Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: drmambo23 on December 26, 2017, 05:14:46 PM

Title: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on December 26, 2017, 05:14:46 PM
The official tool of the trade post can be found here:

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=18575.0


So I have been thinking for a while now of making a "tools of the trade" type post, either 1 that has all mages separated in it or a different one for each mage...i lean more towards the former.  Regardless, I want this to be a community project that I update weekly.  This gives everyone a chance to share their ideas and have them all found in one location.  If you found the idea from someone else's book or video, if you can find a link to the original post please send it to me.  This allows others to view the content in context and gives the originator some credit as well.  If it is your own idea dont provide any links.  If you can't find a link just let me know you heard it on an AD vid or saw it in a book about x,y, or z, etc.

Anyways, the premise is going to be "tips and tricks" for a mage wars player, new or experienced.

These could be anything from

Necromancer:
use idol of pestilence to damage your opponent without taking damage yourself because you are poison immune

to

Charmyna's rust yourself to drop corrode markers then transfuse rust to the enemy (i believe he was the original one who posted that)

But you get the idea, anything that is helpful is welcome.

I dont have my notepad in front of me but a few i remember off the top of my head are

AC Warlock:
*Curseweave rise again
*riseagain a flame immune creature when fighting an adramelech warlock
*curseweave works on friendly curses (demonic bloodlust, demonic link)

Adramelech warlock:
*demonic link or bloodlust a friendly creature and use adramelechs torment to place a burn on them and fireweave it over (sharkbait)
*Range attacks trigger demonic reward for the mage and sersiryx

Forcemaster:
*forcepull up a steep hill through minds eye to avoid using your full action (puddinhead from an AD vid)
* mind control a flame immune creature against the adramelech warlock
* reveal galvanize right after mind control to use the creature immediately

Siren:
*Sirens call with your quick cast then guard with your full action to save your creatures from taking a big hit

Necromancer:
*Curse of decay is helpful in a mirror match


those are just a few examples.

But if anyone has something they have found is helpful with a mage and wants to share, please share.  Useful combos with paladin auras, movement manipulation, ways to work with sirens call, forcepull, etc.  I am open to all ideas.

Also, there will be another "general" section where I will post ideas that apply to most (holy, dark, mind, etc) or all mages.

Please send me all ideas in a pm with the subject line "Tools of the trade" and then post your ideas in the body.  I will compile them and post them in the original post so people do not have to hunt through a page or 2 to ideas for 1 mage.

I want to have this up and running by 1/15/18 so any ideas I have before then will be in the original post.  Any ideas people send after that will be added the following week.

Thank you all for reading and I look forward to seeing all of your guys ideas!
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Beldin on December 29, 2017, 03:19:09 AM
Forcemaster - Chant of Rage, target their creature, and indirectly target a Force Gremlin you control. The Force Gremlin is invisible thus cannot be attacked.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: DaveW on December 30, 2017, 10:08:12 PM
Forcemaster - Chant of Rage, target their creature, and indirectly target a Force Gremlin you control. The Force Gremlin is invisible thus cannot be attacked.

If the creature can't do something required (in this case, attack the Force Gremlin), it is free to do whatever it wants once it is in its zone.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Beldin on December 31, 2017, 05:48:28 PM
If the creature can't do something required (in this case, attack the Force Gremlin), it is free to do whatever it wants once it is in its zone.

But it will be out of the zone I am in.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: RomeoXero on January 01, 2018, 10:22:20 AM
I don't even know if you can put the marker on an invisible creature. Does it require targeting? But yes even with chant of rage they can completely ignore a  invisible creature for all intents and puroses. So itd be a bad choice
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: keejchen on January 01, 2018, 01:08:30 PM
Hate does not require targeting, so it is possible. If the affected creature is in the same zone as the gremlin, then it will be free to make other choices, because no mandatory action can be taken. However, if not in the same zone as gremlin, the affected creature will have to move towards the zone with the gremlin.

I'd say it is a legit strategy.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on January 02, 2018, 09:09:51 AM
Thank you guys for the pms and responses on the thread.  The lists are coming along. I do need some help with nature, beastmasters but mostly druid, and holy mages.  Those are 2 mage types i rarely play so i have very little experience with them. Any feed back on any mage or strategies are welcome but holy and nature need the most help atm.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: farkas1 on January 02, 2018, 10:45:50 AM
Inn it on the beast masters and I will try and think. Of some combos for druids as well.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: DevilsVendetta on January 02, 2018, 11:57:37 AM
There's the Divine Intervention trick to force an opponents mage to waste a big creature.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 02, 2018, 11:59:24 AM
There's the Divine Intervention trick to force an opponents mage to waste a big creature.
Also the one where they try to attack spell you and DI whisks you away, essentially wasting their action, sbp, and mana.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Jbuzzsaw79 on January 02, 2018, 01:31:42 PM
Also the one where they try to attack spell you and DI whisks you away, essentially wasting their action, sbp, and mana.

So just so am clear if some one was casting say hurl rock on my I reveal DI and put them away the cast retarget something else and the waste spell and action for it, so after they declare then u reveal before the roll huh, interesting
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: iNano78 on January 02, 2018, 01:52:44 PM
Also the one where they try to attack spell you and DI whisks you away, essentially wasting their action, sbp, and mana.

So just so am clear if some one was casting say hurl rock on my I reveal DI and put them away the cast retarget something else and the waste spell and action for it, so after they declare then u reveal before the roll huh, interesting

Correct. Although that would be a bit of a waste, since the enemy's Hurl Rock is definitely fewer sbp's and mana than DI.

Consider having DI on a Warlock who tries to summon Adramelech, Lord of Fire. Reveal Divine Intervention at the end of the "Counter spell" step after mana has been paid. The Warlock gets teleported (even if 0 zones) and loses LOS to the zone, thus the Adramelech creature spell fizzles, and the Warlock is out 24 mana / 6 sbp cards (and is unlikely to have a back-up copy of the Lord of Fire in her spell book).
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 02, 2018, 02:05:26 PM
Also the one where they try to attack spell you and DI whisks you away, essentially wasting their action, sbp, and mana.

So just so am clear if some one was casting say hurl rock on my I reveal DI and put them away the cast retarget something else and the waste spell and action for it, so after they declare then u reveal before the roll huh, interesting
You can also put the DI on yourself and you can then essentially negate the attack.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: RomeoXero on January 02, 2018, 02:50:44 PM
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Puddnhead on January 02, 2018, 03:08:09 PM
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit and a spell  (Enchantment Transfusion) that should have never been printed  ;)

But yes, if you are moved (even to the same place) in the middle of casting ANY spell, that spell is canceled.  Obviously the ideal things to counterspell with DI will be 12+ mana and/or 3+ sbp.  Such as a Purge Magic or a Grizzly Bear.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: iNano78 on January 02, 2018, 03:18:06 PM
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit and a spell  (Enchantment Transfusion) that should have never been printed  ;)

But yes, if you are moved (even to the same place) in the middle of casting ANY spell, that spell is canceled.  Obviously the ideal things to counterspell with DI will be 12+ mana and/or 3+ sbp.  Such as a Purge Magic or a Grizzly Bear.

Does a mage always have LOS to itself? For example, if a Forcemaster tries to cast Galvitar, Force Blade on herself, and DI is revealed teleporting the Forcemaster at the Counter Spell step, does Galvitar fizzle or is it resolved because the Forcemaster never lost LOS to herself?

*edit* In comparison, I would definitely agree that Galvitar out of a Battle Forge would fizzle, since the Forge would lose LOS to the Forcemaster before resolving the spell.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Puddnhead on January 02, 2018, 04:28:36 PM
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit and a spell  (Enchantment Transfusion) that should have never been printed  ;)

But yes, if you are moved (even to the same place) in the middle of casting ANY spell, that spell is canceled.  Obviously the ideal things to counterspell with DI will be 12+ mana and/or 3+ sbp.  Such as a Purge Magic or a Grizzly Bear.

Does a mage always have LOS to itself? For example, if a Forcemaster tries to cast Galvitar, Force Blade on herself, and DI is revealed teleporting the Forcemaster at the Counter Spell step, does Galvitar fizzle or is it resolved because the Forcemaster never lost LOS to herself?

*edit* In comparison, I would definitely agree that Galvitar out of a Battle Forge would fizzle, since the Forge would lose LOS to the Forcemaster before resolving the spell.

The relevant text from the rulebook is here:

"If the attacker or defender moves during the attack (such as
by revealing an enchantment that allows him to Teleport)
that attack is canceled, even if the move was to another
location that is in range."

"When a spell resolves, if you find that the target of the spell
is no longer a legal target or has moved, even to the same
zone, then the spell is cancelled."

I cannot find anywhere in the supplement or the rulebook that being moved during the cast action cancels your spell UNLESS it results in the caster no longer having range or LoS.  So, I would suggest that DI on a Mage to cancel a bear would only work if you actually moved the mage into a new zone because the target zone has not actually moved and is still a legal target if in range.  I might be missing something, though.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on January 02, 2018, 04:41:16 PM
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit and a spell  (Enchantment Transfusion) that should have never been printed  ;)

But yes, if you are moved (even to the same place) in the middle of casting ANY spell, that spell is canceled.  Obviously the ideal things to counterspell with DI will be 12+ mana and/or 3+ sbp.  Such as a Purge Magic or a Grizzly Bear.

Does a mage always have LOS to itself? For example, if a Forcemaster tries to cast Galvitar, Force Blade on herself, and DI is revealed teleporting the Forcemaster at the Counter Spell step, does Galvitar fizzle or is it resolved because the Forcemaster never lost LOS to herself?

*edit* In comparison, I would definitely agree that Galvitar out of a Battle Forge would fizzle, since the Forge would lose LOS to the Forcemaster before resolving the spell.

The relevant text from the rulebook is here:

"If the attacker or defender moves during the attack (such as
by revealing an enchantment that allows him to Teleport)
that attack is canceled, even if the move was to another
location that is in range."

"When a spell resolves, if you find that the target of the spell
is no longer a legal target or has moved, even to the same
zone, then the spell is cancelled."

I cannot find anywhere in the supplement or the rulebook that being moved during the cast action cancels your spell UNLESS it results in the caster no longer having range or LoS.  So, I would suggest that DI on a Mage to cancel a bear would only work if you actually moved the mage into a new zone because the target zone has not actually moved and is still a legal target if in range.  I might be missing something, though.

Makes sense. So by this, equipment would cancel if you moved them 3 zones away from the casting spot or around a wall to block los?
If you leave them in the same zone or within range 2 the spell may stick?

Am i getting that right?
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: keejchen on January 02, 2018, 04:56:21 PM
I'm pretty sure the spell is just always broken with DI, no exceptions.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Puddnhead on January 02, 2018, 05:24:01 PM
From what I read, the spell is always broken if the TARGET moves.  Not the caster.  So, no matter where the target moves, it has moved and therefore the spell is canceled.  But it seems like if you move the caster it doesn't do anything unless the target becomes no longer valid.

It could be that some sort of non-explicit definition of a teleport involves removing all range or LoS to anything else and thus it always cancels, but I do not see that in the rules.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: keejchen on January 02, 2018, 05:35:31 PM
http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources/Mage_Wars_Official_Rules_and_Codex_Supplement4.2.pdf

Page 7

Changing the Range or Target of a Spell or Attack
A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
1. The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
2. The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the move was to a location where
the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies even if the teleport was into the same zone).
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: DevilsVendetta on January 02, 2018, 06:31:00 PM
It'd be a bit of a waste to use it on Galvitar since it's cantrip and goes right back to the spellbook. It's a loss of mana and tempo, but not a complete waste. Doing it as the mage casts a big creature or big attack spell would be the only ways I'd use it in that situation since it's still a loss of mana and tempo, but the creature or attack spell is also lost which is the key to me.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Sailor Vulcan on January 02, 2018, 08:00:32 PM
Also, DI has epic so you can only use it once per game.

If you're running a mana denial deck and you have enchantments, enchanter's wardstone can trigger sistarran robe's eff.

Also, don't forget that drain life drain soul and siphon life can be used on non mage creatures, not just mages. And sometimes this is a really good move. Usually I only see people using them on mages.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Puddnhead on January 02, 2018, 10:36:18 PM
http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources/Mage_Wars_Official_Rules_and_Codex_Supplement4.2.pdf

Page 7

Changing the Range or Target of a Spell or Attack
A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
1. The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
2. The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the move was to a location where
the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies even if the teleport was into the same zone).

AHA!  I DID miss something!  Thanks Keejchen.  That's how I've seen it played out, but I couldn't find the rules to back up that convention.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Kelanen on January 04, 2018, 11:51:04 AM
If you couple divine intervention with an enchantment transfusion, you've got an on demand counterspell.

And the entire trick is a complete jerk move using a rules exploit

I really think it's neither! It's a lot of mana and spell points for what you get, but it's a cool trick. It's what MW needs more of!
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on January 10, 2018, 09:54:27 PM
Ok guys, only 5 more days until tools of the trade is officially up! :D
Thank you everyone for your submissions so far!

If anyone has anymore ideas, please send them in; the areas i seem to be lacking material on are:
dark mages in general, nature mages in general, warlords, priest and priestess.

and just to let you guys know where i am at currently, i have 4,376 *4,516* words in my document for this! Keep the ideas coming and keep your eyes posted for the official post on 1/15/18!
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Biblofilter on January 11, 2018, 12:36:17 AM
WoT + FP  :)

DI + W + Big T :)

Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on January 11, 2018, 10:06:52 AM
WoT + FP  :)

DI + W + Big T :)



DI + W + Big T
???
divine intervention + wall + big threat?
Dig In + Warlord + Big Threat?
lol not sure what the last one means :b
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Biblofilter on January 11, 2018, 11:24:00 AM
WoT + FP  :)

DI + W + Big T :)



DI + W + Big T
???
divine intervention + wall + big threat?
Dig In + Warlord + Big Threat?
lol not sure what the last one means :b

You got it :)

Divine Intervention+Wall+Tsunami

It might get known as T-Cheese  ::)
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: RomeoXero on January 11, 2018, 11:26:48 AM
Lol biblo that's 32 mana. That's a lot
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 11, 2018, 04:00:25 PM
If you are going the Divine Intervention route, it is often better to use it on the enemy mage after you have established a bunch of heavy hitters (like a few Knights of Westlock or a couple of other heavy hitters).  I generally prefer using a Teleport followed by a Divine Intervention, so I can yank them back with the Divine Intervention if they run.  With four Kinght of Westlock, you an get 8 hits at 5+ dice each, which will cause most mages to whimper and die, especially if you have spent your time destroying their protective equipment and enchantments.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Reddicediaries on January 11, 2018, 05:39:45 PM
If you are going the Divine Intervention route, it is often better to use it on the enemy mage after you have established a bunch of heavy hitters (like a few Knights of Westlock or a couple of other heavy hitters).  I generally prefer using a Teleport followed by a Divine Intervention, so I can yank them back with the Divine Intervention if they run.  With four Kinght of Westlock, you an get 8 hits at 5+ dice each, which will cause most mages to whimper and die, especially if you have spent your time destroying their protective equipment and enchantments.
I don't see this working. :)
A single move and lesser teleport will solve this issue.
I would assume the enchant so I would seeking it and then I'm totally safe.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on January 11, 2018, 06:11:21 PM
If you are going the Divine Intervention route, it is often better to use it on the enemy mage after you have established a bunch of heavy hitters (like a few Knights of Westlock or a couple of other heavy hitters).  I generally prefer using a Teleport followed by a Divine Intervention, so I can yank them back with the Divine Intervention if they run.  With four Kinght of Westlock, you an get 8 hits at 5+ dice each, which will cause most mages to whimper and die, especially if you have spent your time destroying their protective equipment and enchantments.
I don't see this working. :)
A single move and lesser teleport will solve this issue.
I would assume the enchant so I would seeking it and then I'm totally safe.

If its worked for him it could work for others too! Using teleport on you qc, hotting with a biuddy right after then DI them back in, even if you have to move a zone can work. They can di reveal immediately after they play it to avoid a seeking dispel.

I'll add it to the list.

And biblo, are you thinking wall of thorns then tsunami? And where does the di come in to play? Just want the details so i can write it up :)

Over 5000 words now guys! :D
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Biblofilter on January 11, 2018, 06:13:06 PM
Isolation

Teleport is one option, but im really talking walls here.
Wall of Bones probably the best one.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Biblofilter on January 11, 2018, 06:36:51 PM
If you are going the Divine Intervention route, it is often better to use it on the enemy mage after you have established a bunch of heavy hitters (like a few Knights of Westlock or a couple of other heavy hitters).  I generally prefer using a Teleport followed by a Divine Intervention, so I can yank them back with the Divine Intervention if they run.  With four Kinght of Westlock, you an get 8 hits at 5+ dice each, which will cause most mages to whimper and die, especially if you have spent your time destroying their protective equipment and enchantments.
I don't see this working. :)
A single move and lesser teleport will solve this issue.
I would assume the enchant so I would seeking it and then I'm totally safe.

If its worked for him it could work for others too! Using teleport on you qc, hotting with a biuddy right after then DI them back in, even if you have to move a zone can work. They can di reveal immediately after they play it to avoid a seeking dispel.

I'll add it to the list.

And biblo, are you thinking wall of thorns then tsunami? And where does the di come in to play? Just want the details so i can write it up :)

Over 5000 words now guys! :D

Well it was the idea behind my Gen-Con spellbook. Did not come up in the tourney as i did not face anybody with more than 3 creatures.

In the casual play after i did play vs a brand new Warlord (at that time) He had a Steep Hillzone (b1) with 3 Bloodwawe Greatbow, 6 Orc Butchers, a mighty buffed Orc Warlord and Thorg. Formations and stuff.

I had a zone 3 away from that (c3) with 2 GA and a Balista and my Paladin.

So i DI to the top of the Hill casted Wall of Pikes and Tsunamied everything. A few Butchers wasnt pushed, but the rest through the wall and then a new 3 dice att vs the survivors. Thorg died to the Balista shot after all that.
3+5+3+3 and then 5 piercing 3.

I did feel just a tiny bit better than after pulling the old WoT - which i will still happily try from time to time :)
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Arkdeniz on January 11, 2018, 09:16:31 PM
Six Orc Butchers?

Surely not. Four and some other things, surely.

Still, nice move. Your opponent’s ridiculous level of turtling deserved nothing less.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Grimstringer on January 12, 2018, 05:34:42 AM
is tsunami so good that paladins use it? :O 

i havent got the expansion yet.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: Obsidian Soul on January 12, 2018, 07:07:23 AM
Tsunami is dangerous.  I have heard of players taking out their own armies with the card.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: DaveW on January 12, 2018, 03:34:12 PM
Tsunami is why I completely stopped playing small creature swarms. It's once a game, but if they take out 6-8 creatures with one spell / action and far less mana than you used to bring out your main fighting force, once is plenty.
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on January 13, 2018, 01:14:45 AM
Whoops...So in all of the writing I have done, I forgot the Wizard.  :o  Any wizard tips and tricks please send them my way!  :D

Thanks!
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: keejchen on January 13, 2018, 02:09:19 AM
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=17224.0  ;D

More mage specific:

-High channeling allows you to use voltaric shield every round
-Remember to take ini if you want to use gate
-Hawkeye makes zap really good
Title: Re: Call to all MW players...Tools of the Trade
Post by: drmambo23 on January 15, 2018, 08:45:00 PM
The official tools of the trade post can be found in the link below and will be updated weekly given i have new submissions.
Thanks again to all who helped!

Tools of the trade
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=18575.0