April 24, 2019, 11:16:28 AM

Author Topic: Is there any love for warlord?  (Read 40228 times)

Boocheck

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Is there any love for warlord?
« on: June 13, 2013, 12:21:50 AM »
Warlord is not so popular among MW players, is there someone who actually loves him and also is succesful with him? :)
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baronzaltor

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 01:14:22 AM »
I want to like him, but he's really not very strong in a competitive sense.  Ive really really tried to make him work, but at the end of the day the best he can do is just be a weak version of something another mage can do better.

Being trained in War doesnt really help him.  Every mage already plays from the War school... all the go-to spells are Novice and Level 1 (battle fury, leather boots, piercing strike, perfect strike, charge, etc)  So he's really not getting much milege out of his own in school training.  Theres not any big level 3-4 spells that he is getting to take advantage of with his school other than creatures...and everyone has their own high level creatures anyway.  Sure he can run more copies of those spell.. but there is no real need to run 4 Battle Furies or 3 Gauntlets of Might, especially with his helmet. 

Then to salt the wound he pays triple for Arcane.. so he can barely run basic core cards like Dispel, Nullify and Teleport.

His exclusives are pretty mediocre (with the exception of Throg, who I love) his soldiers dont have as much synergy as a Beastmaster has with his Animals (no solid Soldier version of call of the wild, totems, animal kinship, staff of beasts, "bitter wood fox" soldiers with fast or "bobcats" with charge, no flying etc)  All he really has is the Horn, which prevents use of his own signature melee weapon, and veteran tokens which are tough to actually collect in most cases.   His outposts are weak when compared to totems, temples or altars.  He also has a familiar that isnt particularly useful. 

Basically hes made to shine in the late game, but he doesnt really feel like he has the tools to survive to late game or establish a solid war engine to get him there. 

MrSaucy

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 02:16:54 AM »
I want to like him, but he's really not very strong in a competitive sense.  Ive really really tried to make him work, but at the end of the day the best he can do is just be a weak version of something another mage can do better.

Exactly. He is built for swarming, but the Beastmaster is so much better at swarming that it isn't even funny. He can try the approach of relying on 2-3 medium creatures, but these creatures really don't have anything special about them. And he definitely doesn't have 1 huge game winning creature either; earth elemental is never effective enough to count. He can try soloing, but none of his attributes fit this role. Plus, Forcemaster and Warlock are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better when it comes to soloing anyways.


Being trained in War doesnt really help him.  Every mage already plays from the War school... all the go-to spells are Novice and Level 1 (battle fury, leather boots, piercing strike, perfect strike, charge, etc)  So he's really not getting much milege out of his own in school training.  Theres not any big level 3-4 spells that he is getting to take advantage of with his school other than creatures...and everyone has their own high level creatures anyway.  Sure he can run more copies of those spell.. but there is no real need to run 4 Battle Furies or 3 Gauntlets of Might, especially with his helmet. 


War has to be one of my least favorite schools of magic. No attack spells. Underwhelming creatures. Terrible enchantments (and not that many!). Predictable incantations that are never game changing and hardly versatile. The only creature I like of his is Iron Golem, but the Earth Wizard can play Iron Golem as he likes so it doesn't make the Warlord very special. I find War Sledge to be incredibly underwhelming. Not because it is a bad card but because it is more fitted towards a solo mage (a.k.a NOT a creature focused one!) You are right about his war incantations not having a lot of mileage. Why doesn't he get any really costly but really powerful incantations like the other schools of magic?


Then to salt the wound he pays triple for Arcane.. so he can barely run basic core cards like Dispel, Nullify and Teleport.


This too. (I would add Mage Wand to that list.) The triple arcane cost is absolutely terrible because Dispel is a mandatory card. I don't consider Nullify and Teleport as mandatory, but they are still very helpful spells. Beastmaster pays triple fire cost; no big deal... he doesn't need fire spells. Priestess pays triple for dark spells; no big deal... she doesn't need them. Warlock pays triple for holy spells; no big deal... he doesn't need healing with his brutal aggression and his life-draining cards. FM pays triple for non-mind creatures; no big deal... she doesn't need them! Warlord pays triple for arcane? Now this hurts a lot.


His exclusives are pretty mediocre (with the exception of Throg, who I love) his soldiers dont have as much synergy as a Beastmaster has with his Animals (no solid Soldier version of call of the wild, totems, animal kinship, staff of beasts, "bitter wood fox" soldiers with fast or "bobcats" with charge, no flying etc)  All he really has is the Horn, which prevents use of his own signature melee weapon, and veteran tokens which are tough to actually collect in most cases.   His outposts are weak when compared to totems, temples or altars.  He also has a familiar that isnt particularly useful. 


Thorg is the only exclusive I liked as well, but I didn't think his cost needed to be so darn high! I also wish he hadn't been legendary so you could have brought out multiples. Why can't I have multiple bodyguards? His creatures that are built for swarming never get the job done. He really only has goblin grunts for swarming. The BM, on the other hand, has a LOT of level 1 creatures to choose from, PLUS he can summon them as a quick action. His horn is nice, but I think his battle cries should have been able to effect the whole arena from the start. Plus, I can't have Horn + War Sledge? Wtf? The FM gets to wield Galvitar with one hand, which has sweeping. Why can't the Warlord's sweeping weapon also be one handed? For all the time I tried the Warlord, very rarely did any of my creatures become Veterans. The whole veteran system just didn't work. The Warlord should have been given some sort of "pet" ability. On top of all that, his Goblin Builders are just... don't even get me started on how useless they are.

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nitrodavid

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 03:12:14 AM »
we can hope that the female warlord (warlady?) could have a promotion skill instead of vet. where each turn you can promote any creature that has damaged an enemies. limit of 1 promotion per turn and does not stack. 
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Boocheck

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 04:07:05 AM »
Warlorderin shoudl be a dwarf :)

I dont have so many games under my belt, so i was not sure, if I play him wrong or not. In next expansion, there is some cards for Warlord (Akiros War Cry) which could make him more usefull.

Is there any posibility that warlord would be tweaked? Warlord 2.0? :)
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szendroib

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 04:20:17 AM »
I don't think he needs much tweaking, as the others mentioned war school needs some expensive spellbook-cost spells that will buff the school. Conquest of Kumanjaro will have some useful war cards (War cry, new trap, panzergarde, troll for example), so maybe it will be a good start to shift out the useless things from your pellbook.

Boocheck

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2013, 04:34:20 AM »
Hmm, so anyone who bought Warlord X FM expansion, will need to buy Kumanjaro to make warlord playable?
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szendroib

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2013, 06:53:00 AM »
Not sure, I guess he won't skyrocket with this expansion, maybe later. If you check out the dicetower promo cards, war school will get 2 1 handed weapons later down the line for 5 mana each, so than you will be able to dual wield one of them with horn. So I guess it will be a long way to reach his full potential, but 1 weaker mage out of 5 isn't that bad, and I'm sure someone out there can play him pretty well.

jacksmack

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2013, 10:04:12 AM »
I think i saw a pretty intersting ballista tower.

If i remember correctly i was a conjuration for 8 mana that has load tokens like the akuras.

It has a 5 dice attack with some piercing and 1-2 zones range. I believe this range and mana cost is easier to fit into an opening.
The first time it shoots it can be considered a bit of an expensive (not much though) attackspell.
Every second round thereafter a free decent hitting attack. I like it.

sIKE

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2013, 12:43:31 PM »
Akiro's Hammer - I literally drooled the first time I saw it, then read the fine print and jeered. Forgot all of this, played the Warlord and played this card. Cried at thelost cost of Mana, Action, and Spell Point Cost in Spellbook. I think this is the worst card to come out of the FvW set not the Goblin Builder as he can at least cast Conjurations for you. I hope for a Enchantment that you can attach to it to make it more anti-personnel, this of course would add to the already steep cost though...

 
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baronzaltor

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 12:57:05 PM »
Yeah, the Ballista in the Dicetower stuff is much better than Arkiros hammer.  And any mage can use it.

One of my main beefs with the Hammer is that it can only target corporal conjurations, or zones... which means an incorporeal wall (like wall of fire) literally shuts off its LOS until you go destroy it.

MrSaucy

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 04:29:41 PM »
Akiro's Hammer - I literally drooled the first time I saw it, then read the fine print and jeered. Forgot all of this, played the Warlord and played this card. Cried at thelost cost of Mana, Action, and Spell Point Cost in Spellbook. I think this is the worst card to come out of the FvW set not the Goblin Builder as he can at least cast Conjurations for you.

^ This describes my reaction also. I want more WAR MACHINES! More importantly, ones that are actually useful!!!

I also want a creature that can put load tokens on war machines as a full action.
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jacksmack

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 04:57:46 PM »
Akiro's Hammer - I literally drooled the first time I saw it, then read the fine print and jeered. Forgot all of this, played the Warlord and played this card. Cried at thelost cost of Mana, Action, and Spell Point Cost in Spellbook. I think this is the worst card to come out of the FvW set not the Goblin Builder as he can at least cast Conjurations for you.

^ This describes my reaction also. I want more WAR MACHINES! More importantly, ones that are actually useful!!!

I also want a creature that can put load tokens on war machines as a full action.

the builder should sooo much be able to do this like the priests can put mana on asyrum (name? the holy spawn point.).

reddawn

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 03:09:25 PM »
I really think that anyone who tries to play the Warlord similar to the Beastmaster is going to be sorely disappointed, and is doing the orc mage a great disservice. 

I also don't think it's a coincidence that players that are spamming creatures with the warlord are having trouble.  That's really not how you are supposed to play him.  After testing various Warlord builds over and over against tough Big X creature builds, the "swarm" builds and odd "sniper tower" builds that some players talk about are simply really subpar, if not downright awful, and certainly not competitive.

This isn't totally the fault of the players.  The mini-ruleset/intro included in the box implies that the Warlord needs to have a lot of creatures, when in reality that's very far from the truth.

The way to play the Warlord is really not terribly complicated, actually:

1.  Use Thorg.  Every game.  He's that good.  I hate playing against him.

2.  Use Iron Golems, especially against the Forcemaster and Warlock.  Their huge quick attack and various immunity traits makes them excellent guards, and the Warlord is really the only mage that can effectively Command them with spells like Charge, Whirling Strike, Battle Fury, etc. 

3. Dwarf Kriegsbiels and Sir Corazin seriously kick your ass in a hurry.  The amount of dice they get for their cost is ridiculous, and it only gets worse if (usually more like "when") they attain Veteran status.

4. Orc Butchers are very solid, very cheap meat shields.  They're nothing too crazy, like Thorg and Corazin, but they aren't supposed to be; you get a lot more than what you pay for, and that's enough.


5. Leave most of the Warlord's conjurations at home.  Maybe they have a place, but I haven't found it yet.  The only one that I've really seen work well is Quicksand.  It pretty much acts like a Teleport check; if your opponent has a teleport, cool.  If he doesn't, well...better hope that creature wasn't important (My poor Cervere :( )

6. I think the Warlord's Sledge is actually useful and worth its cost, unlike most weapons.  The sweeping attack it gives represents a 5 dice increase, with a decent chance to daze with each strike, and it can't be countered by elemental resistances.

The Warlord isn't meant to be a general, he's meant to lead a squad of elite soldiers with some monsters on the side.  Thorg, Iron Golems, Sir Corazin, Dwarves, and Butchers all fill that need very well; everything else seems to be pretty situational (that's ok, all mages have situational cards).  Beyond that, he has access to a powerful elemental school and awesome commands like Whirling Strike, which he can use over and over for a discount, unlike other mages.

My group stopped playing the Warlord as a "spammer" and more of a commander, and so far we've never looked back. 
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jacksmack

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 05:54:41 PM »
I really think that anyone who tries to play the Warlord similar to the Beastmaster is going to be sorely disappointed, and is doing the orc mage a great disservice. 

I also don't think it's a coincidence that players that are spamming creatures with the warlord are having trouble.  That's really not how you are supposed to play him.  After testing various Warlord builds over and over against tough Big X creature builds, the "swarm" builds and odd "sniper tower" builds that some players talk about are simply really subpar, if not downright awful, and certainly not competitive.

This isn't totally the fault of the players.  The mini-ruleset/intro included in the box implies that the Warlord needs to have a lot of creatures, when in reality that's very far from the truth.

The way to play the Warlord is really not terribly complicated, actually:

1.  Use Thorg.  Every game.  He's that good.  I hate playing against him.

2.  Use Iron Golems, especially against the Forcemaster and Warlock.  Their huge quick attack and various immunity traits makes them excellent guards, and the Warlord is really the only mage that can effectively Command them with spells like Charge, Whirling Strike, Battle Fury, etc. 

3. Dwarf Kriegsbiels and Sir Corazin seriously kick your ass in a hurry.  The amount of dice they get for their cost is ridiculous, and it only gets worse if (usually more like "when") they attain Veteran status.

4. Orc Butchers are very solid, very cheap meat shields.  They're nothing too crazy, like Thorg and Corazin, but they aren't supposed to be; you get a lot more than what you pay for, and that's enough.


5. Leave most of the Warlord's conjurations at home.  Maybe they have a place, but I haven't found it yet.  The only one that I've really seen work well is Quicksand.  It pretty much acts like a Teleport check; if your opponent has a teleport, cool.  If he doesn't, well...better hope that creature wasn't important (My poor Cervere :( )

6. I think the Warlord's Sledge is actually useful and worth its cost, unlike most weapons.  The sweeping attack it gives represents a 5 dice increase, with a decent chance to daze with each strike, and it can't be countered by elemental resistances.

The Warlord isn't meant to be a general, he's meant to lead a squad of elite soldiers with some monsters on the side.  Thorg, Iron Golems, Sir Corazin, Dwarves, and Butchers all fill that need very well; everything else seems to be pretty situational (that's ok, all mages have situational cards).  Beyond that, he has access to a powerful elemental school and awesome commands like Whirling Strike, which he can use over and over for a discount, unlike other mages.

My group stopped playing the Warlord as a "spammer" and more of a commander, and so far we've never looked back.

I havent managed to actually play the warlord, because its so darn hard to find people to play with.
But your input is grealtly appreciated and i will definately consider remaking my already completed warlord spellbook just because of this :)

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