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Author Topic: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book  (Read 59132 times)

Fentum

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2013, 07:03:24 AM »

I'm with Nitrodavid on this one. Elemental Cloak is 'great' but not 'essential'.

Is everyone agreed on Dispel, Dissolve and Teleport, from the OP?

What if you only had a single choice?

For me, it would be a tough choice but it would be Dispel. Then Dissolve. Then  Teleport. That's it for essential.


cbalian

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2013, 08:17:42 AM »
Great discussion folks, I appreciate the feedback.  When I started this thread I wasn't sure it was going to go this direction, but it is really informative to a new mageling like myself.

I've debated the armor thing (balance of armor vs defense) quite a bit so this has been helpful to me.

I always use dissolve and dispel but I've never put a Teleport in any of my decks (including the Wizard).  Anything outside of the Wizard it seems like a large amount of spell points for what it does.  Since it appears several of you use it and I have never used it, what type of scenarios do you find it so essential?

It seems to me at best it is a costly way to buy you 1 maybe 2 turns of safety.  Do you use it to teleport creatures away or toss your creatures in faster or move yourself out of danger?  Or any of the above depending on the situation?  I just think with a cost of 3-9 mana I could find other stuff to spend that much mana on.  But that is probably from my own inexperience with it.

Against a slow creature I could see it being hugely helpful but any other creature will be back in your face in 2 turns.

Fentum

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2013, 09:14:09 AM »

'All of the above'

With a wizard, I tend to stick teleport in a wand as it is so useful to that Mage. With others, it is the flexibility that makes it worthwhile. Getting your Mage out of trouble. Putting an opponent into trouble. Moving a friendly creature without using its action. Etc, etc.

reddawn

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2013, 10:52:47 AM »
I don't believe you should put multiple Teleports in every book, that's just an unwieldy amount of spellbook points.  As a one-of, however, it's a very useful catch-all spell.

I've personally found that the low-mana War School commands are more useful to my typical aggressive style.  Charge, Evade, Battle Fury, Power Strike, etc are all great Quick-Cast surprises to use right as you activate a creature.  Whirling Strike on Adramelech is particularly brutal, if your opponent doesn't see it coming.
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Zuberi

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2013, 11:33:23 AM »
I'm still kind of a mageling myself, but I put teleports in all of my spellbooks and here's why: In mage wars, the whole point of the board is that positioning matters. And teleport lets you control positioning. You can split up your enemies, regroup your allies, retreat to safety, go on a blitzkrieg offensive, the list goes on.

Some examples of play from my experiences:

Breaking up Enemy defenses: I had an opponent who was turtling in a corner. Not the brightest of moves to begin with, but with 3 creatures and himself in the corner I didn't really want to go in after him. So, I teleported him out of the Zone and put up a wall of stone and extended it so that the creatures were all trapped in the corner completely harmless.

Staying out of Reach: Another opponent I went up against focused on beefing up his own melee attacks through the roof. I had lots of fun with two gorgon archers applying weak tokens to him. He couldn't decide what to attack, because every time he went after an archer or my mage, I would teleport it away and he'd get 2 weak tokens, until eventually he was completely impotent and conceded.

Bring out the Big Guns: I like to use teleport to utilize the Full Action attacks on my creatures too. It's one of my favorite strategies. Either teleport them to the creature or the creature to them depending on the situation, as a Quick Cast of course, and then immediately do a Full Action attack for crap tons of damage. Such as Grizzly Bear 7 dice or Hydra Triple Strike.

cbalian

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2013, 01:29:18 PM »
Hmm yes I see the value, I just have been having a hard time justifying that many spell book points (in a non Wizard deck).  I could try to at least toss one in though and keep it in my back pocket for the right situation (which I can see several now that you mention its uses).  That is my favorite thing about this game you have access to your full spell book every round and don't have to wait to "get lucky" to draw the good cards or what you need in a particular situation.

nitrodavid

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2013, 06:19:07 PM »
how about something along this line, all decks should have a card that does a certain effect then list the cards. you should have at least one card in each category.

de-equipt: explosion, dissolve
 dispel: dispel, destroy magic
 armour: chest, ele cloak, book
mana efficient damage: creatures, weapons
burst damage: attack spells, battle fury
avoid guard: elusive, creatures, ranged attacks
life regen: regrowth/belt, vampire, heal, life drain.

 etc
you can see how this will better help new players as they can find a neccesary spell for each deck
Being Aussie we place all our cards face down, apart from enchantments which are face up

Paleblue

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2013, 07:40:48 PM »
Hmm yes I see the value, I just have been having a hard time justifying that many spell book points (in a non Wizard deck).  I could try to at least toss one in though and keep it in my back pocket for the right situation (which I can see several now that you mention its uses).  That is my favorite thing about this game you have access to your full spell book every round and don't have to wait to "get lucky" to draw the good cards or what you need in a particular situation.

It may depend on who you are playing with, but as your game evolves you start to realise that positional plays become essential and teleport is what can bring the pain / avoid it. It can also be used to counter some spells for example vines / quicksand and also to a lesser extent force hold.

nitrodavid

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2013, 08:20:58 PM »
forgot to mention
movement: teleport, teleport trap, force push/bash/wave
Being Aussie we place all our cards face down, apart from enchantments which are face up

cbalian

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2013, 09:26:06 AM »
how about something along this line, all decks should have a card that does a certain effect then list the cards. you should have at least one card in each category.

de-equipt: explosion, dissolve
 dispel: dispel, destroy magic
 armour: chest, ele cloak, book
mana efficient damage: creatures, weapons
burst damage: attack spells, battle fury
avoid guard: elusive, creatures, ranged attacks
life regen: regrowth/belt, vampire, heal, life drain.

 etc
you can see how this will better help new players as they can find a neccesary spell for each deck

That actually is kind of where I was going with it.  I probably meant to say what "types" of things are needed and maybe not specific cards because it does depend on the individual mage.  Having something in each "category" to handle something or perform X action is a good way to go about it.  Like I said I am a mageling and only played a dozen games or so. 

What I am finding is cards that I go to more often and some cards in my box I almost never use.

I've also been trying to build more "themed" decks to actually get use out of some of the cards that I don't use so I don't end up playing the same strategy over and over.  Just because you know you can win doesn't make it fun, I like the challenge.

So far my only sets of cards I really focus on (regardless of mage) is:
Action advantage:  I like to take more actions per turn than my opponent
** so I try to use spawnpoints/familiars/battleforges - the more I have familiars and spawnpoints summoning things the more actions I have to attack with my mage or cast other stuff

Mana advantage: I like to regen more many per turn than my opponent so I can take advantage of those extra action phases.  Wizard my favorite for this, with my opponent regening only 6 mana per turn and me regening 14+ mana per round I can cast a big creature or extra big spell every turn

Armor/Defense:  So far I haven't quite found the sweet spot here.  I generally try to have 3 points of armor and 3 things to deflect.  I don't normally get hit with more than 4 things in a turn anyways and if I do get hit 3 armor points seems sufficient?

Life management:  I'm actually thinking about taking healing spells out of all of my decks, as it is now I am down to 1-2 heal spells but in the last 6 games I have played I never cast a single heal spell, and in the last 3 games I have played I never took a single point of damage to my mage so heal spells seem a waste of spell points.  I kind of am nervous to take them out though because as soon as I do that is when I will need them lol.  It is like if you bring an umbrella it won't rain, but if you don't have one it will rain.  I like to be prepared.

I do run regrowth belt, regrowth enchantment, and vamparism in pretty much every deck so prefer that method of "passive" healing because I don't have to use an action or quick action to cast a spell, and can get an extra attack in.

Damage output:  Lately I have found myself removing almost all attack spells, and most every incantation.  They are situationally good (and necessary) but if I have the choice to spend mana to cast a spell or cast a creature I seem to like to cast a creature because it will have a longer effect on game than a spell.  The only spell I really like to run is Force Hammers (I kill annoying conjurations or spawn points as soon as my opponent casts them) and I do like Battle Fury for extra damage output as well.

Creatures of course for the bulk of damage (plus they can guard me too if needed).

I'm a big fan of "weapon" damage over "spell damage" since weapon damage is so much more mana efficient.  If I whack someone or shoot a bow it doesn't cost me mana, so I can build my mana up or use spawnpoints/familiars to cast stuff while I hit stuff.

Utility:  I definitely run dispels/dissolves, sometimes steal equipment

So do you think it would be a mistake to drop all heal spells from my deck?  If I'm running regrowth & vamparism?

sIKE

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2013, 04:29:15 PM »
Even against Piercing Armor stacks so if you add the Elemental Cloak you are now at a AC of 2. With most default attacks falling in the 3-4 dice range this is significant. As for the quality of the cloak, not only does it increase AC it decrease Flame/Frost/Lighting Attacks by 2 dice but makes the effects rolls more difficult to succeed. For 6 mana it is a very strong piece of equipment. IMHO of course :)
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Paleblue

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2013, 06:11:22 PM »

So do you think it would be a mistake to drop all heal spells from my deck?  If I'm running regrowth & vamparism?

I honestly think that you can drop the healing. With well played blocks (to stop huge damage) + regrowth and vamp you shouldn't need heal. I find most times when people cast healing spells they have already lost the game, I guess it could help out in a real cliff hanger situation - but even then i'm not sold.


nitrodavid

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2013, 06:39:53 PM »
apart from the priestess who gets divine reward I don't carry any heals in my books. even then I only have lay hands and regular heal.

a full heal is really only as good as a strong attack (8 dice damage is common). there are some situation where I find it valuable.
1. you are going to loose but want to stall time for a draw.
 2. you have a swarm or other forms of damage that will kill other mage by the end of turn but he can kill you with quick+full turn combo. (note you can't stop both attacks with block/ reverse because the first attack will reveal both enchantments)

both these cases are pretty rare so I don't bother planning for them (apart from priestess)
Being Aussie we place all our cards face down, apart from enchantments which are face up

cbalian

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2013, 08:52:55 PM »
I was thinking the same thing.  The couple times I've seen my opponent bust out a heal spell on himself it was kind of an "oh heck I better do something or die" and it really only bought him 1 turn.

I was really on the fence but I'm feeling more confident about dropping heal spells from my decks and using those spell points elsewhere. 

They might be nice to save a creature that is buffed up with enchants I guess, but otherwise I might as well spend the spell points and just summon a new creature.

And like we said kind of a waste to cast on the mage.  I've only played 15 games so far, so still kind of new, but I've never taken more than 10 points of damage in any game, and most games only 1-2 damage for the entire game so regrowth belt, vamparism has always more than covered me.

Thanks.

nitrodavid

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Re: A "Base" set of cards ALL Mages should have in there book
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2013, 09:15:49 PM »
for non holy mages heal cost 4 points so it is often similar to adding an additional lvl 4 creature (extra mana balances extra versatility).
Being Aussie we place all our cards face down, apart from enchantments which are face up