August 20, 2019, 12:23:54 AM

Author Topic: Equipment Control  (Read 9479 times)

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Equipment Control
« on: May 09, 2013, 11:19:31 PM »
The rules say:
Quote
Equipment spells have a range of “0-2”. Normally, a Mage will be casting equipment only on himself. But, if he wants to cast it on a friendly Mage (in a team game), or have a Spawnpoint such as Battle Forge cast the equipment on him, then the range requirement must be checked. You can cast equipment on an enemy Mage too, but you cannot cast equipment on a location that is already taken on that Mage. You may not have more than one equipment spell with the same name attached to your Mage at any time. Some equipment spells have an attack bar on them, and give your Mage a new attack he can perform. When the Mage makes an attack, he can choose to use an attack printed on an equipment card, instead of another attack he may have.

Setting aside for a moment why I'd want to do this...

In a mirror match between two Warlocks, if I cast Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword on my opponent (who has no other equipment in the weapon slot), can my opponent's Warlock make attacks with it? I control it, but it's attached to him, right?

Who chooses what spell to ready on Sectarus each turn?
If my opponent does attack with it, who decides if it casts a curse on the creature it damages?
Who controls those curses? Whose mana can it use?

The rules do say:
Quote
If you control a Familiar during the Planning Phase, you may select a spell for it to cast during the round.
and they imply that if you control the familiar it is "yours" and you control any spells cast by "your familiar".


I'm asking because of the potential interaction between Armor Ward and Steal Equipment discussed elsewhere.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 11:38:55 PM by ringkichard »
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Shad0w

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2934
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 06:38:11 AM »
I know how I would rule this but Bryan has the final say. So I just want to see what he thinks.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 08:26:47 AM »
And further if I cast equipment on my opponent, say just for the fun of it,  I put equipment in the Sword AND Shield slot, how does he get rid of it? Normal spell selection and QC?

Why you ask? Maybe just to delay the LOH from coming out....not that I would do something like that.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

Fentum

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 11:18:42 AM »

Mage Wars uses  a lot of concepts similar to Poxnora. In Poxnora, there is a wide range of 'negative' equipment to attach to opponents, so I imagine that type of stuff will be coming to Mage Wars soon.  Possibly creature equipment too, I guess.

Barbed Vine Leash = take damage every time you move.
Ring of the Void = +1 Mana to cast seplls
etc

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 12:29:55 PM »
I kinda hope not? Currently equipment is different from enchantments in the following ways
  • The mage can only cast it on himself (or another mage)
  • There's no way to nuke all the equipment on a mage all at once
  • No curses

If equipment could be cast on creatures, and have cursed effects, there's really nothing different between equipment and enchantments, other than a lack of a Mass Desolve. (And with the Druid coming out, who knows?!)

That seems like it would be a loss of structural diversity for the game.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Wiz-Pig

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
  • Banana Stickers 5
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 09:55:07 PM »
Did we ever get an official answer to this question?

Kharhaz

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
  • Banana Stickers 7
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 10:24:59 PM »
The rules say:
Quote
Equipment spells have a range of “0-2”. Normally, a Mage will be casting equipment only on himself. But, if he wants to cast it on a friendly Mage (in a team game), or have a Spawnpoint such as Battle Forge cast the equipment on him, then the range requirement must be checked. You can cast equipment on an enemy Mage too, but you cannot cast equipment on a location that is already taken on that Mage. You may not have more than one equipment spell with the same name attached to your Mage at any time. Some equipment spells have an attack bar on them, and give your Mage a new attack he can perform. When the Mage makes an attack, he can choose to use an attack printed on an equipment card, instead of another attack he may have.

Setting aside for a moment why I'd want to do this...

In a mirror match between two Warlocks, if I cast Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword on my opponent (who has no other equipment in the weapon slot), can my opponent's Warlock make attacks with it? I control it, but it's attached to him, right?

Who chooses what spell to ready on Sectarus each turn?
If my opponent does attack with it, who decides if it casts a curse on the creature it damages?
Who controls those curses? Whose mana can it use?

The rules do say:
Quote
If you control a Familiar during the Planning Phase, you may select a spell for it to cast during the round.
and they imply that if you control the familiar it is "yours" and you control any spells cast by "your familiar".


I'm asking because of the potential interaction between Armor Ward and Steal Equipment discussed elsewhere.

Sectarus would prepare spells from your spell book and cast the prepared spell from your mana pool if need be. The opposing warlock could make attacks with the Sectarus since the equipment gives him an additional attack bar option. This is not "using" Sectarus because the opposing warlock is using an attack bar option given by Sectarus.

It's like putting bear strength on an opposing mage, he still gets melee +2 but does not "use" the enchantment since you used it to give him the ability. ;)

This is cut and pasted from the rules:

"Important: If a creature has more than one attack bar,
you must choose only one of the attacks to use each
time you attack. If your Mage gains an attack from a
spell or piece of equipment, you must choose only one
of the attacks your Mage has available (including the
basic one listed on his ability card) when you attack."

You would control any curse that was cast from sectarus of course; and since the wording on Sectarus is "may cast" the choice is yours if it does cast at all
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 10:51:33 PM by Kharhaz »

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 11:14:37 PM »
The folks able to issue rulings are all crazy busy right now, I expect. They'll get to us when they can.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Shad0w

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2934
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2013, 06:16:57 AM »
Trying to get all tourney docs complete and posted before the cons start up. Most are under final review.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2013, 09:47:26 AM »
Kharhaz, good find on the rulebook quotation re: equipment giving an attack ability. That was the part I was least sure of. If forced to answer, that is what I'd say now, too.

It's a weird interaction with Steal Equipment and Armor Ward, but its consistent.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 09:51:25 AM by ringkichard »
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Kaarin

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 03:24:32 PM »
Equipment control is interesting in context of team plays.

Can I cast equipment saying "X Mage only" on Y Mage?
If yes, as I am still owner of the equipment who uses things like Moloch's Torment?
  • Favourite Mage: Bloodwave Warlord
OCTGN: Wstrzasniety (UTC+2)

Kharhaz

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
  • Banana Stickers 7
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 10:35:03 PM »
Equipment control is interesting in context of team plays.

Can I cast equipment saying "X Mage only" on Y Mage?
If yes, as I am still owner of the equipment who uses things like Moloch's Torment?

You can, but it is immediately destroyed just like if you steal equipment that is mage specific.

However if it's a team game of say two priestess, they can cast priestess specific equipment on each other all day long (regardless if they are on the same team or not).

« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:37:21 PM by Kharhaz »

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 11:42:07 PM »
You can, but it is immediately destroyed just like if you steal equipment that is mage specific.

Can you provide a cite for this?
I can't find that in the Faq or the rules.
Quote from: The Faq
Restricted Spells
If a spell is restricted to particular Mage or school of training, it refers to two things:
1) Placing that spell in Mage’s spellbook when building their before the game begins.
2) Controlling or using that spell during the course of game.
Examples:
* If the Forcemaster casts Steal Equipment, she can target a Warlock’s Lash of Hellfire, which has the Warlock Only trait. However, since she cannot use this spell, it is destroyed instead.
* Steal Enchantment cannot be used to take control of an enchantment you might otherwise be restricted from. For example, the Wizard cannot take control of a Forcemaster’s Forcefield.
* If the Priestess steals a Mage Wand with a Drain Life spell bound to it, she cannot cast that spell. She can steal the wand, but wand would be of no use to her unless she chooses to bind a new new spell to it.
* The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control on Huginn, Raven Familiar because it has the Arcane Arcane Arcane Mage Only trait.

I believe the reason impossible stolen equipment is destroyed is because it says so on the card Steal Equipment, not in the rules of the game.
Quote from: Steal Equipment
Magecast
Choose an equipment object attached to target Mage. You control that equipment. You may immediately destroy it; Or, if you can legally attach it to yourself, you may do so, returning any item in that location slot to your spellbook. X = the chosen equipment's casting cost.

Unless there's been a ruling in the Playtester forum that the rest of us haven't seen?
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

baronzaltor

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1765
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2013, 01:49:38 AM »
You can, but it is immediately destroyed just like if you steal equipment that is mage specific.

Can you provide a cite for this?
I can't find that in the Faq or the rules.
Quote from: The Faq
Restricted Spells
If a spell is restricted to particular Mage or school of training, it refers to two things:
1) Placing that spell in Mage’s spellbook when building their before the game begins.
2) Controlling or using that spell during the course of game.
Examples:
* If the Forcemaster casts Steal Equipment, she can target a Warlock’s Lash of Hellfire, which has the Warlock Only trait. However, since she cannot use this spell, it is destroyed instead.
* Steal Enchantment cannot be used to take control of an enchantment you might otherwise be restricted from. For example, the Wizard cannot take control of a Forcemaster’s Forcefield.
* If the Priestess steals a Mage Wand with a Drain Life spell bound to it, she cannot cast that spell. She can steal the wand, but wand would be of no use to her unless she chooses to bind a new new spell to it.
* The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control on Huginn, Raven Familiar because it has the Arcane Arcane Arcane Mage Only trait.

I believe the reason impossible stolen equipment is destroyed is because it says so on the card Steal Equipment, not in the rules of the game.
Quote from: Steal Equipment
Magecast
Choose an equipment object attached to target Mage. You control that equipment. You may immediately destroy it; Or, if you can legally attach it to yourself, you may do so, returning any item in that location slot to your spellbook. X = the chosen equipment's casting cost.

Unless there's been a ruling in the Playtester forum that the rest of us haven't seen?

From a similar discussion regarding Mind Controlling a Warlord's Standard Bearer:
In the upcoming FAQ, we will state that any object that is attached to another object (like an enchantment attached to a creature) is destroyed if the target it is attached to becomes illegal. Thus if you Mind Control a creature with a Standard Bearer attached, the Standard Bearer will be destroyed.
Thats the closest thing I know of regarding the matter by anyone official, from a discussion about Mind Controlling a Standard Bearer.

With that in mind, I'd suspect that when you attach a Staff of Asyra to an allied Warlock,  he "becomes illegal" because he is not a Holy Mage and then the Staff is destroyed.  The restriction doesnt seem to prevent the ability to target an unintended mage, otherwise you could make a case that he wasnt a legal target in the first place. 

Thats my best guess based on the above quote.  It doesnt fit the case here 100%, but it seems to me that their general design intent is that mages arent supposed to be playing with the other mages restricted toys, and then when such an event occurs to destroy the card.

zot

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 697
  • Banana Stickers 5
    • View Profile
Re: Equipment Control
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2013, 04:09:18 AM »
    My thinking is that if you put equipment on an opposing mage, familiar or not, it becomes the property of that mage. Which is different that enchantments. So if you give him a sword, and he casts a lash, he puts your sword into his spellbook(to be returned at end of game).