January 18, 2018, 06:14:46 AM

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Rules Discussion / Re: Goblin Legionnaire casting cost
« Last post by Puddnhead on January 17, 2018, 08:44:12 PM »
With a fully functional Barracks it costs you 6.

3 from barracks (don't use the ring discount)
2 for the next one (ring and cloak)
4 for the last one.

Point to consider.  The barracks one that comes out first must follow the normal barracks deploy rules, the other two are cast by your mage, but must be placed in the same zone as the first goblin effectively giving those other two goblins range infinite.
General Discussion / Re: How big can we realistically grow the playerbase?
« Last post by Beldin on January 17, 2018, 08:43:31 PM »
This is a very good card, a very good control card imo. However to use the words of the group at large any aggressive opponent will wreck this card. There are plenty of cards which deal with this card very easily.

The main questions are this, is it every book? So honestly is it really any more of a threat than any other?

Sure it turns off Melee buffs, but honestly it will just direct play until it can be removed. This game is a game of problems and solutions, it is about using the spellbook points you have to make the best book for your favourite mage. Any player worth their salt will either take  Altar of Ifernia on the chin and play around it or obliterate it with the hatred it deserves, once it is in play.

So I reiterate my question why is this such a problem, and let me answer that too; it is not. You expect these kinds of play during book building and plan accordingly. "I want to do A, I use B and C cards to accomplish this. D and E Mages/cards give these roads to victory problems, do I chalk these up as bad match ups, or can I use F and G cards to counter these problems?" F and G can be Acid Ball, rust, dissolve, the list goes on.

It is also a well known fact in Customisable games that a pool of players will usually have a (group of) best player(s), that(/those) player(s) will win more games than others using a range of books/decks, usually from the tier 1 pool. Players within the group with them will either stay at the same level of play or get better as they strive to beat the best player(s), competition breeds competitive play at all levels; this ranges from causal to tournament level. This is the same with the new players, it is very rarely that they leave said group due to always losing, but normally they fit right in because it is not just about the game, but the people and the experiences made.

If anything this is a weaker example than the swarm hate that is in nearly every book. However this does not drive people from the game, just they adapt.
General Discussion / Re: How big can we realistically grow the playerbase?
« Last post by bigfatchef on January 17, 2018, 08:09:38 PM »
How does Altar of Ifernia make the game repellent to new players?

Because this how a thread here looks like (in my eyes this is the definition of a catastrophe!):
Lost Grimoire volume 1 brings us this beauty from the school of darkness:

Altar of Infernia
Quick; 0-1; Zone
7 mana; Conjuration - Artifact; Lvl 2 Dark
2 Armor; 6 Health
Zone Exclusive; Epic

All creatures lose, and cannot gain, Melee +X traits. This does not affect Melee -X traits.

Sounds straightforward, right?


Or is it?

It turns out, when you look more closely (e.g. see the Codex), Mage Wars deals with adding attack dice in a variety of ways. Sometimes, the cards themselves or the rules and Codex as written state that a creature or creature type or damage type or mage gains "Melee +X", but other times it might say to "roll extra dice" instead. Depending on the wording, it may or may not be affected by Altar of Infernia. In general, you need to see if the trait keyword "Melee +X" is used in the effect of the ability or spell or condition marker, etc.

Here is a list of spells and abilities that are affected by Altar of Infernia, followed by a list that are not affected. Please feel free to post spells and abilities I've missed that you think are interesting.

Alter of Infernia affects:
- buffs that directly add Melee +X (typical examples include Bear Strength, Wolf Fury, Giant Size, Gauntlets of Strength, Paladin's Valor, Blessed Focus, Knight's Courage, Power Strike, Call of the Wild, etc)
- Growth markers (give Melee +1 for each Growth marker; thus Kralathor, The Devourer, Ravenous Ghoul, Shaggoth-Zora won't benefit as much with Infernia in play; each Growth marker still gives Innate Life +3 though)
- Rage +X (similar to Growth; thus Mountain Gorilla is affected)
- Ehren, Enduring Paladin
- Valshalla, Lightning Angel
- Steelclaw Matriarch
- Redclaw, Alpha Male doesn't buff other canines (aside from Armor +1)
- Wychwood Hounds don't buff each other (aside from Armor +1)
- Knight of the Red Helm usually gets Melee +2 when attacking strongest creature
- Azurean Genie (a "wish" can still be used for Healing 2 or Stagger)
- Hand of Bim-Shalla (similar to the Genie)
- Sacrificial Altar (although a creature still gets the Piercing bonus and there is mana refunded)
- Animal Kinship + canine(s)
- Staff of Beasts won't give a melee bonus to a friendly animal (but can still be used for healing)
- "Battle Skill" Mage ability (e.g. Straywood Beastmaster, Arraxian Crown Warlock, Bloodwave Warlord)
- Straywood Beastmaster's "Pet" (no general Melee +1 nor additional Melee +1 when in-zone)
- Bloodwave Warlord's "Veterans" AND command order "On Guard!" (although doesn't affect "Release Volley!" = Ranged +1, or "To Battle!" = Charge +1)
- Malakai Priest's "Holy Avenger" (no Melee +2 for you!)
- Johktari Beastmaster's "Wounded Prey" (no Melee +1 against that creature)
- "Siren's Call" ability wouldn't give a friendly creature Melee +2
- Paladin's "Vengeful Aura" doesn't give Melee +1, but still gives Piercing +2 so might still be worthwhile against heavily armored (but not Resilient) targets
- Aquatic creatures in Shallow Sea don't get Melee +1 (but non-aquatic non-flying still rolls 1 less die as normal...)
- Gate to Hell wouldn't give  Melee +1 buffs to demons
- Bloodfire Helmet wouldn't give  Melee +1 buffs to demons
- Demonic Link wouldn't give  Melee +1 buff to the demon
- Drakas, Imp Overlord wouldn't give  Melee +1 buffs to demons
- Similarly, Unholy Blood Ritual is a bad idea with Altar of Infernia in play!
- Kharne, Horned Demon normally gets Melee +X where X is the number of enemy creatures in its zone. Well, not with this Altar in play!
- Wildfire Imp wouldn't get Melee +2 for attacking an object with a Burn marker
- Wreck of the Viridian Lace would still grant Ranged +1 but not Melee +1 to pirates
- Temple of Meraveran becomes quite useless in Infernia!
- Shoalsdeep Tidecaller drops his Melee +2 bonus in Infernia, but still gets +4 to the effect die in initiative rounds
- Temple High Guard counterstrikes first but doesn't get Melee +2 when Guarding
- Metatron doesn't get bonuses for Temples in play
- Eligor Larington doesn't get a Melee +2 bonus (but does still gain Piercing +1) when counterstriking
- Alandell, the Blue Knight isn't worth putting mana into unless you REALLY need that Daze effect to trigger
- Acolyte of the Bog Queen can't give Melee +1 to zombies (but still reconstructs Skeletons and does Cleric stuff)
- Sentinel of V'Tar wouldn't get Melee +1 when guarding, but would still get all the other bonuses
- Standard Bearer wouldn't give Melee +1 but would still grant Armor +1 to other friendly creatures
- Dawnbreaker Ring would only grant Ranged +1
- Lightning Ring would only grant Ranged +1 (...)
- Deathshroud Staff wouldn't buff undead creatures with Melee +1
- Flank Attack would only grant Piercing +2

But has no effect on:
- Ranged +X (obviously)
- Piercing +X (making it a good alternative against armoured foes when Altar of Infernia is in play)
- Charge +X (!)
- Bloodthirsty +X (!!) <- think zombies, sharks, some demons, Goran, Werewolf Pet, etc
- most melee weapon Equipment's melee attacks (e.g. Arena melee weapons usually roll 4 dice + effects/traits/abilities, rather than having a Melee +X trait, so this is a way to mitigate against Infernia; and Academy melee weapons still roll one more die for Arena-level Mages as usual despite Infernia)
- Arraxian Crown Warlock's "Blood Reaper" (since it gains Bloodthirsty +2, not Melee +2)
- Necromancer's "Eternal Servant" (Piercing +1)
- Adramelech Warlock's "Smoldering Curses" ability (since enemy creatures gain Flame +1)
- Similarly, Malakai's Basilica works as normal (since it gives an enemy creature Light +1)
- Interestingly, unlike the "Wounded Prey" ability, Marked for Death doesn't have anything to do with Melee +X, but rather specifies that enemy creatures each roll one more die when attacking
- Gloranna, Avenging Angel rolls an extra die for each Holy creature in its controller's discard pile (up to a cap)... which isn't technically getting Melee +X!
- Lightning Raptor still charges up as normal (changes the number of dice of the attack directly, not Melee +X)
- Afflicted Demon works as normal; e.g. the Weak tokens are both a bane and a boon as usual
- Ballad of Courage (Charge +2, Fast and can't be Hindered)
- Smite (rolls "2 additional attack dice," not Melee +2)
- Zombie Frenzy is unaffected... as are pretty much all other zombie-related bonuses (aside from Deathshroud Staff)

** I didn't mention it above, but "+X vs. ___" traits will still work as normal (e.g. Tarok, the Skyhunter's "+2 vs. Flying", Samandriel, Angel of Light's "+1 vs Nonliving or Dark", Joseph Trublood's "+2 vs Nonliving and Dark", Kralathor, The Devourer's "+2 vs Undead", Titanodon's and Mountain Ram's "+2 vs Corporeal Conjurations", etc)
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: How to make Mage Wars faster
« Last post by DevilsVendetta on January 17, 2018, 08:06:16 PM »
Play worse. You'll lose faster.

Spoken by a true expert.  8)
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: How to make Mage Wars faster
« Last post by silverclawgrizzly on January 17, 2018, 08:03:55 PM »
Play worse. You'll lose faster.
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: How to make Mage Wars faster
« Last post by DevilsVendetta on January 17, 2018, 07:53:45 PM »
Faster game?

Change the rules in your own Arena.

For instance, any or all of:
Enter the Arena with 3 rounds worth of static and personal spells already cast - step in already with some equipment and enchantments, with your familiar.

Love this idea.

Have a hard limit on the number of creatures allowed in a spellbook.

Hate this idea as someone who likes running armies.

Outlaw enchantments.

Don't get this one at all.

Reduce alll mage starting life by 25%

Not a horrible idea just to speed a game up.

Start closer together.

As others have said, this really takes a way a lot of strategy[/quote]

Have a turn limit. If nobody wins by then the crowd boos and you both get the thumbs down from the emperor.

This is basically domination, which probably should have a bigger place in the community but its tough to divide your focus.

Use chess clocks for the planning phase.

I really haven't seen a lot of issues with specific phases taking too long. There might be a round or 2 near the mid or late game that take a bit longer to figure out the best play but nothing that would need a clock to monitor it.

There are all sorts of options. Try some and see how it goes.
General Discussion / Re: How big can we realistically grow the playerbase?
« Last post by DevilsVendetta on January 17, 2018, 07:49:24 PM »
I don't agree with it, but I would think because it nerfs a lot of buffs you have set-up and planned for your mage or its creatures. It's one card that takes away about 30 different options.
Player Feedback and Suggestions / Re: How to make Mage Wars faster
« Last post by Obsidian Soul on January 17, 2018, 07:47:36 PM »
It does become more about dice luck than it does about strategy.
General Discussion / Re: How big can we realistically grow the playerbase?
« Last post by Beldin on January 17, 2018, 07:47:23 PM »
How does Altar of Ifernia make the game repellent to new players?
General Questions / Re: Cassiel, Shield of Bim-Shella and Eye for an Eye
« Last post by Skra on January 17, 2018, 07:44:57 PM »
Believe me if Eye for an Eye could be cast by Cassiel I'd hold Heal in my hand and just let people punch me constantly.

That was what I was trying to determine if I could do. Hahaha.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.
Thanks for the answers everyone.
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