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Author Topic: Is there any love for warlord?  (Read 41560 times)

HomelessJoe

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2013, 01:57:00 PM »
I was scratching my head wondering where you were going with that until I reached the last couple of sentences. Yes, a beginner friendly book is perfect for him, which speaks volumes.

Wiz-Pig

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2013, 07:35:45 PM »
tl/dr: Use the pathetic Warlord against total newbies, to play with a deliberate handicap.  Finally, a use for him! ; )

Ouch, and they didn't do much of anything to help him out with this release either. So yah this looks like the best use for Warloard at this point.

Aylin

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2013, 01:31:30 AM »
tl/dr: Use the pathetic Warlord against total newbies, to play with a deliberate handicap.  Finally, a use for him! ; )

Ouch, and they didn't do much of anything to help him out with this release either. So yah this looks like the best use for Warloard at this point.

Even worse than that; they instead put in the incredibly useless Meditation Amulet as opposed to something someone would actually use...

Shad0w

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2013, 11:50:23 AM »
tl/dr: Use the pathetic Warlord against total newbies, to play with a deliberate handicap.  Finally, a use for him! ; )

Ouch, and they didn't do much of anything to help him out with this release either. So yah this looks like the best use for Warloard at this point.

Even worse than that; they instead put in the incredibly useless Meditation Amulet as opposed to something someone would actually use...

I got out voted on Med.
I want 3 mana for a quick 6 mana for a full use once 1 a round
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


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Shad0w

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2013, 11:51:41 AM »
Odd my post count looks frozen. Been at 1977 for a while now. hmmmmmmmmmm............. ???

Only took like 5-10 to get 1978 very odd
 
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


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DeckBuilder

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2013, 12:17:04 PM »
I got out voted on Med.
I want 3 mana for a quick 6 mana for a full use once 1 a round

Maybe no quick action mana? Seems a bit too good at that level of selling actions.
Then there would be real choice and those spawnpoints would actually look tasty.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 12:28:03 PM by DeckBuilder »
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

Shad0w

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2013, 06:22:25 AM »
I got out voted on Med.
I want 3 mana for a quick 6 mana for a full use once 1 a round

Maybe no quick action mana? Seems a bit too good at that level of selling actions.
Then there would be real choice and those spawnpoints would actually look tasty.

That was another version I had. Prob was in most matches you never used the full action even for 6 mana.

Back to the topic
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 06:24:04 AM by Shad0w »
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


Quote: Shad0w the Arcmage

jacksmack

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2013, 08:08:13 AM »
I got out voted on Med.
I want 3 mana for a quick 6 mana for a full use once 1 a round

Maybe no quick action mana? Seems a bit too good at that level of selling actions.
Then there would be real choice and those spawnpoints would actually look tasty.


That was another version I had. Prob was in most matches you never used the full action even for 6 mana.

Back to the topic

im pretty sure 6 mana would be extremely overpowered.
The 3 mana is on the edge being viable.

I think this item would be perfect if it costed 1 mana to cast and gave 3 mana per full action meditation.

Wiz-Pig

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2013, 10:02:50 AM »
I got out voted on Med.
I want 3 mana for a quick 6 mana for a full use once 1 a round

Maybe no quick action mana? Seems a bit too good at that level of selling actions.
Then there would be real choice and those spawnpoints would actually look tasty.


That was another version I had. Prob was in most matches you never used the full action even for 6 mana.

Back to the topic

im pretty sure 6 mana would be extremely overpowered.
The 3 mana is on the edge being viable.

I think this item would be perfect if it costed 1 mana to cast and gave 3 mana per full action meditation.

What's your logic? In what sort of build would this function beneficially?

I do agree that costing it down 3 mana would make a huge difference. Another way to run it would have been to put 2 mana tokens on it each upkeep (max 10), and then allow the user to cash in by spending a full action. That's neither here nor there though, my sense is that since they have released a useless Meditation Amulet, we are never going to get one that actually functions now. Just a waste of card space with some nice art on it.

Boocheck

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2013, 01:32:09 PM »
Ok, i dont get it...

Akiros Battle Cry - 14 mana, EPIC, lvl 4 spell

All friendly soldier creatures in the arena gain the FAST and CHARGE +2 until end of the round

VS.

Zombie Frenzy - 9 mana, Common, lvl 2 spell

all zombies lose lumbering, slow, pest and gain FAST and BLOODTHIRSTY +1.

I am warlord fan thus my judgement is influenced. Can someone else point me, why i have a feeling that warlord is more and more useless when comes to small army game style? I want to play WARLORD not Orc earth wizzard or pop up sniper. :( I love the theme around him sooo much :(
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I am one with the force, the force is with me! (Warlord is still my fav mage ;) )

lettucemode

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2013, 03:01:54 PM »
I had a pretty good showing with the Warlord last night. The first game I opened with Battle Forge, which ended up being a mistake as I had very little mana to spare for equipment and I wasn't in melee range for most of the game anyway...I spent a couple of turns not using my quickcast action. That ended up deciding the game as my opponent, a Priestess, had enough time to put down Temple of Asyra, get out Brogan, and buff him up. Thorg went toe-to-toe with Brogan for several rounds, but my opponent's mana advantage let Brogan come out the other end unscathed with several enchantments on him. I surrendered.

The second game went much better. My opponent switched to a curse-and-demon Warlock and I ditched the War Sledge for a Horn of Gothos. I also skipped the Battle Forge. The general tactic I used was summon a creature on one round, then spend the next round buffing my existing creatures with Battle Orders and something else, then repeat. I got out two Orc Butchers and a Dwarf Panzerguarde to follow me around and they worked wonders, let me tell you. The Orc Butchers tore the arena apart with the help of the Charge spell bound to my Helm of Command. I won with about 20 life remaining.

Helm of Command is great, by the way. With the ring, you can cast most of the War incantations for 2 mana or less, and the ability to switch which spell is bound to it is really helpful when your opponent buffs a creature with armor (switch to Piercing Strike) or brings out a creature with Defense (hello Perfect Strike). I'm thinking of having two Helms and a Mage Wand in the book for the extra versatility if I need it.

I'm not satisfied with the book quite yet but I'll keep working on it. I've gotten a taste of what this guy can do and I am looking forward to figuring out the rest.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 03:06:03 PM by lettucemode »

IndyPendant

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2013, 04:55:25 PM »
Bear with me, this isn't just another of my "Warlord sucks!" posts. ; )

The Warlord really is a "What were they THINKING?!?" kind of a mage.  Let's look at some of the worst synergies that actively work *against* each other: (and doing a lot of paraphrasing of DB from another thread...)

1) The Barracks cannot summon soldiers to a Garrison. (buh...whut?)
2) The signature weapon, War Sledge, does not combine well with Whirling Strike or Battle Fury, because it only Dazes on a full-action attack.
3) War Sledge cannot be combined with Horn of Gothos. (how...i don't even...)
4) The already crappy, overcosted Outpost cards are the only Zone-Exclusive cards in the game that have an additional limitation where they cannot be placed adjacent to each other, making them even less playable.
5) The best creature in the Warlord's arsenal--Iron Golem--is Slow and not a Soldier, and so pretty much useless to the Warlord.

There are many more, but these are the biggest issues.  However!  These are all 20-20 hindsight issues, and FM vs WL was the first expansion to the game.  Did they screw up with the Warlord?  Yes, and very, very badly.  Are they learning from their mistakes?  ...Possibly.  Let's look at the Druid vs Necromancer expansion.

1) Meditation Amulet.  Ugh, okay, blatantly obvious, unarguably bad inclusion.  But...nobody's perfect...?
2) And...uh...well.  We're done.

There are a number of questionable cards that seem borderline too weak (Deathshroud Staff, Icthellid), or borderline too strong (Zombie Brute).  There are a number of strategic-level decisions made that seem a little strange as well, such as (probably) not enough Corrode or Swarm support to change the Big Few game dynamic, and the fact that the Necromancer has little defense against flying.  But my point is, at this early we-haven't-played-it-yet stage, besides the amulet there isn't anything in here that is clearly and unarguably a poor choice.

Boocheck, your comments are valid...and leave me hopeful.  When you compare what the Necromancer and Druid are getting to what's already in the game--and for the most part, not being used--that tells me that the creators are actually watching what's happening out here in the real world, and adjusting their plans accordingly.  Is Zombie Frenzy significantly better than Akiro's Battle Cry?  Absolutely!  It should be.  I have never seen Akiro's Battle Cry in play, and would be shocked if I ever did.  That card is too horrible to even include in my Warlord Trainer book (which is a real thing btw; I wasn't joking in my previous post, I've created the book and it's ready to play vs newbies).

In my opinion, cards that are better than previous similar versions printed, like Zombie Frenzy, Death Ring, and Reassemble, indicate that AW is learning from its mistakes.  A good sign! : )
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 11:20:57 PM by IndyPendant »

Quibleon

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2013, 12:21:17 PM »
I might be raising the dead in this thread, and I am not very 'on' the changes that are on the way, but the Warlord really seemed to me as the weakest mage from the current 6 [DvN in the way].  The outpost zone limitation is just the worst part for me, but it comes with more. First, Barracs is the only Spawn point that makes your mage cast other conjurations to be minimally usefull, which means you are already behind the others. This conjurations do NOT receive any bonus from outpost, and are actually very mediocre themselves. Horn can't be used with Sledge, wut? But what really puts me down is the goblin grunt. Just, really. Its just like the Bitterwood fox and the Bobcat, except weaker for no reason. Fox has fast, Bobcat has charge, Goblin has...uselessness [if that is a word].
I also disagree a bit with what was said: the fact that AW is fixing mistakes on upcoming expansions is awesome, but it also just makes it even more clear that the Warlord is underpowered, and it seems like he is not a favorite, since he is not receiving any buff. I do not think its needed to change the mage card, but the spells are very subpar and in need of some love. I hope next expansion brings some better options for him, or even DvN [as I did not see all cards spoilers, but that does not seem the case].

Anyway, I do not get tired of saying this, but the game is awesome. AW, I love you guys, but please, give some love to Warlord as well.

XD

Aylin

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2013, 05:03:43 PM »
I might be raising the dead in this thread, and I am not very 'on' the changes that are on the way, but the Warlord really seemed to me as the weakest mage from the current 6 [DvN in the way].  The outpost zone limitation is just the worst part for me, but it comes with more. First, Barracs is the only Spawn point that makes your mage cast other conjurations to be minimally usefull, which means you are already behind the others. This conjurations do NOT receive any bonus from outpost, and are actually very mediocre themselves. Horn can't be used with Sledge, wut? But what really puts me down is the goblin grunt. Just, really. Its just like the Bitterwood fox and the Bobcat, except weaker for no reason. Fox has fast, Bobcat has charge, Goblin has...uselessness [if that is a word].
I also disagree a bit with what was said: the fact that AW is fixing mistakes on upcoming expansions is awesome, but it also just makes it even more clear that the Warlord is underpowered, and it seems like he is not a favorite, since he is not receiving any buff. I do not think its needed to change the mage card, but the spells are very subpar and in need of some love. I hope next expansion brings some better options for him, or even DvN [as I did not see all cards spoilers, but that does not seem the case].

Anyway, I do not get tired of saying this, but the game is awesome. AW, I love you guys, but please, give some love to Warlord as well.

XD

A couple of things...

The Hammer wasn't meant to be used at the same time as the Horn. The hammer was designed to help the Warlord fulfill an "in your face melee" role (a sweeping 50% daze attack is amazing), while the horn was designed to help him fill a support role.

Having to cast extra Outposts wouldn't be a mark against the Barracks if they released Outposts that the Warlord would want to cast anyway. Quite frankly I think they should make Outposts that give global benefits to soldiers, like the totems that animals have. I really do think they need to drop the adjacency rule either way.

Goblin Grunt is pretty comparable to a Feral Bobcat (assuming animal totems aren't in consideration). Bitterwood Fox just outclasses either of them though. The main detriment against the Goblin Grunt is that there isn't any reasonable way to give them buffs (aside from Fortified Position and Sacred Ground, both of which are a little dubious in value).

The main problem with the Warlord is the triple arcane costs, combined with the fact that Wizards can have the Earth School with no detriment and the even more frustrating fact that the War school is kinda weak itself. Every major school has some decent creatures, and the War school is no exception (Grimson, Thorg, Sir Corazin, Dwarf Panzerguarde, etc), but it falls behind in pretty much every other category. It doesn't have many enchantments that buff creatures (just Fortified Position [dubious value] and Retaliate [destroys self after use]), the best incantations are either Novice or level 1 aside from Whirling Strike, and the War conjurations are pretty weak aside from Battleforge (wall of pikes lacks piercing, outposts need work).

Some solutions to the above:

Better War enchantments: releasing Akiro's Favor and Critical Strike will help a lot, though those are both level 1. While I can see War giving melee or armour +X, I'm not sure they will since those are already in the Nature school. I would love to see a level 2 (or 3) enchantment that gives you the option or turning a quick melee attack into a full sweeping attack, an enchantment that adds an effect die to attacks (such as daze or bleed) or a piercing damage barrier (ex. Spiked Armor, level 2 War, damage barrier = 2 dice and +2 piercing). Basically we need more enchantments, and a few that won't often get stolen by other mages.

Better War conjurations: Altar of the Iron Guard will help, but most important new Outposts that give global buffs to soldiers.

Releasing the one-handed War weapons/shield (though most mages will like that).

Either non-Arcane or Novice alternatives to Dispel, Nullify, and Teleport. The fact that so many spells that are practically required for mages are in the Arcane school is a real problem for the Warlord.
Example spells:
Minor Dispel, incantation, cost =X, level 1 Arcane, Novice, destroy target level 1 revealed enchantment, X=casting cost of the enchantment
Tunnel through Earth, incantation, cost =8, level 2 Earth, targets non-flying corporeal creatures, move target creature up to 2 zones away (this is considered a teleport)
I'm not quite sure about Nullify. Perhaps something similar to Armor Ward to help reduce the dependence on Nullify?

Finally, I don't know if the Warlord needs this, but I'd love to see a Warlord-only Earth spell, just so the Wizard can't have every Earth spell the Warlord can have. Something like Adramelech (4 War/2 Earth) would be fine (Wizard could still take it but would be discouraged from doing so).

Zuberi

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Re: Is there any love for warlord?
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2013, 06:35:44 PM »
I pretty much agree with everything Aylinis said. I'm hoping that Forged in Flame will release the alternate Warlord and Warlock like someone suggested on boardgamegeek. With it's stated release being only 3 months away, I'm guessing we'll hear confirmation on this pretty soon along with card spoilers. I can't wait and really really hope the Warlord gets the love he deserves.