December 05, 2019, 07:18:00 PM

Author Topic: Flat damage.  (Read 4936 times)

Evolusi

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2013, 11:26:18 PM »
I am most definitely a member of the "sad die rollers" club and really would LOVE to see flat damage attacks.

I think a fair bit would be attacks with X normal and X die with the ratio TBD

i.e. what would be a 4 dice attack would be 1 damage + 2d or a 6 dice attack 2 damage + 4d

Then I wouldn't feel so robbed when I roll 8 dice and get a 1. Or a 0 on 4 dice. Unlike my friend who has ungodly die rolls (I ESPECIALLY hate playing Formula D with him b/c every die roll is perfect, he wins races REGULARLY by 60+ spaces just b/c of the perfect die rolls. Everyone's in a foul mood after playing with him just because of how statistical improbability  his rolls vs our normal human rolls.

Anywho, PLEASE DO THIS!

I feel kind of sad thinking I have debated implementing a house rule just because I have terrible luck.

Moonglow

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2013, 06:15:19 AM »

I feel kind of sad thinking I have debated implementing a house rule just because I have terrible luck.

Deal with your inadequacies then.... I mean seriously, dice are random, deal with it or move on.

Stormmaster

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2013, 07:31:13 AM »
The cool thing with the randomness of dice is your luck will turn and you WILL get some good rolls and then think of how good that will feel.  If you take out the randomness you don't get that momentary sense of "what will happen".  Just like in life things work how we want and sometimes they don't.  Even more true in a magic world where anything could happen.

I have crappy luck too, but the "chance" of it kind of has it's place and can keep it fun and new.  Like with chess there is no luck, here you get strategy of chess and randomness of dice.  It is a great mix, and it isn't "too much" randomness where it overshadows actually playing well and executing.

Mitigation is also a large factor if trying to reduce randomness (ie a super good hit), with more armor even if someone gets a good roll (unless all crits) it takes out some of their stellar roll magic.

sIKE

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2013, 10:34:39 AM »
What I think is needed is like the old 1st Edition AD&D Magic Sword +1 so you roll die and add +1 to damage, probably with an effect die to see if you hit if you roll blanks on the attack dice.

To clarify my thoughts, if you attack die score damage +1, as we know that we didn't "miss" the target of the attack. If the attack dice roll blanks, then roll the effect die (6+ or 7+) your strike hit creature but didn't do any damage (glanced off his armor etc) you would still get the +1 damage. If you don't roll ...nothing but air....
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lettucemode

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2013, 10:39:58 AM »
I like the dice rolling in this game. It simulates strong and weak attacks. For example if a knight attacks a goblin, maybe the goblin tries to twist out of the way but still gets slightly wounded (low damage roll) or maybe the knight outmaneuvers him and gets a solid hit (high damage roll).

It also has an effect on strategy. Not knowing exactly how many hits it takes to kill something means that lots of attacking decisions carry a risk. Your bear might one-shot that wolf or he might not, which makes you consider whether or not it's worth spending an action on the attempt. If everyone knew that you could 1-shot level one creatures I don't think they'd ever get summoned.

Having said that, I think there's room for a trait that guarantees some damage. I don't really see the point since there are lots of direct damage effects already, but it could work.

baronzaltor

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2013, 10:54:57 AM »
I think the best way to do a flat damage concept with the current combat system is just to make a creature with low attack dice and a high Taint chance.   Taint counters are essentially 3 points of flat damage.  That way you create the effect without having to invent new mechanics. 

jacksmack

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2013, 02:29:05 AM »
Taint goes through armor.

Priestess has huge advantage vs taint.

Its impossible to make flat damage without messing with the system.

Flat damage increase armor value tremendously.

Flat damage would seriously nerf low hp creatures and buildings.

The damage swings is not much different from the Daze roll swings or the Defense roll swings.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2013, 10:25:08 AM »
I really like the dice system with the armour semi-soak. Very clever of Bryan Pope.

I particularly like the damage bell-curve effect
The less dice you roll, the more random the result, the more dice you roll, the more likely you will roll damage = dice rolled (half crits).
This means that if you want predictive damage. you go with buffed elites and if you want random damage, you go with weenie swarm.

What I dislike is the d12. It adds luck into what is otherwise a skillful game (especially Light or Lightning but also Dodge, Escape etc).

One solution I have considered is that instead of a d12, each player has a pack of 12 playing cards of 1 suit: Ace (1), 2-10, Jack (11), Queen (12). Each player's pack is shuffled and their top card is drawn instead of rolling a d12 then placed in that player's discard pile. Players may look at discard piles. When there is only 1 card left in your deck, shuffle your discard pile into your deck.

This mechanic removes the utter randomness where I roll 1 to 6 on all of my d12s and my opponent rolls 7 to 12 on all of his d12s. The god of d12 says: "hey, the dice rolled all numbers equally". But for different players. Reshuffle when 1 card left adds a bit of random bias but prevents 100% knowledge. If your last 2 cards are Jack and Queen, it gives you strong predictive knowledge to levereage on your next d12 but at a cost of losing a good roll you could have had earlier in that cycle, a fairer mechanic than 100% knowing your every 12th roll. Allowing looking at discard piles is so as to not favour an eidectic memory card counting player (like me).

Games can be won or lost on the roll of a key d12. This is rarely the case for attack dice. The damage result bell curve, hence variability, is a key game mechanic when considering your strategy and build.

Sorry to turn the focus of this thread to the effect die but that's where the luck lies in the game.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 10:33:11 AM by DeckBuilder »
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pixelgeek

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2013, 10:32:50 AM »
What I dislike is the d12. It adds luck into what is otherwise a skillful game (especially Light or Lightning but also Dodge, Escape etc).

Its only luck if you try to depend on it :-)
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DeckBuilder

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2013, 10:41:01 AM »
Its only luck if you try to depend on it :-)

But you pay a premium for that ability. Lightning deals less damage (and Light even less) but it can Stun if you roll well. That is why I prefer Earth; yes Hurl Boulder has a Slam effect (better than Daze) but I am mainly paying for its upfront damage for threat removal or end game.

The d12 is why I avoid Forcemaster, Lightning Wizard and Priest. Because you are paying in some way for an extremely unreliable power. Give me Earth Wizard kill zone any day for its lack of reliance on d12. Spiked Pit says "Stuck 1+" and I have Transfused Jinx Nullify on him as a free action - so get out of that! Checkmate.

Hey, different strokes for different folks. Chess is a very dry game. The d12 randomness adds fun to the game, I grant you that, it's a great equalizer between unequal opponents so that every dog has its day. It's just not for me.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 10:47:44 AM by DeckBuilder »
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pixelgeek

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2013, 11:13:59 AM »
The d12 randomness adds fun to the game

It adds a larger series of possible results to allow for more powerful abilities to be added without them being overpowering. A D6 is too small a range of results and 2D6 adds a bell curve which has its own issues. A D12 seems more random in the game, and therefore the impression that it is luck based, because it gets rolled less often and only has the single dice to roll.

This does make the Force Master and others a bit more difficult to play at times but I think that you can mitigate this with more careful play.

But you pay a premium for that ability.

You pay for it but I don't see that these abilities are a premium.
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ringkichard

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Re: Flat damage.
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2013, 04:19:13 PM »
There's a few issues with the d12, but they're largely superficial. Still, Gorgon Archer could have been a certain 1 weak instead of 4+/11+ with no real balance effect.

Likewise, 6+ on d12 is pretty much the same as 7+ on 2d6. The distribution curve doesn't actually do anything but hide the true yes/no chance from players.

To get any value out of the more gentle distribution curve in multiple dice, the effects would have to be more graduated rather than just on/off.
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