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Messages - Sailor Vulcan

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Alternative Play / Re: OCTGN - Academy Mages
« on: December 06, 2017, 04:26:59 PM »
You should be able to get the correct image pack from the link in this thread, right?

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Alternative Play / Re: OCTGN - Academy Mages
« on: December 06, 2017, 11:43:49 AM »
Tomb Guardian is incorrect on OCTGN - it's the last playtest version, not the final printed version...
What is the difference between them? I didn't notice that.

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Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Ghoulish Force Constructs Opening
« on: December 06, 2017, 09:42:53 AM »
I suspect that the fact that force constructs are quick cast spells with dissipate are the whole reason this deck works at all. It's an ingenious idea though and I'd love to hear how it works out for you.

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General Discussion / Re: Casual Mage Wars Hangout - Taking Requests!
« on: December 03, 2017, 09:14:57 AM »
Where? Online or offline? If you're talking about the Discord Channel being online isn't the same thing as being available for a game, and I'm pretty sure the number of people on there currently available for a game is probably closer to 3 or 4, not 10.

That being said, I want to see something really interesting or unique. I recommend playing an arena match on my alternate map, Road of Battle. (Secret passages only connect to their opposites, not their adjacents.)

General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: December 01, 2017, 10:46:08 AM »
And to piggyback off of what Zuberi is saying academy cards are not to be overlooked or even be second Tier.  I will argue that they have made and will continue to change the meta of the game.  If you have not used or tried them out you are also missing out on more diverse builds.  No not every card will be cost effective for arena but that is also bc arena has been out longer than academy and it is catching up. 

Glad to hear from Tony and curious of more announcements about MW. 

The sky is not falling and it never was.  I hope players can be satisfied and keep supporting the game, because it is the best game out in the market even if it is not as popular as others. 

Again it starts with us the players and fans to keep supporting, promoting, and helping others learn the game.  Keep trying to establish a community in your local game stores and I hope it flourishes and you have some MW partners to play the game Sailor. 

as a playtester I can not comment on future development  but just know the new sets will not disappoint Karadox.  :D
Then why has the online community become almost a ghost town? Why have the majority of regular mage wars players on octgn who used to be active in this community left? I already said that the release schedule for expansions is NOT the problem. I didn't say that the game has died already, and I didn't say that it's going to die. But the online community does seem to be gradually shrinking to the point where it is not feasible to play it online as a hobby, and if not for arcane duels the online community would likely shrink much faster. Usually the community is more active around the holidays, not less, right? Unlike now. Or am I just remembering wrong?

Maybe the game will make a comeback somehow, and we will end up with levels of activity and engagement in this community like we had in 2013. I don't think the forums or octgn have ever been as active since that year. Used to be that I could often find five or even ten or more people available for online games of Mage Wars at a time. Now it's a lot harder to find even one or two at a time. There's never more than two games of Mage Wars being played online at the same time any more, and usually it's not even that many. I expect that we are unlikely to have any team games online ever again unless we have an official arcane duels event for them.

Personally, I really hope that soon as Arcane wonders gets back from Dice Tower con, that they tell us exactly what they plan to do to deal with these issues. I would like very much to keep Mage Wars as my main gaming Hobby, but I am strongly considering switching to something else and making mage wars something I only play on very rare occasion when I actually have someone to play it against.

The fact that AW is not selling the license tells me that either they're succumbing to sunk cost fallacy, or that they have a plan for dealing with these issues, or that their dice tower essentials line has been successful enough that they don't mind what's been happening to the mage wars community. Maybe a smaller community of less frequent mage wars players is more manageable for them or something, I don't know.

I honestly don't know what they're thinking or what they're planning to do about these issues if anything. That information is kinda important for me to decide whether to get into a different game as my replacement main gaming hobby or not.

Now that I think about it since a lot of people will be going home for the holidays (I live in a University city), there might be some people left who might not have anything to do. I'll call my FLGS to ask them if they're open over the break.

Maybe I can do some demos.

General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 30, 2017, 09:52:46 PM »
Sailor jeez dude! You know Sharkey is active military right? He's not even in the country right now. And refunds dude? For real? I can buy a toaster and then return it cuz i dont make any toast with it. I get where you're coming from but you gotta calm down a bit man. Its gonna be alright.

Sorry for feeling too strongly about this, I guess? I don't think I overstated a single thing in my post. Everything I said in it is entirely accurate as far as I know. I know that sharkbait is currently out of state. Forgot that he is on active military duty right now. Has he been on active military duty for about the past couple of years though? I didn't think he was. I'm not saying that it's his fault that he isn't able to help with this, just that he isn't able to help with this and he shouldn't say he's going to do something if he's not actually going to do it. He's been saying that he would get around to this for about a couple of years now I think, and he never did. This isn't a matter of me being simply impatient, this is me giving up on things actually happening and being kind of fed up that he kept saying he was going to when he clearly isn't going to. If I sincerely believed earlier that a offline mage wars playgroup in an FLGS in my area was probably never going to happen, as I believe now, then I would not have spent so much money on mage wars products and perhaps not any money at all. Sharkbait telling me that he'll help build the community here eventually made me think that it was actually going to happen eventually, so I continued buying mage wars products.

And why exactly do you think that wishing I could get a refund is an overreaction? I honestly think that Arcane Wonders has dropped the ball on this game franchise and their mishandling of things in particular have made all of my mage wars purchases to be entirely worthless outside of cons. And I invested a lot of money on my mage wars collection and I've invested a lot of time and emotional energy into this community. I think I have every right to be upset about this, and I don't think I'm overreacting. The only reasons I'm not requesting a refund yet are 1. I think it's rather unlikely they'll be able to pay me back for it because they're such a small company and  2. I'm hoping they'll sell the franchise to another company that can handle it better, in which case I might actually be able to play it with people offline outside of cons. Although that is likely to be wishful thinking on my part.

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General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 30, 2017, 04:27:18 PM »
To be honest, even though I said that I've been playing since 2013, the truth is that in the entire five years I've been playing, I've only played maybe two or three full games of arena offline outside of conventions. Every other time I played mage wars was either at a convention or on OCTGN. I've honestly tried to build the community here, but I've never had enough organizational skills nor regularity in my schedule to devote a couple of hours at the same time every week to promoting Mage Wars at an FLGS. The only other mage wars player who lives in my area is sharkbait, and although he said that he would get around to it eventually, that was a couple years ago and I've asked him several more times since then and he's still too busy and I kinda doubt at this point that he's ever actually going to start building the community here. And I honestly don't think I can do it on my own, if at all.

Arcane Wonders ambassadors are supposed to have a rewards system where they get extra credit in the online store for the amount of time they spend promoting arcane wonders products.

For almost the entire time I've been an arcane wonders ambassador in the last several years, this system has been temporarily unavailable. They said that they intended to bring it back once the new website was put up, that took a really long time and now they have had the website up for months and they still haven't brought the ambassador rewards system back. To be honest I don't think they are EVER going to bring it back, even if they think that they will eventually.

The fact is that there has been a mass exodus of players leaving this community over time, and that has drastically shrunken the online community to the point where it's practically a ghost town, arcane wonders has mishandled their marketing and become less engaged with the playerbase as it has gotten smaller and less active and they have become swamped with work that they have now been behind on for at least all year. While some places have managed to form lasting active mage wars communities, I suspect that they are not typical, and that there was a window of opportunity to form such communities at some point in the past and that said window has now passed.

I love mage wars, it is my favorite game ever. The fact that the online community has shrunken so much that I can't really play it as a hobby anymore makes me feel really horrible. I've put so much of myself into this game franchise and this community and for what? I'm going to probably have a mage wars shaped hole in my heart for the rest of my life. I feel like I wasted a bunch of money on mage wars products that I have never and will never be able to use outside of conventions, and I honestly feel like Arcane Wonders has dropped the ball with this game franchise. A part of me is strongly tempted to demand a refund, if not for all of the mage wars products that I have wasted my money on then at least a refund for the time I spent promoting their product which should have gotten me credit in their online store like they had promised. I'm trying really hard not to get angry and depressed about this.

A part of me wishes that I were the person in charge of arcane wonders, because that way I would be able to sell the mage wars franchise to a company that is better equipped to handle it, that way I would actually be able to keep playing the game as a hobby and not just at conventions or the increasingly rare occasion where there is someone to play against online. I urge Arcane Wonders to find another company which they can entrust to carry on the mage wars franchise in their place, a company that is better equipped to handle the task, which can bring out its full potential and make it really shine. And I urge them to start looking for such a company NOW while they are still afloat and still have time to look through all their options, before the playerbase shrinks any more than it already has.

To be honest I'm not confident that they are even actually paying any attention to this thread. I sent them a message through their online form requesting that they make a priority of looking at it, but I'm not sure if they got it. I hope they respond soon, even  it's just to say something like "we understand your concerns and we still care about our customers and we will post a more comprehensive response later". I think I'm also going to message them on facebook, summarizing the main points here with a link to the thread.

General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 30, 2017, 11:58:49 AM »
What best aspects of ccgs does arena use which you are talking about? Arena is basically just a minis game that uses cards instead of minis. If you switched all the  cards for minis and put all the card text in the rulebook instead it would be the same game  just harder to learn and more expensive. And it isn't merely "like" a lcg, Arena for all intents and purposes IS an lcg, but they don't call it that because FFG copyrighted the name of that distribution model, which is bs and I don't understand how that's even legal for them to do but whatever.

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General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 30, 2017, 06:54:03 AM »
Another thing I would like to say is that I think arcane wonders DOES care about their fan base. I've interacted with them before at cons as well as online, they've been very accommodating about sending replacement parts when someone complains about a missing or damaged game piece etc., when they realized the wizard was unbalanced and couldn't be rebalanced with new card releases they recognized that and errata'd him. In the past when people noticed problems in the rules they would listen and make a ruling. (Although nowadays it seems like zuberi is doing a lot of that for them using his superb and comprehensive understanding of the rules as intended. If zuberi says something about the rules, it's strong evidence of AW's intent with those rules.)

They do care about their fan base, they probably just don't have much time to talk to us because they have too much work to do. Like I said earlier, they're a very small company and they bit off more than they could chew.

I hope they are reading this thread, in particular my responses lol. I would really like it if they gave us some sign that they were still listening to us, since their engagement with the community has been almost non-existent lately. Although considering how much is probably on their plate, I'm not sure how likely they are to make reading this particular thread a priority, especially since there is a "Mage Wars is dead or dying" thread every year.

It's like the boy who cried wolf. By the time the wolf actually becomes close enough to threaten you, people don't believe you anymore.

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General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 30, 2017, 06:22:57 AM »
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but there are minis games that are just as long and complex as mage wars arena which have been a lot more successful, right?

for sure, but minis players often love the mini (paint it, admire it, put it near theire bed,...), the same game withe paper cards doesn't target the same players.

I find it a bit strange and kind of annoying that people here seem to be ignoring almost everything I've said in this thread so far. I feel like I've raised a lot of valid points and put a lot of thought into my responses, and then people start talking about tomato throwing. I had to send a pm asking if the tomato throwing comment applied to any of what I wrote in this thread and I was told it didn't.

You are acting like this is an entirely new point that I just raised, but it isn't. Scroll up or look at earlier pages in this thread and you will see that I already said that they should have targeted arena towards a demographic of *minis players who were burnt out on collectible minis games and wanted to try something less expensive*. As for the painting minis thing, Arcane wonders probably should have allowed custom-mage art cards, or at least mage art cards that can be colored in, as well as a greater variety of card sleeves. Releasing more spellbook binders and other merchandise that can be used to customize one's collection such as the status boards was a step in the right direction I think.
And not all minis gamers are in it for the painting. Some just want to play.

General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 30, 2017, 05:50:14 AM »
As far addressing Bryan or AW I propose someone write a letter stating our concerns and everybody from past and present sign it so that we could be heard.  I don't want to be in charge of this letter but I do ask it will be respectful and polite in our grievances.  This will A) look more professional and B) be something we can all support hopefully and not carry a negative division in our community.   This may take a few edits for everyone to agree on but if written this way it should help. 
I would sign the letter.

Another issue from my perspective is the focus is very much on Academy, not Area, and Academy is of only very limited help to Arena. It does something, but not enough. AW believes Academy is the right focus from a marketing perspective right now, and from a business perspective (smaller sets, higher profit, more causal and thus wider audience) I think they are probably right. Sadly. It's very galling, that given the resources AW has to work with, they probably are making the right commercial decisions for the company. Which is to let Arena languish with occasional love. It missed the boat (not sure it was ever possible in truth) on a big ticket partnership 5-6 years back, and it is where it is.
that's a very sad point of view... but I'm affraid it's right.
Arena will never be a best seller: to complicate, to long. We can't reproach AW to want to make monney! I don't like academy (to simple, to short), but I'm sure it has more chance to sell than arena.
We allready have enough cards to create a lot of fun spellbooks, but I hope they'll continue to edit new sets every 2 or 3 years to arouse the interest and give me the plesure of a few more games.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but there are minis games that are just as long and complex as mage wars arena which have been a lot more successful, right?

As for writing a letter, that is pointless. They probably are already aware that the forums have been getting less active and the game less popular. I'm pretty sure they still pay attention to what their customers say on their forums, and if they don't why would you expect them to respond to a letter?

Mage Wars isn't dead, and it isn't necessarily dying per se. At least not yet, I think. But the online community has become kind of a ghost town, and I think the majority of the active players have either left or become significantly less active over time.

General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 29, 2017, 03:20:18 PM »
What would the community look like today if academy were first produced?
I had the same thought before. I think the community probably would be bigger if Academy had been made before Arena. People might have seen Arena as Academy taken up to 11, rather than seeing Academy as Arena lite.

The other problem I see is that Arena was marketed as being for both cardgamers and minis gamers, when it probably would have appealed more to minis gamers than card gamers. To be honest, I think Mage Wars Arena could in theory have gone the minis route full stop, by replacing all the cards with minis and putting all the card text in the rule book instead. It would have basically been the same game, except a lot harder to learn and a lot more expensive.

I think maybe Arena should have been targeted towards a demographic of minis players who wanted to try something less expensive after being burnt out on collectible minis games. Academy is the game they should have targeted towards the card gamer demographic originally, NOT Arena. When I tell people about Arena I tell them that it's basically a minis game that uses cards instead of minis. None of that "combines the best aspects of card games and..." bs.

I can't help noticing also that the way they marketed Arena and Academy is a bit off the mark and maybe even a bit misleading. Mage Wars overall is an extremely modular fantasy combat system. You can basically have any sort of awesome mage duel you want with it. And yet they marketed Arena as "the customizable strategy game of dueling mages" which doesn't at all focus on what is unique and good about Arena or even about Mage Wars itself. It is an extremely generic description that doesn't say anything about what makes Mage Wars stand apart from other magical dueling game franchises.

And as for Academy, they ended up marketing it as "the stand-alone game set in the Mage Wars Universe". This description is entirely unhelpful because 1. There's barely any story material available in the Mage Wars universe, so basically no one, and especially no potential new player, knows or cares about it taking place in the Mage Wars Universe, and 2. All games are considered standalone by default unless people have reason to believe otherwise. If it's really stand-alone then you shouldn't need to actually say that because players will be able to see it for themselves. So saying that it's stand-alone is unhelpful at best and makes people think you're trying to make them think it's more stand-alone than it is at worst.

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Rules Discussion / Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« on: November 29, 2017, 12:05:39 PM »
Thanks, this was very helpful

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Rules Discussion / Re: Equipping a Weapon while having Shield and Wand
« on: November 28, 2017, 01:09:13 PM »
I would like to know the answer to this question as well. Zuberi?

Also SirJason, would you happen to be talking about the game you played against me about a month or two ago on octgn?

I'm not sure why you thought I'm a girl lol. My username on octgn is henry_ketchup and Henry is a guy's name.

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General Discussion / Re: The future of Mage Wars
« on: November 28, 2017, 12:54:11 PM »
I agree that activity on the forums has drastically decreased over time and a ton of people who used to be really into the game have left. In fact I would say that the majority of competitive Mage Wars players that we've had in this community over the past few years have already left.

I totally agree, this forum is basically a ghost town at the moment.

I don't think the slow release schedule is the problem. Mage Wars has a very large amount of possible viable spellbooks and arena maps and custom formats that it basically has infinite replayability. The slow release schedule would be fine if there was more community engagement and more frequent release of mage wars products in general besides just card expansions.

What we need is more content in general and more communication from AW, not just expansions. All of the organized play story material was taken down when the website was updated, and they still only have ONE book released and everything else story related is posted on the forums rather than being published in books where more casual players are more likely to see it. And the game has been out for almost six years.

The problem simply put in my opinion is that Arcane Wonders bit off more than they could chew by creating a game that was too big for them to support on their own with such a small staff. I think they should have asked for more help. Either by making some sort of partnership with another company that's willing to supply extra people to help but still lets AW do their own thing, or simply asking for more volunteer help from the fanbase.

I know there are probably a lot of things that they might not be comfortable having people do without paying people for it, but I think it's important to be realistic. There were many times where I felt like Arcane Wonders and the Mage Wars game and community would be much better off and much more engaging and active if they asked more fans to volunteer. I for one would have jumped at the chance to help write some official story material or help assist in designing official alternate variants for new battlegrounds sets if I was ever asked to, even if I wasn't being paid for it. And I doubt I was the only one to ever feel like this.

At this point I think that if Arcane Wonders wants their flagship game's online community to survive, they're basically depending on a few key fans. In particular the members of Arcane Duels. If sharkbait, coshade, and puddnhead stopped playing or even just got really busy for a long stretch of time at some point in the future, I suspect that the online mage wars community would largely disappear.

There are some offline playgroups that were built up enough that they're unlikely to disappear any time soon, such as the group in Charlotte, North Carolina. They probably will still be around and playing mage wars even after most everyone else stops playing.

The really sad thing is that mage wars is such a great game and has so much potential that in the hands of a bigger company it would most likely have been a much bigger success and would have almost certainly given collectable games like Magic or Warhammer a run for their money if not simply outshining them altogether.

I think that unless Arcane Wonders has a strategy for revitalizing their flagship game's community some time soon on their own, they should make some sort of deal with another company or perhaps even sell the game outright so they can focus more on their dice tower essentials line. They've bitten off more than they could chew and I think they should be honest with themselves and admit that. They should not let their love and attachment to mage wars make them succumb to sunk cost fallacy.

That being said, please take everything I've said here with a grain of salt. I've never run a business before and I don't have any expertise in the field. I'm just saying how things look to me as I see it with the limited understanding that I have. That being said, I am a die-hard fan of the game and I've been playing it since 2013, and if I am seeing things this way, there's a good chance that others have similar perspectives. That might even be why so many well known mage wars lovers in this community have left. Nobody wants to stick around on what they perceive to be a sinking ship.

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