November 14, 2018, 03:58:15 PM

Author Topic: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output  (Read 9357 times)

Charmyna

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The basic Idea is to dominate your opponent via increasing your channeling (nothing special here). The very very important point is :You need to do this slowly!
If you go too far you wont be able to fight back the opponent if he decides to rush. To master this strategy alot of experience is needed since you need to anticipate the opponents moves to find out what you can do and what not. Adapting to the opponents moves is key to being ahead of him (this might sound strange since adapting seems reactive, but still its true).


To make my point clear, let me define the following:
Combat Action: This is an action that aims at increasing your damage output or at decreasing your opponents damage output.
Channeling Action: This is an action that increases your channeling.

Especially in the first rounds, you need to choose wisely how much channeling actions you can afford without falling too far behind your opponent combat action wise. It is fine if you are one combat action behind your opponent, since if he wants to attack you, he has to move to you which gives you time to react. Being two combat actions behind can be a problem which you might be able to handle or not depending on builds and game experience. But, if you are more than two combat actions behind the opponent, you will find yourself seriously troubled very soon. Btw having one more channeling than the opponent often is enough to be successful in the long run no need to risk this by building up even more channeling.


Here are some examples of how to adapt to the opponents moves:
In the first round spend 1-2 channeling actions. Your actions in round 2 depend a lot on your opponents actions in round 1:

If the opponent used two channeling actions, cast a strong creature and use another channeling action.

If he used one or less channeling actions in round 1, you should not use a channeling action in round 2 at all!

Especially if you can foresee that in round 2 the opponent will be in range and will have enough mana to cast 2 fireballs, cast a rhino hide or dragonscale hauberk on yourself with the quickcast in round 2! This is important because otherwise you might end up with 16 damage after round 2, which often is too much to recover. If you play a wizard, you might be able to survive a few more rounds since the voltaric shield absorbs alot of damage. But still, I would not advice to eat two fireballs without any form of damage reduction.


To summon up, let me emphasize how important it is to keep the balance between channeling and combat actions! I would say, from all those games I won in Octgn even after the ToL+Hand errata, the overwhelming majority of games was won because of a better channeling-combat balance compared to the opponent. I hope these ideas are helpful to you and I am looking forward to see your thoughts about this.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 07:40:50 AM by Charmyna »

Arlemus

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2013, 08:25:20 AM »
This may be the most important concept in mage wars, at least in terms of setting yourself up for success.  I also feel like the natural channeling of each mage heavily influences decisions in this regard, because as you say even having 1 more channeling than your opponent can make a huge difference.
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cbalian

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2013, 09:52:36 AM »
Extra channeling definitely makes a difference (unless the opponent is running high aggro/rush), and even then it still helps.  I liked your comment of balancing action advantage vs mana/channeling advantage.  Every game I have more channeling then my opponent I've won and I feel it is a significant factor (not the ONLY factor of course) but it is one of the keys to success.

I usually try to target a gap of 4 points of channeling (ie I channel 4 more mana than the opponent).  That can be accomplished by denying them mana/making them pay upkeep for their creatures and of course increasing your channeling.  If you are channeling 4 mana more per turn then them, every 5 turns you get to cast a big 20 mana cost creature or two medium creatures or extra spells, it all adds up over time.  It becomes a game of overwhelming them which they can't get caught up from.

You can't go total mana denial and focus on your channeling though or you get steamrolled while you do it but toss a creature add mana, toss a creature deny some mana, toss a spell add more mana etc seems to work for me.

piousflea

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2013, 03:52:58 PM »
If you're building up 4 more channeling than your opponent, but he is rolling 8 more damage dice per round for free, he is way ahead.

Never forget that the objective of the game is to kill the other guy. Mana is only useful because it can produce damage or prevent damage. Damage is the endpoint.

reddawn

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2013, 02:45:01 AM »
If you're building up 4 more channeling than your opponent, but he is rolling 8 more damage dice per round for free, he is way ahead.

Never forget that the objective of the game is to kill the other guy. Mana is only useful because it can produce damage or prevent damage. Damage is the endpoint.

QFT.

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Fentum

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2013, 03:53:05 AM »
If you're building up 4 more channeling than your opponent, but he is rolling 8 more damage dice per round for free, he is way ahead.

Never forget that the objective of the game is to kill the other guy. Mana is only useful because it can produce damage or prevent damage. Damage is the endpoint.

QFT.

QFT?

tarkin84

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 04:26:18 AM »
Quoted for truth, maybe?
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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2013, 11:02:03 AM »
A nice kind of rule I go by: If the way I am playing or the way my opponent is playing is by trying to end the game quickly, often I won't the see the game long enough to get the benefits of an extra channeling as opposed to just saving my mana, or casting things that will help my economy without increasing my channeling such as ring of beasts, arcane ring, etc. If I am playing for the long game, I will usually try to increase my channeling to the average amount of mana I will need a turn. I do this by actually planning out my openings, adding up the two cards I cast per round (If I do cast two cards), and then divide by the number of rounds I added. Thus:

Round 1: Mana Crystal+Mana Crystal= 10
Round 2: Grizzly+ Ring of beasts= 18
Round 3: Hurl boulder+ Hurl Rock= 12

Sum of all the parts: 40/3= 13.333 channeling.

This number is a good number for me to use if when I want to start banking my mana. I know that I will probably use around 13-14 mana a turn, so, if I am channeling 12, I will want to probably save 2-3 mana a round at least. This obviously becomes skewed based on the opponent and what he is doing, but as a base number, it has really helped me to figure out the mana I am using, and how to best conserve it. As far as how much channeling to gain, I usually want to gain enough channeling to where I only have to save 1-2 mana a turn in order to meet the average mana consumption a round.

What we need to keep in mind as players, though, is that no matter how efficiently we spend our mana, what isn't being used to better your position to kill the mage is wasted mana and time. the more time we spend building a good channeling is the more time we spend not killing the mage. Now, there are some cases where building a really high channeling is the key to winning (see Mana Denial Wizard), but this is not the norm, and should be taken into account as such.

There are 4 different kinds of resources in the game: Damage, mana, cards, and actions. Mana is the foundation for all of these resources to not just exist, but exist efficiently. So, instead of figuring out the balance of channeling to damage output, I think what needs to be figured out is mana spent vs. damage output, and then working your way from there. If I spend more mana and do less damage, I am effectively losing the game, and the same goes for the opponent.

Interesting discussion!

Oh, and it is Quoted for Truth!
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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2013, 04:07:00 PM »
I agree it isn't so much how much mana you have but what you do with it.  Extra mana by itself won't win a game for you.  However if I am regenning 4 more mana per turn then every few turns I can bring out an extra mid range creature that my opponent can not, or in 5 turns cast a 20 mana creature.  Or any combinations of extra spells/nukes etc...so indirectly it does add to extra damage and extra actions.  Using up 1-2 actions early on to give you several extra actions/attacks/creatures later is good if not playing a rush build.

You are right though it has to be done in the right situation to make it viable.  So far the extra mana advantage has worked for me because my opponent builds up in their corner and amasses an army so I have time too.

Fentum

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2013, 04:16:16 PM »

It ain't whatcha do, it's the way that you do it.

Charmyna

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 12:34:20 AM »
Any new thoughts? Since its such an important concepts, I hoped more would express their feelings :).

aquestrion

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 01:57:17 AM »
Although most people use channeling items asap I sometime use them later in the game to give me a need boost to my strategic advantage. Examples are if I'm a FM using solo mage with galvitar I would play a moon glow amulet to deter my opp from wanting to dissolve it knowing I channel 11 I can bring it back out immeadiatly

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2013, 05:13:47 AM »
I focus more on actual openings vs different strategys rather than hitting a certain channeling mark.

The more channeling i can get within a decent / good opening the better.

If i have a less flexible spellbook (such as a warlord wolf build), then i just focus on my own opening and keeping in mind i have to change plans from round 3 (mana siphon, upkeeps etc).

If you manage to build up an army that peeks in round 5 or start round 6, then i think its reasonable to allow the opponent more channeling if  you set in for the kill right now, and roll ~20 dice or more on him each round.

I still need more experience and better understanding in this, thats for sure.

Koz

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 09:40:35 AM »
Any new thoughts? Since its such an important concepts, I hoped more would express their feelings :).

I agree that this is an important concept because overinvesting in channeling can end up being a huge liability and tap your mana supply out in the early game leaving you far too vulnerable.  But if we want to keep the discussion going, I guess it might help to define exactly what you mean by "channeling action".  Do you mean just straight bonuses to channeling such as Mana Crystal/Flower, Haromnize, Moonglow Amulet, etc?  What about cards such as Arcane Ring, Enchanter's Ring, etc?  Do you count those as channeling actions?  What about cards like Battleforge?

If you are just talking straight buffs to channeling, then I rarely take time to cast more than two.  Anymore than that tends to be too draining on me early game. 

Charmyna

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Re: About the importance of balancing channeling and damage output
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2013, 10:56:07 AM »
Any new thoughts? Since its such an important concepts, I hoped more would express their feelings :).

I agree that this is an important concept because overinvesting in channeling can end up being a huge liability and tap your mana supply out in the early game leaving you far too vulnerable.  But if we want to keep the discussion going, I guess it might help to define exactly what you mean by "channeling action".  Do you mean just straight bonuses to channeling such as Mana Crystal/Flower, Haromnize, Moonglow Amulet, etc?  What about cards such as Arcane Ring, Enchanter's Ring, etc?  Do you count those as channeling actions?  What about cards like Battleforge?

If you are just talking straight buffs to channeling, then I rarely take time to cast more than two.  Anymore than that tends to be too draining on me early game.

Im talking of all actions that are related to gaining mana advantage. Therefore I inculde those rings. Battle Forge is different since its main purpose is gaining action advantage. So I wouldnt count it as a channeling action.