Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Spells => Topic started by: zot on December 22, 2017, 11:03:25 AM

Title: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 22, 2017, 11:03:25 AM
ok clearly it is renewing spring.

  followed by ballista which is fairly awesome and thematic. raincloud is just neat.

so any and all replies to this thread have to explicitly state:

"besides renewing spring which is clearly the correct answer, i would say: "

then you can mention your second and third favorite conjuration after renewing spring. all failing to do so, will be incorrect and sent to the back of the line to ponder their mistake.

Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Reddicediaries on December 22, 2017, 11:21:00 AM
I actually do really like renewing spring and it might be my favorite conjuration. I just don't use it enough.
I do REALLY like ballista as is gives war mages edges over spawnpoint builds because they can semi rush and snipe it pretty quickly or use it as an advantage vs other spawnpoint builds.
I also do really like tanglevine; all aggressive non spell damage based books need at least 2 I think. So useful for keeping your enemy in one place and well as nulling guards.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 22, 2017, 11:28:21 AM
you did not copy and paste the proper reply

"besides renewing spring which is clearly the correct answer, i would say: "


to the back of the line with you while you contemplate your next response.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Reddicediaries on December 22, 2017, 11:29:20 AM
you did not copy and paste the proper reply

besides renewing spring which is clearly the correct answer, i would say: "


to the back of the line with you while you contemplate your next response.
I thought that saying the spring is likely my favorite conjuration was enough. ???
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: iNano78 on December 22, 2017, 11:40:55 AM
Tanglevine is indeed awesome.

I've always been a fan of Idol of Pestilence; Altar of Skulls is actually quite good in multiplayer Domination and becomes the thing everyone else has to focus on immediately - mainly because cheap low-health living creatures are common in Domination. So those two would be my tops, aside from Tanglevine.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Coshade on December 22, 2017, 11:49:07 AM
This is a sweet thread! My favorite Conjuration would probably be Sacrifical Altar. It isn't the best Conjuration but I love the quick damage you can get out of it. Also if you know you are about to lose you can sacrifice your Mage for a jolly Warlocky laugh.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: SharkBait on December 22, 2017, 12:04:46 PM
This one is a lot easier than the creature decision.

Nothing says "Let's get this game going" like Deathlock. Deathlock is my favorite conjuration by far with Shallow Sea being a close second.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: drmambo23 on December 22, 2017, 12:12:10 PM
1. Altar of skulls
2. Graveyard
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 22, 2017, 01:12:41 PM
to the back of the line all of you

coshade
sharkbait
drmambo23
inano78

contemplate your incorrect answers and try again
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: iNano78 on December 22, 2017, 02:00:08 PM
Sorry, my CTRL+C/CTRL+V obviously wasn't working. Trying again.

Besides Renewing Spring Tanglevine which is clearly the correct answer, i would say:
Idol of Pestilence and/or Altar of Skulls
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Puddnhead on December 22, 2017, 03:07:47 PM
Zot is hereby ousted from his tyrannical rule. Construction Yard is clearly the correct answer!
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 22, 2017, 03:13:45 PM
you are a sadly mistaken henchman puddnhead. my thread, my rules. to the back of the line with you!

inano78 i think your keyboard is broken. to the back of the line with you until it gets fixed!
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: silverclawgrizzly on December 22, 2017, 04:09:46 PM
Renewing Spring obviously.

Though I do enjoy Consecrated Ground.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Reddicediaries on December 22, 2017, 04:24:54 PM
Renewing Spring obviously.

Though I do enjoy Sacred Ground.
You mean concentrated ground?
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: farkas1 on December 22, 2017, 04:38:38 PM
I do myself like renewing spring but I think I have a tanglevine in most of my books.   I do also love me some elephant grass, deathlok, and pillar of righteous flames is so good, it actually is my new favorite.   :o
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Arkdeniz on December 22, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
Altar of Skulls is actually quite good in multiplayer Domination and becomes the thing everyone else has to focus on immediately - mainly because cheap low-health living creatures are common in Domination.

I have found that Domination games are over too quickly for the Altar of Skulls to be really effective. In my normal 3-player set up with an 11-point win condition the game is often over in about turn 7. if you say the Altar starts operating in turn 3 that would make 8 points of poison damage on everyone. No worries for a mage, and probably not too much concern for a fair few of the other creatures running around.


And now to put myself very much at the end of Zot's line:

I consider Renewing Spring to be a little undercooked. Being static it means that creatures will usually have to step out of the line in order to use it, and move again to get back in line. Losing an attack or a guard action to get 3 dice of healing is rarely worth it, in my view. I'd rather swing for a 6 dice attack of my own and have my mage prepare to put out another creature.   


When it comes to my favourite conjuration, I probably can't go past the good old fashioned Battleforge. Saves my mage the need to use its own spell actions to put out the little equipment (or doubles the speed of kitting up). Lovely.   

Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: RomeoXero on December 22, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
Don't forget that the renewing spring also lets you remove a condition marker. Plus if you burn your full action using a zone attack to try and kill a bunch of creatures all at once, they can cast the spring and just heal up that damage one for one and be fresh and ready to come back I  the fight. It works best for swarms but ies a great way to pop off corrode, burn,  or the like and heal up for cheap. And it's reusable. I used to feel the same way but then i went to gen con and saw it get amazing use. It legitimately is a great card
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Arkdeniz on December 22, 2017, 11:09:30 PM
Don't forget that the renewing spring also lets you remove a condition marker. Plus if you burn your full action using a zone attack to try and kill a bunch of creatures all at once, they can cast the spring and just heal up that damage one for one and be fresh and ready to come back I  the fight. It works best for swarms but ies a great way to pop off corrode, burn,  or the like and heal up for cheap. And it's reusable. I used to feel the same way but then i went to gen con and saw it get amazing use. It legitimately is a great card

Hadn't thought of that style of use. I can see merit in it. But would not the enemy be able to take advantage of the swarm being tied up for a turn through, for instance, readying and using another area attack (which would get the Spring as well), getting better board position or buffing/healing/summoning? I could even see Sardonyx having fun (and being of use!) in a zone containing a damaged swarm and a Spring. 
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: RomeoXero on December 23, 2017, 01:42:05 AM
I mean... yes? Lol nobody plays sardonyx. And if you we're facing off against the big dead dragon then renewing spring wouldn't have been a good choice in the first place. It isn't heart for absolutely everything but it's pretty baller for what you get. 6 mana for 12 health? Sure ill take that
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Kelanen on December 23, 2017, 06:12:53 AM
I think Battleforge is by far the best conjuration.

It's 3 mana more than a Mana Crystal, but comes with a very useful action each turn. It's in about 75% of my books, even when it's triple cost.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 23, 2017, 09:24:07 AM
this thread is about your second and third favorite conjuration after renewing spring not a power discussion.
 
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Kelanen on December 23, 2017, 09:40:17 AM
My favourite cards are powerful cards. There is nothing else to like IMO. The questions are identical.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: farkas1 on December 23, 2017, 10:46:18 AM
I'm adding renewing spring to my main book and gonna see how it does. 
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: iNano78 on December 23, 2017, 12:18:32 PM
I get that Renewing Spring works well with Falcon swarms, since (a) they're swarmy (e.g. if you're playing them, you're probably playing 6 of them), (b) they're Flying = rarely hindered, and (c) they're Fast, so they can usually travel up to 2 zones when fleeing trouble, then heal for 3 dice in the same action; then next round they fly up to 2 zones to return to battle and attack for 1 action. Combine with Charge +X bonuses from a Totem and this gets quite deadly... (and of course just move out + in to attack with Charge +X bonuses on rounds when the Falcon doesn't need to heal) which was the theme of a GenCon winner's book.

Does the Spring work well with any other swarmy creatures? Foxes are Fast but not (inherently) Elusive, so they are generally limited to 1 zone if they want to flee battle and drink from the Spring. Goblins can be Elusive through Slaknir, but they aren't (inherently) Fast, so they're still limited to 1 zone if they want to flee battle and go for a drink.

Cervere, or almost any living buddy with Mongoose/Cheetah enchantments, could flee up to 2 zones to heal for 3 dice. Combine with a Regen enchantment and it could heal for ~5 on rounds that it drinks. But you generally don't want your powerful buddy giving up its attack on a round it needs to heal, so a Mage Wand with Minor Heal, or even just a Wand of Healing (or Staff of Beasts or Emerald Elk Stave) is probably preferable to the Spring. A buddy with a powerful attack would probably benefit more from Vampirism than Renewing Spring (against living creatures at least).

Does Meredia's Blessing replace Renewing Spring in most cases? Assuming you aren't up against a more swarmy opposing mage, it lets 1 creature heal for 2, and 1 object remove a condition marker. Sure, it's 1 creature per round, so it doesn't undo a zone attack spell as quickly... but losing your attacks from every creature in a swarm for a round isn't exactly optimal either. Better to have Meredia and a couple of Mending Waves / Group Mends in your book for the times when they're needed, than to dedicate several actions to a Renewing Spring (imho).

Back to favourites... I already mentioned Idol of Pestilence (and it's big brother Altar of Skulls). I didn't mention that the Idol isn't just for Necromancers/Warlocks. I used to use it in my aggro Forcemaster builds (to speed up the match), but it also combos very nicely with any Bloodthirsty creatures - Sharks, Dire Wolves, Blood Demons, Zombies, anything with Demonic Bloodthirst... Try it in a Johktari build! Her Wounded Prey ability loves Idol, and your Dire Wolves will go bananas! You just have to make sure your own creatures aren't going to die from the Idol in the process, and there are oodles of ways you can do this (aside from / in addition to Renewing Spring).
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Coshade on December 23, 2017, 02:39:56 PM
I have contemplated this Zot and I change my answer to Deathlock to counter Renewing Spring  :P
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Kelanen on December 23, 2017, 03:11:19 PM
Agreed that in the generic sense, Renewing Spring isn't all that...
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: DaveW on December 23, 2017, 06:20:55 PM
It depends on how and where you use Renewing Spring, really just like any conjuration.

I am going with Mohktari, Great Tree of Life... Regen 2 for a zone (including itself), and NOT zone exclusive, so you can stick it in the same zone as Renewing Spring to benefit from both when you have to get that drink.

Maybe not a great choice for use vs. a Warlock, but then Renewing Spring is that much better in that match-up due to its immunity.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: farkas1 on December 23, 2017, 06:49:25 PM
Yea I used renewing spring today it maybe saved one creature and healed my Mage 5 damage in a different game, but in the last game it  removed one burn but my tempo was crushed not getting in any armor or any other defenses, I could of won the game if I was more aggressive.  I'm saying pillar or elephant grass is my favorite too.  Renewing spring may not even in my top ten  :P
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: DaveW on December 23, 2017, 06:51:24 PM
Elephant Grass stopped being one of my favorites when I learned a zone attack can target it first, and if it takes enough to be destroyed, the critters don't get it's benefit from the same attack.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Kelanen on December 23, 2017, 08:06:01 PM
I use Mohktari in many books - anywhere I'm aiming to force a kill zone, or defend a home base. Renewing Spring I've only ever found use for in one book, and I think I tuned it out of there - certainly I rarely cast it. It's certainly not in my Top 10 Conjurations. Or 20...
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 23, 2017, 11:39:10 PM
it is not about power or anything. renewing spring is my favorite conjuration. you all are very welcome to your clearly wrong opinions.

Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: SirJasonCrage on December 24, 2017, 05:32:17 AM
I think the point where you're forced to use a full action to heal is the point you lose control over the game.
As such, I don't really like the spring.
If I'm swarming, my creatures don't usually survive getting hit.
If I'm using big creatures, I don't want to lose pressure by having them walk away and drink.
If I'm solo, I need the actions.


What I really do love is the wardstone.
As a Solo Curselock main, I really love it when people start using Remove Curse only to remove two pf their four curses.
I love how they struggle to find a way around my Mongoose, Savagery, Bear, Cheetah Mage, knowing full well that they can't purge me.

Praise the stones.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Kelanen on December 24, 2017, 05:33:40 AM
I prefer a Group Heal or Group Mend to Spring...
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Arkdeniz on December 24, 2017, 08:42:54 PM
it is not about power or anything. renewing spring is my favorite conjuration. you all are very welcome to your clearly wrong opinions.

Hi Zot

I am intrigued as to why the Renewing Spring is your favourite conjuration. It seems you have strong feelings about it. Could you please spread the Word to us unbelievers? 
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: RomeoXero on December 24, 2017, 09:10:29 PM
He will still respond but I've seen him use it in everything from wizard to warlord. Its just a workhorse card that does so many things for such little cost. Uts 6 mana for 12 health! That's insane value! If course the true cost is in the actions it takes to activate the spring, but if all you do from then on is heal twice its paid for itself in spades. If it removes one condition in addition to the free 3 dice its paid for itself period.
This card is core guys, from before cure, before merridias blessing, before healing wand even. Rain cloud, mend, extinguish, this thing predates them all. And back in the dark days the renewing spring did WORK! specifically rare work at the time. Short answer id bet, is that her likes it cuz it's fucking awesome! Lol! But maybe I'm wrong and thats just me. Well see.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 24, 2017, 10:06:12 PM


     i like the artwork.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Arkdeniz on December 24, 2017, 10:50:35 PM


     i like the artwork.

Well played, sir.

And Merry Christmas to you all!
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 24, 2017, 11:14:15 PM
merry christmas to all indeed.

   actually i think the rs is vastly underrated by many who have pointed out what they see as drawbacks. romeoxero has aptly pointed out the strengths for rs. arcane duels has me on video stating how much i like this spell. i can indeed credit this one card for multiple tournament match wins that likely would have been losses had i not used it. however others have their own experiences so mileage may vary.


   the real trick is knowing when to cast it and where. i recall one match, i think 2014, where a forcemaster had cast force hold on my wizard.  so i cast the spring, and a wizard tower. he was pounding me with a large creature, maybe a bear. i spent some rounds sucking the spring dry while hammering the bear with the tower. once i eliminated the bear threat, the fm finally let the hold drop and i chased him into the corner and finished him off. after the match he asked why i did not dispel the hold as he expected. i told him it was great that he was spending 4 mana upkeep to lock me where i wanted to be anyway. that is just one example. another of many, is in my 2015 match against sharkbait. his trogdor warlock came out of the gate super agressive and lit me up. again as a wizard. he had me one or two points from dead at one point. the spring bought me just enough time to turn the corner and take control of the game, and i was able to kill his warlock.

you can say how about adding a few heals, or regen, or other healing cards. i had regen going most likely. and heals offset one enhanced fireball. so at 4 sbp each, not running a playset of them, but my opponent certainly is running a playset of fireballs and a host of other attack spells. so two fire spells a round versus my shield, regen, some armor plus the spring allowed me to substitute actions for sbp. once i was able to outlast the damage fury, my opponent was super low on offense while i was just getting started. a few healing spells are not nearly enough to outlast a highly agressive mage imo. i am super happy more opponents do not run the spring.

again your mileage may vary, but the spring has and will continue to work for me.


Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Obsidian Soul on December 26, 2017, 09:28:25 AM
I rarely use Renewing Spring because it is unnecessary for the mages that I tend to play (Priestess and Paladin have better healing, as do Druid and Beastmaster).  My favorite conjurations are Mana Crystal, followed by Mana Flowers, followed by Vine Tree.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Beldin on December 26, 2017, 09:40:58 AM
I use Renewing spring as a coaster for my drink when I am building books that use better options than this card.

I tell a lie I have placed it in a book, as card stock for playtest proxies ;P
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on December 26, 2017, 09:43:09 AM
wow, though it did make me laugh.

to the back of the line with you, and let everyone else who is sent back there ahead of you for your crime.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: iNano78 on December 28, 2017, 07:42:41 AM
Forgot to mention, purely for multiplayer domination, I have an Altar of the Iton Guard in almost every book - including Druid, who pays triple. It's just so efficient, and strong in this format (basically an auto Rouse whenever you need a guard) and because it's legendary, there is often a race to get one in play. Often comes out during T1 opening QC, which would otherwise be a spawn point or mana generator.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Drefan on December 31, 2017, 01:58:02 PM
Vine tree duh!

Besides that one, I'd say Pillar of Righteous Flame for obv reasons :)
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: littlenog on January 29, 2018, 03:11:55 AM
Mana Flower or Mana Crystal they find a way into almost every deck I make.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 29, 2018, 08:43:04 AM
I keep trying to make spellbooks without battle forge, and somehow every time it finds its way back in after testing. I am getting kind of tired of battle forge, but it's too useful not to include in most of the kinds of strategies I come up with. :/

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Biblofilter on January 29, 2018, 09:06:49 AM
I really like Renewing Spring myself :)

Its nice to have something to remove conditions.

Hand of Bim Shalla and Tanglevine are still really good.

Pillar of Righteous Flame is just amazing. It might even be to good.
I like that with one card, i can have an answer to swarms, ethereal and zombies.

Vine Tree :) Absolutely.

Deathlock still in here, even if i donīt use it much and it just got nerfed some.

Mohktari is also an old favorite.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on January 29, 2018, 12:00:02 PM
biblo! 

you can stay at the front of the line.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Arkdeniz on January 30, 2018, 12:52:18 AM
Deathlock still in here, even if i donīt use it much and it just got nerfed some.

Has something happened to Deathlock recently?
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 30, 2018, 12:54:35 AM
Deathlock still in here, even if i donīt use it much and it just got nerfed some.

Has something happened to Deathlock recently?
I think he means that with new cards out like Martyr's Restoration and Dorseaus being released which "nerf" Deathlock's effectiveness.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Arkdeniz on January 30, 2018, 05:29:44 AM
Phew!

I was worried I'd missed something.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: Beldin on January 31, 2018, 07:59:39 AM
Battle Forge is my favourite conjuration. I would replace the first mana crystal in most books with this as not only does it give the same level of extra channelling but also gives a free action for an extra 3 mana.
Title: Re: favorite conjuration
Post by: zot on January 31, 2018, 03:22:35 PM
so farkas1, any new insight after our siren/fm match?