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Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: isel on August 23, 2018, 06:41:05 PM

Title: Flying and no flying and logic
Post by: isel on August 23, 2018, 06:41:05 PM
Hello, with my friend we are testing a new rule, its a suggestion cuz we believe itīs interested.

Since the beggining of the game we saw that flying creatures are too powerfull, but when you quit the flying they dont suffer, you know when a plane lose flying in the air, its a messy, then we thing, because we were a bit tired of confronting the angels of another friend, we made a rule. When you lose flying you get a bash in the same manner as a push against a wall, and several attacks that we think that quit the flying permanently or temporal do the bash damage, for example a Thornslasher have a snatch attack, we thought that if you susscess in snach the flying creature, the flying creature normally go against the floor, them a bash attack.

What do you believe? itīs logical? overpower?
Title: Re: Flying and no flying and logic
Post by: DaveW on August 23, 2018, 07:58:45 PM
Just a quick thought.... This would make swarms of small flying creatures no longer viable. Imagine what would happen if there are four or five Darkfenne Bats around and Gravikor is cast. Several other creatures come to mind as well... the normally fairly-resiliant Fellela, for example, would lose half of her life, and Huginn might even die on a good roll from the unavoidable attack if they lose Flying for whatever reason; and Tataree likely would be killed outight.

If you want to try having a penalty for losing flying, I'd suggest the addition of a condition like in Force Bash, where the Creature(s) involved gain the Slammed condition. Temporary... no lose of life directly from the fall... seems to give more balance to me.

I presume that voluntary loss of Flying would not incur this penalty, such as when a Flying creature guards.

Also, my opinion would be that being grabbed by a Thornlasher would not incur this penalty... Snatch doesn't seem to allow for a bash type attack to me... just a gut feeling.
Title: Re: Flying and no flying and logic
Post by: wtcannonjr on August 24, 2018, 06:08:32 AM
While I think this type of rule might lead to a more "realistic" interaction when the Flying trait is removed, it requires additional rules and 'if - then' situations be defined to the point of adding more rules complexity for not much game play value in my opinion.

When you say Flying creatures are too powerful and then describe this new rule it seems like you are adding a new rule just to counter Flying creatures and their impact on your current spellbook designs and play styles. We have found that two counter strategies are already available to all mages to deal with the Flying trait. (1) Ranged attacks and (2) summoning Flying creatures of your own to hinder and melee the opponent above the Arena floor. You might also look at including more Attack spells from the Air school as these can provide bonus dice and push effects to Flying creatures. When you factor the extra dice and the bash from a push against the outer Arena wall these can result in up to 7 dice attacks for 4 or 5 mana.
Title: Re: Flying and no flying and logic
Post by: Arkdeniz on August 24, 2018, 06:15:50 AM
If you are wanting to apply logic, then the smaller flying creatures would necessarily take less damage from any 'crash'.

Tataree is a butterfly. It wouldn't be damaged by falling.

Adramelech or an Eagle Winged Leviathan would take a lot more.

All up, I think the suggested Slam compromise would be better, but I don't see the need for that (although a case could be made for Knockdown, which is a vertical Force Push of sorts, inflicting some damage).
Title: Re: Flying and no flying and logic
Post by: Zuberi on August 24, 2018, 10:57:15 AM
I agree with wtcannonjr. There's already ways to deal with flyers. They're not too powerful, you just need more games and experience. In fact, they have pretty significantly reduced stats for their cost compared to non-flying creatures. The trait isn't free.

In addition to ranged attacks and using you're own flyers, you can simply remove their ability to fly. Obviously you have things that say they remove flying, like Gravikor and Maim Wings, but you're not limited to that. Any ability that incapacitates or restrains also removes flying. Attack spells that slam are a very popular way of dealing with them.

Or you could just ignore them. Since they have lower stats than a non-flyer, if you just make non-flyers you'll have more powerful creatures for the same cost. And the flyers can't get in your way unless they lose flying. So just focus on the enemy mage. If they try to guard, throw a Tanglevine or Force Hold on them. Now they can't effectively guard AND they are grounded if you want to focus on them.

My guess is that it's guardian angles that are really giving you trouble, and restraining them not only counters their flying AND their guarding, it also negates their defense. So that's a really good strategy against them.
Title: Re: Flying and no flying and logic
Post by: ClockWork on June 17, 2019, 09:19:57 PM
For the record I think flying is pretty well balanced, but game-play can vary based on local meta.  I feel DaveW has a very good point about small flyers. I would ask you to consider amending your house-rule to bash falling flyers for an amount of dice equal to their level.  I feel it keeps the spirit of your rule alive, without changing the game too much, and inhabiting certain Book builds