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Author Topic: Druid vs Necro Spoilers  (Read 487078 times)

Phoenix

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #390 on: October 11, 2013, 08:53:09 PM »
I have a general question, I may be missing something, but why are the spoilers scattered to the four winds?  It is not simple to find them.  Some are in the 'news' tab, some are in a half dozen forums, some are only on facebook.  Why is there not just one thread or location on the mage wars site that list and updates the spoilers?



HomelessJoe

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #391 on: October 11, 2013, 08:59:00 PM »
Part of the fun

DeckBuilder

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #392 on: October 12, 2013, 04:54:28 AM »
Not entirely hidden, but they aren't unique or legendary etc. either you could have multiples of the same flower in play in the same zone or different zones.

Hey, Wiz, this was a new rule for me. I only learnt it recently when I tried to have 2 Poison Gas Clouds in the same zone (when testing my Air Wizard Mana Drain book listed in cnoedel's Wizard Control thread). My friend (the one in our group who actually reads and memorises rules entirely instead of guessing with incredibly intuitive rules like Mage Wars) pointed out you can't have multiple conjurations of the same name in the same zone!

It makes sense really, in line with duplicate enchantments rule. Conjurations are attached to its zone or a legal object (like Tanglevine, Quicksand etc). "You can't have duplicate attachments" is a meta-rule in this game.

It's never really been relevant before. Before this set, the only relevance is Poison Gas Cloud, Mangler Caltrops and Wizard's Towers in the same zone in a wizard match-up (never going to happen).

So this means no multiple same flowers in the same zone for abusing the in-zone ready marker attack. They've thought that one through.

However, it does create strange tactics against Druid match-ups. If my mage is in a zone with any Orchid (mine or opponent's if no Mist token), I know I am safe from my opponent Druid's Orchid vine range Dissolve. When my Nature mage casts Lotus to Sleep my Druid opponent's creature, I also create a haven for my own creatures as my opponent can't Lotus vine range Sleep my creature there.

Yes, the Highlander ("there can only be one") rule does create some interesting zonal tactics.

So yet another hidden benefit/drawback of these flowers...

5. They can't be cast on a zone where one already exists, whoever controls it

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Wiz-Pig

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #393 on: October 12, 2013, 06:32:21 AM »
Not entirely hidden, but they aren't unique or legendary etc. either you could have multiples of the same flower in play in the same zone or different zones.

Hey, Wiz, this was a new rule for me. I only learnt it recently when I tried to have 2 Poison Gas Clouds in the same zone (when testing my Air Wizard Mana Drain book listed in cnoedel's Wizard Control thread). My friend (the one in our group who actually reads and memorises rules entirely instead of guessing with incredibly intuitive rules like Mage Wars) pointed out you can't have multiple conjurations of the same name in the same zone!

I guess I was thinking about these along the same lines as creatures since they have an attack. This isn't true for walls since they go at the borders, and I've never wanted to put more than one in the same zone before. I guess I would like some confirmation on this though.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #394 on: October 12, 2013, 07:15:53 AM »
I guess I was thinking about these along the same lines as creatures since they have an attack. This isn't true for walls since they go at the borders, and I've never wanted to put more than one in the same zone before. I guess I would like some confirmation on this though.

Just like you, I was stupefied too! We all consulted the rulebook. But it's there in the rules, p16 of v2 rulebook.

"Most conjurations target a zone and are attached to that zone. When you cast one of these spells, place the conjuration face up in the target zone. A zone may never have multiple conjurations with the same name attached to it."

As for walls, there is a strict 1 wall per border rule (v2 rules p17: "Only one wall can occupy the line between these two zones at a time") which is very intuitive. As walls can be double-edged swords, I've never found an issue with this. I guess it stops you strengthening the same border with a second wall. But walls are niche plays currently, mainly used to block access or line of sight. Of course push through multiple walls of thorns could be fatal if unarmoured. So good thing this intuitive rule exists. There just isn't enough space on the board to stack walls on borders anyway.

Obviously this "no duplicate conjurations" rule has major impact on Flowers.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 10:29:45 AM by DeckBuilder »
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baronzaltor

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #395 on: October 12, 2013, 01:25:57 PM »
Correct, there cannot be multiples of the same flower in a zone since they are conjurations.

HomelessJoe

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #396 on: October 12, 2013, 07:19:12 PM »
As much as I hate to know this rule exists, I unfortunately do and understand why it's there. Without it my Necro build would have 6 poison gas clouds all put in the same zone as me. Anything stays in there and during the upkeep phase gets hit with 12 direct damage.

echephron

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #397 on: October 13, 2013, 12:56:25 PM »
New Card Up: Zombie Brute. Seems almost too strong to me. 11 mana, 3 dark. 10 life. 4 dice +2 bloodthirsty. thats about it.
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HomelessJoe

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #398 on: October 13, 2013, 03:28:08 PM »
Seems almost too AWESOME  to me. Please guys have 4+ of these in the deck. I love these guys. I was a little uneasy about the low level zombie, but these are going to be amazing.

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #399 on: October 13, 2013, 04:58:38 PM »
I'm not seeing it.   With no armour, this will go down fast: 2-3 attacks.  Can't be given most buffs, like Rhino Hide/Bear Strength/Vampirism.  Takes 3 spellbook points.  Hard to heal.

Good card, don't get me wrong.  Well worth its casting and spellbook cost, in appropriate decks.  Probably see one or two in most necro decks.  But it doesn't seem incredible to me.

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #400 on: October 13, 2013, 05:22:35 PM »
First, I think Resiliency is being looked past. Sure they don't have armor, but they are still going to be hard to take down.  With a idol of pestilance or other direct damage conjurations, almost all creatures will be damaged, therefore Bloodthirsty will almost always be in effect. In other words, no need for bear strength as he already gets it. Of course going up against a grizzly or golemn he doesn't stand a chance,  but he isn't the BIG baddies for the Necro, he's the step up from the low level zombies. Unless you have a beastmaster playing swarm with low level mobs the low level zombies would very rarely kill/turn a creature. On the other hand the brutes have the potential to 6 dice attack with bloodthirsty, add a acolyte and that's another dice. That's not to mention any further buffs or equipment induced buffs that are sure to add further damage potential. Plus their attack is a quick attack so they also have the potential to be decent guards. Though I still think I would choose a skeletal Knight for that job. They are not the most amazing card that has ever been put out, far from it, but they are a good card that beefs up the Necro's book creature wise. Plus 11 mana, come on! Love it.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #401 on: October 13, 2013, 05:48:07 PM »
It does seem incredibly good. Compare it to other Bloodthirsty creatures, the Dire Wolf or (Legendary) Goran Pet Werewolf.

Maybe we compare it to similar nonliving under-costed Iron Golem? Both level 3s have very high armour (Brute's Resilient = infinite) and 6 Dice Attack (Brute only versus Wounded Living, very easy with Idol of Pestilence and Nonliving and Necromancer's Immunity). Golem has 3 more life (easily balanced by Resilient), Burnproof (balanced by Lightning +2 vulnerability) and very useful Unmovable. Zombies have far more support (spawn points. Acolyte, Ziggurat etc). Most importantly a Golem is Slow whilst Zombie Brute can always move 1 and attack, hence is always a threat. When you compare the stats, you would have thought the cheaper creature would be the Golem. But the Brute is actually 2 cheaper than the under-costed Iron Golem? At least Iron Golem will beat it due to Bloodthirsty not triggering. But iron Golem is Slow, there is never a straight match-up against Slow creatures. To move 1 and attack yet still be as dangerous as an Iron Golem against Wounded Living is a big deal here.

Something seems really strange here. I know this is looking at cards in a vacuum. A poor card can become good if it is supported. But an over-powered card will always be that. If there's some sort of Silver Bullet against Resilient, it will be a clumsy balancing mechanic to rely on. "Oh I didn't pack my Anti-Zombie Spray spell in this book, I lose". Etherian Lifetree does not benefit Nonliving but then Pestilence and Deathlock does not hurt them either. That +2 vs. Undead of Kralathor, with its explanatory flavour text, looked like blatant balancing to get Druid on par. But what about the rest of the mages?

Both Zombie Minion and Zombie Brute look so good, well above the curve for return on investment (7 and 11) because they are Resilient. There must be a drawback we are missing. We have to trust it is balanced, of course they must have play-tested this thoroughly. I just feel we have found our new Iron Golem here...

Whilst every game like this will have a small element of power creep to keep enthusiasts interested, the trick is surely to keep it as small as possible? Ensure older cards don't become obsolete in comparison. These Resilient under-costed Zombies seem slightly too good...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 06:35:56 PM by DeckBuilder »
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Wiz-Pig

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #402 on: October 13, 2013, 07:22:58 PM »
I'm not seeing it.   With no armour, this will go down fast: 2-3 attacks.  Can't be given most buffs, like Rhino Hide/Bear Strength/Vampirism.  Takes 3 spellbook points.  Hard to heal.

Good card, don't get me wrong.  Well worth its casting and spellbook cost, in appropriate decks.  Probably see one or two in most necro decks.  But it doesn't seem incredible to me.

You've probably figured this out by now from other people's comments, but this is a very silly comment. Resilient is effectively infinite armor.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #403 on: October 13, 2013, 07:51:16 PM »
You've probably figured this out by now from other people's comments, but this is a very silly comment. Resilient is effectively infinite armor.

I think he simply hadn't read (or simply forgot) what Resilient meant. It's easy enough, it's only on one of the many pages in the News.

Resilient is better than infinite armour. Piercing grants no benefit. Corrosive may deal zombies direct damage but is rarer than piercing (and is also useful against armoured). Critical damage is also a very rare trait, useful against both. Resilient totally nerfs a trait: piercing. And unlike Incorporeal, the News section boasts there is no way round it.

One repercussion of Resilient is weenies are less handicapped. 6 Foxes roll 18 dice total and deal average 12 damage against armour 1. 3 Iron Golems also roll 18 dice total but deal 15 damage against armour 1. Against Resilient both deal average 9 damage. But all this does is strengthen weenie in comparison to bigger creature. The reality is both sets of creatures deal average 9 damage, not 12 or 15!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 08:05:41 PM by DeckBuilder »
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sIKE

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Re: Druid vs Necro Spoilers
« Reply #404 on: October 13, 2013, 07:53:11 PM »
I'm not seeing it.   With no armour, this will go down fast: 2-3 attacks.  Can't be given most buffs, like Rhino Hide/Bear Strength/Vampirism.  Takes 3 spellbook points.  Hard to heal.

Good card, don't get me wrong.  Well worth its casting and spellbook cost, in appropriate decks.  Probably see one or two in most necro decks.  But it doesn't seem incredible to me.

You've probably figured this out by now from other people's comments, but this is a very silly comment. Resilient is effectively infinite armor.

Much like the Earth Elemental with its 34 Life, this guy is going to be a chore to take down but if you bring a high Armor critter to battle it will go down after three or four attacks. I wonder if the Walled Sniper would work well against the zombies.....
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