November 19, 2019, 03:28:12 PM

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Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Offerings to the Ghoul
« Last post by drmambo23 on Today at 07:47:46 AM »
Your first 4 sacrifices or so wont benefit anyone since the ghoul eats them, can't attack for the melee and piercing bonus. But later on, I found if you can get 2 out one eats and you buff the other.

It could work too with a warlock and pentagram, spawning smaller demons and sacrificing them. You just dont get an investment return as fast without the graveyard
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Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Offerings to the Ghoul
« Last post by zot on November 18, 2019, 06:05:40 PM »
it is interesting you posted this. we discussed kralathor over the weekend here and it occurred to me that the ghoul might also be a good way to do something similar. I had not gotten around to checking how the ghoul would work if it was in the kralathor book.
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Spellbook Design and Construction / Offerings to the Ghoul
« Last post by drmambo23 on November 18, 2019, 12:04:27 AM »
Offerings to the GhoulA Necromancer Spellbookbuilt by the OCTGN SBB
Attack1 x Chain Lightning2 x Fireball3 x SwellConjuration1 x Idol of Pestilence1 x Sacrificial Altar1 x Graveyard2 x Wall of Poison Gas2 x Poison Gas CloudCreature1 x Matatoomba, Plagued Spirit2 x Mhegedden, Sealed Demon2 x Ravenous Ghoul1 x Plagued Voidwalker6 x Zombie Crawler6 x Vengeful VoidwalkerEnchantment1 x Brace Yourself1 x Force Sword1 x Force Orb1 x Circle of Lightning2 x Hydrothermal VentEquipment1 x Cloak of Shadows1 x Death Ring1 x Golden ShieldIncantation1 x Abyssal Sacrifice1 x Shift Enchantment2 x Lesser Teleport1 x Fizzle2 x Dissolve2 x Dispel1 x Seeking Dispel3 x Ritual of Kallek2 x Force Push1 x Force Bash1 x Sweeping Strike1 x Focused Strike
Total cost: 120 pts


This is a fun deck that anyone can pick up and play. There is a bit of mana and action management to get used to but other than that it is pretty straight forward.

Use the altar to sacrifice cheap creatures to buff the ghoul.  There are 2 ghouls in case one is destroyed or if you want to just run 2 (they're not legendary)

The cheap creatures are there only for action advantage and to be offerings for the ghoul(s). Mheghedden is in here for the same reason, 6 mana for melee +4 and piercing +4, can't beat it.

If you sacrifice a creature, the ghoul can eat it's corpse and grow but the graveyard also gets mana everytime you do this so the cycle can continue.

If you really need to, you can spawn a creature from the graveyard and hard cast one then kallek one of them. even if it dies prematurely you may still get mana on the graveyard, if not action advantage, ghoul food, and more dice on the board.

Other than that the rest is mostly support for the main creatures and the mage, force orb and sword for the ghoul and a lightning barrier for one of them. shift enchantment one of these if you need to :)

Ritual of Kallek, i know i know..but the creature is just going to die anyways, why not get more mana while I am at it?

The golden shield is just in case they get too close to nullify the cloak of shadows.  it is not meant as a cure all but just as a shield to temporarily hold me over a few attacks. 

I've been digging force bash a lot lately. It may just be me, but on a first quick cast if I can use that, push through a wall (ideally) and get 2 slams? sounds pretty rad to me! i could push into a hydrothermal vent zone, get a bash and daze or stun? or just make is so that the cloak is now effective and you are slammed? its not a fantastic spell but if you have mana or spell book points to fit it in, worth a shot!

The only thing I didnt put in here that all of my other necros have is gravikor and knockdown...they might squeeze in later but for now the book is just a casual fun book.

I just picked the attack spells because I like them! :)


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Alternative Play / Re: Mage Wars Dojo!
« Last post by DaveW on November 17, 2019, 09:46:33 PM »
2x3 zones has been used for Arena training possibly since the first rules set came out, if I remember correctly. I know I read about that format for teaching the game somewhere a long, long time ago. Maybe it was with starter spellbooks. I know I ran a few days of 2x3 "how to play" sessions at a local tournament a few years ago.
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Alternative Play / Mage Wars Dojo!
« Last post by Sailor Vulcan on November 17, 2019, 08:04:22 PM »
For those who don't have time for Arena but find Academy wanting, I have a new format for you! It's called Mage Wars Dojo!

-The Arena is 2 x 3 zones
-Walls are banned
All mages are lv4, have 50 spell points, 3 starting mana and 7 channelling
-All mages in both Academy and Arena are legal. Arena mages get -10 life
-The planning phase and quickcast phases are included
-The first two rounds are setup rounds, during which you can't attack or target enemy objects and also can't take move actions.
-Max 2 copies of each lv2+ spell in your spellbook
-Max 3 copies of each lv1 spell in your spellbook.

What do you think? Pretty cool huh? I've already built several spellbooks for this and counting. If anyone is interested in trying this with me, my OCTGN username is Sergeant_Ketchup. I'd be happy to let you use one of my spellbooks. Or if you'd like to play in person that would be great too!!!

Enjoy! :D
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General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« Last post by shoopufff on November 16, 2019, 05:13:51 PM »
Along the lines of Holy Mage only, I think it makes a lot more sense thematically that they would be the only ones able to use it.

It would also give you a very good reason to pick them if you want to use it.

But really, I would like to see more cards that affect the board like Pillar and the other traps because they feel like a design space that has not been used that much in Mage Wars.
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General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« Last post by DaveW on November 16, 2019, 10:57:50 AM »
I have used Pillar in a number of games, sometimes with success, sometimes not.

I played it once in a tournament to deter a bunch of creatures moving into my zone and killing me in a few turns. The only trouble was that I was moved from that zone and killed elsewhere. (You need more than just this card to use it effectively... which means more mana spent and more actions taken to support it.)

One downside that hasn't really been addressed is that if you play your cards right, the Pillar player will have to play additional spells to make use of the thing... stay away from that zone for three turns and you don't need to worry about it. Sure... he'll get one attack on casting the spell, and probably a second the turn after, but that could be all without additional actions and mana.

I also played it in order to make a single absolutely necessary attack against a ghost... no other enemy creatures anywhere near it, but I couldn't let the ghost sit in the zone and take apart several other creatures instead. I feel it was worth the cost even for that one attack.

The spell puts a cramp on mobility... but so do many other spells. You just need to know how to work around it.

With all that said... I feel that the spell should have been level 3 Holy at least, probably level 4. I don't think that it should be Holy mage or Priestess only on top of that though. This would make it more in line with other very powerful spells. It might also be a couple of mana more, but 13 seems too high to me, given that you can simply avoid it unless the other player puts more resources into using it to reposition you.

Instead of an increased mana cost, I like the thought being used in some tournaments where the Pillar doesn't attack if you are moved into it... only if you voluntarily move into it (and on casting and when removing dissipates). It still feels like a level 3 (or possibly 4) spell though to me.

Edit: Note that level 4 Holy makes it much more costly for a Paladin to use. Maybe that's a good thing conceptually, but I feel that the Paladin kind of needs access to this spell. (Again... just my opinion.)
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General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« Last post by Enti on November 16, 2019, 07:25:04 AM »
With that in mind, let's look at some easy to compare cards 1 epic and 1 not.

Heal - Quickcast - 9 mana - holy 2 - living creature - 8 dice
Lay Hands - Quickcast - 9 mana - holy 3 - Living non-mage creature - 12 dice and infinite condition removal for relevant cost


I very much like this comparison. You take a regular card and compare it with its epic counterpart. I haven't thought of that and it's certainly worth exploring.
Although my analysis and conclusions significantly differ from yours! I enjoy reading yours nevertheless! :)

The first thing we notice is, that Lay Hands is way more powerful than Heal. Same mana, 1spb more, but 4 more  dice! That's 50% more healing!

But now we take a look at the two things that balance this epic card:
First of all the range is 0-0. So You have to be in the same zone as the creature you heal, that already is a very big disadvantage because if your strategy is to play with temple and summon units, your mage will not stand at the frontline, but in the back.

Secondly, what makes the 0-0 range even worse, is that you cannot even heal yourself. If you think back on the last 5 uses of Heal that you have seen, I am sure at least 4, probably all 5, were used on the mage.

There is a reason why you don't see Lay Hands played, it's to narrow in its use, the exact opposite of the Pillar in fact, further showcasing how much of an outlier this card is.


Let's take a look at some other epic cards and compare their powerlevel to their "next of kin".

Blur: https://gyazo.com/ffdbe71487b0dfb7ce2cb4d7146436d9
Hoodwink: https://gyazo.com/f8c615fcea0db0bc5dea7941dda0f886

Teleport: https://gyazo.com/0d56f78aaa786c9b659ecbd1f7ec0c0b
DI: https://gyazo.com/4b97ced33cb80e197a7f525ffd8aaf90

Thunderstorm: https://gyazo.com/14108c1e6004008c2a70ecda5f611e35
Pillar: https://gyazo.com/a91fa452eb00561b01e5d34ed3a1772e


I am not saying that Pillar breaks the game or that you are forced to include it in any competitive book.
What I say is that Pillar is too cheap for the amount of damage it can do and is unbalanced spellbookpointwise as well.
If I think about the wizard tower errata und compare the old wizard tower the the Ballista we have nowadays, I have to conclude that the Ballista is a better card than even the old wizard tower was. And it might well be that in future expansions we get a lot more cards that are on par with Pillar's powerlevel.


----

Option A: cast pillar and 2 teleports.
Option B: cast pillar and 2 force pushes. (Bigger risk than A)
Option C: cast 4 level 1 attacks with hawkeye

Wizard A: 8 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Wizard B: 8 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Wizard C :4 SBP, 16 mana, 4 actions, 21 dice avrage (Jet Stream)

First of all I really had to think hard how you manage to get 21 dice with Jet Stream in 4 attacks. That thing has 2 base dice. So with Hawkeye you have 12. Then I thought you pretended to hit 4 flyiers in row.. That would give you 4*5 dice, but you said 21 dice average. Well, you included the pushing!
First of all, one armor is way more devastating then as compared to Pillar and secondly.. I played a jet-stream Wizard for a long time and let me tell you it is so damn freaking hard to bash against walls with every attack, because you opponent knows that this is your goal once you start that. Jet Stream is not a good example to use because it is so highly dependant on the situation. That alone makes Pillar way way better.
Secondly.. you haven't included the actions that are needed to deal the damage in your analysis. Yes, you mention them, but you don't talk to them.
Even saving a single action is worth a lot when the killing starts. Secondly you neglect to mention that a forcepush at the right time not only deals those 2*4 dice dmg but in most cases lead to a situation, in which the pushed creature will die, no matter the dice of the Pillar because your own creatures are waiting in the Pillar-zone and you give them a target they wouldn't otherwise have.
And often your opponent won't enter the zone to guard the unit, because they get 4 more dice everytime they move into the zone! But if they do the same with you, you can move out of the Pillar zone and protect your forcepushed unit.


I can give you a real example: 4 Skeleton Sentries and 3 Skeleton Knights stand in my zone. I cast the Pillar to the right, move to the left and forcewave them all in. 14 mana. 7*6=42 dice in one turn with 2 actions.

Against undead we need to compare the Pillar with the holy tools that were especially made for battling undead.
https://gyazo.com/0dedf633e09c31b5678420f436761f37

And again, I don't think that single card breaks the game, I think it has a significantly bigger impact into the game than a lvl2 spell for 9 mana should have. I mean, compare it to some dark-school high-level spells..
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/magewarsboardgame/images/4/42/Drain_Life.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150428040042
And its even stronger brother, Drain Soul: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/magewarsboardgame/images/9/96/Drain_Soul.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150428040041

One of the strongest and most costly attack spells in disguise. There is not a single incantation more expensive than Drain Soul and they even made it "dark mage only", restricting its usage to 3 mages!
And now compare this strongest dark school specific spell with Pillar in terms of damage output and game-impact.
Bump Pillar up to 16 mana and it would still be the better card. And yes, it's level 2 and everyone can have it in their deck, not only dark mages.

I'd even be satisfied if Pillar would stay as it is, but can only be used be holy mages. Or better even, only the Priest can use it. That would finally be an incentive to play that sucker.
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General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« Last post by Knabb master on November 16, 2019, 05:07:57 AM »
Option A: cast pillar and 2 teleports.
Option B: cast pillar and 2 force pushes. (Bigger risk than A)
Option C: cast 4 level 1 attacks with hawkeye

Wizard A: 8 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Wizard B: 8 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Wizard C :4 SBP, 16 mana, 4 actions, 21 dice avrage (Jet Stream)

Priestess/Paladin A: 10 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Priestess/Paladin B: 6 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Priestess/Paladin C: 4 SBP, 20 mana, 4 actions, 24 dice  (Luminous Blast)

Warlock A: 14 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Warlock B: 10 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Warlock C: 4 SBP, 16 mana, 4 actions, 20 dice + burns (Firestream)

Beastmaster/Druid A: 12 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Beastmaster/Druid B: 8 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Beastmaster/Druid C: 4 SBP, 16 mana, 4 actions, 20 dice (Spray of Barbs)

Forcemaster A: 12 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Forcemaster B: 4 SBP, 11 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice (Force pull)
Forcemaster C: 4 SBP, 16 mana, 4 actions, 20 dice (Invisible Fist)

Warlord A: 16 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Warlord B: 8 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice.
Warlord C: 4 SBP, 20 mana, 4 actions, 24 dice (Hurl Rock)

Necromancer A: 14 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Necromancer B: 10 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Necromancer C: 8 SBP, 16 mana, 4 actions, 24 dice (Hurl Rock)

Siren A: 12 SBP, 15-21 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Siren B: 8 SBP, 15 mana, 3 actions, 24 dice
Siren C: 4 SBP, 16 mana, 4 actions, avrage of 22 dice (Swell)

Not taking into account that Pillar gets + 2 vs non-living or that you get controll over the zone. The only downside is that for a lot of mages the Pillar costs more SBP so you basically sacrifice SBP for tempo which I would say is worth it.

EDIT: Basically what I meant is that you gain similair efficiency to the attack spells by just playing Pillar but the difference is that you also pay maybe 6 SBP's to take controll over a zone for 3 rounds which I think is extremely strong.
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General Discussion / Re: Pillar of Righteous Flame - Discussion
« Last post by shoopufff on November 16, 2019, 02:47:12 AM »
That's a fair assessment. The primary reason to use that card in a comparison of the epic trait and its effect was because it has the simplest example of an epic to non-epic comparison.

Another epic card that I would argue has potentially even more power than Pillar is "Idol of Pestilence" which is also usable by all mages and affects all living creatures in all zones (except the necromancer).

I would argue that in the same way that Pillar counters and neuters non-living creatures, Idol of Pestilence has an even stronger effect on living creatures, especially with a focus low cost swarm style ones. Especially in conjunction with Deathlock (which is also epic and usable by all mages).

But, I don't think Pillar or these cards are required in every book just because they are super amazing at what they do.
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