebody has to ask every once in a while whether or not this brand & company is still alive and working on future projects?

This forum is to discuss the game, on ideas that can be positive and negative. Not every post has to be on a certain card or about a certain mage. If you are tired of seeing posts like this, maybe you could ask Arcane Wonders to help this conversation out, so we can understand what is going on in the development cycle.

If you think I am throwing rotten tomatoes and that I hate everything and everyone, then why isn’t the community alive and thriving? Does the state of this forum reassure you of what is to come for Mage Wars ?


threads like this pop up in the mtg forums aswell, so that's not an argument "magic is dying, attendance is low? etc"

if you want activity make it yourself, else jump into another game with community if you dont want to work for it,or another game with releases every month, or more
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: grga.curkovic on November 29, 2017, 05:11:33 AM
Most of us (including myself) are working for it, our complaints are that AW is not.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 29, 2017, 06:15:03 AM
rga.curkovic did amazing work with his Spellbook Builder. But arcane wonders should have done that themselves!
Pegasus has stopped translating Mage Wars into german.
Since Aaron left us, there is virtually no communication left.

Shows that a positive development? May be all that looks different for a Playtester.

I think we all agree, Mage Wars is such a good game it deserves much more.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Grimstringer on November 29, 2017, 06:21:49 AM
the thread started as "rare product releases" they do work for releases, they come and they are great.

i guess the subject changed now

it's a small company, better try to help out however you can
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 29, 2017, 06:42:48 AM
I think we all agree, Mage Wars is such a good game it deserves much more.

Yes !!

This topic pops up about once a year and it always gets super dour and "hate on AW"ish. For real. Aaron was a wonderful guy but he obviously found something better and moved on. Tony is doing a job but literally half of aarons job was dealing with us. He was super industrious and went above and beyond a lot of the time. Now i cant really speak fot AW but the product is good. The game is fun. I play it often and constantly see new stuff, even with older cards. Just cuz you dont like the academy/arena interactions doesn't mean they arent viable expa sions to the game. I see the new warlord stuff about half the time i play. I know the forcemaster stuff is getting use too. I see firestream now more than i see flameblast. The new holy shit is all over Rhett place, who doesnt run cure? Or remove curse? Glancing blow? Sangine thirst? The game got bigger like 3 times this last year and all i hear is bitching! How many mages and expansions do you want in a year? 2? 4? Not to mention AW isnt that huge. Its not like this is fantasy flight or plaid hat for crying out loud. And as for the quiet forums? These are player generated forums! If you dont say things on them, nothing shows up! Arcane duels and keechjen work very hard on there own time to provide the online content we enjoy so much, Silverclawgrizzly and myself try to keep write ups on mages and cards around for folks to discuss, Sharkey does all the programming for octgn basically by himself (with help from puddnhead and possibly others) puddnhead logs on  evry Tuesday to play and record games with new ideas or fun concepts for us all to enjoy. Bottom line is there are folks doing the work, ans if you think something is lacking or .missing or just something you'd like to see that's not out there? MAKE IT YOURSELF! record that match with your best book! Post that new siren idea. Show us that fancy card interaction you came accross. Want a more active forum base? Be more active. I ask at the end of every "Card of the" episode if theres something you want to hear about. 2 people have asked me. 2. So at the end of the day they are all working for our entertainment and then about once a year folks show up here to throw the rotten tomatos of "AW sucks, this game is dying". Its a shame really.

So then why do you think people ask this so often? Do you see it as a brand doing well when somebody has to ask every once in a while whether or not this brand & company is still alive and working on future projects?

This forum is to discuss the game, on ideas that can be positive and negative. Not every post has to be on a certain card or about a certain mage. If you are tired of seeing posts like this, maybe you could ask Arcane Wonders to help this conversation out, so we can understand what is going on in the development cycle.

If you think I am throwing rotten tomatoes and that I hate everything and everyone, then why isn’t the community alive and thriving? Does the state of this forum reassure you of what is to come for Mage Wars ?
if you want activity make it yourself, else jump into another game with community if you dont want to work for it,or another game with releases every month, or more

So I should be the excuse for Arcane Wonder's poor planning? I could reply to every thread on this forum, it wouldn't change the basic idea that this community is diminishing, and that it has become more quiet as time goes on. Again I ask you: If you think I am throwing rotten tomatoes and that I hate everything and everyone, then why isn’t the community alive and thriving? Does the state of this forum reassure you of what is to come for Mage Wars ?

I am involved in other forums for other games, I am even participating in a forum for a game that's been dead for 11 years. Ironically, that forum is more active than this one.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 29, 2017, 06:52:11 AM
You say it you self...

"better try to help out however you can"

If you see this as an attack, you do not understand the meaning of criticism, and suggestions for improvement.

I think I also make my contribution, even if he does not seem so big in the custom card area of the forum.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on November 29, 2017, 08:51:06 AM
Alright I'm all for making the game better for the community bigger or keeping it alive.   Instead of complaining and arguing what are some steps that we can do as a community to keep it going? 

 Here are some examples that I have heard/ seen that we the players and fans can contribute to and/or keep doing. 

Keep running games in your local community.
Keep playing games on OCTGN
Keep making fan made ideas for the game or content to support the game. 
Start a tournament online or locally. 
Post on the forums and stay active. 

As far addressing Bryan or AW I propose someone write a letter stating our concerns and everybody from past and present sign it so that we could be heard.  I don't want to be in charge of this letter but I do ask it will be respectful and polite in our grievances.  This will A) look more professional and B) be something we can all support hopefully and not carry a negative division in our community.   This may take a few edits for everyone to agree on but if written this way it should help. 

I may not agree on everything said here but I do know many of you have valid points and concerns.  Many of you have created awesome content and/ or have been active on these forums for a very long time.
I'm sure many of this things AW is aware of it but maybe not.  We should not assume anything. 

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on November 29, 2017, 11:12:21 AM
Alright I'm all for making the game better for the community bigger or keeping it alive.   Instead of complaining and arguing what are some steps that we can do as a community to keep it going? 

 Here are some examples that I have heard/ seen that we the players and fans can contribute to and/or keep doing. 

Keep running games in your local community.
Keep playing games on OCTGN
Keep making fan made ideas for the game or content to support the game. 
Start a tournament online or locally. 
Post on the forums and stay active. 

As far addressing Bryan or AW I propose someone write a letter stating our concerns and everybody from past and present sign it so that we could be heard.  I don't want to be in charge of this letter but I do ask it will be respectful and polite in our grievances.  This will A) look more professional and B) be something we can all support hopefully and not carry a negative division in our community.   This may take a few edits for everyone to agree on but if written this way it should help. 

I may not agree on everything said here but I do know many of you have valid points and concerns.  Many of you have created awesome content and/ or have been active on these forums for a very long time.
I'm sure many of this things AW is aware of it but maybe not.  We should not assume anything. 

Hope this helps.

Seriously, it does help. Thank you  :)

I will start trying out OCTGN, but Montreal is unfortunately not a very popular board-game centered area *  :-\

* Nevermind, MAC seems to no longer be supported
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on November 29, 2017, 11:24:35 AM
Bryan and AW are aware of these issues, very aware - they just don't have the resources to do anything with it. It looks no different from a Playtester perspective I assure you.

One thing that I think is an issue (this is my opinion, not inside knowledge) is that when launched AW had one product - MW Arena. They now have 10 different products, on the same or lower staff - that's not 10 expansions - that doesn't include MW expansions, they have 10 different products, of which Arena and Academy are just two (and Battlegrounds/Domination isn't one, because it's not counted as a separate product). 80% of their portfolio is utterly unrelated to MW, whilst we of course are just MW fans and looking at this little slice of a bigger pie from their perspective - but of course, that slice used to be the whole pie.

Another issue from my perspective is the focus is very much on Academy, not Area, and Academy is of only very limited help to Arena. It does something, but not enough. AW believes Academy is the right focus from a marketing perspective right now, and from a business perspective (smaller sets, higher profit, more casual and thus wider audience) I think they are probably right. Sadly. It's very galling, that given the resources AW has to work with, they probably are making the right commercial decisions for the company. Which is to let Arena languish with occasional love. It missed the boat (not sure it was ever possible in truth) on a big ticket partnership 5-6 years back, and it is where it is.

I don't believe there is any harm in calling a spade a spade however, and talking about things - that's what forums are for. As long as everyone is respectful to each other and AW, and they are being.

Online play via OCTGN may be increasingly the way forward - it certainly seems to be a healthy playing community there than in person. Personally though I don't play online, and I don't test online, I don't play Battlegrounds, and I don't play Academy - I play Arena, face to face and with real cards, which is what I'll continue to do as long as I have opponents. They are still there, but we are more niche playgroups now in the UK. The US seems to be doing better than before I think, but Europe has fallen hard.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: zot on November 29, 2017, 01:45:06 PM
it is very well known it is so much more cost effective to retain current customers than to acquire new ones.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 29, 2017, 02:06:12 PM
What would the community look like today if academy were first produced?

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 29, 2017, 03:20:18 PM
What would the community look like today if academy were first produced?
I had the same thought before. I think the community probably would be bigger if Academy had been made before Arena. People might have seen Arena as Academy taken up to 11, rather than seeing Academy as Arena lite.

The other problem I see is that Arena was marketed as being for both cardgamers and minis gamers, when it probably would have appealed more to minis gamers than card gamers. To be honest, I think Mage Wars Arena could in theory have gone the minis route full stop, by replacing all the cards with minis and putting all the card text in the rule book instead. It would have basically been the same game, except a lot harder to learn and a lot more expensive.

I think maybe Arena should have been targeted towards a demographic of minis players who wanted to try something less expensive after being burnt out on collectible minis games. Academy is the game they should have targeted towards the card gamer demographic originally, NOT Arena. When I tell people about Arena I tell them that it's basically a minis game that uses cards instead of minis. None of that "combines the best aspects of card games and..." bs.

I can't help noticing also that the way they marketed Arena and Academy is a bit off the mark and maybe even a bit misleading. Mage Wars overall is an extremely modular fantasy combat system. You can basically have any sort of awesome mage duel you want with it. And yet they marketed Arena as "the customizable strategy game of dueling mages" which doesn't at all focus on what is unique and good about Arena or even about Mage Wars itself. It is an extremely generic description that doesn't say anything about what makes Mage Wars stand apart from other magical dueling game franchises.

And as for Academy, they ended up marketing it as "the stand-alone game set in the Mage Wars Universe". This description is entirely unhelpful because 1. There's barely any story material available in the Mage Wars universe, so basically no one, and especially no potential new player, knows or cares about it taking place in the Mage Wars Universe, and 2. All games are considered standalone by default unless people have reason to believe otherwise. If it's really stand-alone then you shouldn't need to actually say that because players will be able to see it for themselves. So saying that it's stand-alone is unhelpful at best and makes people think you're trying to make them think it's more stand-alone than it is at worst.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Borg on November 29, 2017, 03:55:14 PM
I used to be pretty active on this forum and have been a member since day 1 - literally, august 4 2012 - but this is my first post in 7 months.

I started playing Magic again several months ago and was amazed and exstatic when I found out how many fantastic cards and mechanics had been released since I left long ago.
I'm having a blast building decks again. Just the sheer possibilities and variety is incredible. Looking back on MW now - it looks like every MW book is 50% identical. No variation.
If you want to destroy an equipment in MW you have 1 or 2 viable cards.
In Magic there are at least twenty ways to take out artifacts and they all are better or worse depending on what deck you're running.

I realise some of you will not like to read this and it somehow pains me to say this as well but there is a serious lack of variety in MW ( due to the lack of releases and content ).
I didn't see or realise this either as long as I was having MW as my main hobby but now that I've picked up Magic again there's no denying how much better this game has become over the years.

I'm sure one day I'll pick up MW again though, but at this point I find Magic Deckbuilding & playing an absolute treat.

Just in case anyone's interested to check them out, here are my decks I've released so far. I have literally 50 more decks in the works :)
https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/?lng=en

Sayonara.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on November 30, 2017, 02:40:23 AM
As far addressing Bryan or AW I propose someone write a letter stating our concerns and everybody from past and present sign it so that we could be heard.  I don't want to be in charge of this letter but I do ask it will be respectful and polite in our grievances.  This will A) look more professional and B) be something we can all support hopefully and not carry a negative division in our community.   This may take a few edits for everyone to agree on but if written this way it should help. 
I would sign the letter.

Another issue from my perspective is the focus is very much on Academy, not Area, and Academy is of only very limited help to Arena. It does something, but not enough. AW believes Academy is the right focus from a marketing perspective right now, and from a business perspective (smaller sets, higher profit, more causal and thus wider audience) I think they are probably right. Sadly. It's very galling, that given the resources AW has to work with, they probably are making the right commercial decisions for the company. Which is to let Arena languish with occasional love. It missed the boat (not sure it was ever possible in truth) on a big ticket partnership 5-6 years back, and it is where it is.
that's a very sad point of view... but I'm affraid it's right.
Arena will never be a best seller: to complicate, to long. We can't reproach AW to want to make monney! I don't like academy (to simple, to short), but I'm sure it has more chance to sell than arena.
We allready have enough cards to create a lot of fun spellbooks, but I hope they'll continue to edit new sets every 2 or 3 years to arouse the interest and give me the plesure of a few more games.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 30, 2017, 05:48:12 AM
I real realy like to play Arena its the Best game.
Mage Wars Arena is always my first choice.

Academy, I think I would mostly choose to play magic the gathering instead.
Its not just to simpel, 40 spellbook points is just not enough for my taste 120 is just right.

I understand the decision to establish academy first, but for us who like arena, should at least once a year, something like Lost Grimoire appear. It could also contain spells that expand the tactics of academy for leverl 6 arena mages.
For the new mage sets, take all the time you need.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 30, 2017, 05:50:14 AM
As far addressing Bryan or AW I propose someone write a letter stating our concerns and everybody from past and present sign it so that we could be heard.  I don't want to be in charge of this letter but I do ask it will be respectful and polite in our grievances.  This will A) look more professional and B) be something we can all support hopefully and not carry a negative division in our community.   This may take a few edits for everyone to agree on but if written this way it should help. 
I would sign the letter.

Another issue from my perspective is the focus is very much on Academy, not Area, and Academy is of only very limited help to Arena. It does something, but not enough. AW believes Academy is the right focus from a marketing perspective right now, and from a business perspective (smaller sets, higher profit, more causal and thus wider audience) I think they are probably right. Sadly. It's very galling, that given the resources AW has to work with, they probably are making the right commercial decisions for the company. Which is to let Arena languish with occasional love. It missed the boat (not sure it was ever possible in truth) on a big ticket partnership 5-6 years back, and it is where it is.
that's a very sad point of view... but I'm affraid it's right.
Arena will never be a best seller: to complicate, to long. We can't reproach AW to want to make monney! I don't like academy (to simple, to short), but I'm sure it has more chance to sell than arena.
We allready have enough cards to create a lot of fun spellbooks, but I hope they'll continue to edit new sets every 2 or 3 years to arouse the interest and give me the plesure of a few more games.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but there are minis games that are just as long and complex as mage wars arena which have been a lot more successful, right?

As for writing a letter, that is pointless. They probably are already aware that the forums have been getting less active and the game less popular. I'm pretty sure they still pay attention to what their customers say on their forums, and if they don't why would you expect them to respond to a letter?

Mage Wars isn't dead, and it isn't necessarily dying per se. At least not yet, I think. But the online community has become kind of a ghost town, and I think the majority of the active players have either left or become significantly less active over time.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on November 30, 2017, 06:00:59 AM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but there are minis games that are just as long and complex as mage wars arena which have been a lot more successful, right?

for sure, but minis players often love the mini (paint it, admire it, put it near theire bed,...), the same game withe paper cards doesn't target the same players.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 30, 2017, 06:13:54 AM
I understand the decision to establish academy first, but for us "old" arena players, should at least once a year, something like lost grimoire appear.
It could also contain spells that expand the tactics of academy mages for leverl 6 arena mages.

For the new mage sets, take all the time you need.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 30, 2017, 06:22:57 AM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but there are minis games that are just as long and complex as mage wars arena which have been a lot more successful, right?

for sure, but minis players often love the mini (paint it, admire it, put it near theire bed,...), the same game withe paper cards doesn't target the same players.

I find it a bit strange and kind of annoying that people here seem to be ignoring almost everything I've said in this thread so far. I feel like I've raised a lot of valid points and put a lot of thought into my responses, and then people start talking about tomato throwing. I had to send a pm asking if the tomato throwing comment applied to any of what I wrote in this thread and I was told it didn't.

You are acting like this is an entirely new point that I just raised, but it isn't. Scroll up or look at earlier pages in this thread and you will see that I already said that they should have targeted arena towards a demographic of *minis players who were burnt out on collectible minis games and wanted to try something less expensive*. As for the painting minis thing, Arcane wonders probably should have allowed custom-mage art cards, or at least mage art cards that can be colored in, as well as a greater variety of card sleeves. Releasing more spellbook binders and other merchandise that can be used to customize one's collection such as the status boards was a step in the right direction I think.
And not all minis gamers are in it for the painting. Some just want to play.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 30, 2017, 06:26:27 AM
Sailor Vulcan i think you are right in all what you posted.

I do not like to paint minis, i'm bad in it :)
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 30, 2017, 06:54:03 AM
Another thing I would like to say is that I think arcane wonders DOES care about their fan base. I've interacted with them before at cons as well as online, they've been very accommodating about sending replacement parts when someone complains about a missing or damaged game piece etc., when they realized the wizard was unbalanced and couldn't be rebalanced with new card releases they recognized that and errata'd him. In the past when people noticed problems in the rules they would listen and make a ruling. (Although nowadays it seems like zuberi is doing a lot of that for them using his superb and comprehensive understanding of the rules as intended. If zuberi says something about the rules, it's strong evidence of AW's intent with those rules.)

They do care about their fan base, they probably just don't have much time to talk to us because they have too much work to do. Like I said earlier, they're a very small company and they bit off more than they could chew.

I hope they are reading this thread, in particular my responses lol. I would really like it if they gave us some sign that they were still listening to us, since their engagement with the community has been almost non-existent lately. Although considering how much is probably on their plate, I'm not sure how likely they are to make reading this particular thread a priority, especially since there is a "Mage Wars is dead or dying" thread every year.

It's like the boy who cried wolf. By the time the wolf actually becomes close enough to threaten you, people don't believe you anymore.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on November 30, 2017, 07:37:38 AM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but there are minis games that are just as long and complex as mage wars arena which have been a lot more successful, right?

for sure, but minis players often love the mini (paint it, admire it, put it near theire bed,...), the same game withe paper cards doesn't target the same players.

I find it a bit strange and kind of annoying that people here seem to be ignoring almost everything I've said in this thread so far. I feel like I've raised a lot of valid points and put a lot of thought into my responses, and then people start talking about tomato throwing. I had to send a pm asking if the tomato throwing comment applied to any of what I wrote in this thread and I was told it didn't.

You are acting like this is an entirely new point that I just raised, but it isn't. Scroll up or look at earlier pages in this thread and you will see that I already said that they should have targeted arena towards a demographic of *minis players who were burnt out on collectible minis games and wanted to try something less expensive*. As for the painting minis thing, Arcane wonders probably should have allowed custom-mage art cards, or at least mage art cards that can be colored in, as well as a greater variety of card sleeves. Releasing more spellbook binders and other merchandise that can be used to customize one's collection such as the status boards was a step in the right direction I think.
And not all minis gamers are in it for the painting. Some just want to play.
I understand your point.
But I think MW would be a poor eyes and the hands experience for mini-players.
(and I like MW because I'm bad with paint! I came to MW throw "MtG with 2D experience")
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on November 30, 2017, 08:43:07 AM
Hey I am listening to every comment people have said and sorry for not siting everything that is said here Sailor.  I get the mini comparison and do believe it is part of MW charm and possible downfall is that the game is neither minis or ccg or even a living card game. It is a combination of those that imo what makes it so great it takes the best parts of those and does not have the hassle of mini painting,  luck in card draw, or how much you need to spend to be competitive.    That being said MW is a hybrid game that may not appeal to those players who like the those same things that are missing from their types of games.

I agree that maybe if marketed like you said sailor with more specificity and a bigger push from the company it maybe would of reached out to different genres of gaming. 

I'm not sure how the landscape of magewars would of looked if academy came out earlier imo again I feel other card games would over shadow academy and for the same reason academy just being another card dueling game in the market. 

I have said this some where in a past post that academy had the worst possible time frame for coming out.  It came out around the time of the updated VS game and Ashes rise of the Phoenix born card game which were two other solid hyped games the same year academy came out.  Just really bad timing for AW and academy I think.


I was just throwing out ideas if it's bad idea that is fine.  Just looking for solutions to a problem I feel it is still not as bad as some have made it out to be.  But again I'm just satisfied and glass half full kind of guy.   :D



Good point Sailor The binders and more custom card creation is a good way to start and giving players a feel of customization.  Like this idea a lot.  The minis would of been i nice feature as well and maybe would of got those players into the game.  I believe Aaron talked about minis being made it just must of never worked out.


On a side not could we change banana stickers into tomato stickers  :P
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 30, 2017, 09:21:01 AM
farkas1 you and Sailor Vulcan have good points.

I for me, i dont like minis for mage wars maybe for the Mages....

hehe yahh... Trow a tomatoe sticker at me! ;D

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1698407/thoughts-next-expansion

Aaron Brosman
   
I'm almost 100% positive the next expansion will have Frost damage spells in it. It's something we originally meant to have back in Druid vs. Necromancer, but it ended up not fitting with the Mage we were making. However, unless something pretty drastic happens I'd expect Freeze/Frost Damage to be in the next set.

Posted Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:31 am
   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure most of you have already seen that.
As i know its the last info we got for an upcomming arena set.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on November 30, 2017, 10:46:14 AM
 ;D frost damages is a scam an armor dealer invented once to make a beastmaster buy a new fur!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 30, 2017, 11:58:49 AM
What best aspects of ccgs does arena use which you are talking about? Arena is basically just a minis game that uses cards instead of minis. If you switched all the  cards for minis and put all the card text in the rulebook instead it would be the same game  just harder to learn and more expensive. And it isn't merely "like" a lcg, Arena for all intents and purposes IS an lcg, but they don't call it that because FFG copyrighted the name of that distribution model, which is bs and I don't understand how that's even legal for them to do but whatever.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on November 30, 2017, 12:43:27 PM
So i think other than the business model of ccg games they are very similar.  Both are usually a duel, both use cards and some symbols to designate card types, there is types of cards enchantments, attack spells, creatures, ect.  They both use colors to separate the card types.  they have a somewhat unique factor in some cards being labeled legendary, unique.  ect. 

LCG use this model too as far as formatting.  I agree with you Sailor, I think MW borrowed the mentality of their business model more from LCG.  It is not identical because LCG's still produce a crazy amount of expansions for the game and either new cards start to make older cards unplayable or the company phases out cards out of circulation or tournaments.  Both CCG and LCG business models are about creating vast content but they depend on the phasing out of cards to re brand the idea again which I feel takes advantage of the consumers in a way.

The biggest difference which i can see from mini war games and MW is that they just feel different.  Mini war games require a big portion of knowing the rules, the stats and I think in the end requires more fiddliness flipping through rules and text for units ect.  MW the card tells you basically what the stats are and no hassle flipping pages for rules or the specific creature stats.  By using cards it helps the player know what they need to know without flipping through a rule book and requires less mental energy remembering what the opponents creatures can do by having it right there on the card.   Obviously some of these things could be tweaked to ensure  ease of play.  but then they become different games really. 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 30, 2017, 04:27:18 PM
To be honest, even though I said that I've been playing since 2013, the truth is that in the entire five years I've been playing, I've only played maybe two or three full games of arena offline outside of conventions. Every other time I played mage wars was either at a convention or on OCTGN. I've honestly tried to build the community here, but I've never had enough organizational skills nor regularity in my schedule to devote a couple of hours at the same time every week to promoting Mage Wars at an FLGS. The only other mage wars player who lives in my area is sharkbait, and although he said that he would get around to it eventually, that was a couple years ago and I've asked him several more times since then and he's still too busy and I kinda doubt at this point that he's ever actually going to start building the community here. And I honestly don't think I can do it on my own, if at all.

Arcane Wonders ambassadors are supposed to have a rewards system where they get extra credit in the online store for the amount of time they spend promoting arcane wonders products.

For almost the entire time I've been an arcane wonders ambassador in the last several years, this system has been temporarily unavailable. They said that they intended to bring it back once the new website was put up, that took a really long time and now they have had the website up for months and they still haven't brought the ambassador rewards system back. To be honest I don't think they are EVER going to bring it back, even if they think that they will eventually.

The fact is that there has been a mass exodus of players leaving this community over time, and that has drastically shrunken the online community to the point where it's practically a ghost town, arcane wonders has mishandled their marketing and become less engaged with the playerbase as it has gotten smaller and less active and they have become swamped with work that they have now been behind on for at least all year. While some places have managed to form lasting active mage wars communities, I suspect that they are not typical, and that there was a window of opportunity to form such communities at some point in the past and that said window has now passed.

I love mage wars, it is my favorite game ever. The fact that the online community has shrunken so much that I can't really play it as a hobby anymore makes me feel really horrible. I've put so much of myself into this game franchise and this community and for what? I'm going to probably have a mage wars shaped hole in my heart for the rest of my life. I feel like I wasted a bunch of money on mage wars products that I have never and will never be able to use outside of conventions, and I honestly feel like Arcane Wonders has dropped the ball with this game franchise. A part of me is strongly tempted to demand a refund, if not for all of the mage wars products that I have wasted my money on then at least a refund for the time I spent promoting their product which should have gotten me credit in their online store like they had promised. I'm trying really hard not to get angry and depressed about this.

A part of me wishes that I were the person in charge of arcane wonders, because that way I would be able to sell the mage wars franchise to a company that is better equipped to handle it, that way I would actually be able to keep playing the game as a hobby and not just at conventions or the increasingly rare occasion where there is someone to play against online. I urge Arcane Wonders to find another company which they can entrust to carry on the mage wars franchise in their place, a company that is better equipped to handle the task, which can bring out its full potential and make it really shine. And I urge them to start looking for such a company NOW while they are still afloat and still have time to look through all their options, before the playerbase shrinks any more than it already has.

To be honest I'm not confident that they are even actually paying any attention to this thread. I sent them a message through their online form requesting that they make a priority of looking at it, but I'm not sure if they got it. I hope they respond soon, even  it's just to say something like "we understand your concerns and we still care about our customers and we will post a more comprehensive response later". I think I'm also going to message them on facebook, summarizing the main points here with a link to the thread.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: RomeoXero on November 30, 2017, 09:26:53 PM
Sailor jeez dude! You know Sharkey is active military right? He's not even in the country right now. And refunds dude? For real? I can buy a toaster and then return it cuz i dont make any toast with it. I get where you're coming from but you gotta calm down a bit man. Its gonna be alright.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on November 30, 2017, 09:52:46 PM
Sailor jeez dude! You know Sharkey is active military right? He's not even in the country right now. And refunds dude? For real? I can buy a toaster and then return it cuz i dont make any toast with it. I get where you're coming from but you gotta calm down a bit man. Its gonna be alright.

Sorry for feeling too strongly about this, I guess? I don't think I overstated a single thing in my post. Everything I said in it is entirely accurate as far as I know. I know that sharkbait is currently out of state. Forgot that he is on active military duty right now. Has he been on active military duty for about the past couple of years though? I didn't think he was. I'm not saying that it's his fault that he isn't able to help with this, just that he isn't able to help with this and he shouldn't say he's going to do something if he's not actually going to do it. He's been saying that he would get around to this for about a couple of years now I think, and he never did. This isn't a matter of me being simply impatient, this is me giving up on things actually happening and being kind of fed up that he kept saying he was going to when he clearly isn't going to. If I sincerely believed earlier that a offline mage wars playgroup in an FLGS in my area was probably never going to happen, as I believe now, then I would not have spent so much money on mage wars products and perhaps not any money at all. Sharkbait telling me that he'll help build the community here eventually made me think that it was actually going to happen eventually, so I continued buying mage wars products.

And why exactly do you think that wishing I could get a refund is an overreaction? I honestly think that Arcane Wonders has dropped the ball on this game franchise and their mishandling of things in particular have made all of my mage wars purchases to be entirely worthless outside of cons. And I invested a lot of money on my mage wars collection and I've invested a lot of time and emotional energy into this community. I think I have every right to be upset about this, and I don't think I'm overreacting. The only reasons I'm not requesting a refund yet are 1. I think it's rather unlikely they'll be able to pay me back for it because they're such a small company and  2. I'm hoping they'll sell the franchise to another company that can handle it better, in which case I might actually be able to play it with people offline outside of cons. Although that is likely to be wishful thinking on my part.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Parliament on November 30, 2017, 10:13:57 PM
I hope Mage Wars keeps being supported. I prefer Arena but like the Academy sets as well. From what I’ve heard quite a bit has been designed that is being playtested that has not been released yet. I remember listening to Colby Dauch speaking at a convention about Summoner Wars when it first came out and there were maybe 6 Summoners. He talked about how he had designed 16 different factions and there would eventually be second Summoners. It took time but eventually Summoner Wars released 16 different factions with reinforcements and second Summoners for each. I don’t think Summoner Wars has a huge community, even though it’s a popular game. At the time I heard Colby talk about that I wondered if his game was going to get to release all that content. My hope is that Mage Wars eventually releases everything that’s in the pipeline now and more. Here’s hoping the game continues to grow and expand.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: RomeoXero on November 30, 2017, 10:25:23 PM
Welp i tried. Im outa this doom and gloom thread. Lol ima go be happy about something. Lol seriously tho, its a game. An awesome one but a slow growing one. Its my favorite game by far and that's a fact so ill continue to do whatever i can to help it grow where i can and i cant do any better than that. None of us can.
Heres to hoping you get what you want and everyone is pleased again. But i for one think its going just fine.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: TonyGullotti on November 30, 2017, 10:26:03 PM
Well this thread has certainly been a doozy! I’m going to start off with a few quick facts, so everyone can see things from a bit different perspective:

1. More Mage Wars branded product has released from Nov 2016 to Nov 2017 than ANY previous year.
2. Arcane Wonders as a company is 3 official employees (soon to announce a 4th)
3. There are absolutely no plans to sell the Mage Wars license
4. Here is the convention schedule we’ve done the past few months:

Essen Spiele (Germany): October 26th - 29th
Unrivaled Tournament Finale (Las Vegas): October 27th - 29th
Southern Hobby Retail Expo (Tennessee): November 5th - 7th
BGG Con (Texas): November 15th - 19th
PAX Unplugged (Pennsylvania): November 17th - 19th
Dice Tower Cruise (Florida): December 2nd - 7th

To put things bluntly, I've personally been averaging about a week in-office between each show, so there hasn't been a lot of time to work on side-projects. The focus has been getting product made, making sure we're advertising games & expansions as they launch, and then moving onto the next game in the lineup.

The Dice Tower Cruise is the last show of 2017, and I will be in-office until the New York Toy Fair in February, and GAMA Trade Show in March. During the next few months I plan on getting things up-to-speed and moving forward with plans for 2018.


CONCERNING THE AMBASSADOR PROGRAM
This year we suspended the ambassador program while we updated the website, and have taken this opportunity to set up the framework to improve the program to better support our active ambassadors moving forward. During this time period, however, we have continued supporting our ambassador events; recent examples are the recent MACE event, and the events being hosted in the UK.

The new program will support ambassadors of Arcane Wonders products that are going out into their community or hosting events at conventions. We will have more information after the convention season is over, and we are in the offices, updates coming by the end of January.


CONCERNING THE SPELLBOOK BUILDER / APP
We’ve begun conversation with Grga and it is our current plan to use the SpellbookBuilder.com fan-supported platform moving forward. The goal is to provide all the image assets for all future sets to Grga for implementation. We will not be updating the other spellbook builder that has been hosted, it has already been removed from our current website. There has been lapse in communication here, that I apologize for, and I'll be re-initiating contact and making sure that Grga gets everything that is needed.

Unfortunately, the App has always been a major issue for us (outside the earliest parts of its implementation). We have learned a lot about how we are not an app company, we are a board game publishing company. The Mage Wars app will be removed from iOs and Android app stores in January, if not sooner.


CONCERNING UPCOMING SETS, MARKETING, ETC.
We have four (4) new Mage Wars Academy mage expansions planned for release in 2018. I'm not going to share what they are, or really anything else... but as soon as I have manufacturing confirmation, I'll be sharing a full-release schedule for 2018 (with dates for each upcoming product).

I don't have a ton more to share here, but I wanted to touch on a couple of items:

1. We approached the Arcane Duels team to do the previews and spoilers for Forcemaster and Warlord Academy expansions --we feel they did a tremendous job, and current plans are to have them do the previews and spoilers for the 2018 Academy releases (assuming they're up for it again).

2. We have a lot of passion for Mage Wars. It it the product line that got Arcane Wonders started as a board game publisher, and it will always have a special status for us. There are big plans and changes in the works for the future and we'll be having a lot more discussion about Mage Wars in 2018.

Now, I've got to pack for the Dice Tower Cruise because I fly out tomorrow! I'll keep an eye on here tomorrow, but after that, it's unlikely I'll be able to respond until I return on the 11th.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on November 30, 2017, 10:35:29 PM
Thanks for the Informations Tony

4 new Academy Mage is nice, but no new Arena Set in 2018?

Sailer i see it is very close to you, but i would never suggest it to sell mage wars to any other company or ask for a refund.
I have too much respect for the product of the idea of mage wars, and what I experienced with it.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: RomeoXero on November 30, 2017, 10:37:22 PM
Well now that Tony is here, are we to not expect another arena mage set next year?
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: zot on November 30, 2017, 10:38:38 PM
+50
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on December 01, 2017, 02:44:11 AM
Well now that Tony is here, are we to not expect another arena mage set next year?

I think the chances are close to zero. Personally I have some doubts that we will see another one...
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on December 01, 2017, 03:15:19 AM
Im sure her on the forum at least 90% like Arena more as Academy...
As I've Imalready written that I understand that they work more on academy but that's not good news. At least you can now adjust to it.
I think they should think about it and publish a Lost Grimoire 2.0 2018 and every year after that (maybe to Christmas).
No new ore Terrans, Conuratins, spells designed for Arena next year...

We as arena players, buy two Academy extension to have a full set, at least I'll do it that way. For that reason alone, the sales figures are better.
We arena players support a product with which we use the cards but we do not play in the real sense and thus prevent / delay the publication of arena sets.
As paladin vs sirens and Lost Grimoire followed each other so quickly i thought now it starts with releases for aena, (i love both) now in after it would be better to wait a few months with the release of Lost Grimoire.
 I really thought this year the frost spells would come out now it looks like there's nothing for arena next year for us.


I like the Academy Cards... alot but umm,....

How about a poll?

What do you prefer?

A: another Academy Mage
or
B: Lost Grimoire 2.0
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: steack on December 01, 2017, 04:44:28 AM
A other extension for academy.  But  with  the  same mage  card for arena inside.

 :P


Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on December 01, 2017, 04:59:19 AM
I understand what you want to say ...
But then I would like to see a "arena razortusk" with charge and some Conjurations in the next academy set.
The poor (academy) pig has no chance against a timber wolf.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on December 01, 2017, 07:08:15 AM
no arena in 2018... bad news... but no surprise...
(I'm not even sure I'll buy the next academy sets: it's very complicate and expensive to get them in switzerland, for a few secondary cards)

the good news is AW want to keep the licence: If there is a next arena set, it will be the same high quality as the others!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Zuberi on December 01, 2017, 09:51:01 AM
Keep in mind that expansions for Academy also double as expansions for Arena. That's why they're taking a bit of focus, because they're a two-for-one deal. It's not really fair to say we're getting no new Arena expansions, when each Academy expansion has to be tested and viable in both formats. These cards are meant for Arena play.

I understand the complaints that this two-for-one deal limits what we can get, but these design constraints actually encourage creativity as well. How do you make conjurations, push/teleport/charge, and a whole host of other things work in a one zone environment? We don't just ignore these questions cause they're meant for a larger Arena, we actively engage with them and see what we can come up with. I can't promise any of them will actually ever see the light of day in an Academy set, they certainly have a lot of challenges to them, but just cause they're not an obvious fit doesn't mean we aren't looking at them. I mean, just look at the Forcemaster. How do you make an Academy version of a mage who focuses on solo fighting and pushing people around? That was a tough nut to crack, but I think we did a pretty good job and got some really amazing things that nobody saw coming. Druid relies on conjurations and Siren relies on Terrain. If we ever want an Academy version of those mages, don't you think we'll be looking at those?

What makes Karadox think that Frost can't debut in an Academy set? Or other whole new terms/mechanics?

And then there's a point to be made that just because no new Arena only sets were announced, does NOT mean that none will be made. He also didn't announce any new Dice Tower Essential games, but do any of you doubt that's in the plans? All it means is that they're not ready to announce things yet. Arcane Wonders can be a bit slow about things, we all know this, but the cries about "the end is near" haven't come true in any of the years past. Like he said, this has actually been one of the most content filled years ever for Mage Wars, and people still think the lack of content this year must spell doom. Mage Wars just doesn't have a lot of releases per year. It just doesn't. Maybe it should, that can be debated, but there's nothing unusual about the release schedule going on.

But nothing about the announcement of four, FOUR, new Mage Wars sets in the next year should have you depressed about the state of the game. Jeeze.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on December 01, 2017, 10:26:39 AM
But nothing about the announcement of four, FOUR, new Mage Wars sets in the next year should have you depressed about the state of the game.

You're right it should not be like that, maybe i'll think differently about it when i saw the Sets.

For Forstspells we wait for Years now, ist the big Think, it shout be appearing in Arena where a Bear has FostResidenz, not like his Family in Academy.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on December 01, 2017, 10:29:55 AM
And to piggyback off of what Zuberi is saying academy cards are not to be overlooked or even be second Tier.  I will argue that they have made and will continue to change the meta of the game.  If you have not used or tried them out you are also missing out on more diverse builds.  No not every card will be cost effective for arena but that is also bc arena has been out longer than academy and it is catching up. 

Glad to hear from Tony and curious of more announcements about MW. 

The sky is not falling and it never was.  I hope players can be satisfied and keep supporting the game, because it is the best game out in the market even if it is not as popular as others. 

Again it starts with us the players and fans to keep supporting, promoting, and helping others learn the game.  Keep trying to establish a community in your local game stores and I hope it flourishes and you have some MW partners to play the game Sailor. 

as a playtester I can not comment on future development  but just know the new sets will not disappoint Karadox.  :D
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on December 01, 2017, 10:46:08 AM
And to piggyback off of what Zuberi is saying academy cards are not to be overlooked or even be second Tier.  I will argue that they have made and will continue to change the meta of the game.  If you have not used or tried them out you are also missing out on more diverse builds.  No not every card will be cost effective for arena but that is also bc arena has been out longer than academy and it is catching up. 

Glad to hear from Tony and curious of more announcements about MW. 

The sky is not falling and it never was.  I hope players can be satisfied and keep supporting the game, because it is the best game out in the market even if it is not as popular as others. 

Again it starts with us the players and fans to keep supporting, promoting, and helping others learn the game.  Keep trying to establish a community in your local game stores and I hope it flourishes and you have some MW partners to play the game Sailor. 

as a playtester I can not comment on future development  but just know the new sets will not disappoint Karadox.  :D
Then why has the online community become almost a ghost town? Why have the majority of regular mage wars players on octgn who used to be active in this community left? I already said that the release schedule for expansions is NOT the problem. I didn't say that the game has died already, and I didn't say that it's going to die. But the online community does seem to be gradually shrinking to the point where it is not feasible to play it online as a hobby, and if not for arcane duels the online community would likely shrink much faster. Usually the community is more active around the holidays, not less, right? Unlike now. Or am I just remembering wrong?

Maybe the game will make a comeback somehow, and we will end up with levels of activity and engagement in this community like we had in 2013. I don't think the forums or octgn have ever been as active since that year. Used to be that I could often find five or even ten or more people available for online games of Mage Wars at a time. Now it's a lot harder to find even one or two at a time. There's never more than two games of Mage Wars being played online at the same time any more, and usually it's not even that many. I expect that we are unlikely to have any team games online ever again unless we have an official arcane duels event for them.

Personally, I really hope that soon as Arcane wonders gets back from Dice Tower con, that they tell us exactly what they plan to do to deal with these issues. I would like very much to keep Mage Wars as my main gaming Hobby, but I am strongly considering switching to something else and making mage wars something I only play on very rare occasion when I actually have someone to play it against.

The fact that AW is not selling the license tells me that either they're succumbing to sunk cost fallacy, or that they have a plan for dealing with these issues, or that their dice tower essentials line has been successful enough that they don't mind what's been happening to the mage wars community. Maybe a smaller community of less frequent mage wars players is more manageable for them or something, I don't know.

I honestly don't know what they're thinking or what they're planning to do about these issues if anything. That information is kinda important for me to decide whether to get into a different game as my replacement main gaming hobby or not.

Now that I think about it since a lot of people will be going home for the holidays (I live in a University city), there might be some people left who might not have anything to do. I'll call my FLGS to ask them if they're open over the break.

Maybe I can do some demos.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Parliament on December 01, 2017, 01:50:35 PM
I’m glad to hear the info from Tony. 4 Academy sets is excellent! I use quite a lot of the Academy cards released so far in Arena, and I think the newer Academy sets seem to be designed with Arena in mind as well. I know the designers and playtesters have been busy with some really cool things for the game, and I look forward to them when they arrive. Until then I’ll continue to explore what’s in the game now, including a new build for me tonight that I will be using (A ranged Bloodwave build).
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on December 01, 2017, 02:30:03 PM
Hey sailor all my previous comments are not meant for entirely for you and mostly relating to the person who posted the thread.  I am not mad or angry, and my initial annoyment was not meant for you.   I PM you about this before and Sorry if my messages feel like a personal attack against your viewpoints. 

I feel for you Sailor and others who feel the same way about the community.  all I can say is you are in control of you and I nor AW can or should convince you to stay with the game.  I hate to see another player leave.   
The doom and gloom from your posts is sad to me and I personally wish you were happy.  I think you are a really fun Player to play against, the game we played together at origins was fun, and I thought you were a very good sportsman, respectful/courteous during our match, and it was an overall fun match.  I hope you stay on board but if don't that is fine too. 

you have the choice to continue to be part of the community and continue playing or not.   Other option take a break from it for a bit and come back, i will still be playing and many others.   MW is not everything and it should not take away joy from your life.   
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on December 01, 2017, 03:33:16 PM
Farkas, I apologize for what seems to be sour relations between the both of us. All I can say is that I appreciate your strong passion for this game, and I hope that you will continue to be involved in the game's development during the next few years to come.

Tony, I understand that you do not like me either; I apologize if I have offended you, all I wanted was to start a community discussion.

Nonetheless, I do think that Sailor brings up good points. People are right when they say that Academy cards can be used with Arena, but the idea is that Arena and Academy are different products; the lack of new sets for Arena is not solved simply because Academy has new cards.

If we are to use the excuse of having Academy cards in Arena, we might as well stop making expansions for Arena all together.                   
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on December 01, 2017, 04:20:33 PM
Hey Eric even if the posts got heated I'm not saying I don't like u as a person or value you or sailors opinions.  aSorry if that did not come across and i do respect your opinions.   Again It is alright to disagree, and it does not mean I don't like you or think you guys are wrong in having this discussion or having the feelings you have.  It's a free world and you guys can express what you want.   I can and appreciate the community and the ideas.   I enjoy a good debate and I have no personal ill will against you Eric and hope you can develop a community of MW in ur area. 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Boocheck on December 02, 2017, 06:06:56 AM
5 pages of dicsussion and no hate. Am i on a right internet?

This could happen only on MW forum. Thx for this guys, you are awesome.

And now for not to be off topic.

The Mage Wars app will be removed from iOs and Android app stores in January, if not sooner.

I hope that the app will still work. I used it for all of my matches and playtesting too. Just adjust a life and mana if the mage is not there (Siren/Paladin) and you are good to go. :)




Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on December 02, 2017, 11:31:17 AM
I hope that the app will still work. I used it for all of my matches and playtesting too. Just adjust a life and mana if the mage is not there (Siren/Paladin) and you are good to go. :)

If you've bought the app, then it should automatically stay in your Itunes library and should be available to download whenever you wish.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Beldin on December 03, 2017, 06:50:16 PM
5 pages of dicsussion and no hate. Am i on a right internet?

This could happen only on MW forum. Thx for this guys, you are awesome.


I hate you all equally.  ;) ;D 8)
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: DaveW on December 03, 2017, 07:41:36 PM
Then why has the online community become almost a ghost town?

Because threads like these kill our buzz? :)

Seriously though, this is an awesome game, and I love all of the connectivity that has been provided to us free of charge. It's nice to keep connected in whatever manner is possible.

As for me, when I see threads that interest me, or if I feel like I can be helpful, I put in my thoughts. Sometimes I start threads when I feel that I have something that is interesting, or a question that I need to ask, etc. Lately though, I agree, there seem to have been fewer of those threads waiting for me to catch up on when I get online... at least in those message areas that I frequent. It, however, isn't going to stop me from continuing to post comments or books, or to ask questions, and I'm not going to stop to complain about other people not putting up material... I figure I can post more myself instead, to try to get more activity on the board if I really crave it that much.

Why have the majority of regular mage wars players on octgn who used to be active in this community left?

... the online community does seem to be gradually shrinking to the point where it is not feasible to play it online as a hobby....

I don't know that anyone can do anything more than speculate. I suppose that there may be many reasons that people move away from online gaming in general. It may just be that some have migrated to playing in person. It also might be that they have had their lives become more involved, and can no longer devote so much time to online activity. Maybe folks have lost their access to the online community. I guess there could be others.

Maybe I can do some demos.

Awesome! My best wishes to you there... I hope you do get more local activity. I know it's a thankless "job" hanging around a game store for hours to try to interest people in checking out the game, but the potential up-side is well worth it. I know that you gave me an introduction to Academy out at Origins one time, and I really appreciated it. No one else sat me down and let me experience Academy. I bought some product directly because of that experience, and use it off and on now. There are others out that who will do the same.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: isel on December 18, 2017, 06:33:33 AM
in my town, i´m the only one trying to make a community, and it´s very hard because now people prefer playing quick games, and when they see that it´s english many of them are scared, when the traduced edition arrived, too many mistakes, another people see that all mages, in their opinión are unbalanced, because they see too many attack fire spells and a lack of plant creatures for druid. I dónt understand why don´t we get with each expansión, at least one new card for each mage, because you must wait 2 years or more to get a new thematic for your favourite game, in my last demostration, i playing vs druid, and i win my opponent because i killed his 12 plants/vine creatures, and several of them were imposible to move (root), this person said that he couldn´t understand why another mages have too many versátil creatures to choose and druid only a few for her thematic. For me this game it´s fantastic but its hard to enjoy a particular mage when you see all others get more cards whith each expansión, you can use those new cards, but you must pay more cost, at the end if you like to win you must play the favourite mage whit more cards and discard your favourite.

I hope this year whith the announcment of 4 new mages we´ll get the game more balanced, and new thematics for all mages.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on December 18, 2017, 06:38:02 AM
Druid is definitely one of the most powerful mages btw...
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: iNano78 on December 18, 2017, 08:36:55 AM
Also, Druid can efficiently use any of the Nature creatures/spells (I find Cervere is particularly effective, as are Thunderrift Falcons, and the dozens of Enchantments), along with all the level 1 water spells. Don't forget about Tanglevine, which can be cast through Vine Tree anywhere you have a vine marker. And rooted doesn't prevent Teleportation, including the very efficient Lesser Teleport. And speaking of Druid spells in other expansions, have you seen Swamp (PvS), Tangleroot (Academy core), Waterfall Cloak (LG1?), etc?

A fire-based Warlock is pretty much a Druid's only bad matchup, and even then it isn't an impossible situation for a good Druid player. (Personally I find Forcemaster vs Wizard or Necromancer to be a more difficult challenge than Druid vs Warlock, and Forcemaster is one of my best mages).
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: isel on December 19, 2017, 06:35:40 AM
Also, Druid can efficiently use any of the Nature creatures/spells (I find Cervere is particularly effective, as are Thunderrift Falcons, and the dozens of Enchantments), along with all the level 1 water spells. Don't forget about Tanglevine, which can be cast through Vine Tree anywhere you have a vine marker. And rooted doesn't prevent Teleportation, including the very efficient Lesser Teleport. And speaking of Druid spells in other expansions, have you seen Swamp (PvS), Tangleroot (Academy core), Waterfall Cloak (LG1?), etc?

A fire-based Warlock is pretty much a Druid's only bad matchup, and even then it isn't an impossible situation for a good Druid player. (Personally I find Forcemaster vs Wizard or Necromancer to be a more difficult challenge than Druid vs Warlock, and Forcemaster is one of my best mages).

i know that druid is very good, only trying to say that she has few plant creatures, a mage is funnier when he or she has more variety, i prefer only play plant or vine creatures because i don´t see a grizzly or dragon in a druid spell book, i hope soon we get more plants and a very good sustitutive or targorath .
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on December 19, 2017, 10:24:05 AM
Ah, your issue is theme rather than mechanics. I'll duck out then - I'll happily put demons, zombies and angels in a druid if it does what I want...
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: RomeoXero on December 19, 2017, 11:05:22 AM
Im kind of in the same mindset there. This game differs from others in just how customizable the books can become. Every mage can use 90 percent of the spells available without needing to add specific conditioners to play them, like the colors of mana from MtG. Also theme decks don't do the same kind of thing they do in MtG, where if one plays just soldiers or warriors or elves or what have you, one gains many synergy bonuses simply by virtue of having them together. Plants, clerics, angels etc don't carry the same synergy bonuses in mage wars. At least not directly. They usually require extra set up wirh additional cards in MWs play style, cards like armory, royal armorer, tooth and nail, or badger frenzy.
Because of this fact pretty much every set contains spells for every mage. In fact most MW expansions make a point of printing cards that help DEFEAT the new mechanics they bring out to maintain balance, cards mind shield, arcane ward, siphon energy, etc.
So in MW you're welcome to make a book with just plants in it so you can keep to your theme, but because my druid might have fireballs or a flaming hellion in it for utility, you may not be optimally prepared for what you might see.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Beldin on December 19, 2017, 07:03:49 PM
Im kind of in the same mindset there. This game differs from others in just how customizable the books can become. Every mage can use 90 percent of the spells available without needing to add specific conditioners to play them, like the colors of mana from MtG. Also theme decks don't do the same kind of thing they do in MtG, where if one plays just soldiers or warriors or elves or what have you, one gains many synergy bonuses simply by virtue of having them together. Plants, clerics, angels etc don't carry the same synergy bonuses in mage wars. At least not directly. They usually require extra set up wirh additional cards in MWs play style, cards like armory, royal armorer, tooth and nail, or badger frenzy.
Because of this fact pretty much every set contains spells for every mage. In fact most MW expansions make a point of printing cards that help DEFEAT the new mechanics they bring out to maintain balance, cards mind shield, arcane ward, siphon energy, etc.
So in MW you're welcome to make a book with just plants in it so you can keep to your theme, but because my druid might have fireballs or a flaming hellion in it for utility, you may not be optimally prepared for what you might see.

Again this comes down to the question of SBP vs effect. I happily put 1-2 Heal in every book I play. In Dark books I pay triple for them, however a spike 8 dice of healing can win a match, or at the very least keep it going long enough that you can creatively win.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: RomeoXero on December 19, 2017, 09:55:37 PM
thats exactly what im saying. theres no need to add white mana or a specific card or crystal or mcguffin to the book to make it work. stick the heal in there, pay the 6 SP and your done, enjoy your 8 dice of healing whenever you want it! Its what makes this game so awesome, stick adramalech in that wizard book! Throw titanodon in a druid book! pet that unicorn and enjoy the crap outa that extra life and armor and dice. Thematically it makes perfect sense, this is a world where raw magic literally solves world problems. i imagine every mage is colored a bit dfferently as far as the magic they like to work goes. play around and see what works, sometimes its worth it just for the Ha ha's. Hell , i played Resuresction in one of my Druids and it was worth every one of the 8SP.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Coshade on December 20, 2017, 01:22:48 PM
thats exactly what im saying. theres no need to add white mana or a specific card or crystal or mcguffin to the book to make it work. stick the heal in there, pay the 6 SP and your done, enjoy your 8 dice of healing whenever you want it! Its what makes this game so awesome, stick adramalech in that wizard book! Throw titanodon in a druid book! pet that unicorn and enjoy the crap outa that extra life and armor and dice. Thematically it makes perfect sense, this is a world where raw magic literally solves world problems. i imagine every mage is colored a bit dfferently as far as the magic they like to work goes. play around and see what works, sometimes its worth it just for the Ha ha's. Hell , i played Resuresction in one of my Druids and it was worth every one of the 8SP.

This is a big reason I love MW. Thanks for pointing this out Romeo <3
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on December 20, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
I am pretty sure druid is one of the four academy mages to be published in 2018.
I hope i really hope the creatures have famme + and water immunity, root and uproot.
It is not difficult to understand that plants burn more easily.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: abyssalstalker on December 20, 2017, 02:06:49 PM
I am pretty sure druid is one of the four academy mages to be published in 2018.
I hope i really hope the creatures have famme + and water immunity, root and uproot.
It is not difficult to understand that plants burn more easily.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Druid, Necro, Paladin and Siren are the 4 mages. Bringing all arena mages to academy.

That being said, I'm hoping they somehow incorporate conjurations in there for Arena. Some of my favorite plants / vines for the druid are the conjurations. I would really like to see more.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on December 20, 2017, 02:28:52 PM
I think you are right about the druid and necro but i'm sure we will see at last one whole new Mage.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: isel on December 28, 2017, 03:30:35 AM
When we´ll see news about the new 4 mages? date of reléase?
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Beldin on December 29, 2017, 02:43:48 AM
When we´ll see news about the new 4 mages? date of reléase?

At this point nothing can be confirmed or denied past what has been officially announced by AW. Anything other than this is pure speculation, as soon as something official transpires then y'all will be the first to know.  :)
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: fas723 on January 06, 2018, 12:56:14 PM
Hello (again) everyone!
Long time since I posted here too. I just want to add my 2 cents to this discussion.

I have been Ambassador in Sweden since the program started. At first it was quite ok. I had several matched face to face each week. Tom Vassel had the game at his top 10 games of all times. And people felt an urge to try it out.

But when time went by things started to slow down. People at conventions were not as interested anymore. Less buzz around the game. And the forum got less and less attention, and became a...ghost town. Today I haven't played a game for over a year, even if I really would like to. But I'm still looking at all videos from Arcane Duels (Awesome guys!) to keep up with the meta and news of my favorite game.

So why has it turned out this way? Here are a few bullets I'm thinking of:

- The game is to long
This I think scare new players off. It looks and feels like a 45 min to 1h game. At least that is what people expect it to be based on their inner comparison with MtG. Now an average game is more like 2h, and that is way to long for this format. At least to attract a larger player pool. Same thing with Academy in fact. It is to long for what it gives. And to be honest MtG does this format much better, why Arena is the way to go for Mage Wars.

- Armor issue
This bullet is very connected to the first one. In my mind armor and defense are two functions that prolong the game in a less desired way. Thematic it is great. But it is frequently seen that both mages and creatures stack a lot of armor which basically neglects 1/3 of all die rolls. This isn't very inspiring for an opponent. On top this is armor stacking very efficient and a good strategy as well. I would say most Armor spells should have been much more expensive.

- Destructive spells.
Same thinking as with the Armor issue. Every time you design a card that makes something destructive, and removes something from your opponent, you should think twice before releasing it or determine a cost for it because it will only prolong the game in an unfun manner. Spells like: Dispel, Siphone, Mana worm, Enfeeble, etc. These cards should also had been much more expensive.

- Effect issue
There are too many effects! For new people this is a jungle. In one game I tried to explain the difference of Rot and Bleed. They are basically the same, so why make a new version of it? All these tiny rules will act as a huge barrier for new player to get into the game.

- Ability issue
Wow, look at all these cool creature and conjurations abilities! Well, for new players this can be overwhelming. When each creature has its unique ability and none are just vanilla. Sometimes I play with the thought that what if most creatures were standard creatures and abilities came from the Conjurations, Enchantment and Mages?

- Card pool count
In revers to several others in here I think the card pool is too large. That is at least the impression I get talking to "mugglers". There is no life cycle of cards. The pool just grow and grow and grow. It is even hard for me to keep track of all cards. Maybe a better format how to use the cards is needed?

- Critical player count
I hope this isn't too late. But one big reason the game doesn't take off more, at least not in my area, is that a game needs a certain player count to grow from. MW had the chance when it was released but never really came up to that critical level when the crowd could bring in new players by itself. Now head hunting for new players are down to just a few dedicated persons globally, which is not enough. I bet one reason AW don't release new content as often for Arena is that for each release the sells figures has gone down down down.


I'm not too concerned about the release schedule. Actually I think it is just fine. What is missing is a clear well communicated plan for it though. Like: "Every year there will be one Arena release in April and one Academy release in November". Here AW must improve.
I guess it all boils down to what type of game and community we would like to have. Are we and AW looking for a prospering community I think the game needs a remake of some sort. Otherwise it will be you guys who are currently playing the game who will keep doing it, no one else unfortunately.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 06, 2018, 01:49:32 PM
That's one of the reasons I like about arena, every creature has what it takes to imagine that it really would have made all its intrinsic when one thinks of these creatures. This is also something that bothers me because of the academy cards.

This is one of the bonus points compared to MTG because every creature is more or less the same
The names are interchangeable. Whether vampire or meerkolk is on the card, it does not matter, a 2/2 creature.

But so different are the opinions...

I also think that AW should make a plan when we can anticipate next products.
If their heart is in Mage Wars, AW should find ways to push the game.

But right now it's going backwards "Pegasus Spiele" has stopped translating last year.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: fas723 on January 07, 2018, 05:06:32 AM
Translating in my opinion isn't very productive. Why spend company resources and time to reinvent the wheel? No, it is better to use this time to develop new and better content for the game. I don't see why Germans, French or any other nationality/language should have less intelligent people compared to any smaller country and not be able to play the English versions? The game was made in English and will be developed in English. Same thing when a game is made in German, why translate? Deal with it, play the original, and let the resources go in the right direction. I have several games in my collections in German, French, Italian, Dutch and English. None in Swedish, and I do fine!

(As a side note. The reason most American publishers has pulled out from fairs like Essen is because people are lazy and can't tolerate games native language. Not even when there are no language dependency within the game, just the rulebook. American publishers instead relied on channel partners to translate their games. And see how well that did for MW for example.)

One more bullet I forgot to mention in my last post.
The introduction of Academy was really poor in my view. Marketing and production quality were ok, but the choice of mages were horrible. I can't understand how a mana-canceling wizard could end up as one of the basic mages in the core box? Why put in a "super advanced" mage whose only purpose is to deny the opponent to do "anything"? When I was demoing this the first year at one of Sweden’s larges conventions I got the same comment each time: "The beastmaster was cool, but the Wizard just made the game boring". Note, these were the only two mages available by then. Sure there are several to choose from today, but the train has already left...
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 07, 2018, 05:42:17 AM
I think you miss the point.

I have no problem with English cards, but there are younger players or people who just do not understand english well enough!

In some countries it is more normal than in others without translations, television, movies, books and everything else.
I've lived in a russian country for some time and 80% of the population speak no English.

It's hard enough to teach the game to new players.

If it were up to you, there would not be any translations, not even for books? :-)

And on the other hand AW did not have much to do with the translation, pegasus games was responsible for that.
In my opinion it would be better there would be more translations no less it just scares some people off.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 07, 2018, 07:38:28 AM
Translation services are not that expensive and Arcane Wonders could always use automatic translation services if they are willing to accept some oddities (Hydro would probably translate to 水力発電 in Japanses, and that took me five seconds to find on Google).
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 07, 2018, 09:22:44 AM

- Effect issue
There are too many effects! For new people this is a jungle. In one game I tried to explain the difference of Rot and Bleed. They are basically the same, so why make a new version of it? All these tiny rules will act as a huge barrier for new player to get into the game.

I +++ this one!
I like the compexity, but never understood why not have a "critical wound" for all burn, bleed, etc., and a "unconscious" for all stun, daze, sleep, etc.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 07, 2018, 09:28:10 AM
I don't see why Germans, French or any other nationality/language should have less intelligent people compared to any smaller country and not be able to play the English versions?

It's a cultural thing.
English is very used in Sweden... in Germany and in France we learn a little english, spanish or italian, at school, but we often prefer to speak, to hear, to read, to play in our own language.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: fas723 on January 07, 2018, 09:29:58 AM
I think you miss the point.

I have no problem with English cards, but there are younger players or people who just do not understand english well enough!

In some countries it is more normal than in others without translations, television, movies, books and everything else.
I've lived in a russian country for some time and 80% of the population speak no English.

It's hard enough to teach the game to new players.

If it were up to you, there would not be any translations, not even for books? :-)

And on the other hand AW did not have much to do with the translation, pegasus games was responsible for that.
In my opinion it would be better there would be more translations no less it just scares some people off.

There were no games in Swedish when I was young either... I had to learn in order to play.
If it were up to me I would say that all games should be made in/translated to English only. Then it wouldn't be a problem. This applies even for books, if you like.
(I don't think I own a Swedish book, and I haven't read one since the end of high school. At the university everything is in English, what else should it be?)

Even if AW didn't do the translation themselves partners had to be found and maintained. Contracts had to be made and intellectual properties carefully exchange. These things takes time. More time and resources then most people realize (even the involved parties). On top of this the translating side now have an extra expense they need to cover. Someone has to pay for this, at the end the customer obviously. What I have seen the cost for an German copy isn't more expensive compared to a English version, which means we all pay for this cost collectively (I doubt the German publishers accept lower margins for their versions).
Anyhow, Pegasus realized it wasn't something to invest in any more at the same time as AW will, which prove my thesis some.
Sorry, I didn't want this discussion to end up in translation issue. Please comment me, but I won't reply to this segment any more.  :)

Translation services are not that expensive and Arcane Wonders could always use automatic translation services if they are willing to accept some oddities (Hydro would probably translate to 水力発電 in Japanses, and that took me five seconds to find on Google).

Yes! If any translation, this is the way to go.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 07, 2018, 10:11:18 AM
Back to the topic, do you think if there would be more translations there would be fewer or more players?

Pegasus Spiele 58050G - Mage Wars Academy, Priesterin EUR 10,80
https://www.amazon.de/Pegasus-Spiele-58050G-Academy-Priesterin/dp/B01K1HWYN2/ref=sr_1_3?s=toys&ie=UTF8&qid=1515341615&sr=1-3&keywords=mage+wars+academy

Arcane Wonders ARWX01PS - Mage Wars: The Priestess  EUR 18,63
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Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: grga.curkovic on January 07, 2018, 12:13:58 PM
Remember how Tony said that he will be re-initiating contact with me and making sure that I get everything that is needed? That was said on 1st December, how many of you think he contacted me since? ... That is the kind of neglect MW players are complaining about...
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: fas723 on January 07, 2018, 12:23:19 PM
Back to the topic, do you think if there would be more translations there would be fewer or more players?

I think if resources were put into developing, communication and events instead of translating it would build a better base for succeeding. Basically, people would like to play a good game instead of a mediocre translated one.

Remember how Tony said that he will be re-initiating contact with me and making sure that I get everything that is needed? That was said on 1st December, how many of you think he contacted me since? ... That is the kind of neglect MW players are complaining about...

That is just awful!  :( >:(
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on January 07, 2018, 02:07:18 PM
I don't see why Germans, French or any other nationality/language should have less intelligent people compared to any smaller country and not be able to play the English versions?

It's a cultural thing.
English is very used in Sweden... in Germany and in France we learn a little english, spanish or italian, at school, but we often prefer to speak, to hear, to read, to play in our own language.

France I agree with, but not Germany. I spent 6.5 years working for a German multinational, and was over at head office every other month. The company official language for all meetings beyond department level was English, all staff from the canteen, to support staff to the board spoke very fluent English, and I use to socialise after hours with quite a few people, and even had a relationship with a German girl for 18 months. The picture I built up (and they were very proud of) was that everyone spoke good English, and felt comfortable using it - I can't speak German beyond a few tourist basics, and menus btw.

I've had similar experiences on the German/Dutch border and in Berlin, but in both cases my contact has been more limited to 'tourist-facing' people. I've also travelled across former East-Germany, but had less social contact there - I'd imagine English is much less spoken there, except amongst the youngest generation perhaps. We did have one interesting discussion with a mortuary worker during a dissection we were witnessing, where neither his English nor our German covered specific organ names and biological processes, but since we all had A-Level or degree Biology, we could communicate longhand by describing organ functions!

Some years later, and purely by coincidence, by fiancee is British, but speaks fluent German (attended a German-Swiss school from 4-18), and 3 of her last 4 jobs have been explicitly German-speaking and liaising with companies in Germany, as well as doing translation work. She reports much the same - with the odd exception, most people she speaks to in a German company  actually enjoy speaking English, and try to steer conversations to English, rather than German.

Just to add a third datapoint (admittedly less robust). On numerous similar discussions on BoardGameGeek and Kickstarter a lot of German players have said they prefer to get English copies of games, rather than German. That is probably something of a self-selecting sample however, as I'm reading those comments  from people who are happy and able to post on English language sites and threads to start with, and it makes sense that their playgroups (both family and friends) would often be similar.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 08, 2018, 12:54:02 AM
I don't see why Germans, French or any other nationality/language should have less intelligent people compared to any smaller country and not be able to play the English versions?

It's a cultural thing.
English is very used in Sweden... in Germany and in France we learn a little english, spanish or italian, at school, but we often prefer to speak, to hear, to read, to play in our own language.

France I agree with, but not Germany. I spent 6.5 years working for a German multinational, and was over at head office every other month. The company official language for all meetings beyond department level was English, all staff from the canteen, to support staff to the board spoke very fluent English, and I use to socialise after hours with quite a few people, and even had a relationship with a German girl for 18 months. The picture I built up (and they were very proud of) was that everyone spoke good English, and felt comfortable using it - I can't speak German beyond a few tourist basics, and menus btw.

I've had similar experiences on the German/Dutch border and in Berlin, but in both cases my contact has been more limited to 'tourist-facing' people. I've also travelled across former East-Germany, but had less social contact there - I'd imagine English is much less spoken there, except amongst the youngest generation perhaps. We did have one interesting discussion with a mortuary worker during a dissection we were witnessing, where neither his English nor our German covered specific organ names and biological processes, but since we all had A-Level or degree Biology, we could communicate longhand by describing organ functions!

Some years later, and purely by coincidence, by fiancee is British, but speaks fluent German (attended a German-Swiss school from 4-18), and 3 of her last 4 jobs have been explicitly German-speaking and liaising with companies in Germany, as well as doing translation work. She reports much the same - with the odd exception, most people she speaks to in a German company  actually enjoy speaking English, and try to steer conversations to English, rather than German.

Just to add a third datapoint (admittedly less robust). On numerous similar discussions on BoardGameGeek and Kickstarter a lot of German players have said they prefer to get English copies of games, rather than German. That is probably something of a self-selecting sample however, as I'm reading those comments  from people who are happy and able to post on English language sites and threads to start with, and it makes sense that their playgroups (both family and friends) would often be similar.
I think it depends on the school training (international scientific doctors need more english than local bakers!).
I like that people speak different languages, which bring different visions of the world when we meet and learn to speak each other's. It worths some translation expenses!

I prefer to play with english cards to avoid the translation mistakes. I prefer to come on the english forum to speak with people that are close to AW.
But I'm clearly not as clear, as precise, in my reading and in my writing as if it was in french. And my children don't speak enough english (yet?), so they bought french and german cards, and we have to translate every "burn"-"enflammé"-"in brand" when playing...

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: jacksmack on January 08, 2018, 05:01:18 AM
- The game is to long
This I think scare new players off. It looks and feels like a 45 min to 1h game. At least that is what people expect it to be based on their inner comparison with MtG. Now an average game is more like 2h, and that is way to long for this format. At least to attract a larger player pool. Same thing with Academy in fact. It is to long for what it gives. And to be honest MtG does this format much better, why Arena is the way to go for Mage Wars.

I find that the long games are too long. Not the average or even fast games.
Usually (very) the long games are caused by a bad assessment of one of the players within the first 3 rounds.
Can my mage / book go longer than my opponents?

Another reason why games drag out is that its very difficult to 'attack' in this game because guard markers carry over from last round. In its essence it just means that my grizzly takes 2 attacks from his grizzly in the same round i choose to attack his grizzly once.
It took me many many many games before i learned this what you would think is a simple thing... how to open up for attacking.

Some times i wish that the arena somehow was excately 1 zone smaller, in the sense that the distance from starting zones would be 1 less without making the arena smaller. I believe this would make rushes more viable.

- Armor issue
This bullet is very connected to the first one. In my mind armor and defense are two functions that prolong the game in a less desired way. Thematic it is great. But it is frequently seen that both mages and creatures stack a lot of armor which basically neglects 1/3 of all die rolls. This isn't very inspiring for an opponent. On top this is armor stacking very efficient and a good strategy as well. I would say most Armor spells should have been much more expensive.

Armor issue is a disaster. This is probably the biggest flaw in this game. And apparently AW does not understand this which is a catastrophe.
Armor issue has always been there. Since release.

First catastrophe:
Wizard voltaric shield + armor + Passive regeneration.

Second catastrophe:
Druid treebond - or lifebond. Also you can add vinemarkers to this equation since it also slows the game down in the sense that rushing vs a druid is impossible.

And as if lifebond is not completely and insanly overpowered in itself they also added Barkskin.

Third catastrophe:
Veterans Belt. Congratulations... you have now broken Mage Wars.
If i express my self further regarding this card, i will probably be banned from the forums, so ill leave it at this.


- Destructive spells.
Same thinking as with the Armor issue. Every time you design a card that makes something destructive, and removes something from your opponent, you should think twice before releasing it or determine a cost for it because it will only prolong the game in an unfun manner. Spells like: Dispel, Siphone, Mana worm, Enfeeble, etc. These cards should also had been much more expensive.

I think making armor more expensive would fix this one, as it would also make the removal more expensive.
We got ward stones to help vs enchantments, and these actually work when played right. (Early on i thought they were unusable, but they can be great.)
Otherwise you are right.

- Effect issue
There are too many effects! For new people this is a jungle. In one game I tried to explain the difference of Rot and Bleed. They are basically the same, so why make a new version of it? All these tiny rules will act as a huge barrier for new player to get into the game.

I agree. And its not only markers. Hindered, slow, unmoveable, restrained.
oh... and just slam on its own...

- Ability issue
Wow, look at all these cool creature and conjurations abilities! Well, for new players this can be overwhelming. When each creature has its unique ability and none are just vanilla. Sometimes I play with the thought that what if most creatures were standard creatures and abilities came from the Conjurations, Enchantment and Mages?

I don't think that the creatures is the problem. They are learned pretty easy and because they are all cool i have not experienced the time it takes to be a bad investment.

Effects on the other hand....

Also.. learning the attack sequence is too complex in particular in relation to when to reveal what.

- Card pool count
In revers to several others in here I think the card pool is too large. That is at least the impression I get talking to "mugglers". There is no life cycle of cards. The pool just grow and grow and grow. It is even hard for me to keep track of all cards. Maybe a better format how to use the cards is needed?

I think the pool is okay to be honest. I also think its pretty few new spells that actually comes in expansions.
But ofc... over the years it adds up.

- Critical player count
I hope this isn't too late. But one big reason the game doesn't take off more, at least not in my area, is that a game needs a certain player count to grow from. MW had the chance when it was released but never really came up to that critical level when the crowd could bring in new players by itself. Now head hunting for new players are down to just a few dedicated persons globally, which is not enough. I bet one reason AW don't release new content as often for Arena is that for each release the sells figures has gone down down down.

Spot on.

I'm not too concerned about the release schedule. Actually I think it is just fine. What is missing is a clear well communicated plan for it though. Like: "Every year there will be one Arena release in April and one Academy release in November". Here AW must improve.
I guess it all boils down to what type of game and community we would like to have. Are we and AW looking for a prospering community I think the game needs a remake of some sort. Otherwise it will be you guys who are currently playing the game who will keep doing it, no one else unfortunately.

Spot on. 0 and or bad communication is so frustrating.

The introduction of Academy was really poor in my view. Marketing and production quality were ok, but the choice of mages were horrible. I can't understand how a mana-canceling wizard could end up as one of the basic mages in the core box? Why put in a "super advanced" mage whose only purpose is to deny the opponent to do "anything"? When I was demoing this the first year at one of Sweden’s larges conventions I got the same comment each time: "The beastmaster was cool, but the Wizard just made the game boring". Note, these were the only two mages available by then. Sure there are several to choose from today, but the train has already left...

So true. AW needs to look up the word 'anticlimax'.
I know that a small pool of players think controlling is fun. But i can assure you that many players will walk away with a very bad taste in the mouth after getting trolled for 3 or 4 hours by an experience undo wizard.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: jacksmack on January 08, 2018, 05:10:57 AM
oh... and catrastrophe 4:
Necromancer.... build in poison immunity.... GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: jacksmack on January 08, 2018, 05:46:25 AM
oh oh oh.... intercept.... Another reason why you cant kill a mage.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 08, 2018, 07:09:33 AM
I rarely have games that last more than an hour nowadays.  When I was down visiting silverclawgrizzly, we played three casual games in three hours, and we were testing out new spellbooks.  Even my Priestess has gotten to the point where the games do not last more than an hour, and you have to deal 80 points of damage to reliably kill her.

I agree about banning the Veterans Belt.  I think that changing the nature of dice results (changing critical damage from any source to normal damage) is far too powerful, especially for one spellpoint, and it is too complicated.  I think that it should just give the Mage Aegis 1, representing the survival instincts of a veteran warrior.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: fas723 on January 08, 2018, 07:43:52 AM
Regarding play time, it is most likely possible to trim it down to an hour or so. But this takes time to master and experience from the player. They should know thier book very well, and also what thier opponent book might contain. And for this to work, both player must have this knowlege...

@Jacksmack:
Thanks! Glad you also can see all this. Regarding the creature abilities you are probably right too. I just stated a couple of isssue that together makes the game hard for a new player to like it. I would guess if all other bullets were fixed the creature ability issue would instead turn into a good flavour in the game.


Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 08, 2018, 07:54:57 AM
oh oh oh.... intercept.... Another reason why you cant kill a mage.
I don't find this to be really the case.
Often times I don't want to work around the angel, I just want to kill it.
If it had 4 dmg already, a single focused strike with your paladin's 5 dice attack (you should have the sword and dawnbreaker's ring out at this point), is often a kill shot.
So many people focus on working around the interceptor, just kill it and your problem is solved in most games.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 08, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
Guardian Angels tend to be difficult to kill, even with unavoidable attacks, especially if the Priestess/Priest playing them can support them.  In the case of the Priestess, it is usually worth a Minor Heal to keep their Guardian Angel alive because she usually also gains one permanent life from the spell, especially if the Minor Heal is on a Mage Wand.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: jacksmack on January 08, 2018, 12:51:58 PM
oh oh oh.... intercept.... Another reason why you cant kill a mage.
I don't find this to be really the case.
Often times I don't want to work around the angel, I just want to kill it.
If it had 4 dmg already, a single focused strike with your paladin's 5 dice attack (you should have the sword and dawnbreaker's ring out at this point), is often a kill shot.
So many people focus on working around the interceptor, just kill it and your problem is solved in most games.

Perhaps a paladin  Can this with his re roll ability. Rest is nonsense.
No 1 else can kill it effectively.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 08, 2018, 02:57:48 PM
oh oh oh.... intercept.... Another reason why you cant kill a mage.
I don't find this to be really the case.
Often times I don't want to work around the angel, I just want to kill it.
If it had 4 dmg already, a single focused strike with your paladin's 5 dice attack (you should have the sword and dawnbreaker's ring out at this point), is often a kill shot.
So many people focus on working around the interceptor, just kill it and your problem is solved in most games.

Perhaps a paladin  Can this with his re roll ability. Rest is nonsense.
No 1 else can kill it effectively.
I can't agree here.
War Mages: Focused Strike with a buffed creature and you can kill an angel if you get a slightly above average roll. Obviously you want to do this when the angel is already damaged, but it is very doable is played right in my opinion. Paladin can also just use focused strike on himself and challenge on the angel to have a good shot at taking it out.
Holy Mages: This is a bit harder, but still not that hard. Priestess and Priestess can blast it (sure they can dodge, but if you then hit them with a buffed up allandel, it's not looking good for the angel). Holy Avenger Griffin also will do well as long as the dice are average.
Nature Mages: Tanglevine the angel and just murder it with a buffed up bear, eagle wings and falcon percision the bear, use tons of ranged attacks with johktari (the angel can't dodge them all). Pretty good counters here.
Dark mages: Necro's can just curse it and warlocks can use buffed up unavoidable attacks combined with creature hits to kill it fast. The lash and chant of rage also work wonders.
Forcemaster: Nothing to say as I don't play forcemaster
Siren: Nothing to say as I don't play siren.
Wizard: Make use out of your own guards and ranged attacks. Eventually you will win the battle.
Lots of good counters to angels in my honest opinion.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kelanen on January 10, 2018, 06:39:53 AM
Honestly, if the armour, and defences weren't there, it wouldn't be a game I was playing. It would just be another short aggressive game, of which their are tons. I like it BECAUSE it's a much longer game. At it's heart, MW is a miniatures skirmish game, not a board or card game - it's market (and game length) should be compared to Malifaux, Heroclix, Warmachine and 40k, not MtG, etc...

But whilst we're on the MtG comparison - the card pool is too small, not too big. It's currently around a full block in size (and a large number of those cards are essentially unusable outside of Academy). It does definitely need more cards, and more releases, but the card pool is not to big (I have to think it's the wrong game for anyone that thinks that - the whole living card game format is wrong for that person).

As noted, there are plenty of counters to everything, including armour and regeneration. But Arena was never designed to be a short game - Academy is that. Arena is designed to be a much longer game, from teh core set onwards.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 10, 2018, 07:00:37 AM
I prefere my MW games over 3 hours, when the first attack fails and we have to find something else...
After 4-6-8 hours building, it's a little frustrating when I win or loose in 1h30!

In my groupe we don't like long waiting games, so we don't have problems with armor (even with veteran's belt), but I understand it can be boring when the other player stacks armor and waits for you to have to go to work! 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 10, 2018, 07:14:17 AM
I really cannot image playing a three hour game anymore.  I have usually played 75% of my cards by 60 minutes and I have had plenty of games where both people emptied their books by 60 minutes.  At that point, it usually comes down to Creature superiority, especially since all of the Wands are long gone.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 10, 2018, 09:21:02 AM
I really cannot image playing a three hour game anymore.  I have usually played 75% of my cards by 60 minutes and I have had plenty of games where both people emptied their books by 60 minutes.  At that point, it usually comes down to Creature superiority, especially since all of the Wands are long gone.
I'm really curious about your local meta obsidian. Which sets do you use? Why can't you kill the enemy mage before they manage to amass so many creatures? And why do you need to summon so many of your own?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 10, 2018, 10:14:16 AM
I do not play that much right now, but in my old group with steelclawgrizzly, we would usually have 6-12 creatures in each discard before the end of the game (Beastmasters tended to lose more because of the number of small creatures, so it was not unknown for a Beastmaster to have 12 creatures in his discard while the Priestess or Priest would have only 6 creatures).  I regularly had games with steelclawgrizzly where we would run out of creatures to summon and we would be chasing each other around with what was left (two Steelclaw Grizzlies versus two Guardian Angels and two Knights of Westlock was not an unknown situation).  Depending on the iteration of our spellbooks, we could have stripped all of the enchantments and equipment off each Mage as well.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Jock McFistpunch on January 10, 2018, 05:53:43 PM
Personally, 3 hours is a bit of a long game for me.  90 would be perfect.  For me, the reason they take longer is analysis paralysis of having access to so many awesome things at once.  Do I want to equip a crazy demon hide mask or summon something that flies and has nasty teeth to terrify the other player?  BWAHAHA!

I know for when I taught a few friends to play Academy, the game took over 2 hours.  I don't know if anyone else has run into this, but they wouldn't attack each others' mages, they kept going after creatures instead.

I would love to see this game explode in a good way.  Out of curiosity, how has it changed over the years?  I had no idea it had been around so long, and I would much rather have quality or quantity when it comes to releases.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 10, 2018, 08:06:46 PM
I got into it with steelclawgrizzly back at the end of '12.  A local game store had botched my order and they refunded me the $200.  I purchased Mage Wars on a whim after steelclawgrizzly pointed it out, and we ended up playing 20 games over the next week.  We introduced it to our local gaming group and became the nexus of Mage Wars in the area (steelclawgrizzly is the nexus since I left to be with my fiancee). 

The same is faster than it was because of all of the cards that are available.  Combination mages are a possibility now (the warlock and warlord were originally quite weak) and it helped the quality of the game when they castrated the Wizard.  For about the first two years of our Mage Wars experience, we built our spellbooks to kill Earth Wizards first, which are now an extinct species, and everything else second.  With the extinction of the Earth Wizards, now you can build spellbooks without asking 'how can I kill two Wizard's Towers with Spellbound Hurl Boulders before they kill me?'
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Gogolski on January 12, 2018, 08:35:25 PM
...
- Armor issue
This bullet is very connected to the first one. In my mind armor and defense are two functions that prolong the game in a less desired way. Thematic it is great. But it is frequently seen that both mages and creatures stack a lot of armor which basically neglects 1/3 of all die rolls. This isn't very inspiring for an opponent. On top this is armor stacking very efficient and a good strategy as well. I would say most Armor spells should have been much more expensive.

Armor issue is a disaster. This is probably the biggest flaw in this game. And apparently AW does not understand this which is a catastrophe.
Armor issue has always been there. Since release.

First catastrophe:
Wizard voltaric shield + armor + Passive regeneration.

Second catastrophe:
Druid treebond - or lifebond. Also you can add vinemarkers to this equation since it also slows the game down in the sense that rushing vs a druid is impossible.

And as if lifebond is not completely and insanly overpowered in itself they also added Barkskin.

Third catastrophe:
Veterans Belt. Congratulations... you have now broken Mage Wars.
If i express my self further regarding this card, i will probably be banned from the forums, so ill leave it at this.
...
Add to the mana cost of armor the amount of armor the mage already has. (Or twice the amount if that's not expensive enough)
You could do the same for the veterans belt: each damage conversion has a cost. It's only one mana to activate it, but you must decide when an attack is declared before dice are rolled.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: isel on January 15, 2018, 05:00:06 AM
Well, it´s new year, i believe it´s time that developers make  news about the products for this year,
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 15, 2018, 05:45:55 AM
you're right isel, I'm afraid the first thing we'll hear about the new academy extension´s will be a picture on a merchant page on the internet, like last year.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 15, 2018, 10:20:45 AM
and news about the arena extension they prepare for next year!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: TonyGullotti on January 16, 2018, 12:02:26 PM
you're right isel, I'm afraid the first thing we'll hear about the new academy extension´s will be a picture on a merchant page on the internet, like last year.

Our policy at this time is that we don't announce a new product until the files have been sent to our manufacturer. That equates to approximately 3-4 months before the retail launch.

This is due to times in the past where we said "XYZ is coming in Spring" and then Spring comes and goes.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: iNano78 on January 16, 2018, 12:20:56 PM
you're right isel, I'm afraid the first thing we'll hear about the new academy extension´s will be a picture on a merchant page on the internet, like last year.

Our policy at this time is that we don't announce a new product until the files have been sent to our manufacturer. That equates to approximately 3-4 months before the retail launch.

This is due to times in the past where we said "XYZ is coming in Spring" and then Spring comes and goes.

So we can safely assume that nothing is coming in the next 3-4 months if we haven't heard anything?
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: isel on January 18, 2018, 01:46:46 AM
you're right isel, I'm afraid the first thing we'll hear about the new academy extension´s will be a picture on a merchant page on the internet, like last year.

Our policy at this time is that we don't announce a new product until the files have been sent to our manufacturer. That equates to approximately 3-4 months before the retail launch.

This is due to times in the past where we said "XYZ is coming in Spring" and then Spring comes and goes.


At least, would be nice to hear the names of the 4 next mages for academy that were announced for this year. I know that make a product is difficult, but it would be good for the game to hear some news although they were´nt inmediatly.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Erebus on January 22, 2018, 11:29:54 AM
Man it's weird to be back here. Glad to see some names I remember from a few years ago. I've been away from the forum hoping for some new Arena content to be released. Do we know at all what's coming up for Arena soon? :) 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 22, 2018, 11:58:21 AM
All we know is that this Year no arena set will be released.
Just 4 new Academy Mages. I believe that 2 of them will be a Necro and a Druid.

The last thing I heard about Arena Mages is that AW is working on a Barbarian who will bring Dinosaur to the arena.
In addition, there will be frost spells.
But this informations have been around for some time.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 22, 2018, 01:24:23 PM
In addition, there will be frost spells.

 :D :D :D
this has been around since the core set was edited!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 22, 2018, 01:59:36 PM
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1698407/thoughts-next-expansion

Aaron Brosman Posted Sat Dec 31, 2016

I'm almost 100% positive the next expansion will have Frost damage spells in it. It's something we originally meant to have back in Druid vs. Necromancer, but it ended up not fitting with the Mage we were making. However, unless something pretty drastic happens I'd expect Freeze/Frost Damage to be in the next set
.........................

It's more as 2 years now but it need to mean something, right? Or frost is just a running gag!
Hmm,  something pretty drastic happend? = Academy?

I think these are the 4 mages we will get for academy in 2018.

1 Druide
2 Necro It would make sense if he was next to dark school, also trained in Dsjer-Tet.
3 Mage 'Monk, Samurai,... In any case, an Eastern culture theme.
4 Mage Dark Elf, maybe Frostspells
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: iNano78 on January 22, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1698407/thoughts-next-expansion

Aaron Brosman Posted Sat Dec 31, 2016
...

That was only 1 year ago (plus a few days), Academy was already out, and then Aaron (aka Laddinfance) disappeared from Etheria never to return... so yes, something very drastic thing happened, but it wasn't Academy.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Biblofilter on January 22, 2018, 07:22:19 PM
It easy to forget..

I love Mage Wars  ;D

And im not the only one :)
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 23, 2018, 02:58:20 AM
Laddinfance = is a planewalker now!?

Joke aside, he was good for mage wars and is very missed.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Borg on January 23, 2018, 03:16:08 AM
If you read the "signs" correctly, MW seems to be on its way out imo.
No Arena expansion this year, meaning the same old books and same old mages to play.
MW suffers from not having enough variety and every mage using the same utility spells.
I quit playing roughly six months ago and haven't missed it for a second.
I hope I can feel the itch to play this game again some time but it looks bleak at this point.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 23, 2018, 04:17:15 AM
If you read the "signs" correctly, MW seems to be on its way out imo.
No Arena expansion this year, meaning the same old books and same old mages to play.
MW suffers from not having enough variety and every mage using the same utility spells.
I quit playing roughly six months ago and haven't missed it for a second.
I hope I can feel the itch to play this game again some time but it looks bleak at this point.
Did you miss the sudden large resurgence of the online OCTGN Mage Wars community in the past month or so? Mage Wars might not be as popular as it was when it first came out, but it's hardly "on its way out". And Academy sets are still Arena sets too you know, just without new mages. There are still plenty of new spells for you to try which impact the meta significantly.

If anything we are experiencing a high point for the game now, and the only reason some people think otherwise is because they live in areas where the game didn't quite catch on. It does seem to be hit or miss in terms of popularity in different areas. Doesn't mean it's losing popularity on the whole in general.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Karadox on January 23, 2018, 04:54:15 AM
Right, even if we do not get any new mages this year, new strategies will certainly be available for those in existence.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 23, 2018, 08:14:28 AM
I allways say that AW make us wait to long... and that we allways make each expension long till the next one arrives.
But last week my co-player told me he had no new fun ideas for books (we usuely play our books only once, buildig a new one for each game)... if he stops playing, it will have been really to long.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 23, 2018, 09:05:00 AM
How are you going to learn a book only playing it once?  Yes, I can understand dismantling a book that just does not work, but you really should keep and adapt functional books.  The core strategy of my Priestess has not changed in four years, I just change a few cards every time a new expansion comes out to adapt it to new threats.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 23, 2018, 12:43:12 PM
How are you going to learn a book only playing it once?  Yes, I can understand dismantling a book that just does not work, but you really should keep and adapt functional books.  The core strategy of my Priestess has not changed in four years, I just change a few cards every time a new expansion comes out to adapt it to new threats.

If you want to build and play it at best eficiency, you do well. I prefer to test new things, to see other cards, in other combos, and I don't have much time to play...
It's cool to think about new role an old mage could play, it can be efficient or less efficient, but we have fun triyng to surprise each other!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: farkas1 on January 23, 2018, 02:29:42 PM
I'm just going to chime in here and say that gamers come in all different varieties.  Some players will get bored after a few months of no new content others take longer.  That said I am and always will be a gamer who enjoys new content but does not need a steady stream of new stuff for me to enjoy the game. 

I will stress this again it's only been a few months since we have had academy forcemaster and academy Warlord release.  I think some players are very passionate but also sometimes impatient, which i can relate too at times.  But I do agree to some extent to build a fan base or promote a product you need better marketing and promotion. 

I do agree with others that no news or updates does look bad for the company and the brand of Mage wars. 
I do know they are winding down or finishing up a very busy convention season and as others noted the company is small.  I don't want to give them excuses or speak for them but I do believe it would be nice to hear the happenings and inner workings of what the future of Mage wars is.

Again I am all in and will continue to  support and promote the community.  I think it's a fun and a competitive system that I can keep coming back too.  I have literally playedvand tweeked my straywood build for over 40+ games.  I am not bored with it one bit.  We are having winter war here in Champaign IL this weekend.  We have a fairly good size circuit of players in nearby cities.  it just takes people getting out of there comfort zone to try it with some one new. 
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: exid on January 24, 2018, 12:44:15 AM
I'm just going to chime in here and say that gamers come in all different varieties.  Some players will get bored after a few months of no new content others take longer. 

Some players are bored after a few months, others after a year, my friend is bored after 1 year without any new arena (academy doesn't bring really new for an arena player) and seeing nothing coming for the next year, i'll be perhaps bored after 2 years... The longer AW waits, the less usefull the nextc arena expension will be.

Looking at the bright side, it brings life and discussions on this forum!
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Kaarin on January 24, 2018, 02:24:16 PM
I wonder how it would be if instead of big Arena expansions AW would do supplementary Arena expansions to two Academy expansions. Something between Conquest of Kumanjaro and Lost Grimoire focused on mages from previous two Academy expansions.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Jock McFistpunch on January 24, 2018, 05:16:16 PM
Supplements would be cool, like small chunks of cards like Netrunner does. Packs of 60 cards that are like $15.  IMO, unless it's Magic, Pokemon, or Yu-gi-oh, there isn't really a huge base for most card games.  I see Fantasy Flight ones around, but that's because they are located in the city where I live so there is a base for that due to geography. 

And I always step back and try to imagine a company with a game this complex that consists of 3 people, plus they are also publishing other games.  I don't know about you, but it takes me a long time just to build a book, never mind trying to create new designs while promoting the old ones. 

Wait, genius thought, we totally need to make a Mage Wars cartoon (Netflix would totally buy it), create a catchy J-Pop theme song, and come up with some cute mascot that can only say it's own name.  Once we get that going, the game will explode! :)
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: arxiducs on January 25, 2018, 05:03:59 AM
This is a great thread! with nice story twists and creative ideas.
I would like to share how I am taking this game in the last few years. Just to contribute with my point of view.

I started in 2012 and have regularly gone away and come back to the game. It is for me a nice way of enjoying the game while not burning it. To be honest, when I get too much into it I start to see "the matrix" and do not quiet like it because takes away the great thematic flavor.
When I became orphan of my initial MW community in Venezuela, I preached the word of MW in the new places where I lived since then (through Ambassador-like demos in gaming clubs in Spain and Kazakhstan) and there were always three to four persons who would buy the game and start playing it with me. It is only about engaging them and enjoying WITH them (coaching them and letting them win more often than not).  :D But I do not think that these small communities could get any bigger considering the competition of new game releases. I sincerely do not see much of a difference in this prospect if I would for example try to seduce them to engage in other LCGs that are not "the latest".
If I need some competitive MW, I immediately go to OCTGN to take off the rust and increase the learning curve yet again, playing against amazing strategists/tacticians that can be found there. This happens once a year, usually coinciding with Arcane Duels Open or other tourneys like it.

When I look at other (non-collectible) Card Games (i.e. LCGs) I observe that their life is very short (2-3 years). They tend to be seasonal too or just be swallowed by new releases. I saw how NetRunner community got crippled when Game of Thrones came in and later how GoT communities have almost disappeared when Legend of the five Rings took the spotlight. This happening with heavy support from the publishers and sometimes even killed by the very publishers (i.e. by issuing a second edition or publishing more LCGs than the gaming communities can absorb).

I take this game as a "niche" game. When I say "niche" I mean that it is kept alive more by the community rather than the publisher. With few persons that play it at any given time in a given place. When this game was in its prime after its release, a big community could count maximum 16-28 active players (please let me know if you knew bigger communities!).

In 2018 the situation is not looking any better in number of players, but what I enjoy is to have this online community and regular (yearly of biannually) meet ups in OCTGN.
These days I am also enjoying the Academy releases. Easier to find the time, simpler, but still MW in essence. I play it with my son and his friends; and recently in OCTGN, where there are some nice people always available when I need a more challenging foe.

My conclusion: as long as there is a meeting point for real life or virtual playing communities, this game will be enjoyable and alive. Thanks for AW for maintaining this forum and to all of you who are my virtual MW community!  :D
Excuse me if I disappear for (needed) periods of time. But my returns would not be possible if it wasn't for some of you, Alpha players, who upkeep the community during the "winters". You know who you are...

Mage Warriors, I salute you!

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Borg on January 25, 2018, 02:57:58 PM
Right, even if we do not get any new mages this year, new strategies will certainly be available for those in existence.
Academy expansions do not produce "strategy changing" cards imho, at best some "minor changes" cards.
The strategies used in MW are old and downtrodden. "New" decks are usually nothing more than slightly varied older decks.
For me personally the thrill of MW deckbuilding is gone. There's only so much you can do with an extremely limited card pool.
If I look at some random current MW spelbook post I can't feel anything but disappointment as it's still all the same cards that make up the books.
There are soooo many more deckbuilding options in Legacy Magic.
I have like 20 decks by now ready to play and they hardly share any cards, unlike MW where every book needs the same Incantations and Enchantments, not to mention Pillar of Righteous Flame.
Imho, MW is not in a healthy state.



@ Sailor : I'm afraid I didn't notice the resurgence on OCTGN as I only occasionally drop by here
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 25, 2018, 03:12:47 PM
Right, even if we do not get any new mages this year, new strategies will certainly be available for those in existence.
Academy expansions do not produce "strategy changing" cards imho, at best some "minor changes" cards.
The strategies used in MW are old and downtrodden. "New" decks are usually nothing more than slightly varied older decks.
For me personally the thrill of MW deckbuilding is gone. There's only so much you can do with an extremely limited card pool.
If I look at some random current MW spelbook post I can't feel anything but disappointment as it's still all the same cards that make up the books.
There are soooo many more deckbuilding options in Legacy Magic.
I have like 20 decks by now ready to play and they hardly share any cards, unlike MW where every book needs the same Incantations and Enchantments, not to mention Pillar of Righteous Flame.
Imho, MW is not in a healthy state.



@ Sailor : I'm afraid I didn't notice the resurgence on OCTGN as I only occasionally drop by here
I have to totally disagree here.
Ehren, Remove Curse, Mhegeden, Wychwood Ironvine, Leather Pants, almost all the Academy Forcemaster and Warlord cards. I think these are all game changing cards. :)
A single change in any of my paladin books takes hours to contemplate, deep thought goes into every single advantage/disadvantage that the new card will be bringing and the same for the old.
I have played 95% of my last 200 games with a paladin. And I have not once ever been bored in the slightest.
When I lose, I get motivated to get better and not make the same mistake that most likely lost me the game.
Just flat out discussing strategies and tactics with Sharkey, Puddn, Coshade, Grizz, Biblo, Keejchen, and others is a wonderful experience in itself.
If you think the meta is stale, that's ok. That's your opinion and you have every right to it. Just understand that I have mine. 8)
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 25, 2018, 06:14:45 PM
And Mage Wars is much cheaper than Legacy MtG.  I think that a new player would have to dump a maximum of $100 to build two competitive spellbooks in Mage Wars while they would have to dump a minimum of $2000 to build two competitive decks in Legacy MtG.
Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on January 29, 2018, 05:42:11 PM
I'm just going to chime in here and say that gamers come in all different varieties.  Some players will get bored after a few months of no new content others take longer.  That said I am and always will be a gamer who enjoys new content but does not need a steady stream of new stuff for me to enjoy the game. 

I do agree with others that no news or updates does look bad for the company and the brand of Mage wars. 
I do know they are winding down or finishing up a very busy convention season and as others noted the company is small.  I don't want to give them excuses or speak for them but I do believe it would be nice to hear the happenings and inner workings of what the future of Mage wars is.


Some gamers here play video games, where dev diaries are common; it helps give insight as to what the developers are planning in terms of content for their games as well as providing a link between the developers and the community. While the board gaming industry does not follow the same guidelines and the computer industry, a little bit of interaction helps create a bond between consumer and company. Laddinfance did a good job of keeping us interested in the Paladin Vs. Siren process with the card reveals, and I would love it if Arcane Wonders would try to keep a similar interest in between their products and their costumers.

No matter what the size of the company is, it is essential for AW to maintain its consumer base. Wizards of the Coast and Fantasy Flight Games are popular because they have a great variety of games at their disposal encompassing various themes, whereas Arcane Wonders has released a very good mage fighting game, with not much else on their roster; and if money is an obstacle, there have been great games out there that have been funded via Kickstarter, games that are created by companies with little to no reputation and are suddenly they are some of the most popular companies around. Mage Wars and Sheriff of Nottingham were great Arcane Wonder releases, but they cannot be the flagship of the entire company forever.

I like Mage Wars as much as anyone here on this forum, but Arcane Wonders really needs to 'step up its game'. Sheriff Of Nottingham and Royals are interesting enough to catch people's attention, but a game such as "Speechless" is just so similar to another popular game (charades), and there is therefore little market appeal for the product. The future of Arcane Wonders is not on Mage Wars, but whether or not it can release innovative games that feel fresh and innovative in today's board game market; at the same time however, discontinuing Mage Wars content means that Arcane Wonders will lose the majority of their player base.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 30, 2018, 11:45:19 AM
I'm just going to chime in here and say that gamers come in all different varieties.  Some players will get bored after a few months of no new content others take longer.  That said I am and always will be a gamer who enjoys new content but does not need a steady stream of new stuff for me to enjoy the game. 

I do agree with others that no news or updates does look bad for the company and the brand of Mage wars. 
I do know they are winding down or finishing up a very busy convention season and as others noted the company is small.  I don't want to give them excuses or speak for them but I do believe it would be nice to hear the happenings and inner workings of what the future of Mage wars is.


Some gamers here play video games, where dev diaries are common; it helps give insight as to what the developers are planning in terms of content for their games as well as providing a link between the developers and the community. While the board gaming industry does not follow the same guidelines and the computer industry, a little bit of interaction helps create a bond between consumer and company. Laddinfance did a good job of keeping us interested in the Paladin Vs. Siren process with the card reveals, and I would love it if Arcane Wonders would try to keep a similar interest in between their products and their costumers.

No matter what the size of the company is, it is essential for AW to maintain its consumer base. Wizards of the Coast and Fantasy Flight Games are popular because they have a great variety of games at their disposal encompassing various themes, whereas Arcane Wonders has released a very good mage fighting game, with not much else on their roster; and if money is an obstacle, there have been great games out there that have been funded via Kickstarter, games that are created by companies with little to no reputation and are suddenly they are some of the most popular companies around. Mage Wars and Sheriff of Nottingham were great Arcane Wonder releases, but they cannot be the flagship of the entire company forever.

I like Mage Wars as much as anyone here on this forum, but Arcane Wonders really needs to 'step up its game'. Sheriff Of Nottingham and Royals are interesting enough to catch people's attention, but a game such as "Speechless" is just so similar to another popular game (charades), and there is therefore little market appeal for the product. The future of Arcane Wonders is not on Mage Wars, but whether or not it can release innovative games that feel fresh and innovative in today's board game market; at the same time however, discontinuing Mage Wars content means that Arcane Wonders will lose the majority of their player base.
Who said anything about discontinuing Mage Wars product? There will still be more Arena sets in the future besides just the academy ones. We haven't lost the net majority of players. If anything a significant number of online players have returned in the past month or two. Right now the community feels the most active its been since 2013 if I recall correctly.

Don't get me wrong, it was a ghost town for a while before that though. The online community comes and goes, and the entire franchise is a hit or miss in terms of popularity depending on location. But the game is not in any danger of disappearing or almost disappearing.

If you're having trouble promoting the game as easily as it would have been when it first came out, it might be because of a combination of the game becoming more difficult for beginners to get into over time, the people who left because of the wizard shenanigans before his errata who might still have a sour taste in their mouths, and sheer bad luck with your location. It doesn't mean the game as a whole is still losing popularity, just that it has lost some previously.

And even if it is still losing popularity a little bit now, that isn't necessarily indicative of a long term trend. Maybe it just goes up and down every time they release an expansion? There are other possible explanations besides the whole franchise being in any kind of jeopardy.

Things are going well overall, but they could be going a lot better. I think the significant lack of communication from arcane wonders is not a sign of a larger problem, it IS the problem, and possibly the only significant problem they have.

I'm not going to tell you guys to give it a rest, since that wasn't helpful for getting me to stop worrying about this and it won't help you. What will help is having things explained clearly in private messages instead of large public arguments like this one.

If you guys still don't believe me about this talk to Romeoxero. He is very good at explaining this stuff.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: EricTheGreat12 on January 30, 2018, 12:33:15 PM
I'm just going to chime in here and say that gamers come in all different varieties.  Some players will get bored after a few months of no new content others take longer.  That said I am and always will be a gamer who enjoys new content but does not need a steady stream of new stuff for me to enjoy the game. 

I do agree with others that no news or updates does look bad for the company and the brand of Mage wars. 
I do know they are winding down or finishing up a very busy convention season and as others noted the company is small.  I don't want to give them excuses or speak for them but I do believe it would be nice to hear the happenings and inner workings of what the future of Mage wars is.


Some gamers here play video games, where dev diaries are common; it helps give insight as to what the developers are planning in terms of content for their games as well as providing a link between the developers and the community. While the board gaming industry does not follow the same guidelines and the computer industry, a little bit of interaction helps create a bond between consumer and company. Laddinfance did a good job of keeping us interested in the Paladin Vs. Siren process with the card reveals, and I would love it if Arcane Wonders would try to keep a similar interest in between their products and their costumers.

No matter what the size of the company is, it is essential for AW to maintain its consumer base. Wizards of the Coast and Fantasy Flight Games are popular because they have a great variety of games at their disposal encompassing various themes, whereas Arcane Wonders has released a very good mage fighting game, with not much else on their roster; and if money is an obstacle, there have been great games out there that have been funded via Kickstarter, games that are created by companies with little to no reputation and are suddenly they are some of the most popular companies around. Mage Wars and Sheriff of Nottingham were great Arcane Wonder releases, but they cannot be the flagship of the entire company forever.

I like Mage Wars as much as anyone here on this forum, but Arcane Wonders really needs to 'step up its game'. Sheriff Of Nottingham and Royals are interesting enough to catch people's attention, but a game such as "Speechless" is just so similar to another popular game (charades), and there is therefore little market appeal for the product. The future of Arcane Wonders is not on Mage Wars, but whether or not it can release innovative games that feel fresh and innovative in today's board game market; at the same time however, discontinuing Mage Wars content means that Arcane Wonders will lose the majority of their player base.

If you're having trouble promoting the game as easily as it would have been when it first came out, it might be because of a combination of the game becoming more difficult for beginners to get into over time, the people who left because of the wizard shenanigans before his errata who might still have a sour taste in their mouths, and sheer bad luck with your location. It doesn't mean the game as a whole is still losing popularity, just that it has lost some previously.

And even if it is still losing popularity a little bit now, that isn't necessarily indicative of a long term trend. Maybe it just goes up and down every time they release an expansion? There are other possible explanations besides the whole franchise being in any kind of jeopardy.

Things are going well overall, but they could be going a lot better. I think the significant lack of communication from arcane wonders is not a sign of a larger problem, it IS the problem, and possibly the only significant problem they have.

If you guys still don't believe me about this talk to Romeoxero. He is very good at explaining this stuff.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

Sailor, you say that this game is great and going strong, and earlier you stated that this game is suffering and that it should sell to a larger company if the game continues downwards; so what is the message that you're trying to get across?

It's losing popularity not because of the difficulty; it might turn people away from playing the game, but those who enjoy intense games with a heavy strategy and moment decision making enjoy Mage Wars. This game attracts certain players who enjoy the various parts of the game, just like any other game that has various different aspects of play.

I think the real reason why it may be losing popularity is due to a lack of consistent Mage Wars Arena expansions, coupled with a lack of communication from Arcane Wonders. Many players enjoy it, but when they've played it a couple of times and realize there's nothing left, they put it aside and forget about it until another expansion comes out; the slow rate of releases for expansion packs means that there is very little reason to keep on paying attention to development: why should I try to follow development when there isn't going to be any Arena expansions this year? I'll just come back in 2019 and hope for any word on Mage Wars Arena.

A weekly or monthly "Hey here's an art design for a card, what do you guys think?" may seem minimal, but it's one of many things this company can do in order to help retain its customers. Until then, you're not going to see this game increase in popularity nor playtime.

Title: Re: The future of Mage Wars
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 30, 2018, 12:49:08 PM
Check the time stamps on what I said earlier. I changed my mind a few weeks ago.

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