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Author Topic: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla  (Read 17965 times)

patrickconnor

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ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« on: July 19, 2013, 02:29:39 PM »


Hand of Bim-Shalla:

This spell now has the “Unique” trait. Unique – Each player may only have one (1) copy of this object in play at a time.

Koz

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 06:53:31 PM »
The real power of the Hands were it's ability to stack.  Now...meh.

Do not like.   >:(

Overreaction to the results of a single tournament IMO.  This puts a bad taste in my mouth for this game honestly.

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 07:06:26 PM »
I am sorry to hear that Koz.

I'm sure there was more then just one tournament that factored into this decision.

I think alot of players even at home were finding that this combo of HoBS was being used outside of the cards intentions, and it seems like it was a problem for alot of people.

The card still has a purpose, and is a good card IMO even being unique.

And in the future there might be more cards that can utilize this card to a better effect.

I know in my games, a Buddy Build Priest would use up to 6 of these and it made for some less then fun games.

And compared to some other games that are even newer then Mage Wars, this is a very small change, with very little errata and I think they are trying there hardest to keep it that way.

I doubt this was an easy decision for them, and know they donot handle errata lightly.

Point being, I respect your opinion, but I highly doubt this was due to one tournament.   
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
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haslo

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 07:10:55 PM »
Do you have these replacements available at higher resolution? I've got a good printer and would like to make my semi-official replacement proxies look good, not pixelated.

Edit: Yes, they're linked in higher resolution from the blog post:

http://magewars.com/jsite/images/Temple%20of%20Light%20-%20UPDATED%20660%20px.jpg
http://magewars.com/jsite/images/Hand%20of%20BimShalla%20-%20UPDATED%20660%20px.jpg
http://magewars.com/jsite/images/Battle%20Fury%20-%20UPDATED%20660%20px.jpg

I'm not really in a position to judge game balance, but this seems awfully early for such a strong nerf indeed...
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 07:19:20 PM by haslo »

Koz

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 07:32:28 PM »
I am sorry to hear that Koz.

I'm sure there was more then just one tournament that factored into this decision.

I think alot of players even at home were finding that this combo of HoBS was being used outside of the cards intentions, and it seems like it was a problem for alot of people.

The card still has a purpose, and is a good card IMO even being unique.

And in the future there might be more cards that can utilize this card to a better effect.

I know in my games, a Buddy Build Priest would use up to 6 of these and it made for some less then fun games.

And compared to some other games that are even newer then Mage Wars, this is a very small change, with very little errata and I think they are trying there hardest to keep it that way.

I doubt this was an easy decision for them, and know they donot handle errata lightly.

Point being, I respect your opinion, but I highly doubt this was due to one tournament.

They should have made it level 2.  That would have reduced the number of copies in books, as well as increasing the cost to put them in for non-Holy Mages.  That would have been a decent fix without gutting the card.  Just seems excessive.

sIKE

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2013, 07:36:48 PM »
The real power of the Hands were it's ability to stack.  Now...meh.

Do not like.   >:(

Overreaction to the results of a single tournament IMO.  This puts a bad taste in my mouth for this game honestly.

I quite agree, very bad taste in mouth.
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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 07:45:49 PM »
Personally I'm not concerned with this change. But I can certainly see how people who sunk money into getting enough copies of this to cheese it's ability would be very upset. I have to agree that it seems like changing the level of the card would have been a better move at least from a PR perspective. I can't speak to game balance issues especially considerations going forward.

Tacullu64

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2013, 07:46:33 PM »
I am sorry to hear that Koz.

I'm sure there was more then just one tournament that factored into this decision.

I think alot of players even at home were finding that this combo of HoBS was being used outside of the cards intentions, and it seems like it was a problem for alot of people.

The card still has a purpose, and is a good card IMO even being unique.

And in the future there might be more cards that can utilize this card to a better effect.

I know in my games, a Buddy Build Priest would use up to 6 of these and it made for some less then fun games.

And compared to some other games that are even newer then Mage Wars, this is a very small change, with very little errata and I think they are trying there hardest to keep it that way.

I doubt this was an easy decision for them, and know they donot handle errata lightly.

Point being, I respect your opinion, but I highly doubt this was due to one tournament.

They should have made it level 2.  That would have reduced the number of copies in books, as well as increasing the cost to put them in for non-Holy Mages.  That would have been a decent fix without gutting the card.  Just seems excessive.

Although that would be better they shouldn't even have done that. This was unnecessary in the current environment. Is it because of future design considerations?

I'm with Koz on this. It decreases the games appeal for me and I rarely use HoB.

@Patrick Conner.

Errata usually comes with an explanation. Could we please have one.

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2013, 07:50:39 PM »
I know I run some in my favorite forcemaster build..but it really isn't going to affect my overall love of this game, nor it going to make it any less fun playing every week for 12 hours.

I have been mad at errata before,so I understand. I have had $150 cards become banned after obtaining 4 of them for my deck...and no matter how mad it has made me, it has not gotten in the way of me loving and playing a game.

To me, this is such a small change, some games that have came out after Mage Wars like netrunner,DC and Marvel deck building games have had more errata then this, and it has not got in the way for the fans to continue loving their game.

Just putting my thoughts out there.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

Tacullu64

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 08:33:55 PM »
I know I run some in my favorite forcemaster build..but it really isn't going to affect my overall love of this game, nor it going to make it any less fun playing every week for 12 hours.

I have been mad at errata before,so I understand. I have had $150 cards become banned after obtaining 4 of them for my deck...and no matter how mad it has made me, it has not gotten in the way of me loving and playing a game.

To me, this is such a small change, some games that have came out after Mage Wars like netrunner,DC and Marvel deck building games have had more errata then this, and it has not got in the way for the fans to continue loving their game.

Just putting my thoughts out there.

Fair enough thats your opinion and you know I respect you and your opinions.

I loathe errata and bannings. As I stated in another post I believe they are bad for games even when they are necessary. I am withholding my decision on my MW future pending an explanation. If I'm convinced it was necessary I'll stick with it, but reserve the right to grumble under my breath about it. Up to this point we still haven't received an official explanation. If they have been discussing this since May they should have their reasons firmed up and like I said in my first post errata usually comes complete with the reasons for it.

Shad0w

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ringkichard

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2013, 11:07:44 PM »
I suspect Hand was intended to be versatile utility, and a temple, so it would power up other temples. Like Garrison Post in the Warlord book, it's supposed to be comparable in cost to Mana Flower and Mana Crystal, and power up the spawn point while doing some work on the side. It's not supposed to be the "Well, now I'm a 9 die melee god" card it became. No single card is ever supposed to do that.

Mage Wars is very careful to limit mono-culture and stacking, so when we found a stackable mono-culture... that was a good sign that something probably went wrong.

Here were the warning signs for Hand of Bim-Shalla:
Level 1, so 6 are legal per book, but only 1 in the base set, and only 1 each in the spell tomes.
Stackable bonus that doesn't require being attached to anything. Attachment is the throttle for stackable.
Ranged effect with no minimum or maximum range.
Free quasi-action for uninterpretable combos.

So a lot of people probably stuck them into their tournament builds: congratulations, you beat the game, or at least you learned what beats the game online. But they can't let the game stay beaten, right?

You want to go at it again? How-about best two out of three? Try to break some other card. Here're some avenues for exploration:

Hand of Bim-Shalla isn't the only melee bonus that'll stack.
There are other Conjurations that can act without passing priority to your opponent.
Enchantments are even faster than ready-marker Conjurations, actually.
No one has broken a Novice spell yet, but Novice is code for, "When this is broken, every book will use it."

It's a vast and fertile territory: a target rich environment. If you don't get to it, someone else will first!
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haslo

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2013, 03:31:29 AM »
some games that have came out after Mage Wars like netrunner,DC and Marvel deck building games have had more errata then this
I don't know about the others, Android:Netrunner didn't have to revise card wordings so far. Some card clarifications were not intuitive to some, admittedly.

Either way, the fact that one of my prime motivations for getting a second Core Spell Tome 1 was that it had another Hand of Bin-Shalla does tell me that I too was maybe just a bit too intrigued by how powerful it was pre-nerf  :P

ringkichard

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2013, 08:49:18 AM »
Yeah, seriously. People were paying $30 per Hand. This isn't supposed to be that type of game.
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VoDDster

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Re: ERRATA - Hand of Bim-Shalla
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2014, 06:24:27 AM »
Hi
Can i find the garrisonpost errata somewhere so i can print it out like the Hand of Bim-Shalla?

Greetings Voddster
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 06:37:21 AM by VoDDster »