Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Macushi on December 22, 2019, 05:15:40 AM

Title: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Macushi on December 22, 2019, 05:15:40 AM
I don't have any exact information what is coming to MW arena the year 2020, but at Facebook they promised something. That is enough for me to believe this development is going on...
I know creating something completely NEW takes a lot of testing, and after so many years I don't mind waiting a few months more. It might be monk/elementalist suited for arena?
Or something completely new?
 8)
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on December 23, 2019, 08:27:25 AM
As previously stated in the “Its 2019- any news?” thread, I don’t expect there to be any more content. If we end up in late 2020 with AW saying again that they’re not announcing anything at this time, then it’ll simply be going through another cycle of “let’s see how long we can keep this small community going”. The game will be turning 8 years old in 2020, the community that is left is of a small group of people fully devoted to the game and so it’s just not a priority for Arcane Wonders’ long term planning.

However, if they are actually serious (hopefully they’ve learned from the mistakes of their previously horrible marketing practices and lack of community engagement), I expect that it’ll be a Lost Grimoire Volume 2. There’s just not enough of a community remaining for them to go full throttle on the content they teased at years ago, and this game is quite frankly too old to be supported with future official content. A Lost Grimoire 2 would be a good release of final content, and would give the chance for them to finally admit to the community that Mage Wars Arena is finished.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: iNano78 on December 26, 2019, 08:07:14 AM
I don't have any exact information what is coming to MW arena the year 2020, but at Facebook they promised something. That is enough for me to believe this development is going on...
I know creating something completely NEW takes a lot of testing, and after so many years I don't mind waiting a few months more. It might be monk/elementalist suited for arena?
Or something completely new?
 8)

You made me look, but I don't see any recent (since April 2019) posts related to MW at either the Arcane Wonders or Mage Wars Facebook pages.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Powlich on December 26, 2019, 09:22:10 AM
I don't have any exact information what is coming to MW arena the year 2020, but at Facebook they promised something. That is enough for me to believe this development is going on...
I know creating something completely NEW takes a lot of testing, and after so many years I don't mind waiting a few months more. It might be monk/elementalist suited for arena?
Or something completely new?
 8)

You made me look, but I don't see any recent (since April 2019) posts related to MW at either the Arcane Wonders or Mage Wars Facebook pages.

It's in the comments for the post about "Foundations of Rome" from 18th december on the Arcane wonders FB-page. "We've been listening and we have big plans coming for Mage Wars that we will be announcing during 2020"

It sounds like more than just a Lost Grimore vol. 2 or similar. I think that there is a market for a second edition of MW, with some changes from the original game, making it a bit more "accessable". But I think that's too much to hope for. So maybe it's a new Mage vs. mage-set, like Monk vs. Elementalist for arena.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Thessial on December 27, 2019, 09:26:56 AM
Folks,

I know it has been a while and I am grateful that you are still here. I hope we can post an official announcement soon, but we are turning over a new leaf and not making promises we can't keep. We have some new blood helping with all our projects and Mage Wars is a part of this. I can't make any concrete statements other than to say what we are looking at is definitely bigger than another Lost Grimoire. I genuinely hope our plans will warrant your excitement as much mine. I won't ask for more patience, because we have already taken more than we should have, but just know that real things are happening.

Thank you very much.

Thessial
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Grimstringer on December 28, 2019, 03:36:59 AM
OMG i got actual goosebumps

i don't think anyone expected this, MAGE WARS  and not just academy? this is nuuts

hope we get a new vs or more content for all mages or the archmage or smth :c but i dont think we need another mode atm
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on December 28, 2019, 11:25:30 AM
Needless to say that was quite the interesting post, coupled by the fact that this has been his first post on the forums in the last 6 years. I suspect that with the Kickstarter project arriving in January and Tony having left a while ago, Arcane Wonders seems to be going through some sort of "restructuring" and it seems to be going for the better. It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out in the next couple of years.

I hope we can post an official announcement soon, but we are turning over a new leaf and not making promises we can't keep.

That sounds a lot like what has been said to Facebook comments the last 2-3 years.

We have some new blood helping with all our projects and Mage Wars is a part of this. I can't make any concrete statements other than to say what we are looking at is definitely bigger than another Lost Grimoire.

Either Mage Wars will be having a bunch of its remaining content released (Archmage, Alt. Forcemaster vs Witch, Lost Grimoire 2) with the teased art finally being put to use, or I suspect a Mage Wars 2 (perhaps via Kickstarter ?). If it is a big project as has been stated, then an 8 year old game will desperately require some shot of adrenaline in order to regain the relevance it had 5-6 years ago.

A Mage Wars 2 would be the perfect opportunity to start the brand fresh, with a more organized release structure and the opportunity to bring back players such as myself who enjoyed the game but who have stopped playing due to the game's age- a win-win on both sides. Also, the game could used more streamlined mechanics and with rules that don't lead to years of discussion due to confusion, which would promote a stronger community and tournament structure.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Freeborn42 on December 28, 2019, 11:45:55 AM
A MW 2.0 makes the most sense.

Another expansion that intros new mages or gives us some more alts would be fun for existing fans but it's hard to see why AW would decided to do that....now?

Backwards compatibility would be great but tbh a more streamlined game that has a better sense of itself and makes better sense of some of the mechanics that were added later on would actually be my preference.  Especially if it means I can finally get some friends and family to play the damn game with me!
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: kayofkayos on December 29, 2019, 07:01:08 AM
That is awesome news!
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: JarrodR on January 08, 2020, 07:36:56 AM
How technically difficult would backward compatibility be exactly?
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: edbass on January 20, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
SUPER excited for new Mage Wars stuff!
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: zot on January 20, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
i want backward compatibility. i do know that if i cannot use things i paid for already in a new mage wars release, i will be really mad and not be buying any new stuff. but that is just my opinion. i can understand some card changes and rules cleanup. i would think that is pretty easy to do. looking forward to further updates.

 
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: farkas1 on January 21, 2020, 04:33:48 PM
I’m all for backwards compatible.  I think it is possible but if some big things change such as cost for cards goes up or down or big sweeping changes it maybe rather difficult.   

  I understand outrage if the next version is not but if MW 2.0 is good and not compatible with 1.0  I may feel slightly disappointed but I would totally invest in the game if it is a great game.   

Things to consider for pro backwards compatible

1).   Newer cards such as dispel, dissolve if reprinted with different stats swap out old and new cards. Simple fix
2). Maybe fixing cards that are either too cost efficient (zombie brute) or underwhelming costed cards (earthquake).  Easy fix new cards replace the old
3).  Designers could go with a totally new mage designs or alternate mages with different abilities and allowing the old mages to be used as well
4). Also one thing that could be discussed is only allowing MW 2.0 cards in game store or convention tournaments.
        A) keep a new MW 2.0 community fresh and not feel oppressed by too much content. 
        B). If things are slightly not the same balance just removing MW 1.0 from competition. 
(Of course players or organizers could decide to do a rule variant allowing MW1 and 2 to happen for players who want the nostalgia of the older game).


Opposing the backwards compatibility

1). May spawn more creative outlets with freedom to not make MW exact clone ( could be good, could be bad)
2).  Also frees up the newer community to latch onto a brand new version without the pressure of being the completionist/highly competitive Or new plAyer who may feel overwhelmed by all the cards  and options from an older version
3). Adding polish new card backs, new art, tweak the rules to make the game slightly faster less complex in certain ways but keeping the complexity, competitive, version we know and love. 
4). Allow the creator to correct some mistakes withOut the chains of the original (even tho its a wonderful game)
 

I think we need to be a community open to changes.  MW 2.0 will most likely have changes and hopefully those changes do not upset the current community too bad.  I think there is room for improvement and with full support from AW with regular release cycles and keeping interest in the game growing and expanding it will be a great for expanding the community and allow new players to jump on board. 
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on January 22, 2020, 09:24:59 AM
Backwards compatibility is an interesting topic of discussion, but ultimately I just don't see the purpose in it. I find that asking something so drastic for a new game would be to restrict the creative freedom this new project would have. We don't know whether or not Arcane Wonders would like to re-do only parts of the game such as the board, combat or spell casting, or if they'll go for a complete overhaul of the entire game's systems. I really don't think that keeping Mage Wars 2.0 so similar to Mage Wars 1.0 in the name of backwards compatibility will be a good idea, considering how Arcane Wonders will want to expand their fanbase even if it means losing some of their old fans.

Ultimately, this small community will have to accept that Mage Wars will be re-done and different types of people will be swamping the community (I suppose that this forum will be gutted and replaced), whereas some old-time loyalists will be pushed aside. With the potential of the new Mage Wars being released via Kickstarter, I'm glad to see Arcane Wonders maturing and trying something new with their products; its refreshing considering how most of their recent releases weren't that good and were not breaking much ground in the board gaming community. I am expecting a far better release structure, coupled with a better support system that was basically non-existent with Mage Wars from today since it's inception. 
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: jacksmack on January 22, 2020, 12:48:14 PM
MW 2.0 because it’s “something bigger than a second lost Grimoire”?

Could it not (just) be another 2 mages release?
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on January 22, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
MW 2.0 because it’s “something bigger than a second lost Grimoire”?

Could it not (just) be another 2 mages release?

Interesting point. It could be, but if this ends up being the case then Arcane Wonders are really shooting themselves in the foot. Not to mention how little something like that would sell considering how most of the players are long gone.

If by some chance they release a Witch vs. Alt. Forcemaster expansion, it would be to milk out the potential profits that remain from this franchise. There is no other reason to support an 8 year old game with expansion content.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: JAM2099 on January 22, 2020, 09:56:29 PM
I'm sure whatever is going to happen is already in the works.  I just know that most new games like Keyforge, Transformers TCG etc don't have a big following in my area.  If I want other players then it has to be with my own family.  Original Mage Wars died off quickly despite my love for it.  (I honestly bought 2 of everything for Mage Wars.)  If they add to the game then I will continue to buy 2 of everything.  If they come out with a whole new edition and move on from the first then I will have to pass.  I don't see the game being revitalized, at least not in my area.  I do love the game and will continue to collect just for the collection aspect.  I have no one to play with though other than my own family and do not see that changing anytime in the future.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on January 23, 2020, 09:03:02 AM
If they come out with a whole new edition and move on from the first then I will have to pass.  I don't see the game being revitalized, at least not in my area.

Well, better taking a chance at having a new game with a large new playerbase, than just simply selling an expansion to a very few remaining amount of fans. If they change the game enough from it's first iteration, definitely they'll have new players coming into their reach.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: RobMurray on January 23, 2020, 10:51:26 AM
The game absolutely needs an overhaul. Just look at discord chat over the last 12+ hours. The best players in our community can't agree / confirm / iron out how card(s)work, both independently and in tandem. 

I've had the chance to play Mage Wars with a lot of guys in my gaming group. Everyone has their own quips about it, but the vast majority say:

1 - It takes too much time to build a spellbook
2 - Too many schools and card types (I.E - Incantations, Conjurations, Attack spells.)
3 - Most didn't like relying on the "luck of the dice".
4 - Phases were too complicated
5 - Overall consensus was there was just too much going on to try and remember everything

Now a lot of their complaints are what I personally love about the game. I see Mage Wars as two games in one. The first game is the mental part where I try to scheme up a tricky book, while the second game is me putting my creation to the test in the arena.

If the goal is to get the game in more peoples hands and on more tabletops, we need to find the middle ground between Academy and Arena.

Hell, if it was up to me I would just add some Star Wars IP to the game and march Darth Vader across the Arena.

Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: JAM2099 on January 23, 2020, 11:18:13 AM

I've had the chance to play Mage Wars with a lot of guys in my gaming group. Everyone has their own quips about it, but the vast majority say:

1 - It takes too much time to build a spellbook
2 - Too many schools and card types (I.E - Incantations, Conjurations, Attack spells.)
3 - Most didn't like relying on the "luck of the dice".
4 - Phases were too complicated
5 - Overall consensus was there was just too much going on to try and remember everything


1.  Building the spellbook takes too long?  That's the best part.  Besides, how many months do people spend hunting down the best cards to build their perfect MTG Deck.  Longer than it takes to build a spellbook.
2.  If we had less schools or card types, people would be asking for more.
3.  I think the dice eliminates having over powered cards.  Which is worse for a card.  Roll 5 dice or score 10 damage everytime.  Besides, it's magic, spells don't always go off as planned.
4.  My 8 year old played it and was able to hold his own against me.  I like how you only start out with your Mage and build up from there.  The game grows as you play.
5.  As I said in previous statement, Game grows as you play.  Once the steps are mastered they become second nature and besides, the steps are marked on the player boards. 

Academy was to be the simpler version and it didn't seem to catch on.  I love this game.  I want to see it succeed and do well but I believe Arcane wonders will have to have some real magic up their sleeves to fully resurrect this game.  (Pun intended.)
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: RobMurray on January 23, 2020, 01:32:20 PM
All good points, BUT, just by being a part of this forum our opinion's will be bias. We're all here because we love the game. (Or maybe its our stellar personalities :o )

If AW's objective is to streamline the game and make it more palatable for gamers as a whole, than we need to address the concerns of the majority.

Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: JAM2099 on January 23, 2020, 02:12:36 PM
Stellar personalities...has to be.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: wtcannonjr on January 25, 2020, 09:27:01 AM
All good points, BUT, just by being a part of this forum our opinion's will be bias. We're all here because we love the game. (Or maybe its our stellar personalities :o )

If AW's objective is to streamline the game and make it more palatable for gamers as a whole, than we need to address the concerns of the majority.
Do we know AW's objective for the game? Or, do we just know what our preferences are for the game?

With Foundations of Rome currently underway as Arcane Wonder's first ever Kickstarter game and 3,500+ backers at the moment it is possible that AW could develop and support future Mage Wars Arena using a Kickstarter approach rather than through the more costly retail distribution channels. Time will tell, but the opportunities exist for really engaging fans and players into the process of redeveloping the Mage Wars Arena game experience.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: RobMurray on January 27, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
At this point, all we have is speculation.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: DevilsVendetta on January 28, 2020, 07:28:12 PM
At this point, all we have is speculation.

I predict this is all we have for at least a year if not more.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: wmcastillo28 on February 10, 2020, 10:17:23 PM
Man, i hope they do something with it. Honestly, even if they decide not to, at least put it to rest. Say something like its no longer going to be supported or something so we stop holding on. I absolutely LOVE the game where I'm at and recently bought 3 more core sets for that moment someone is interested in it, i'll GIVE it to them if it keeps the game alive.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Arkdeniz on February 12, 2020, 02:11:26 AM
Ah, but speculation about what, if anything, AW will do for Mage Wars is the third major part of the game. There is spellbook design, actual play, and speculation...
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: RobMurray on February 12, 2020, 06:29:29 AM
You forgot the fourth part; crying about Pillar! ;D
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Kelanen on February 13, 2020, 06:41:49 AM
A Mage Wars 2 would be the perfect opportunity to start the brand fresh, with a more organized release structure and the opportunity to bring back players such as myself who enjoyed the game but who have stopped playing due to the game's age- a win-win on both sides. Also, the game could used more streamlined mechanics and with rules that don't lead to years of discussion due to confusion, which would promote a stronger community and tournament structure.
If MW 2.0 is the plan, then I'm out. I wouldn't buy any product not compatible with current Arena, which is in no need of streamlining or changing at all IMO.

The only thing that does need changing is the cost formula attached to various traits which causes lots of interesting but unviable cards to be churned out - but that's not a structural problem in the rules, it's a design issue, and fixed by better cards.

But honestly I don't see anything useful or likely in MW's future, despite the official words (and many before.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on February 24, 2020, 01:23:55 PM
A Mage Wars 2 would be the perfect opportunity to start the brand fresh, with a more organized release structure and the opportunity to bring back players such as myself who enjoyed the game but who have stopped playing due to the game's age- a win-win on both sides. Also, the game could used more streamlined mechanics and with rules that don't lead to years of discussion due to confusion, which would promote a stronger community and tournament structure.
If MW 2.0 is the plan, then I'm out. I wouldn't buy any product not compatible with current Arena, which is in no need of streamlining or changing at all IMO.

The only thing that does need changing is the cost formula attached to various traits which causes lots of interesting but unviable cards to be churned out - but that's not a structural problem in the rules, it's a design issue, and fixed by better cards.


I haven't checked on the Discord channel in over a year, but if my memory serves me correctly a lot of discussion came from the confusion regarding the powers and effects of various cards, as well as discussion regarding card errata. I expect that this sort of back and forth is still prevalent on the MW Discord.

Ironically, I think that this dialogue is the only thing keeping the community together. Nevertheless, if Arcane Wonders is not taking the fanbase for idiots and will actually release future Mage Wars content, then it would be better to start from scratch- constant discussion for years regarding card errata is ridiculous, and shouldn't be repeated again. And no offence to those asking for backwards compatibility or else you'll quit Arcane Wonders, but AW doesn't care about this small community- the last 4 years have been proof of that. It makes more sense for them (from a business standpoint) to attract 200-300 new customers, instead of trying to keep a small group of 10-20 people interested in their products.

But honestly I don't see anything useful or likely in MW's future, despite the official words (and many before).

Considering that the last message came from an employee of AW who hasn't posted here in nearly 7 years, I would say that this means more than if someone in charge of community relations had written that post.  I'm not confident either, but I'm pretty sure that there's a reason he's the one who posted.

On a side note: it speaks to the disaster that is Arcane Wonder's community engagement, when Scott Morris and Laddinfance leave and it's news, but Tony leaves and the members of the community either have no idea it happened or don't even care. Good riddance.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Enti on February 25, 2020, 12:58:01 AM
*Message has been removed by moderators due to multiple reports of abusive behavior*
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on February 25, 2020, 06:56:38 AM

I haven't checked on the Discord channel in over a year, but


yeah, we can tell how well informed your opinion is.


So then tell me, has anything changed? You expect me to believe that this community has evolved, during the last year, into something other than card discussions and small tournament organizations?

 


 It makes more sense for them (from a business standpoint) to attract 200-300 new customers, instead of trying to keep a small group of 10-20 people interested in their products.


How condescending and utterly stupid this sentence is (facepalm)



I don't understand your hatred but please - do us and yourself a favor - leave this forum if the only thing you have to contribute are posts like these.

Wow, great comment! Another reason why this forum is filled with great discussion!

Get a grip on yourself. Arcane Wonders is a business and will do as they please, even though their decision may end up upsetting a few people. If they can get more customers in their reach by re-doing most of the gameplay that is Mage Wars Arena, then they'll do it.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: BigNic on February 25, 2020, 09:46:31 AM

I haven't checked on the Discord channel in over a year, but


yeah, we can tell how well informed your opinion is.


 It makes more sense for them (from a business standpoint) to attract 200-300 new customers, instead of trying to keep a small group of 10-20 people interested in their products.


How condescending and utterly stupid this sentence is (facepalm)



I don't understand your hatred but please - do us and yourself a favor - leave this forum if the only thing you have to contribute are posts like these.

I like
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: farkas1 on February 25, 2020, 05:12:45 PM
I will make a few statements that I hope seem to settle the crowd. 

1) please don’t bash the community.  Even if it is relatively small community that “posts”, not every player posts on this site that enjoys the game or discord in fact.  Not everyone is like us who enjoy this aspect for the game.  Discussing, arguing, giving feedback, and criticism is small portion of the group. 

2) lots of players have played and gone is it a problem?   

It is going to happen to any game, I think with more support from the company and a better release schedule it would have kept players invested for a longer period.  Players are still meeting and competing at conventions.  The player base has dropped, but not a ton.  We are getting new players interested still in the great game at every event, and the community could grow if players stay invested. 

3). Should arcane wonders do a better job in supporting their games?

Yea I would say there is always a need for growth.  A more steady model of releases would be helpful with a game like this. 

4). Am I happy with the product?

  I love this game and feel with or without expansions I am happy with the current product. 

5) Now is everything perfect with this game? 

No.  minor tweaks could make the game better and a competitively better experience . I will make a big post about the improvements I would like to see in the future.

6).  Do I hope for more content and maybe a new edition? 

Yea I think some reworking will do wonders and it would spark more interest from new players. 

7) could the new edition get the same love as the original?

 I think it could if done right. Change is always scary and  any tweaks to the system will ruffle feathers. 

8). Being released in 2012 how often do games that are collectible stay successful in the market? 

I would say a five year period is about where card games peak until either a new edition or big update is needed to spark excitement again.  This game is 8 years old and it time to put some new polish on it and give an overhaul to generate the excitement again. 

9). Will you play the original edition? 

It Depends on how get 2.0 is.  If it sucks, original will always be the go to version I play on a regular basis.  But if 2nd edition is good and dare I say better I am totally committed  to play the better game.  On if there is two groups I will play both.

10).  If the new edition is backwards compatible will it hinder the new edition or help? 

This one question, I could say yes and no.  I lean towards yes it would hinder the creative process and at worst scare people off of the game who may see the current card pool as too overwhelming. Sometimes games need a reset, and I feel it is in need of one to get to the next evolution.

I would like to think that arcane wonders could handle backwards compatibility but I think for any company it would take some creativity and a way of marketing 2.0 to pull it off correctly. 


Closing
In any case someone is going to complain about something.  Just don’t make general statements about the people and community involved especially if somewhat untrue.  It is ok to disagree and debate.  We do that on discord all the time and it is healthy to not agree with everyone.  What is not healthy is being toxic and bashing a game or its player base without providing ways for improving.  Let’s just be more civil to one another it is just a game.  And have fun with whatever you choose to make a gaming priority in life. 
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: DaveW on February 25, 2020, 08:48:11 PM
discord?

I found out how to sign up for it, but I don't see a thing there related to MW.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: zot on February 25, 2020, 11:30:50 PM
I will get you the link to it. but it expires after a short time. let me know and I can email it to you some time soon and you can use it to get into the mw community right then.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: RobMurray on February 26, 2020, 07:02:49 AM
I sent you another link Dave.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Coshade on February 26, 2020, 07:59:08 AM
Hey there,

Just wanted to post a link to the discord. A lot of members on this community board chat daily here. For anyone that does not use Discord - it's more of a chat room compared to a message board.

Link to MW Discord --> https://discord.gg/8uS7mxh
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: DaveW on February 27, 2020, 08:39:10 PM
thanks everyone for your help... I got in now.

Dave
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: wtcannonjr on March 04, 2020, 06:18:17 AM
What happens when you put a Forcemaster, a Priest, and a Priestess into a Chat Room?   - Discord...  :)
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: RobMurray on March 04, 2020, 09:05:40 AM
If it wasn't so expensive, I would love to see an online version for 2.0. (Excluding phones) I think playing online,across multiple platforms, would be ideal for attracting new players.

Picture the ability to zoom out and view the arena overhead style like normal, but when its time to action your creatures you could change the POV and zoom down into the zone you're in.

OCTGN is great, but imagine what we / they / us could do if we had a dedicated team of developers :)

Going online would also take care of all the little annoying aspects of the game. Upkeep, Channeling, Packing / Unpacking. A tutorial could be added to help new players learn incrementally instead of the typical "Here's a book, godspeed".

MOST importantly we could finally add a campaign / solo mode where you could start as an Academy Mage and work your way towards becoming a full fledged Arena Mage!

Wishful thinking I know, but at this point its all we have anyways :)
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: zot on March 04, 2020, 06:58:20 PM
What happens when you put a Forcemaster, a Priest, and a Priestess into a Chat Room?   - Discord...  :)

very funny. 8)
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Thessial on March 07, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Hello again folks,

So I am excited that I can finally share a little bit more. More importantly, I want to hear from you. We are in the initial stages of developing a new version. Certainly it is true that we want to broaden the player base with this, but we also want to have a game that gives that Mage Wars "feel". This means some things will be new, but backwards compatibility is a significant part of our discussions. Certainly we want to create some extended utility of the products that you already own, but as some have noted, excessive backwards compatibility can create design constraints that lead to unintended consequences and limitations.

On another front, the design stage of this project is being turned over to a committee of knowledgeable individuals with extensive experience in both Mage Wars and game design. This is different from previous Mage Wars as there was only ever one person driving the primary energy. The expectation is that this will lead to a better stream of products produced more regularly.

I hope all of this reaches you as positive information. Everything design-wise is still a possibility and we want to narrow much of this down in the next few months. All of this being said we are still looking at the master time tables and as we have better estimates, we will share them. It all depends how quickly we find that design that leads to the best version of Mage Wars that we can possibly make.

Finally, I said I wanted to hear from you and I am serious. Attached is a survey link from the design committee that met for the first time last week. Please be open minded. Nothing in it is written in stone, but we do want to make sure that we hear from those of you that have been around the Mage Wars block for a while. Please feel free to share the link with others that you know would be interested.

https://s.surveyplanet.com/_LM_2-WT

Thank you again for reading this. I hope we can bring something amazing to you.

Thessial

 
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: SirJasonCrage on March 08, 2020, 04:23:50 AM
Wrote you half a novel on the survey, hope someone's gonna get paid to read through it all  ;D

Thanks for putting all that effort into the game. I think I can speak for the whole community when I say it means a lot to us.

Please don't forget this is a niche game for a fantasy-experienced playerbase. I know it's tempting to "branch out" and capture more casual players, but this is the wrong game to do it with.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: RobMurray on March 09, 2020, 10:26:23 AM
This is fantastic news Thessial.

Survey completed!
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Boocheck on March 09, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
I will definetly do the survey! MW was and still is in TOP 5 games that defines me as a player :)
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Jeffman on March 10, 2020, 04:47:06 AM
Filled in the survey
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Karadox on March 11, 2020, 09:53:42 AM
It is probably the right step to start over, but I will take a hard look at it before I think bout to invest any more money. it will be difficult to convert it so that the old cards can still be used. I just have too much money invested in the Old Mage Wars ... not as much as in magic the gathering, but you can play them together with new cards and some are worth a lot of money.
Too much went wrong in communicating with us customers.
I love Mage Wars as a game but at the moment I don't think I Would Buy anything new.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: fas723 on March 15, 2020, 06:16:56 PM
Survey made.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Kelanen on March 16, 2020, 10:51:35 AM
So I am excited that I can finally share a little bit more. More importantly, I want to hear from you. We are in the initial stages of developing a new version. Certainly it is true that we want to broaden the player base with this, but we also want to have a game that gives that Mage Wars "feel". This means some things will be new, but backwards compatibility is a significant part of our discussions. Certainly we want to create some extended utility of the products that you already own, but as some have noted, excessive backwards compatibility can create design constraints that lead to unintended consequences and limitations.
That all sounds terrible to me - I'm out. I play a few games every week, and the game just is fine (excellent even), there are only two problems - not enough content, and too much weak content (the costing formulae are wrong in several areas, leading to overcosted cards). Anything less than 100% backwards compatibility makes the exercise pointless IMO (at least for me, and what I want from the game).

Any amount of change you could credibly call a new edition is too much (something on the scale of 4th printing/Arena is fine), there is no need for anything beyond a few errata (maybe a lot with cost reductions), a few rulings being updated and added, and a lot more content. I realise the survey was blue-sky brainstorming, but most of those options? Yeuk... I don't want another 'streamlined' and dumbed down version od anything thanks, nor do I want different ways to play, different arenas, different anything - it's not broke (but it will never be a roaring commercial success whatever). I don't want minis, or online and I certainly don't want anything less complex or shorter (more complex and longer and we can talk, but that survey was horribly biased). I realise that doesn't play to wanting to leverage a shiny new edition for cash, but as opined a while back, this future is much worse than leaving it dead.

None of this is helped by the fact that whilst Mage Wars is my #1 game, I have no faith or loyalty to AW at all - I've got playtest and development credits with lots of games and companies, but I've never tested for such a shambles as AW. As a consumer, it's just worse they make massive misstep over massive misstep... Produce more Arena content, and I'll buy it (if it's not monk garbage, etc), but ask me to set aside my current (and considerable) investment in something that's great despite AW, and then invest in something new from them? No thanks.

Would you please have me removed from the PlayTesting list - I want nothing to do with this direction of travel, it's the wrong solution to the wrong problem as far as I am concerned. Playtesting was largely a waste of time anyway - it was all focused on dumbed down for Academy, the problems were rarely listened to, and bigger problems inserted by fiat post-playtesting anyway...
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: zot on March 16, 2020, 08:20:25 PM
i agree that the survey was biased towards a specific result. trying to make this new version somewhere between academy and arena. wow that would suck so much.  I think in the end they will pretty much alienate most everyone and hope to get completely new players. but the survey being biased they will get results they are expecting or hoping to get.

it is also clear there is demand out there for more arena product. people only bought academy because that was the only thing printed and it was valid in arena. for completeness in arena you had to get 2 copies of each academy release.

personally I would like to see some rules cleanup. some fixes to anomalies in the game that need clarification or resolution. perhaps fix a few broken undercosted cards. and if you have time some of the overcosted cards. then release a new core set of 4 mages for arena.

alt forcemaster, alt wizard, arena elementalist, arena (monk or some other mage).

and then release a couple mages every 9 months or so. seems like it would be super easy to get this sort of thing into print quickly.

then if you want to release something else in the same universe along the bias shown by the survey it would be a completely different game. if that is what you want then do so, but have no illusions about it being mage wars and do not market it as such if there is no backwards compatibility. I would be really mad if I bought something like mw2.0 expecting to be able to use and leverage the money I had already spent on this awesome game only to find out I cannot (and I do not mean zero % but even 10 or 20% or less backwards would be aggravating). if it is backwards compatible it needs to more or less closer to 100%. but that is just my opinion of course.

some people want new things and that is fine, just make a new game and give the demand that is out there for arena something too. no reason why you cannot do both. keep making arena products and whatever new shiny thing aw wants to put out.



 

Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: DaveW on March 16, 2020, 10:09:43 PM
I already completed the survey, but got to thinking about something tonight that I thought that I'd post as a kind-of addendum to it.

I am wondering whether a decent approach might be to create a complete, cleaned-up rulebook... and add a section of "optional" or "advanced" rules. These optional rules might include things like customized Mage design, reduction in list of conditions, or whatever you want. That way those who would want to play the game as it currently is simply would not use the additional rules, and others could play in other, equally valid and balanced, company approved, formats.

Each tournament head judge would choose which set of options (if any) to use at a con, but I don't think that that would be a serious issue. It might even be better that way if the community changes its collective mind over time about which set of options it likes best... tournament standards would just change over time with it.

Please don't hate me too much for suggesting this :)
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Knabbmaster on March 17, 2020, 03:39:24 AM
i agree that the survey was biased towards a specific result. trying to make this new version somewhere between academy and arena. wow that would suck so much.  I think in the end they will pretty much alienate most everyone and hope to get completely new players. but the survey being biased they will get results they are expecting or hoping to get.


How was it biased? I mean at the very end they asked about keywords and the phase system but aside from that I don't really get how you drew that conclusion. They even asked about adding costumization to mages or adding benefits for standing in the centre zones which would make the game even more complex.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: farkas1 on March 18, 2020, 12:33:41 AM
Yea I think change is just too scary for some. I wish we could go back to more arena expansions but AW has for some reason abandoned It.  I think if we could take the best of everything and almost have a buffet of all the content with playing MW original or MW new edition, or both together it would get the love from past, current, and hopefully a new audience. 

I don’t feel the questions were biased.  It basically gave everyone the opportunity to say which side with either no change, some change, or more changes.  I thought the survey was informative and addresses issues most players have presented to the forums.  Is AW perfect, no but I think for the future of the game, it needs a new version.  Most games don’t stay at 1.0 and survive. 

That said I would be happy to have a new core like Zot mentioned that just addressed some keyword issues and add nothing more but more mages.  I would buy it and it could still have a newness that tweaks the rules a tiny bit and have an updated ruleset to play with the original content.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: ThisIsDeutch on March 18, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
I realise that doesn't play to wanting to leverage a shiny new edition for cash, but as opined a while back, this future is much worse than leaving it dead.

When you state that this is worse than leaving it dead, through what perspective are you talking about? Through your perspective as a player, or through Arcane Wonders as a company?


Playtesting was largely a waste of time anyway - it was all focused on dumbed down for Academy, the problems were rarely listened to, and bigger problems inserted by fiat post-playtesting anyway...


I think this speaks more about a problem with Arcane Wonders instead of Mage Wars. Not sure if their adoption of Kickstarter as a selling platform is going to change anything, but perhaps it might get them to interact with their fanbase a lot more than previously? They can try to promote some new form of the Ambassadors program for all their games, meaning it won't be for just 1 singular game and would therefore be supported by Arcane Wonders instead of ignored.

it is also clear there is demand out there for more arena product. people only bought academy because that was the only thing printed and it was valid in arena. for completeness in arena you had to get 2 copies of each academy release.

personally I would like to see some rules cleanup. some fixes to anomalies in the game that need clarification or resolution. perhaps fix a few broken undercosted cards. and if you have time some of the overcosted cards.

You've hit the nail on the head: people bought academy in order to supplement Arena content. I think the inclusion of Frost spells in Academy was another sign of Arcane Wonders just no longer interested in releasing Arena content and releasing Academy expansions in order to "hit two birds with one stone".

I also think that this is what Mage Wars needs the most: a rule cleanup. All that you've said (rule cleanup, fix cards) could help remove the plague of card errata discussion that has been affecting this community for the last 6 years.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: wtcannonjr on March 18, 2020, 05:56:56 PM
Survey completed.

Would suggest someone official at Arcane Wonders post a message with the survey link and news on BoardGameGeek website in Mage Wars Arena page.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Arkdeniz on March 19, 2020, 03:41:37 AM
Well, I for one liked the survey and was pleased that AW asked for our input and happy to see the range of questions put in it.

I think MW2 has an opportunity to really consider some of what I see as the central weaknesses to an otherwise awesome game. In particular (and here I spruik my wares), an opportunity to embrace the core premise of the game: "A Game of Duelling Mages", through:
- opening up metamagic spells (the 'toolbox') to all schools
- making all summoned creatures temporary spells. Get rid of the 'my army is bigger than your army, and I will win through more actions' effect.

So more games of movement and spell and counterspell, rather than guarding and spawnpoint churn.

That was my 2c.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: JAM2099 on March 19, 2020, 08:39:11 PM
Giving it a second thought, when most games come out with a second edition or version 2 of a game, the previous version is retired and the new version is the new kid on the block.  Cases in point, all versions of D&D (old versions are still played though), Arkham Horror 3rd Edition (I have everything for previous which is still playable so no desire for the 3rd), Twilight Imperium 4th Edition just came out a year or so ago, Stonghold 2nd edition (improved on the first), Game of Thrones LCG came out with 2nd edition, Kingsburg Second Edition ( I have the first which I personally think is better than the second.) 

Sure, it would be nice to see Mage Wars Arena continue to have new content but with the way the gaming community works, I don't see that happening at this point.  It is more likely to see an all new, all fresh Mage Wars 2.  Call an end to Mage Wars Arena and those who have everything can consider their set complete.  (I wold like to see 1 more Arena expansion to close the deal possibly Arena Elementalist vs Arena Monk.)  Let the new game bring on a new group with new experiences and hope Arcane Wonders have learned from the previous game and make it a success. 

Happy Gaming Ya'll!
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: keejchen on April 05, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
In the interest of keeping the discussion going, Juli and I did a stream on MW2.0. Check it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K975ALpWuw
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: DaveW on April 05, 2020, 10:27:31 AM
Almost four hours?! I don't know if I am going to make it through... but I'll try.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: keejchen on April 05, 2020, 10:42:17 AM
I think we both had a lot on our minds. But it's not like an obligatory thing to watch ;)

I put some timestamps in the description, so you can jump to subjects that interest you the most.
Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Bjorne on April 06, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
I listened to parts. Thanks for posting the discussion!

I definitely think gradual change of the meta is possible in physical card games. (I like digital as a complement, but I LOVE to touch cardboard and sit face to face) I have played both Game of Thrones LCG and Netrunner LCG by Fantasy Flight and they use a very elegant way to do this by regularly publishing a list of 'restricted' cards. In a deck you may use only one restricted card, you can still use several copies of that card but you cannot use another different restricted card in the same deck. This makes it easy to break up very efficient card combinations. One could then put for exampel Pillar of Righteous Flame + Archers or something (I'm not into the game enough to know exactly what cards are best to combo with the Pillar, just an example) on the restricted list and people would have to chose one or the other. You would preferably have a bunch of restricted cards for every Mage that is currently considered too good, and very few for the Mages that are underpowered at the time. Of course, every Mage can use every card, but you get the idea. It is a bit similar to your ban-list idea but I think it leaves more choice in the hands of the players. If you really like your Pillar or whatever, you can still use it but you might need to tweak the rest of the deck.

I think it is a very good way of doing it since you do not really change the in-game effects of the cards, you only change the way decks can be built. In FFGs case they updated these lists like every second or third moth and each time they did the meta opened up for new possiblities. I liked it a lot. Kept the game fresh even in periods where not a lot of cards were coming out.

In Mage Wars you could even take it one step further and instead say that all cards on the restricted list have their spell point cost doubled, or something like that. But the key is changes at the level of deckbuilding, not in-game, which makes playing with 'restricted' cards as easy as playing with non-restricted since the in-game printed info stays the same.

I also think one-off erratas/faqs on some cards, like what they did with wizards tower is perfectly fine. Some card are just design misstakes that need to be tweaked. Players can deal with it if they are competitive, and if they are not, they can just ignore the faq and play casual witht the cards as written.

 

Title: Re: MW arena update 2020
Post by: Jeffman on April 25, 2020, 09:57:36 AM
Any update yet?