January 17, 2020, 03:00:20 PM

Author Topic: Meditation Amulet  (Read 16569 times)

jacksmack

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1072
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Meditation Amulet
« on: August 22, 2013, 08:19:05 AM »
Did any 1 come up with some use for Meditation Amulet?

I think i managed to come up with 2 different uses for it.
1 aggressive and 1 turtle supah strong pew pew nothing can kill me build.

Any 1 on OCTGN from 3 hours and on and fancy to test it?

Aylin

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 494
  • Banana Stickers 4
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 10:43:08 PM »
Now that Meditation Amulet is going to be in the new set, has ANYONE found a use for the thing, or at least any reason to use it over Moonglow Amulet? (3x v 2x cost for Warlord doesn't count).

DeckBuilder

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 666
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 06:24:52 AM »
Promo lets you pay 1-2 spell points, 1 quick action, 4 mana and neck slot for no payback, just the ability to spend 1 full action for +3 mana.

We are assuming the officially released Meditation Amulet is the promo. I know we had a Director saying promos aren't beta-testing and will be released exactly as is. But Ballista, Iron Guard, Akiro's Favour etc suggest that they will make changes before release.

The Druid is best placed to use it as she has vines, 2 Tree spawnpoints, 6 Pods and Felella. She does not need to move as she has vine range QC spells, her spawnpoints and Pixie enchantments. But it limits her to plant spells only, there is no plant Dispel or plant Teleport.

The Necromancer has his 2 spawnpoints too so he could use it for a creature build. Perhaps a Skeleton Fort which is very sedentary with Knight guards and Archers adjacent to Altar of Skulls in the centre of a corner "L" (where Mort and Acolytes are also placed, surrounded by 2 Wall of Bones). But the set-up time for that Fort is so long.

We are getting excited about new cards but they are spawnpoint-driven. We all know an aggressive Warlock, Forcemaster or Beastmaster can currently shred a spawnpoint opening. There has been no new tech spoilt to make spawnpoints more viable. The only hope from the list is a beefed-up Meditation Amulet.

The promo is simply strictly worse than Moonglow's no action +1 mana per turn. If they raised the ability to 5 per full action then it would be played in mid range spawnpoint builds. But as it is? I just can't see it being preferred.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 06:46:07 AM by DeckBuilder »
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

Aylin

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 494
  • Banana Stickers 4
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 01:09:25 PM »
Promo lets you pay 1-2 spell points, 1 quick action, 4 mana and neck slot for no payback, just the ability to spend 1 full action for +3 mana.

We are assuming the officially released Meditation Amulet is the promo. I know we had a Director saying promos aren't beta-testing and will be released exactly as is. But Ballista, Iron Guard, Akiro's Favour etc suggest that they will make changes before release.

The Druid is best placed to use it as she has vines, 2 Tree spawnpoints, 6 Pods and Felella. She does not need to move as she has vine range QC spells, her spawnpoints and Pixie enchantments. But it limits her to plant spells only, there is no plant Dispel or plant Teleport.

The Necromancer has his 2 spawnpoints too so he could use it for a creature build. Perhaps a Skeleton Fort which is very sedentary with Knight guards and Archers adjacent to Altar of Skulls in the centre of a corner "L" (where Mort and Acolytes are also placed, surrounded by 2 Wall of Bones). But the set-up time for that Fort is so long.

We are getting excited about new cards but they are spawnpoint-driven. We all know an aggressive Warlock, Forcemaster or Beastmaster can currently shred a spawnpoint opening. There has been no new tech spoilt to make spawnpoints more viable. The only hope from the list is a beefed-up Meditation Amulet.

The promo is simply strictly worse than Moonglow's no action +1 mana per turn. If they raised the ability to 5 per full action then it would be played in mid range spawnpoint builds. But as it is? I just can't see it being preferred.

I really hope they've improved it significantly. One full action is not worth +2 mana over moonglow.

I was pretty sad when I saw this listed over another new water attack. =\

IndyPendant

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 02:01:39 PM »
Just thought I'd pop in and mention that the DvN unboxing video posted on the MW Facebook page clearly shows the Meditation Amulet--unchanged from the promo version.

Just another card to set aside and never use, in an overall rather good-looking expansion.

DeckBuilder

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 666
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 04:47:08 PM »
Good spot Indy! :(

I wasn't happy with Stumble taking up promo space either.
Stumble: Mind 1 cost 2+1 may reveal when activated to deny move action for that action then destroy it, flyers and unmovable immune
Force Hold: Mind 2 cost 2+2 may reveal when activated to gain restrained and unmovable, upkeep 3
The versatility of Force Hold is so much better (especially as if you pay the upkeep, you are baiting a Dispel).
So they have given a far weaker spell points affordable version to all mages, diluting what makes FM special.

I was hoping for promos that will shake up the meta like Altar of Peace and Gravikor, both of which make whole new builds possible (like Warlord Fort with Gravikor). Instead we get a downgrade like Stumble and this Amulet.

But more worrying is a lack of tech to make spawnpoints more playable. But that's a subject for another thread.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2013, 07:25:52 PM »
I haven't played with it yet, but stumble looks to me like a gift to golem pit, actually. Lets you stack immobilising enchantments, and it's pretty cheap.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

DeckBuilder

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 666
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 10:30:06 AM »
Ring, you are right. I know it's good for Golem Pit with its Transfusion (Jinx + Nullify + Stumble + Force Hold).  But is it good for the game? Corrode. Etherian Lifetree. Cloak of Shadows (Dark Mage Only). Is it enough to nerf the strategy? Crucially, both new mages are stay at home generals who, given time, would send out an army to overwhelm you. So you can't give them time, you need to be more aggressive.

I am plotting something silly like Earth Wizard with a Wand of Force Wave behind 4 Jelly while 4 Golems each guard Orb, Idol, Deathlock and Forge. I can threaten casting another copy of Force Wave to surprise move the 4x Jelly 2 zones with Wand QC, move 1 and hard cast. The threat of that double move for 4 Jelly attacks is powerful. I want to call it "Carpet Jelly" as it will be like vacuum cleaning the arena! :)

Great in theory but sadly the 4 Jelly will have problems disengaging from arena edges and turning around a corner. Just like an old style vacuum cleaner! However, I suspect Force Wave will be played a lot more, both by and against the Necromancer's Lumbering Zombies.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 10:56:24 AM by DeckBuilder »
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 09:09:27 PM »
When I can get a crack at the new metagame, I'm going to be testing direct damage Lightning and Fire Wizards, as well as Fire Warlock and... fire forcemaster?
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

HomelessJoe

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 09:44:58 PM »
However, I suspect Force Wave will be played a lot more, both by and against the Necromancer's Lumbering Zombies.

Too true. This is the very big negative to giving half of a mages army the same negative trait. One properly placed Force Wave and you can give the Necro's army quite the setback. Can the same be said for the Druid and one card? Gate to hell maybe, but it's a huge mana cost and gamble compared to the cheap wave.

Moonglow

  • Sr. Mage
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 03:53:15 PM »
The promo is simply strictly worse than Moonglow's no action +1 mana per turn. If they raised the ability to 5 per full action then it would be played in mid range spawnpoint builds. But as it is? I just can't see it being preferred.

Hey, don't blame me, I didn't do it ;)

Sailor Vulcan

  • Secret Identity: Imaginator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3130
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2013, 01:37:49 PM »
Perhaps the meditation amulet would be useful if you want extra mana for a spell cast by a familiar or spawnpoint while you have some means of protecting your mage? Maybe if the paladin people have been talking about has a durable horse familiar he could use the meditation amulet to help pay for the spells of his steed. While the paladin is riding his steed, he wouldn't need to use his own actions to move. And then by the time something happens to prevent him from riding around on his steed, the paladin might have stored up plenty of mana for his own spells.
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster
I am Sailor Vulcan! Champion of justice and reason! And yes, I am already aware my uniform is considered flashy, unprofessional, and borderline sexually provocative for my species by most intelligent lifeforms. I did not choose this outfit. Shut up.

DeckBuilder

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 666
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 02:54:23 PM »
The problem with Meditation Amulet

(a) you make no profit until you have spent 1 quick action (to cast) and 2 full actions (even then you are +2)

(b) how often will you use it? You need to use it more than once every 3 rounds for it gain you more mana than Moonglow

(c) your mage full action is your most valuable resource, you don't sell it so cheaply!


Think about how much you pay (quick action, spell points, mana) to deny the opponent the next unknown quick spell using a Jinx. How much would you pay to deny a full action?

Maybe the Druid or a Skeleton Fort Necro could use this. But it's just too restrictive. Give me a free action +1 per turn anytime.

They should have pitched it at 5 or 6. At 6, Shad0w tells us it just wasn't used during playtesting (I can believe it). Makes me wonder why they wasted card space on it if playesting found 6 wasn't good enough.

There is very little love for Holy Mages in this set (Renewing Rain is hybrid 3 points), just Cloak's Light-2 hate. I wish they had put Altar of Peace as it creates so many new high skill control strategies. Altar of Peace is Epic (2 copies) so it leaves room for a 65th different card: Gravikor is another game changer. This is needed by Warlord Pop-Up Sniper Fortress. Oh well, opportunity lost, we have what we have.

Ok, so they made a mistake here but let's not belabour the point. They have created an ambitious new set. Let's focus on the positives?

As Tom Vassel said: "every mage plays differently". 10 mages, 10 styles, that's pretty impressive. They should be forgiven a few Stumbles.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 03:25:40 PM by DeckBuilder »
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.

wtcannonjr

  • Ambassador of Wychwood
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 800
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • WBC Mage Wars Tournament
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2013, 07:41:48 PM »
Perhaps this Amulet has a use for managing mana in the deployment phase for use with multiple spawnpoints. Since these don't require an action during the round, the Druid can cast more spells in a turn than was previously possible. The limit of course being mana not actions during the deployment phase. If the Druid uses the Meditation Amulet every other turn it can provide a mana spike that might synchronize with the spawnpoint cycle.

Just speculating here. I haven't done the math, but the purpose might be to impact a deployment phase cycle of spell casting rather than actions during the round.
  • Favourite Mage: Wychwood Druid
"Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin

jacksmack

  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1072
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Re: Meditation Amulet
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2013, 04:26:39 AM »
If the playtesters didnt manage to find a use for the meditation amulet with 6 mana return on every FA spend, then they used it the wrong way.

6 mana return would be an absolute bomb!

This card is very different from mana crystal and moonglow amulet.
Both those cards give a better payoff in the long run if we assume that you stop meditating eventually.

Im not saying that the current amulet is worth playing - but its pretty damn close.

Putting down a spawnpoint to pump out creatures for you, while you meditate allows for a quicker recovery from the initial manasink that putting a harmnonized spawnpoint into play is.