Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Jbuzzsaw79 on December 14, 2017, 08:59:41 PM

Title: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Jbuzzsaw79 on December 14, 2017, 08:59:41 PM
Wanted some feed back please on this here deck, I wanted to run with an angel variant but was not sure if
 few buddies would be good or maybe some kind of swarm with temple.  I really wanted to do this with the priestess because of royal armor and her crown will give them all +2 armor. This is what i got so far.
Angels of HarlemA Priestess Stats Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBBA Priestess Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBB
Attack4 x Luminous Blast1 x Surging Wave1 x Acid BallConjuration1 x Temple of Meraveran1 x Pillar of Righteous Flame2 x Consecrated Ground1 x Hand of Bim-Shalla2 x TanglevineCreature4 x Guardian Angel1 x Cassiel, Shield of Bim-Shalla1 x Selesius, the East Wind1 x Royal ArmorerEnchantment2 x Bear Strength3 x Divine Reversal1 x Mind Shield1 x Armor Ward1 x Enchantment Transfusion2 x Healing Charm2 x Galvanize2 x Eye for an Eye1 x Healing Madrigal1 x Life Link2 x Nullify1 x Regrowth1 x Demonic Bloodlust1 x Brace YourselfEquipment2 x Resplendent Bow1 x Leather Chausses1 x Helm of Justice2 x Radiant Breastplate1 x Crown of Protection1 x Elemental Cloak1 x Enchanter's Ring1 x Leather Boots1 x Eagleclaw Boots1 x Leather Gloves1 x Mage Wand1 x Ring of Asyra1 x Dawnbreaker Ring1 x Gloves of SkillIncantation1 x Crumble2 x Dispel2 x Dissolve1 x Focused Strike1 x Force Push1 x Heal2 x Minor Heal1 x Remove Curse1 x Teleport1 x Mending Wave
Total cost: 118 pts
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Reddicediaries on December 14, 2017, 09:07:55 PM
Wanted some feed back please on this here deck, I wanted to run with an angel variant but was not sure if
 few buddies would be good or maybe some kind of swarm with temple.  I really wanted to do this with the priestess because of royal armor and her crown will give them all +2 armor. This is what i got so far.
Angels of HarlemA Priestess Stats Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBBA Priestess Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBB
Attack4 x Luminous Blast1 x Surging Wave1 x Acid BallConjuration1 x Temple of Meraveran1 x Pillar of Righteous Flame2 x Consecrated Ground1 x Hand of Bim-Shalla2 x TanglevineCreature4 x Guardian Angel1 x Cassiel, Shield of Bim-Shalla1 x Selesius, the East Wind1 x Royal ArmorerEnchantment2 x Bear Strength3 x Divine Reversal1 x Mind Shield1 x Armor Ward1 x Enchantment Transfusion2 x Healing Charm2 x Galvanize2 x Eye for an Eye1 x Healing Madrigal1 x Life Link2 x Nullify1 x Regrowth1 x Demonic Bloodlust1 x Brace YourselfEquipment2 x Resplendent Bow1 x Leather Chausses1 x Helm of Justice2 x Radiant Breastplate1 x Crown of Protection1 x Elemental Cloak1 x Enchanter's Ring1 x Leather Boots1 x Eagleclaw Boots1 x Leather Gloves1 x Mage Wand1 x Ring of Asyra1 x Dawnbreaker Ring1 x Gloves of SkillIncantation1 x Crumble2 x Dispel2 x Dissolve1 x Focused Strike1 x Force Push1 x Heal2 x Minor Heal1 x Remove Curse1 x Teleport1 x Mending Wave
Total cost: 118 pts
Some things that stand out:
1. I don't think that you have enough offensive power. Sure you can have BS angels, but 2 dispels and essentially all of your dmg is gone. Add some knights imo. Honestly, I think with a buddy priestess, you need a forge or more offensive creatues. Angels just don't cut that.
2.You have a TON of equipment. I really doubt that you will find the actions to cast all of that.
3. I'm not sure if the armorer is worth it if you have to hardcast him.
That's what I notice at first glance. Not a bad first attempt I must say. Refine it and get back to us!
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Arkdeniz on December 15, 2017, 12:52:34 AM
Guardian Angels are a defender, not attacker. Having four of them is almost certainly too many - what do you have in mind for them to defend?

I suggest getting rid of a couple of them and replacing them with either Knights as Reddicediaries suggests (Knights of Westlock with 5 armour are scary things) or perhaps Griffins if you want to keep the flying theme going.

And +5 for having too much equipment, especially without a battleforge.

On looking at this book I think you may want to consider changing from Priestess to Priest. You will be relying on the mage to do a lot of the damage dealing work, and generally speaking a Priest is better at that than a Priestess.

Of course, you will have the element of surprise if you tool up a Priestess and wade in, but you will not have enough damage dealing options to sustain an early assault.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: RomeoXero on December 15, 2017, 01:03:54 AM
Welcome to the forums! Glad you've posted a book! It looks interesting but here's some food for thought for ya.

Reds right, you don't have nearly enough offence to actually kill the other mage, mainly because GAs are great for guarding, which you should do often to keep them alive. That means you aren't attacking wirh them. Can't kill the enemy mage wirh counter attacks.
If you wanna rely on ranged attacks like a bow or attack spells to deal damage, you'd better have a hawkeye for your mage. That extra die adds up!
I know the priestess has awesome channelling you begin with but without ANY channelling generators (except for one discount ring) you will still find yourself out of mana very fast.
You've got 7 creatures, one of which costs over 20 mana, all of which yiu must full cast. You've got no open full actions to use that bow with. That's gonna be mana taxing especially when the vast majority of your creatures are over 10 mana. You're not gonna habe the time to play all those creatures and still move, attack, or cast any of those conjurations you're packing.
Galvanize is a waste with a priestess. You can just remove those conditions without the needed face down contingency. If you're counting on them buffing the angels keep I  mind that they only get hit about 5/8ths of the time did they are that much less likely to get conditions.
Radiant breastplate is an odd choice due to the high number of guard or imtercept creatures you have, meaning you won't be using the 2 mana guard much, so id rather a dragonscale hauberk, or another chest piece with an elemental defence.
You don't have enough swarm potential to use merraveren. Esp when mist of your creatures have defences.
Demonic bloodlust. I get what your looking to do, but thets cheaper and better ways to get 2 extra dice, without the drawback and huge sp tag. If you're splashing into dark with holy mages, poisoned blood is a much better choice.
You've got a massive assortment of Equipment here, but much of it doubles locations. 2 gloves boots. Amd helmets. Tgats gonna leave you with a lot of dead cards in your book.
More later if yout want. Sorry long day
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: zot on December 15, 2017, 08:16:18 AM
i would note however that gw did extremely well using super buffed gas offensively in 2015. though his book had been designed specifically to do that.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: RomeoXero on December 15, 2017, 12:05:28 PM
 You talking about gdeikhaus? Yeah they were designed to swap enchants bank and forth with transfusions, he'd need more buffs to beef out the angels a bit more.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: zot on December 15, 2017, 12:19:26 PM
yep. he was very agressive with those angels.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Jbuzzsaw79 on December 23, 2017, 08:05:50 AM
I have been looking at and playing this and love the big angel girl, she can really put out the hurt.  I think about cutting some to add 2 grey angel or change deck alittle and run as priest.  Dose anyone think that maybe running little angels might be better? A swarm with crown and armour giving them plus 2 ac.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: zot on December 23, 2017, 09:27:42 AM
if you are having fun playing the angels go for it. I suspect they are a pain to deal with for opponents. watch out for an enemy gravikor. I would guess mana will be very tight most of the time because the creatures cost so much. so it may be difficult to get several into play at the same time.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Jbuzzsaw79 on December 23, 2017, 02:00:16 PM
I was wondering about broken wing angel and messenger of bim, u would not get heal from them tho, I only love the big wind angel the most, I could remove and change to add grey angels and remove at least one guardian, I think that priest with bow and with extra  armor on Angels and right buffs can really bring some heat down.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on December 23, 2017, 03:38:43 PM
Welcome to the forums! My advice is to play the blazes out of this book and make it work with your style. A little more offense might help but do what's working for you.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Jbuzzsaw79 on December 24, 2017, 10:33:48 PM
Feel like I have too many equipment and enchants in this first build also, thoughts on that also?
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Kelanen on December 25, 2017, 03:00:36 PM
Feel like I have too many equipment and enchants in this first build also, thoughts on that also?

I think you have far too much equipment without a Battleforge. You want to drop a lot, or more likely add a Forge in.

I doubt you need 2 Resplendant Bows?
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Obsidian Soul on December 26, 2017, 10:10:34 AM
I have to agree that you have too much equipment for a Priestess and too few creatures.  I tend to run 30-40 spell points worth of creatures with a Priestess so I have hitting power.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Beldin on December 26, 2017, 09:22:27 PM
I have to agree that you have too much equipment for a Priestess and too few creatures.  I tend to run 30-40 spell points worth of creatures with a Priestess so I have hitting power.

Actually I would disagree here. You can run a book with few choice creatures and a lot of equipment. These types of Qrush books do however use Battle Forge. There is no right or wrong answer; just personal preference, player ability, and levels of power. A mid powered book piloted expertly can beat a tier 1 book played poorly.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: littlenog on January 03, 2018, 12:37:48 PM
A Priestess Spellbook
built by http://www.spellbookbuilder.com

Total cost: 120 pts

--- Equipment ---
1 Crown of Protection
1 Dawnbreaker Ring
1 Eagleclaw Boots
1 Elemental Cloak
1 Enchanter's Ring
1 Gloves of Skill
1 Helm of Justice
1 Leather Boots
1 Leather Chausses
1 Leather Gloves
1 Mage Wand
2 Radiant Breastplate
2 Resplendent Bow
1 Ring of Asyra

--- Conjuration ---
2 Consecrated Ground
1 Hand of Bim-Shalla
1 Pillar of Righteous Flame
2 Tanglevine
1 Temple of Meraveran

--- Creature ---
1 Cassiel, Shield of Bim-Shalla
4 Guardian Angel
1 Royal Armorer
1 Selesius, the East Wind

--- Enchantment ---
1 Armor Ward
2 Bear Strength
1 Brace Yourself
1 Demonic Bloodlust
3 Divine Reversal
1 Enchantment Transfusion
2 Eye for an Eye
2 Galvanize
2 Healing Charm
1 Healing Madrigal
1 Life Link
1 Mind Shield
2 Nullify
1 Regrowth

--- Incantation ---
1 Crumble
2 Dispel
2 Dissolve
1 Focused Strike
1 Force Push
1 Heal
1 Mending Wave
2 Minor Heal
1 Remove Curse
1 Teleport

--- Attack ---
1 Acid Ball
4 Luminous Blast
1 Surging Wave

This book is complex I like the Armorer and Crown idea.

3 Armor / Aegis 1 Creatures that self heal is pretty nice.

I'm worried about actions though to get everything done.

So lets start with Items I think that can be removed.  SBP Saved
-1 Helm of Justice / You can only wear 1 helm
-2 Gloves of Skill / You only have 4 ranged attacks now
-2 Resplendent Bow x2 / Just a bad item
-5 Selesius, the East Wind / There are better 5 SBP creatures
-3 Demonic Bloodlust / WHY!?
-3 Divine Reversal / I do not like these enchantments that is preference though
-2 Galvanize / Your a priestess remove any conditions you want
-1 Dawnbreaker Ring / You can only wear 2 rings

*-2 Focused Strike I like Focused Strike, but I think 2 Piercing Strikes or 1 Piercing & 1 Perfect Strike might do you more justice against high armor targets.  This could stay as it is though.

That is 19 points saved

19 to go...
Get 2 more Bear Strengths run 4 of that is your goal
+4 SBP

15 to go...
+5 SBP is a big investment if your running a game changer and Holy has them.
Alandell, the Blue Knight.
Samandriel 5 Dice + 1 vs Non-living or dark creatures and a chance to stun.

10 to go...
a second regrowth isn't a terrible idea

8 to go...
2 pacify

6 to go...
You need a weapon so pick any wpn we'll assume 2 SBP

4 to go...
Divine Intervention and Purify or Resurrection

You might have issues with high armor targets in this build since there is really no piercing since you have no knights courage.

Final Book
A Priestess Spellbook
built by http://www.spellbookbuilder.com

Total cost: 120 pts

--- Equipment ---
1 Crown of Protection
1 Eagleclaw Boots
1 Elemental Cloak
1 Enchanter's Ring
1 Leather Boots
1 Leather Chausses
1 Leather Gloves
1 Mage Wand
2 Radiant Breastplate
1 Ring of Asyra
1 Staff of Asyra

--- Conjuration ---
2 Consecrated Ground
1 Hand of Bim-Shalla
1 Pillar of Righteous Flame
2 Tanglevine
1 Temple of Meraveran

--- Creature ---
1 Cassiel, Shield of Bim-Shalla
4 Guardian Angel
1 Royal Armorer
1 Samandriel, Angel of Light

--- Enchantment ---
1 Armor Ward
4 Bear Strength
1 Brace Yourself
1 Divine Intervention
1 Enchantment Transfusion
2 Eye for an Eye
2 Healing Charm
1 Healing Madrigal
1 Life Link
1 Mind Shield
2 Nullify
2 Pacify
2 Regrowth

--- Incantation ---
1 Crumble
2 Dispel
2 Dissolve
1 Focused Strike
1 Force Push
1 Heal
1 Mending Wave
2 Minor Heal
1 Purify
1 Remove Curse
1 Teleport

--- Attack ---
1 Acid Ball
4 Luminous Blast
1 Surging Wave


Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 03, 2018, 02:38:39 PM
I think that you are going to get stomped into the ground as it stands because you do not have enough creatures for your offense.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Coshade on January 03, 2018, 03:35:09 PM
So did you put Alandell in, or did you choose Samandriel over Alandell?
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 03, 2018, 06:22:06 PM
Neither, they are too overpriced.  I would choose Grey Angels and Dawnbreaker's Messengers.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 03, 2018, 06:46:48 PM
Neither, they are too overpriced.  I would choose Grey Angels and Dawnbreaker's Messengers.
What makes you say Allandel is overpriced? I do think he costs a bit much in some builds, but I wouldn't say overpriced.
I agree on the big angels.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: littlenog on January 03, 2018, 10:43:40 PM
I'll pay 5 for Allandel all day.

The angel is iffy cause of such the high mana cost.  7 Dice flying with a daze / stun is interesting though.   All of these creatures flying is a nice feature I'm not sure how it would work out honestly I really like GA's.  I left the Angel in just for flavor I'd have gone with Allendal myself. and 5 armor with 15 HP.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Coshade on January 03, 2018, 10:46:35 PM
Yeah I agree with ya. I think Alandell is the solid choice here.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 04, 2018, 12:30:33 AM
You do not have enough healing to bring Alandell online without sacrificing too much of the healing for your mage.  If you had 4 Heals and 4-6 Minor Heals, you might be able to get away with it, but your opponent will kill Alandell long before he becomes a threat.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 04, 2018, 12:45:09 AM
You do not have enough healing to bring Alandell online without sacrificing too much of the healing for your mage.  If you had 4 Heals and 4-6 Minor Heals, you might be able to get away with it, but your opponent will kill Alandell long before he becomes a threat.
Care to describe the methods of said killing?
Just put lifelink on him and he should survivie to get at least one attack in.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: RomeoXero on January 04, 2018, 12:57:45 AM
4 heals and 6 minor heals is an insane over commitment. Not only is heal your full channel in one round, but it's not seem feasible to play both in obe round on base channel. Not even on massively increased channel. The only one who should do anything close to this is a resto pally that is counting on healing for gaining his valor. And even that is a stretch. One mage wand offsets the need for 2 copies of a spell. Plus even In school that's 14 sp you're not using for anything else. Not the best idea
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: littlenog on January 04, 2018, 06:58:05 AM
Okay this is an attrition setup the way this book is designed.

The way it should work out is your opponent has a choice of what to do with his dispels.

Lets say an average person runs 2 to 3.  Well that is still not going to remove all your Bear Strength then there are the rest of the enchants to deal with.  Healing wise GA heal themselves and have a 8+ dodge along with Aegis 1 to not be hit anyways.  Now you make that 3 Armor GA with self heal and Bear Strength not including other outside healing and they become an issue real fast.  Most things that can attack flying are Squishy so 3 dice or 5 dice is ALOT against them.

This is a bare build working off someone else idea.  I can see some things I would do different, but over all the theory is pretty sound with an entire army flying.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: littlenog on January 04, 2018, 07:03:53 AM
Until I saw this book I never though of using the Crown with Armorer so there is a nice take away from this Book Idea regardless of how you view the concept I like it personally.

It just needs playtesting.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 04, 2018, 07:37:27 AM
Why bother worrying about the dispels?  My priority is dissolving your Mage Wand and just swarming your Mage because you do not have enough creatures for me to worry about.  If I am playing a Necromancer, I bring out twelve zombies by turn eight and just eat away your six creatures in a few turns.  If I am playing a Beastmaster, I bring out a couple of Grizzlies with unavoidable and eat your Angels.  I am playing a Forcemaster, I charm or sleep every creature and kill your mage one on one.  Without more creatures spells, the spellbook is fragile and lacks resilience and force.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Coshade on January 04, 2018, 08:11:23 AM
Are you trolling Obsidian?
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: RomeoXero on January 04, 2018, 11:38:52 AM
Are... are you for real dude? 12 zombies by round 8? What has your opponent been doing all that time? If you've dissolved a mage wand your right in his face. You'd be dead by round 8 of that's all you were spending your mana on.
Hard opinions are nice to have and all but sharing them in this kinda fashion comes off a little... mean bro.
We're a community here bud. Try and remember that were all here to have fun and be better players yeah?
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 04, 2018, 12:39:41 PM
Why bother worrying about the dispels?  My priority is dissolving your Mage Wand and just swarming your Mage because you do not have enough creatures for me to worry about.  If I am playing a Necromancer, I bring out twelve zombies by turn eight and just eat away your six creatures in a few turns.  If I am playing a Beastmaster, I bring out a couple of Grizzlies with unavoidable and eat your Angels.  I am playing a Forcemaster, I charm or sleep every creature and kill your mage one on one.  Without more creatures spells, the spellbook is fragile and lacks resilience and force.
Sure by round 8 you can have 12 zombies, if you basically spend your Mana on Nothing else. By that point that necro should just be dead.
Same with the bears, if you run allandel, he's just going to mitigate a lot of their dng potential with stuns.
I think your focusing too much on creature strength and less on board state.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 04, 2018, 04:29:41 PM
Reminds me of that one scene in yugioh where Joey is constantly losing duels, and then Yugi looks at his deck and finds out its filled with just monster cards and no spells or traps...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: RomeoXero on January 04, 2018, 09:18:48 PM
 oddly poignant here sailor.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: littlenog on January 05, 2018, 02:30:51 PM
Why bother worrying about the dispels?  My priority is dissolving your Mage Wand and just swarming your Mage because you do not have enough creatures for me to worry about.  If I am playing a Necromancer, I bring out twelve zombies by turn eight and just eat away your six creatures in a few turns.  If I am playing a Beastmaster, I bring out a couple of Grizzlies with unavoidable and eat your Angels.  I am playing a Forcemaster, I charm or sleep every creature and kill your mage one on one.  Without more creatures spells, the spellbook is fragile and lacks resilience and force.

This is an idea forum why don't you offer constructive advice of what you would do with this book.

Hell, I'll make you an offer I'll play this book as I've suggested against any book you have @Obsidian Soul.
Title: Re: Angels of Harlem, any feed back welcome plz
Post by: Jbuzzsaw79 on January 05, 2018, 05:02:15 PM
I see there are some great ideas here for the book thanks but some are missing the point which is sure u can add things like Alandell which depends some may find better but what I wanted was to make this book was an angel based book.  Wither it but by several large angels with enchant transfusion or by temple and swarm angels or mix just as long as angels and cards that would help them to win more often.  AM play testing a new version of this and will post it in a few days to get feed back from changes then thanks to all of you so far for your thoughts it has helped me to fix it I hope, please keep them coming