April 02, 2020, 09:07:51 AM

Author Topic: Miniatures in Mage Wars  (Read 13366 times)

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Miniatures in Mage Wars
« on: September 08, 2013, 09:01:29 AM »
Quote
*Disclaimer* I am just BSing for fun- Not that I wont try my variants, because I will, and I am not posting for no reason, because I want to hear opinions and get good ideas if people are willing to give them, but I am not trying to do anything serious, just trying to have some fun. Just thought I would say something since some people try really hard to make good variants..and I am just Sort of half assing it.

Ok! So some of us have used miniatures in place of the Mage Wars cards right? Well I was thinking of doing something a little different.

I really wanted to play MW with some minis on a map, and use fleshed out minis rules- I have tried, but it comes out rather clunky (Though I want to SOOO bad). So I was thinking about this:

Play on a minis map but with zones- something like this:

http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/TeamRocket_Grunt/library/S...

And not changing any of the rules for movement, zones, anything. But when a mini moves to a new zone, they can select what square to be placed on so it affects LoS differently. (Same with were you summon a monster- or it could have to be summoned as close to your mage as possible IDK.)

You would still use the "Corner of the zone" rule from mage wars for LoS, but if your mini is behind a wall- that counts as blocking LoS.

Its really just a way to make more use of coverage and tactical placement- and give me a reason to play with my minis and maps!

INB4- thats just dumb Darth...... I made a Disclaimer.

So....Any thoughts???
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

Sailor Vulcan

  • Secret Identity: Imaginator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3130
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 10:31:50 AM »
I can't see the picture. I got an error that said it could not be found, and then asked about spelling and capitalization. Can you not just post the picture directly onto this forum? I'm having trouble understanding what you're talking about. Are you saying that you're dividing zones into even smaller "Mini-zones"?
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster
I am Sailor Vulcan! Champion of justice and reason! And yes, I am already aware my uniform is considered flashy, unprofessional, and borderline sexually provocative for my species by most intelligent lifeforms. I did not choose this outfit. Shut up.

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 10:44:17 AM »
Opps! Sorry- here:



Kindof- Like how some people are playing with minis in place of cards on the MW arena board....but you choose which of the one inch squares to place it in.

So...all the normal rules apply- zones still work the same- but if you choose to place a mini in a zone, behind a wall- you could block LoS....

Does that make any sense???

It would just make placement a little more tactical- and I was trying to think of a way to use minis and one inch grid maps. (Without changing the rules much)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 10:46:30 AM by DarthDadaD20 »
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

Sailor Vulcan

  • Secret Identity: Imaginator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3130
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 12:06:13 PM »
You could also use coins or markers with a picture of the creature or other object on it, instead of using full miniatures. Then you could place the cards outside of the arena organized by spell type. If you use actual miniatures I think it would get insanely expensive insanely fast. I think having walls already there benefits certain playstyles more than others.

Also, while you're at it, it might be a good idea to have some objects take up more space than others, so that objects actually have size in the arena. I can imagine each and every object having a cardboard square marker for its board position. For the walls, you'd need to have the plastic "stands" you get in other board games for standing up cardboard character pieces.

I also think that each creature should have an energy level to signify how much of its "action" it has left to use in a round, and how much action it can take maximum. 100% would be a full action, and 50% would be a quick action. If each zone had 5 rows of 5 1-inch mini-zones, then moving 1 inch away would take 2% of a creature's energy level.

Hindering would mean that creatures would be continually arranged or positioned a certain way in a zone as to make it take more time or effort for an opposing creature to leave. Since hindering only works against opposing creatures, and is supposed to mean that your creatures are "chasing" an enemy creature(s) across the zone, then it should stand to reason that you should be able to choose whether you want to hinder the enemy's escape or not. Elusive would be like dodging around, jumping over and ducking under things to get through, so creatures with Elusive could move right through an enemy creature's position.
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster
I am Sailor Vulcan! Champion of justice and reason! And yes, I am already aware my uniform is considered flashy, unprofessional, and borderline sexually provocative for my species by most intelligent lifeforms. I did not choose this outfit. Shut up.

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 01:15:58 PM »
Those are the kind of rules I was thinking at first- (And those kind of rules are what would make sense...but I was going for something kinda strange here!)

But with this I am talking about nothing being different but the placement of the minis- creatures would still move one zone (Not counting by inch), you can still make a attack against a creature in your zone, regardless of the square they are in, But the difference would be you would get to pick the square you went into to determine cover from another zone.

IDK...just messing around trying to find a simple way to use minis and maps without messing with the rules too much!

(And I already have boxes of minis to use- I have played a few games were I set the card to the side and use a mini on the board (Which is how D&D/Starwars mini game was played) and had nothing on the board but minis for the creatures and conjurations (zone enchantments would be placed in the zone though,)- just to clear up some room.  And I thought it would be cool to have terrain play a role in the game- but 12 zones isn't a whole lot of room for alot of terrain/walls/pits ect.
 
(And in this kinda boring map- you can see that the two middle zones have a lot of places you could use to block LoS-)

Like I said- What I am talking about here makes little sense really- full fledged minis rules would be much better, but I was attempting something different and easy.

Thank you for your comments Imaginator- I have enjoyed reading you variants posted on this thread.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 01:17:25 PM »
I like that "energy level" idea----that needs to be put to use somewhere for something in the ether.....
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 07:19:26 AM »
So it appears that the mention of this idea just springs up a fleshed out version of the game using minis-

Before this, I was thinking of having zones being a "radius" or area of five squares or inches. So for movement, you could move 5 squares as a quick action. A range of 0-2 zones would be a range of 0-10 squares (or inches) for attacks and for enchantment range.

I know having the cards off to the side would work- as other miniatures games do it.

I also have all the tools to do it- maps,minis, and radius templates for one inch grids.

I think the templates will make for this to be possible. A hex grid would in most cases, most likely work better- But I don't have any, and have TONS of square grid maps- So I will make it work. 
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

The Dude

  • Hitchhiker of sorts
  • Playtester
  • Sr. Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 435
  • Banana Stickers 5
  • It's like... good gracious...bodacious.
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 11:14:47 PM »
Hmm. I actually really like this. Although, I must say, your original "You move one zone, and place in any square" is rather intriguing... I have not seen a minis game operate like that before, where movement is purely tactical, and not based on "move stats" or rulers, or anything like that.


But if you were to go with the quick action move five inches thing, that would open up an entire world not know to MW at the moment... Scenarios. Yes, Capture the flag becomes a thing if I have to move more than five squares for it. As well, king of the hill could work. Kill the king obviously, but the whole world is completely open.

clix models to show what actions have and haven't been used?
  • Favourite Mage: Johktari Beastmaster
Always carry a towel...

The Dude

  • Hitchhiker of sorts
  • Playtester
  • Sr. Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 435
  • Banana Stickers 5
  • It's like... good gracious...bodacious.
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 11:16:39 PM »
Okay, now I'm seriously addicted to the idea of this. Going to transcribe the codex and a workable LOS/Range rulesset tomorrow for futrue playtesting, if you could actually create a map to print.

  • Favourite Mage: Johktari Beastmaster
Always carry a towel...

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 12:58:08 AM »
Sweet!!!!

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

(I am glad you liked the "original idea" I dont think it would accomplish what people would want or expect it to- but I think it would make for a interesting and clean translation- and thats what I was going for- just something super simple)

I think the movement and having a "Zone Radius" of a "Set number of squads" should be possible without to much effort.  (Google D&D zone/spell Radius)

This has been floating around in my head since December- And I just haven't gotten around to fleshing it out.....it was actually one of the first things I thought off after playing a game.

Let me know what you come up with- and let me know if I can be of any assistance.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

The Dude

  • Hitchhiker of sorts
  • Playtester
  • Sr. Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 435
  • Banana Stickers 5
  • It's like... good gracious...bodacious.
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 01:09:12 AM »
Interesting... Almost like we could make every spell have either a circle radius (AoEs mostly), or a line radius.


Guarding could lead to Opattacks...

It would have to be a smaller board, much smaller, if we were to transfigure 1 zone movement to 5 inches of movement.

How would we handle actions, though? I've always been of the opinion that if using minis, tokens should not be placed on the board. And as I am the CEO of Wizkids, i'm sure I won't be making clix bases...

What about if we incorporated a kind of minor/major action sequence? Much like 4e, in which things like movement and guarding would be minors, but attacking would be a major. And of course, you would have to minor before you majored, or else you would be out a major spell.

And how would we handle conjurations? They are, after all, an important part of Mage Wars. What if, when built, serve as obstacles that block LoS? For example, mana crystal would be a 1x1 or 2x2 that would block loS to a mage of some sort. This would give more power to not only conjurations, but flying creatures as well.

We may just have a game on our hands. But I still want to play with the original concept first, as I think it could be the most direct path to success, without having to change AS much.
  • Favourite Mage: Johktari Beastmaster
Always carry a towel...

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 08:25:49 PM »

Quote
Interesting... Almost like we could make every spell have either a circle radius (AoEs mostly), or a line radius.

Seems to be the best and easiest solution's to me...or atleast the first that came to mind! (I am thinking of having a "Zone Radius"- It will be used for spell effects, conjuration effects, and creature effects such as RedClaw's bonuses.

Quote
Guarding could lead to Opattacks...

When I was first thinking about this in December- I was thinking that if a Guard was Adjacent to you- then it counts as "That zones guard" equating to- protecting a creature.
Example- My mage is being attacked by a Hydra- My zombie that is adjacent to my mage is guarding- the hydras attack is redirected to my zombie guard


Quote
It would have to be a smaller board, much smaller, if we were to transfigure 1 zone movement to 5 inches of movement.

I will try it out on the scale of typical D&D battle mats

Quote
How would we handle actions, though? I've always been of the opinion that if using minis, tokens should not be placed on the board. And as I am the CEO of Wizkids, i'm sure I won't be making clix bases...

lol- with how people reacted to summoner wars due to the name "wars"- We would never hear the end of it if we put clix on them- people would say its the old "mage knight" since it says mage!

Being serious though- The action markers can stay on the cards that are off to the side- as simple as that in my mind.



Quote
What about if we incorporated a kind of minor/major action sequence? Much like 4e, in which things like movement and guarding would be minors, but attacking would be a major. And of course, you would have to minor before you majored, or else you would be out a major spell.

Keep actions the same- have action markers off to the side on the corresponding creature card- movement would be in a set number of squares- say 5.

Quote
And how would we handle conjurations? They are, after all, an important part of Mage Wars. What if, when built, serve as obstacles that block LoS? For example, mana crystal would be a 1x1 or 2x2 that would block loS to a mage of some sort. This would give more power to not only conjurations, but flying creatures as well.

We could have conjurations being the only large or even huge scale miniatures in the game- use the "Zone radius I talked about for effect (These would be placed underneath the mini) and with them being large or huge- Blocking LoS would be an easy feat (as well as easy to remember)

Quote
We may just have a game on our hands. But I still want to play with the original concept first, as I think it could be the most direct path to success, without having to change AS much.

I am glad you liked the original concept- It really just came out of me wanting to use minis without changing anything. My first idea was a fleshed out minis game- but I never got around to it....and had even talked about it on the forums before, but since it was around the time the game was released- it got lost in the shuffle. Then I had the idea of just having tactical placement be the only difference and thought it actual sounded like a good idea and posted it.

I am going to take some "mock" pictures of the "Fleshed out version" so we can get a idea of what it would look like.

Thank you for your feedback- It is very welcome, appreciated and overall nice to have.

Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 09:46:34 PM »
And I am thinking- Ether when you summon a creature- to have it summoned into the "next" adjacent square- or to use a zone template. The zone template could be 5x5 squars or something like that...maybe larger- but I would want it to be recognizable or easily accounted for without the use of a actual template if need be. (Maybe the size of a D&D huge mini...)
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.

The Dude

  • Hitchhiker of sorts
  • Playtester
  • Sr. Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 435
  • Banana Stickers 5
  • It's like... good gracious...bodacious.
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 09:49:40 PM »
Hmm. I quite like that idea of an "Area" summoning, in which the mage makes up the "center" of the square, and it goes out to a 5x5.

Any creature with lvl 4 or higher would be a big base?
  • Favourite Mage: Johktari Beastmaster
Always carry a towel...

DarthDadaD20

  • Dark Father of Random Occurrence/TeamRocket Grunt
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Banana Stickers 14
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures in Mage Wars
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2013, 11:33:26 PM »
Something like that- I did make some mock photos and will post them latter- Adramelech as a Medium creature just went against everything I believe in!

I am almost wanting to split this thread- and make one just for my "original" idea.....I just don't know what to call it yet.

I have gained a bit of confidence in it since your opinion of it was well received.

I have been thinking of some more applications then just cover,LoS, and walls like:

Terrain effects- Say you move a creature into a Zone that has water in it (I have lots of maps with lakes or rivers in them) If you moved a fire creature into that "Part" (Specific square) of the zone with water in it- it gets a penalty....lets say takes 2 damage on the upkeep. And if you move a creature with the Aquatic subtype-or a water creature into that "Part" of the zone that has water, it gets a bonus....lets say It gains Fast. (To show its now in its natural environment or can swim)

And it could be the other way around with fire- the map I posted up above has PLENTY of fire "parts". 

I think it could add a whole new element to mage wars- it could be played right now and take minimal effort, and could be the first real "Game Changing variant" this game has had. (I could see people loving it)

Thoughts??
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
It has been around since the dawn of time,
it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
takes the form of a mountain as well as a flower,
it cannot be outrun by the greatest of power.
Where does my greatest enemy lie?
Within Shad0w.