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Messages - Wildhorn

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1021
Rules Discussion / Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« on: November 29, 2013, 09:48:27 AM »
Quote from: Wildhorn
Stun effectivly prevent to initiate attack action.

It could be interpreted that way, but that's not the only interpretation as I pointed out. You could also read it as being unable to perform the action at all.

I do not interpret anything. I am just reading what is written black on white... Err scroll-colored. Incapacited prevent to take attack action. In the case of Battle Fury we do not take an attack action, we are just continuing the one that as already been taken.

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Quote from: Wildhorn
Because if we take it the way you want to imply it, then stun would prevent a creature to be Force Pushed since it would be illegal for it to move.

A Push is different from a Move is different from a Teleport. Three completely different beasts which have nothing to do with one another. For example, Unmovable prevents you from Pushing a target, but the target is still able to Move. Meanwhile, Restrained prevents an object from Moving but you are still able to Push it.

I know all that. I was just saying that if you claim that Incapacitate make all the thing it list illegal, then the stunned creature can't be moved because Push is a move. NOT a Move Action but still a move. Just like Battle Fury makes you do another attack NOT an Attack Action.

1022
Spells / Re: Tanglevine is now a Vine
« on: November 28, 2013, 01:23:31 PM »
it does make sense with the new vine mechanic that the druid added

Indeed. I am just wondering if there are other cards that got this kind of addition through the different expansions. I think i read somewhere that a card received the Mana subtype but I cant recall which one.

1023
Spells / Tanglevine is now a Vine
« on: November 28, 2013, 09:17:01 AM »
I noticed that yesterday and could not find a mention of it on forums.

Previously (aka old cards) had Plant subtype. The cards in DvN has Plant and Vine subtype now.

Is there somewhere on the forum or a pdf downlaod with this kind of errata of cards (beside the temples/BF one)?

1024
Rules Discussion / Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« on: November 28, 2013, 07:26:06 AM »
Wildhorn, I respect your opinion and applaud the work you have done to support it. Unfortunately, I believe you have failed at proving your point. I still believe it could be interpreted either way and that we need an official answer on the matter.

Quote from: Wildhorn
The legality of a target is not dependant of attacker's condition.

This statement is just plain false. There are several conditions that affect legality. For example, Stuck makes it illegal for a flying creature to target another flying creature. Taunt makes it illegal to target any creature other than the one that taunted you. Finally, Stun makes it illegal to attack anything at all. For the first two conditions, we can find explicit rulings that prevent them from affecting an action in progress. The wording on Stun and Incapacitate is not as clear.

I didn't choose properly my wording. I should have wrote that attacker being stunned doesnt affect legality in targetting. Stuck and taunt affect targets that are allowed. Stun doesnt do that. So even stunned, you can target something you would normally be able to.

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An Incapacitated creature cannot take any actions, including moving, attacking, guarding, casting spells, or counterstriking.

This statement COULD be interpreted to mean you can not initiate such actions. It could also be interpreted more broadly to mean such actions are simply illegal to perform. The latter interpretation allows for the condition to impact an action already in progress.

Stun effectivly prevent to initiate attack action. With Battle Fury, if you read the text on the card, you don't initiate an attack action, it just continue the same attack action. What it does is it grant another melee attack, not an attack action. It is very clear.

Because if we take it the way you want to imply it, then stun would prevent a creature to be Force Pushed since it would be illegal for it to move.

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And we still have the issue of whether a second Damage Barrier and Counterstrike attack can be made against the attacker. Even Laddinfance has stated he is unsure about this.

If we follow rules, DB and CS only affect a creature once. Doesnt matter if it pass by the step again. To me its very clear too.

1025
Rules Discussion / Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« on: November 28, 2013, 01:41:13 AM »
But if you use BATTLE FURY as a kind of Sweeping Action, you absolutely have to check again, if you can legally attack your new opponent. Look up "Sweeping" in the Codex:

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The second attack occurs at the end of the attack sequence from the first attack. Start a new attack sequence beginning with the Declare Attack Step.

And another attack should just not be possible, if you have been stunned. This totally goes against the propagated "intuitiveness" of the game. So then we could maybe argue, that another strike against the same target would be possible, while switching targets would be illegal (when you've been stunned). Just my 2 cents. ;)

No you do not. It is another attack sequence, but it is not another ACTION, which is what Incapacited prevent. Incapacited prevent to take an action, it doesnt prevent it to continue.

1026
Spellbook Builder / Re: Feature requests
« on: November 28, 2013, 01:37:25 AM »
When saving a spellbook that was loaded from disk, subsequent saves are text only (.txt extension).

This should be in the Bug Report thread :-)

Nothing I can do about this. The Mac makes assumptions about files based on the MIME type of the file and then adds file extensions for you. Its an annoying sort of thing to do but there is nothing I can do to stop it from happening.

Samething happens with my Chromebook. It totally drop the name, saving the file under the name "sbb.txt".

1027
Rules Discussion / Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« on: November 28, 2013, 12:41:35 AM »
Quote from: Apethemin
Then we have a new question on our hands as to whether stun just prevents you from initiating an action or if it can stop an action that is already in progress. I could be wrong about this, but I believe it would stop the Battle Fury, and here's why. During Step 1: Declare Attack, you must check to see if you can legally attack your target with the Battle Fury attack, and I would assume the answer to that question is "no" because you are stunned.


If we read the rules carefully, we can conclude that it would not stop an action already in progress.

Battle Fury text:
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"The next time this round the target creature makes a melee attack, if that attack is not a Counterstrike, at the end of that attack action it may immediately make another quick action melee attack. This extra attack counts as part of the same attack action. Only one Battle Fury spell may be cast per round on the same creature."

Even if Battle Fury start from step 1 to through step 8, it is part of the same action.

Stun makes creature Incapacited.

Incapiced text:
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"An Incapacitated creature cannot take any actions, including moving,
attacking, guarding, casting spells, or counterstriking."

That's the interesting part. Cannot take any actions, but the creature is not taking an action, it is already in its attack action since Battle Fury extra attack is part of the same action.

Now, the Step 1 text (and where you are wrong about being legally able to attack the target):

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"Announce which attack you are using. If your creature has
more than one attack, represented by more than one “attack
bars” on its card, you must choose only one attack to use.
You must choose an attack whose action icon matches the
type of action you are taking (for example, a full action icon
will require the creature to use a full action to make that
attack).
Then, announce what target you are attacking. You must
choose a legal target for your attack:
If you are making a melee attack, the target must be in the
same zone as the attacker. If there are enemy guards in the
zone, you must choose one of the guards to attack (see
“Guarding” on page 29).
If you are making a ranged attack, the target must be in range
of the attack. A ranged attack ignores guards. All ranged
attacks have a minimum and a maximum range. The target
must be in a zone that falls within that range (see “Counting
Distances” on page 10). Also, a ranged attack must make sure
it has a clear LoS (line of sight) - see “Line of Sight” on page
17. All ranged attacks ignore steps 6 and 7.
Pay Any Required Costs
Sometimes you will have to pay an additional cost in order
to make an attack. For example, an enchantment may force
you to pay mana before your creature can attack.
You must pay these costs during the Declare Attack step, or
the attack is canceled.
If you discover that you cannot legally attack your target
during this step, you may cancel the attack and choose a
different target, or even take a completely different action.
Remember: If a Flying creature attacks a non-Flying object,
it loses Flying until the end of the attack. See “Flying” on
page 15.
If later during the attack you discover that your target is no
longer legal (for example, it has been Pushed or Teleported
out of range), the attack is canceled.
If the attacker is Dazed, at the end of the Declare Attack Step
he must roll to see if his attack misses. If it misses, skip to
Step 5: Additional Strikes. See “Daze” in the Codex."

Nowhere in Step 1 it require you to be not-Incapacited. The legality of a target is not dependant of attacker's condition.



And for damage barrier/counterstrike, it all depends if you consider "attack" and "strike" to be the same thing or not. Personally, I would allow damager barrier/counterstrike to only hit once.


I think the intention behind Battle Fury was to grant the next attack equivalent of "Sweeping or Doublestrike", but they wanted to allow it on Full Action attack too without allowing 2 Full Action attack and they could not word it like "grant next melee attack either Sweeping or Doublestrike" because if the attack was already DoubleStrike, they wanted it to get a 3rd strike.

1028
Mages / Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« on: November 25, 2013, 04:08:22 PM »
A nice card idea for Warlord:

Trench (Zone Enchantment)

Warlord Only.

Hinder movement of non-flying creature. (Have to deal with the trench maze). Creature in this zone can't be targeted by ranged attacks from non-flying non-indirect source. (The creatures are protected by the trenches).


I would also like to see more trap-like enchantments, guerrilla-style. With a spell level of 2 War.

Bear-Trap. When triggered, snap the creature dealing damage and giving it a Lumbering marker (new marker)
Mine. Deal damage and 1-2 burn marker

Or cool stuff like Grenade-Bag, attached conjuration. Creature gain a 0-1 ranged AoE attack.

1029
Mages / Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« on: November 25, 2013, 09:31:05 AM »
I agree that the main problem with the Warlord is that most utility spells (teleport, jinx, dispel, nullify) are arcane. They should have been Novice spells.

The outpost non-adjency is thematic (it is an OUTpost, supposed to be distant from each others). But would have been nice if the garrison post would have allowed the Barrack to spawn on them too instead of just the mage. The archer tower is pretty good.

What the Warlord need is some level 3-4 incantation/enchantment that give good buffs arena wide range.

1030
Strategy and Tactics / Re: How to effectively use the Force Master?
« on: November 21, 2013, 12:52:20 PM »
Stalker is still vulnerable to aoe attacks

Yes but aoe rarelly does alot of damage and are mana costly and will hurt your own creature/conjuration

1031
Strategy and Tactics / Re: How to effectively use the Force Master?
« on: November 20, 2013, 08:47:30 AM »
With an obelisk down, she can mind control your big creature and not pay the upkeep cost, instantly killing it.

1032
Rules Discussion / Re: Bear Strength + Doublestrike
« on: November 19, 2013, 11:52:11 AM »
Read the definition of Doublestrike in the codex. It is just that attack allow you to make a second attack in the additional attack step. So no bonus dices for second attack.

For piercing and others (like Indirect), unless stated otherwise (like Perfect Strike says "for next melee attack"), it applies to all attacks.

1033
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Cursed Equipments
« on: November 19, 2013, 08:28:55 AM »
It's an interesting idea, but I don't think such spells would be very valuable. For two reasons.

1) You can't cast the spell if their mage already has equipment attached to that location. Essentially they can put up a permanent counter to your card unless you dissolve it.

2) It is too easy for your opponent to remove. All they have to do is cast a piece of equipment that benefits them and that they probably would have liked to cast anyways, and for no extra cost what so ever your equipment goes away AND is now permanently blocked from being recast on their mage unless you dissolve it.

I do believe I read somewhere though that they mentioned the idea for cursed equipment where you gain a drawback as well as a benefit. I could imagine something like a chest piece that gave +3 Armor but also Lightning +2.

1) This is not that much a problem.

2) Cursed equipment could have the trait Cursed: Require to pay X mana before you can replace it. But even if they don't do, it would force your opponent to cast earlier some equipment that they might have wanted to keep for later. Lets say you cast a cursed Wand of Zapidiboo (which zap for 1 damage the mage holding it), now that mage either take 1 damage every round or get his Mage Wand out now (which he was saving for Heal late game), which you promptly dissolve.

1034
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Cursed Equipments
« on: November 17, 2013, 08:51:49 PM »
Since it is allowed to cast equipments on other mages, it would be nice if next expansion would include some cursed items. This would force them to either dissolve them or replace them with their own equipments.

Some ideas (with very bad names):

Boots of stumbles: When you make a move action, you have to roll a 7+ else it fails.
Gloves of peace: -1 to non-spell ranged and melee attacks.
Bulleyes armor: +1 to ranged attacks that target you
Concrete boots: You gain the Restrained and Unmovable traits.
Vampire Cloak: Every upkeep you take one damage and controller of this cloak heal one damage.
Boots of feather: When affecter by a push effect, you are pushed an extra space (could be good or bad for this one)

1035
Spellbook Builder / Re: Feature requests
« on: November 11, 2013, 09:30:44 PM »
Add "+" button next to the "-" in our spellbook so we do not have to search in the big list just to add another copy of a card already in the spellbook.

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