Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Karadox on February 28, 2019, 02:08:43 AM

Title: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Karadox on February 28, 2019, 02:08:43 AM
Hellstar is only usable be warlocks he should have ben unavoidable like the Morning Star, now he is useless
he should be the one with the better burn chanse or at last cost one less mana.

Dragonīs Lance can be used be all Mages can be used in the Shield slot to and has the better Brun chanse, WHY?

Hellstar is a dead card now!
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Kelanen on February 28, 2019, 05:22:05 AM
To try an put some Arena usability on a usable set...
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Karadox on February 28, 2019, 06:34:08 AM
Hellstar should look like this ....
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: iNano78 on February 28, 2019, 12:11:33 PM
For those who haven't seen it...

(http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18858.0;attach=3396;image)

Yep, looks strictly better than Hellstar (in either game), even ignoring the Ki ability.
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on February 28, 2019, 07:15:45 PM
Hellstar is a dead card now!

Not necessarily- if the Hellstar card can be used in Academy, and the other player uses the Dragon's Lance, then the Hellstar can be useful. Even then, Hellstar can still be useful for players that won't buy the Monk Academy expansion
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Kelanen on March 01, 2019, 06:53:47 PM
Not necessarily- if the Hellstar card can be used in Academy, and the other player uses the Dragon's Lance, then the Hellstar can be useful.

It's not Legendary - you can both use Dragon's Lance...
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on March 03, 2019, 03:51:14 PM
Not necessarily- if the Hellstar card can be used in Academy, and the other player uses the Dragon's Lance, then the Hellstar can be useful.

It's not Legendary - you can both use Dragon's Lance...

Nevertheless, a person who doesn't own the Monk Academy set can still find the Hellstar usefull
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Karadox on March 04, 2019, 01:21:48 AM
Well and a person who dont plays academy, dont need it at all.
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: DaveW on March 06, 2019, 11:47:21 PM
Well and a person who dont plays academy, dont need it at all.

Of course they do... it is better and usable in Arena.
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Robintheboywonder on April 28, 2019, 10:46:20 PM
Before I get into what changes can be done to the hellstar, let's discuss what makes the two items in question different. Being in the dark school, hellstar is an in school option for warlocks and necromancers in both arena and academy. 1 spellbook point for an item that burns 5/12, could be a good mix up tool to throw your opponent off when your book doesnt focus on burns. Dragon's lance is in the fire school, giving in school bonus to again warlocks but also elementalist and monk due to martial subtype. With a 50% burn roll, an ability to guarantee a burn, and held item options, Dragon's lance does look like an all around better option for a fire mage to use, but for a nature mage who wants to switch things up hellstar wouldnt penalize them in the SBP department.
So there are a couple things about hellstar that could be changed to set it apart from dragon's lance.
1. Grant hellstar the unavoidable trait. There would need to be a mana readjustment for this equipment, but it would be more in tune with the morning star. It cost more mana because it also burns unlike morning star which is just unavoidable.
2. Better burn chance on hellstar than dragon's lance. Pretty straightforward, reduce hellstar base burn roll equal to or lower than dragon's lance burn roll. IMO it would need to be lower than to give it some appeal. Firestream is 4mana 4dice 6+burn, if we brought hellstar to 6+ from 8+ then we would have a choice between cast an attack spell or cast hellstar and attack for almost similar value.
3. Hellstar needs flame damage added to its attack bar. Having a higher burn roll than dragon's lance but having the benefit of being flame damage would balance out these two items especially for the Arena crossover. Making hellstar a cheap not as effective lash of hellfire would be a good way to revitalize this item. It would gain benefits of fireshaper ring and attacking flame+ targets, but it would be confusing as to how a nature mage has a weapon on fire but doesnt have a penalty for having it.
These 3 options are all worth pondering over for a possible errata to hellstar. As the game progresses and more cards are added some might get completely overshadowed. I feel hellstar was forgotten when they made dragon's lance, and it was left in a bad state compared to its newer model.
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Karadox on April 29, 2019, 04:26:47 AM
You missed an important point Hellstar is Warlock only.
In my opinion, a Class specific weapon should be a bit better as one usable by all Mages.

Hellstar should definitely be unavoidable (because this kind of weapons is hard to avoid).
If it should still cost only 5 mana or not we would have to consider.
If Hellstar would cause flame damage, it should cost 6 mana i think.
Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Boocheck on May 13, 2019, 06:24:55 AM
I agree it should be unavoidable, but it is already out there. So far, we get 3 errated card and i dont think Hellstar would be the fourth :)

Title: Re: Hellstar vs Dragonīs Lance
Post by: Beldin on May 13, 2019, 09:33:08 PM
Well and a person who dont plays academy, dont need it at all.

Of course they do... it is better and usable in Arena.

Well it depends on the 120. There is a fringe case where you want to save 1 sbp, do not need reach, or the extra burns from lash of Hellfire; but you still want an extra weapon of 4D. I would categorise this as the novice version for LoH for Warlocks. Maybe playable in a forge build but only as a backup. You have to weigh up what you are losing for the gain of a SBP and a in-game gain of 3 mana. Also you have to read it as blank text, as all Ki is generated in arena using inefficient plays. If you really need a burn that badly it is more efficient in actions, SBP, etc to use Wand of fire and Ice.

Personally I think I would stick an extra Lash of Hellfire and a wand of Fire an Ice over this. Both the Lash and the Wand will give you more utility over this alone.