August 23, 2019, 09:51:09 PM

Author Topic: Hawkeye + Healing Light?  (Read 4337 times)

Cnoedel

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« on: October 01, 2013, 08:38:37 AM »
Hey folks,

so i stumbled across some questions - does hawkeye adds +1 dice to the asyran Clerics healing light since it is a ranged "attack"? Somehow i do not see healing as an attack more as an ability (it is even marked in gold, not in silver, on the card) and hawkeye as an enchantments that targets stereotypical archers.... on the other hand healing Light HAS a ranged ATTACK icon

Creatures with the Flame+X trait do not suffer any extra damage from burn conditions? Even if the burn condition deals flame damage?

I guess there are simple answers to those questions, please get my facts straight :D
"I close my eyes and seize it
 I clench my fists and beat it
 I light my torch and burn it
 I am the beast I worship..."

DTHGRPSBWR

http://absurdurbannihilist.tumblr.com/
my blog.

Wiz-Pig

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
  • Banana Stickers 5
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 09:20:18 AM »
Hey folks,

so i stumbled across some questions - does hawkeye adds +1 dice to the asyran Clerics healing light since it is a ranged "attack"? Somehow i do not see healing as an attack more as an ability (it is even marked in gold, not in silver, on the card) and hawkeye as an enchantments that targets stereotypical archers.... on the other hand healing Light HAS a ranged ATTACK icon

Creatures with the Flame+X trait do not suffer any extra damage from burn conditions? Even if the burn condition deals flame damage?

I guess there are simple answers to those questions, please get my facts straight :D

From all I can see, I would say yes. It is listed as an attack, there is no mention of the gold ability call out or that specific ability in either the rulebook or the FAQ. When they talk about healing in the rulebook they are a little ambiguous about it though. They site the Asyran cleric as their example saying "Some creatures have the ability to heal others as an action they can take."

Until you hear otherwise I would just assume it does count as an attack and a healing attack is treated like other attacks except for as mentioned in the rulebook: "Healing ignores the target's Armor."

Cnoedel

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 09:37:18 AM »
Okay thanks for your input in the first place! I am feeling somehwhat reliefed because i thought there must be a clearification inside the rules.

Healing about 1 Dice more is not very viable for hawkeye so i guess this situation does not come off that often.


Any help regarding burn? Does the Flame+X trait has any effect on burn condition markers?
"I close my eyes and seize it
 I clench my fists and beat it
 I light my torch and burn it
 I am the beast I worship..."

DTHGRPSBWR

http://absurdurbannihilist.tumblr.com/
my blog.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 09:47:30 AM »
on the other hand healing Light HAS a ranged ATTACK icon
That was caught last week, it is not actually a light attack which is represented by a globe of light. The symbol you see there is a Hand with light emanating from the Palm which is the symbol for healing.

Looking at the card I would say that it is a Ranged Attack [0-1] so Hawkeye would spiff the cleric. 
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Wiz-Pig

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
  • Banana Stickers 5
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 10:07:51 AM »
Okay thanks for your input in the first place! I am feeling somehwhat reliefed because i thought there must be a clearification inside the rules.

Healing about 1 Dice more is not very viable for hawkeye so i guess this situation does not come off that often.


Any help regarding burn? Does the Flame+X trait has any effect on burn condition markers?

It modifies the d12 roll on the attack making it more likely to gain burn markers, but It doesn't do anything to the burn markers themselves.

Cnoedel

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2013, 11:31:00 AM »
Thanks to Wiz-Pig

The problem came up with the Priest and his ability since he has no "chance" on setting things on fire :D But regarding the D12 it makes sense and i totally frogot about it!

I am impressed how fast the rules cleared up  :P
"I close my eyes and seize it
 I clench my fists and beat it
 I light my torch and burn it
 I am the beast I worship..."

DTHGRPSBWR

http://absurdurbannihilist.tumblr.com/
my blog.

baronzaltor

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1765
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2013, 02:28:33 PM »
on the other hand healing Light HAS a ranged ATTACK icon
That was caught last week, it is not actually a light attack which is represented by a globe of light. The symbol you see there is a Hand with light emanating from the Palm which is the symbol for healing.

Looking at the card I would say that it is a Ranged Attack [0-1] so Hawkeye would spiff the cleric.

The Cleric's heal is not an attack. 
There are two types of Bars
-Rulebook page 22 describes the Attack Bar
-Rulebook page 11 under "special actions" section describes Ability Bars.

Visually they are different in that Ability Bars are Gold-ish and Attack Bars are Silver. (that isn't mentioned in any text ive found, though. it would be a nice clarification to include whenever an update pass occurs again)
Now, sometimes an ability is an attack, but in those cases it will specify.  For example, The Wizard's Arcane Zap is an ability bar, but in its description it specifies that it is a "quick attack spell".

The Cleric's heal is in an ability bar, and does not have a descriptor to suggest that it is an attack, so while its a ranged ability its not an attack and wouldnt get +1D (Nor does Hawkeye give +1 Die of damage to the Forcemaster's Pull ranged ability, handy as that would be.)

If it were an attack, not only would Hawkeye give it +1, but the other odd effects would occur:
Reverse Attack would sling the Heal back at the Cleric
You could roll a defense against a heal and dodge it
An interceptor could catch the heal instead of letting it go to the intended target
A Mage using Altar of Peace would have to pay 1 extra mana to use the heal ability

A similar example is Huugin's ability to peek at hidden enchantments, or a Wand of Healing's attempts to remove conditions/heal.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 02:50:08 PM by baronzaltor »

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 03:53:32 PM »
@baronzaltor

The symbol on card indicated that it is a ranged attack which I why I made the call the way I did. However I tend to agree with you. But the two items you reference do not roll Attack Dice like the Clerics Healing Light....

Stray thought: What if Healing could do critical damage to the Undead?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 03:56:00 PM by sIKE »
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Shad0w

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2934
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 06:46:49 PM »
I think I have an answer but since I am at work with 15 min to go I will not add it unless needed.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

Kharhaz

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
  • Banana Stickers 7
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2013, 09:51:55 PM »
@baronzaltor

The symbol on card indicated that it is a ranged attack which I why I made the call the way I did. However I tend to agree with you. But the two items you reference do not roll Attack Dice like the Clerics Healing Light....

Stray thought: What if Healing could do critical damage to the Undead?

Negative:

Pg. 11 Rulebook v2.0

"some creatures have special abilities which are special actions they can take. These are described on their card, or may appear as an "ability bar" on their card. The ability will describe the action required (quick or full) to use it. Example: Huginn can peel at a target hidden enchantment up to 2 zones away. "

Abilities are not attacks unless the ability specifically states that it is an attack, like the wizard's Arcane Zap ability

No reverse attacks on clerics heals :P


To clarify. The green arrow symbol on the "attack bar" signifies that it is a ranged attack, but the green arrow symbol on the "ability bar" signifies it as a ranged ability, not an attack (unless stated in the ability).
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 09:55:24 PM by Kharhaz »

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2013, 10:00:05 PM »
You got a black-letter citation for that clarification?

It seems easy enough to argue that the ranged attack symbol is a announcement of an attack, per the rules, which specifically call it a ranged attack symbol.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 10:03:13 PM by ringkichard »
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Kharhaz

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
  • Banana Stickers 7
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2013, 01:09:25 PM »
You got a black-letter citation for that clarification?

It seems easy enough to argue that the ranged attack symbol is a announcement of an attack, per the rules, which specifically call it a ranged attack symbol.

Yes I do

It is a special actions not quick attack actions as stated on pg 11 of the revised rule book. Abilities are not attacks just like the guard action is not a quick attack action.


Quick action options
A. Make a quick attack
B. Cast a quick spell
C. Guard
D Take another move action
E. Take a special quick action
F. Do nothing

Full Actions
A. Make a full attack
B. Cast a full spell
C. Take a special action

Unless otherwise stated, special abilities are not attacks

lettucemode

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2013, 03:55:52 PM »
Agree with Kharhaz, the rulebook draws a distinction between attacks and special abilities of units, and there is precedent for ability bars.

Why not go with the intuitive ruling? It's mage wars after all.

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2013, 04:05:30 PM »
Alright, yeah. I'm convinced.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Hedge

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • Banana Stickers 1
    • View Profile
Re: Hawkeye + Healing Light?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2013, 05:49:07 PM »
Here is the whole Problem and why it is confusing. They used the wrong symbol from the start. If it is not an Attack it should use the range Icon from the casting line in the ability's range field. The same should aply to zone attacks. Zone attacks use the same Arrow range Icon and they are not Renged attacks and do not benifit from Ranged +X modifiers.


Hedge