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Author Topic: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?  (Read 3160 times)

Ahlano

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Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« on: August 29, 2013, 09:34:08 PM »
HI!

ok so i did this...

Wizzard Casts: Chain Lightning,
Hawkeyes=+1 to Ranged
Ring of Electric Malfunction thingy.. (thats not the actual name... but ,,yeah)+1 To Lightning Ranged/Melee Attacks

Target->

Broooooo-Gan Fratboy Angel.. (Not the actual name... talking about Brogan Bloodstone) +2Lighting Trait.

ChL=5
Hawk=+1
Ring+1
Brogans Conducting Armor=+2

=9 Attack Dice... It hits.. deals X damage...

What happens now?.. if theres a target.. in jumps...to them.. my question is... how many attack dice now?... is it 8? or does the bonuses get lost?

A) Next Target Get hits with 8 atkdice (Full bonuses)
B) Next Target Get hits with 4 atkdice (No Bonus)
C) Next Target Get hits with 6 atkdice (Not caunting the bonus for brogans +2Lightning Trait)

In my game, it made sense to pick A... wich makes some interesting strategic decisions into wich target do you hit first with chain lighting... trying to use your first target as an amplifier...for some --ll Warning. Lame Pun ll--... For some.. Shocking Results  8)

What do you guys think?
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Doma0997

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 09:42:03 PM »
Any modifiers that apply to one attack do not affect the number of dice rolled during subsequent attacks.
Since an attack cannot be reduced below 1 die, Chain Lightning can keep going as long as it deals
damage and has available targets.
Example: The first target of a Chain Lightning has Lightning +2, the second has no traits, and the third
has Lightning +1. The first target would be hit for 5+2=7 dice, the second would be hit for (5-1)=4 dice, and the third would be hit for (5-2)+1 = 4 dice.

Straight from the faq. So in your example, B would be correct.

nitrodavid

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 10:24:26 PM »
unless of course any other target in the "chain" is also +2 lightning, then for that role you would add 2 more dice
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Ahlano

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 11:05:56 PM »
well..the FAQ says:

Some traits (such as Melee +X) state that “if the attack makes multiple attacks against the same or
different creature, it gains the bonus only for the first attack it makes.” This wording is clarified to say;
“if the creature makes multiple attacks during the same attack action, it gains this bonus only for the first
attack it can make with this bonus.

And chain lightning does not clarify anything about that...

in the case of Battle Fury... the changed the card...specifically to asses that... and make sure it clarified about not receiving bonuses on multiple attacks...

... sooo.. im not really sure... :l

Does anyone have any specific section in the rules.. or faq..that talks bout this?
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Doma0997

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 11:40:52 PM »
Well, I mean that's where the section from chain lightning came from. The FAQ has a space dedicated to it. Chain lightning is making multiple attacks, so any ranged + bonuses go off the first creature, then if each subsequent creature has any modifiers, those are applied to whatever die the target is on. The base will always be 5,4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1...  However with things like lightning + or lightning -, they apply to the specific number it is on already. The example takes this into account. First hit would be base 5 against a lightning +2, for 7. Second hits a neutral target for 4 dice. Third hits a lightning + 1 for 4 dice again, since it's on base 3.

The ranged + also has that ruling Ahlano, and Chain Lightning is an attack making multiple attacks against different creatures so it only gets the ranged bonus for the first creature as well.

Wiz-Pig

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 11:44:34 PM »
This is all you need to verify that the answer B was correct.

From the FAQ specifically on Chain Lightning: "Any modifiers that apply to one attack do not affect the number of dice rolled during subsequent attacks."

That would include your Hawkeye and your Ring. If you are still in doubt for some reason further argument comes in the technical source of the subsequent attacks. From the FAQ: "The source of this attack is the just-damaged target, and the new target must be within range 0-1 and LoS of the source, and not already have been damaged by Chain Lightning during this attack action." we can reason here that since the new source has neither Hawkeye or a Lightning Ring on that they don't impart those bonuses to their chain lightning attack.

Ahlano

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 09:41:31 AM »
Im as blind as can be... totallly did not see that section about chain lightning...
._.
Shocking...

 ;DSorry, and Thanks for the help.
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Shad0w

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 05:58:30 AM »
Any modifiers that apply to one attack do not affect the number of dice rolled during subsequent attacks.
Since an attack cannot be reduced below 1 die, Chain Lightning can keep going as long as it deals
damage and has available targets.
Example: The first target of a Chain Lightning has Lightning +2, the second has no traits, and the third
has Lightning +1. The first target would be hit for 5+2=7 dice, the second would be hit for (5-1)=4 dice, and the third would be hit for (5-2)+1 = 4 dice.

Straight from the faq. So in your example, B would be correct.

Correct
Next Target Get hits with 4 attackdice (No Bonus)
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wtcannonjr

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 08:04:09 AM »
I thought the Damage Modifier in this example applies throughout the Chain Lightening attack. The FAQ and Rules indicate that Melee +X and Range +X are clarified to apply to only the first attack by a creature in this sequence/round. I did not see the same wording for a Damage Modifier so I thought this was intentional and allowed them to apply throughout the attack from the source.

In other words you check damage modifiers that apply to each subsequent attack roll, but only check Melee +X, Range +X on the first attack roll. Using this interpretation the Lightening Ring damage modifier would apply to each subsequent attack by Chain Lightening in addition to any specific modifiers on the subsequent targets.

Is this not a correct interpretation?
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ringkichard

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2013, 09:37:29 AM »
Modifiers like +2 Lightning do apply to all attacks against the target (e.g. Battle Fury) but they only apply to the target creature with the trait. If Chain Lightning hits the same Iron Golem more than once (e.g. Lightning reflected back to the Golem by a Reverse Attack on the second target), the Chain Lightning gets the +2 again (for a total bonus of +1, not +3). For more about the interaction between Chain Lightning and Reverse Attack, see the FAQ.

Anyway, since the subsequent targets lack lightning +2, they do not receive extra attack dice.

If the Mage casting the Chain Lightning had an ability that gave +1 dice to lightning attacks, that would apply to all targets of the Chain Lightning. No such ability exists however, as Lightning Ring specifically gives +1 melee and ranged, and those are limited to the first attack. This is the reason Marked for Death has to include the "Creatures can only gain this bonus for the first attack they make" language, because Marked for death adds a die rather than giving +1 melee or ranged. Without that additional sentence, Hydra would gain an additional die on all three attacks of its triple strike.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 10:05:09 AM by ringkichard »
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Shad0w

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 02:01:52 PM »
Also remember to look at all the negatives and positives before getting the final result of the attack dice rolled.

So for exaple if CL was on target 5 thus being at -5d for a min 1 die result and you target a creature with lightning +3 you you have 3-5= for a result of -2 and the would then set the CL to 1 die
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wtcannonjr

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Re: Chain Lighting... and +2 Lightning first target?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 02:14:36 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.

I missed the wording on the ring that provided Melee +1 or Ranged +1. I forgot it was not Lightening +1.

More nuances for future equipment... :)
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