May 25, 2018, 11:23:14 PM

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General Discussion / Re: The biggest problem MW has: rule-uncertainty
« Last post by RomeoXero on Today at 07:49:02 PM »
Channel phase happens before upkeep. Therefore you actually HAVE mana to spend on upkeep costs and such. There is therefore a legal window to flip your ghoul rot after channel phase, before upkeep. Doesnt seem right on octgn where many of these actions are autoed or clunky in the interface. It only seems like the enchant is flipping in upkeep since that's the first time the automation lets you manipulate the board again.
General Discussion / Re: The biggest problem MW has: rule-uncertainty
« Last post by Kharhaz on Today at 06:24:15 PM »
I don't know where the ruling was or if it was just told to me during a game, but I know you can reveal during upkeep and force the 2 damage during the same upkeep phase. It's never made any sense to me.

Firing form the hip but revealing an enchantment can only be done after phases, not in them unless an event that has steps like an attack gives you that option.

I don't want to derail the this post, was just curious to reread some of the older posts
I don't know where the ruling was or if it was just told to me during a game, but I know you can reveal during upkeep and force the 2 damage during the same upkeep phase. It's never made any sense to me.
General Discussion / Re: The biggest problem MW has: rule-uncertainty
« Last post by Kharhaz on Today at 06:13:46 PM »

What if we came up with a system in which initiative didn't pass automatically?

That's an interesting idea, having events unfold based on spell level.

Spell level one effects happen first, then resolve 2nd level, etc....
General Discussion / Re: The biggest problem MW has: rule-uncertainty
« Last post by Kharhaz on Today at 06:10:16 PM »

Enchantments may not be revealed during upkeep. (EXCEPTION: if an attack occurs during the upkeep then only enchantments that affect that particular attack sequence may be revealed)

This causes fundamental issues in the way some cards are designed.

It is important to note that the Upkeep phase has no steps. It's a book keeping phase. There should be no discussion on what to do, you follow the cards and effects active; choosing the order of events effecting your things as needed. (Design Goal)

The arguement that "initative timing can be stupid" is valid sometimes, but you should not attempt a fix that prevents a multitude of interatctions from taking place that is rendering cards temporarily ineffective (enchantment transfusion or healing charm, etc.)

You really should note make Upkeep contain a separate set of rules. If Upkeep and dissipate are a problem then it's something that can be tweaked with dissipate.

@DevilsVendetta can you link the ruling on ghoul rot so I can read that again by chance?

To answer the topic at hand:  FAQ sup has 46 pages; There is a rule clarity issue.
I've always hated the reveal ghoul rot during upkeep ruling. If you didn't have enough mana to reveal before the end of final quickcast, you can reveal after channeling but I shouldn't have to take the damage. I know there needs to be steps to make things clear but I've always thought of everything happening during upkeep as simultaneous so the damage couldn't happen unless the card was revealed previously.
General Discussion / Re: The biggest problem MW has: rule-uncertainty
« Last post by Puddnhead on Today at 04:06:53 PM »
I think that this is a false problem, at least when it comes to upkeep, as the rulebook has simple and straightforward rules.  First, effects always occur in Initiative Order.  Second, players always decide the order of the effects on their objects unless there is a timing conflict between the effects of objects controlled by the player with the Initiative and the effects of objects controlled by the player without the Initiative.  Third, since effects always occur in Initiative Order, the player with Initiative decides the order when a timing conflict exists.

I'm in the camp that thinks the other guy shouldn't be able to decide whether MY creature regens or takes damage first.  The "Initiative Decides" rule causes so many pauses and hiccups between players on what triggers when and who decides stuff and is, ultimately, a capital 'S' Stupid rule.

The Fact that I can lose a dissipate off of something just by playing it on the wrong initiative is a PROBLEM.

Deathlink, Whirlpool, Lullaby are all significantly affected by this timing issue thing.  That's really what needs to be cleaned up.  It may have been fine in the original core set, but there's been too much bloat that hasn't had a robust follow-up with rules changes.

Movement got a significant change in the 4th edition update to solve some movement interaction issues.  I think Upkeep should have the same--a breakdown into steps.  I also think that it's more than a little important to restrict enchantment reveals during upkeep otherwise you create even more problems.
Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Priestess
« Last post by zot on Today at 02:33:17 PM »

also do want to state his priestess is legit. it has won games.
General Discussion / Re: The current state of MW
« Last post by Sailor Vulcan on Today at 12:42:37 PM »
Correcting myself. The problem with mage wars isn't that it's too long to play, or that it's too complex.

A typical game of mtg in type 2 format takes about ten min right?

And mtg uses sideboard, ergo they have best 2/3 matches in tournaments. Therefore their matches probably tend to last around 20-30 min or so.

A typical game of warhammer 40k takes about a couple hours I think, and that game probably has a much larger competitive scene than mage wars.

A single game of mage wars arena typically lasts 60-90 min, and we include all our cards in our main deck and don't use sideboards. The game length is much more like warhammer than magic.

One possible reason that Arena never made it big was AW tried to market the game to card game players. They should have marketed it almost exclusively to minis players. Specifically, minis players that got burnt out on expensive games like warhammer and want to try something cheaper for a while which scratches a similar itch until they can afford to get back into warhammer or whatever.

Arcane Wonders did not market Mage Wars Arena this way at ALL. Instead they went with the "Combines the best aspects of both minis and ccgs" line. Which, let's be honest here, just isn't true.

Mage Wars Arena IS a minis game in every way except for the fact that it uses cards instead of minis, which makes it cheaper and means you don't have to look up what your pieces do in the rulebook because it's written directly on them!

In theory, mage wars arena could have been made as a minis game right from the very start. In fact, if we really wanted to, we could turn it into a minis game right now. Just put all the card text in a giant rulebook and replace the cards with minis, terrain features and tokens. If you want to do this cheaply, use cardboard pieces with plastic stands like the kind you would find in candyland or something. Or use the kind of cheap plastic that's sometimes used for checkers or chess pieces.

Maybe if we did that, it would suddenly become a lot easier to get new players into the game. The demographic that this game would most appeal to is and has always been largely neglected by AW, I think. It's possible that might have doomed this game to obscurity from the very beginning.

At this point, if we're being honest with ourselves, the majority if not all of this game's promotion is now done by fans and not by AW. Same thing with playtesting. And IIRC a good chunk of card design is done by volunteers. The only thing that fans don't contribute to which Arcane wonders still does is the production and funding, if I'm understanding right.

And the really sad thing is, Mage Wars is a GREAT game and would probably be WAY more popular than games like warhammer 40k if it had been better marketed and had more money behind it in the first place.

A significant number of experts think we'll get artificial superintelligence within the next few decades or so. Maybe by then copyright law will be reformed, the public domain will be brought back and mage wars will enter it, and a combination of crowd funding and a freer and more open marketing/communication industry will make it possible for mage wars to not be obscure anymore. Assuming any of us live that long anyway, which we probably won't.

I wouldn't get your hopes up. The long and short of it is that this community's future and the future of the game that ties it together are at the mercy of a company that appears to be able to only barely support it with the funds and personnel available to them. The game isn't going to die, but it will never thrive outside of very limited areas where it was lucky enough to have already gotten a large following, like Charlotte NC and OCTGN. Just a small cult following spread out across the world so most of us will only be able to play online or in conventions like gen con and origins.

I'm not sure if there's actually anything we can do except to urge arcane wonders to start more heavily involving their ambassadors in their marketing and product design for this game. You know, since the ambassadors are the ones who actually still have the time to play the game, and probably have played it a lot more than any of their paid employees. At this point we probably understand this game better than AW does, we have a better idea of who this game would appeal to than AW does, and we probably have a clearer and more comprehensive idea of what this game's selling points are than AW does. Seriously.

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Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Old Time Wizard
« Last post by silverclawgrizzly on Today at 12:32:13 PM »
Gotta say I'm with Red here man. Break up a couple then gargoyles for blue gremlins and put a gate in man trust me.
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