September 15, 2019, 09:27:40 AM

Author Topic: MANA FORCE!  (Read 5666 times)

Sailor Vulcan

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MANA FORCE!
« on: September 19, 2013, 04:59:09 PM »
Forcemaster

Conjurations
2 Mana Crystal
1 Suppression Orb
2 Wall of Thorns
1 Mana Flower

Creatures
4 Thoughtspore
1 Invisible Stalker

Enchantments
4 Block
1 Force Crush
1 Forcefield
4 Nullify
2 Force Hold

Equipment
2 Mage Wand
1 Dancing Scimitar
1 Galvitar Force Blade
1 Psy Orb
1 Force Ring
1 Regrowth Belt
1 Moonglow Amulet
1 Leather Boots
1 Leather Gloves
1 Elemental Cloak

Incantation
2 Drain Power
2 Teleport
4 Force Push
2 Purge Magic
2 Dispel
2 Seeking Dispel
2 Dissolve


The basic idea of this build is for the most part a regular forcemaster except for one thing: Mana. A lot of mind spells are powerful and have upkeep costs. I thought that trying to get a mana advantage using mana flower/crystals/moonglow amulet and drain power-mage wand, would make it easier to take advantage of all those great mind spells that have upkeep costs, and of course having more mana than my opponent is also a good advantage. I cast Invisible Stalker by round 2 to badger my opponent while I set up.

I've tested this a few times, and it's quite fun. I've realized that I'm not going to have as many opportunities to test builds this year as I would like, so I decided to post this now, and see what people think.
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The Dude

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Re: MANA FORCE!
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013, 08:21:01 PM »
Honestly, the forcemaster doesn't have a mana problem, as long as you go semi aggressive early. She is one of the only mages can really afford to not put out mana crystals/mana flowers.


Suppression Orb is Baws though in Forcemaster.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: MANA FORCE!
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013, 08:54:20 PM »
I never said it was a mana problem. While she seems like a regular forcemaster if you're looking at the big picture, the devil is in the details. I think that you're right that the forcemaster usually gets into the action right away. However, I thought that summoning an early invisible stalker to keep the opponent occupied while I do a bit of setup with increasing my channeling and putting on equipment--and AHA I see why this doesn't work. The next step would be summoning thoughtspores with force pushes or teleports, and since they can't do anything until the round after they're summoned, summoning them for full actions is 3-4 wasted rounds for my opponent to gain an advantage. Perhaps I need to fit in a battleforge somewhere. Not sure if it will solve the problem of being able to get those thoughtspores out without making my mage vulnerable for a couple rounds, though. And now that I think about it, it probably would be better to pick a creature that can hinder opposing creatures without making itself enormously vulnerable. Invisible Stalker has pest when it's invisible, and even when it becomes visible and capable of hindering, it has only 7 health and can't have armor. It would only buy me 1 round.

I can't believe I didn't think of all this earlier.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 08:56:48 PM by Imaginator »
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: MANA FORCE!
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 11:56:28 AM »
I made multiple changes to this build, but I can't get it to work without the thoughtspores, which I just can't manage to summon. No matter what I do the build is disjointed. You're right, the forcemaster should never touch her channeling or her opponent's mana. If I made a strategy like this for a 2 v 2 match I bet it could work as a wizard forcemaster team, but alone the forcemaster cannot pull it off.
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lettucemode

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Re: MANA FORCE!
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2013, 12:31:51 PM »
What would be the issue with: Mana Crystal and Battleforge turn 1, Thoughtspore turn 2. At that point you'd have 9 mana left for an enchantment or force ring. So not quite as much mana advantage as your original build, but the forge will help you gain armor quickly without spending extra actions.

If hindering is an important part of your strategy, that's gonna be tough. Being unable to hinder your opponent with creatures seems like a built-in weakness of the Forcemaster. Best creature for that would probably be Cervere. So your opening would change to:

1st turn - Cervere and mana crystal.
2nd turn - Battle Forge, Force Ring
3rd turn - Thoughtspore, face-down enchantment or Defense Ring
4th turn - if you haven't been rushed yet, another Thoughspore and Moonglow, otherwise Galvitar.

That leaves you pretty mana-starved, also you'd need to make 12 points of room in your spellbook for Cervere. He should be able to help you survive any rush, though.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 12:48:09 PM by lettucemode »

lettucemode

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Re: MANA FORCE!
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2013, 01:02:08 PM »
Alternative to Cervere in the above: Stonegaze Basilisk. Level 3 so he'll only cost you 9 spellbook points, less mana cost, and if you park him at near center or so, his Cripple should be able to help hold anything off until you build up.

DeckBuilder

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Re: MANA FORCE!
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013, 02:07:01 PM »
I made multiple changes to this build, but I can't get it to work without the thoughtspores, which I just can't manage to summon. No matter what I do the build is disjointed. You're right, the forcemaster should never touch her channeling or her opponent's mana. If I made a strategy like this for a 2 v 2 match I bet it could work as a wizard forcemaster team, but alone the forcemaster cannot pull it off.

Hi. Firstly thanks for bravely posting the build. I haven't yet (will change soon). I particularly liked the way you just expressed your thoughts.

Forcemaster is one of my lesser played mages (I treat unreliable Deflect as a bonus and I hate the fact she is auto-lose against Golem decks). I am no expert with her. But from my analysis and limited experience, there are 3 Forcemaster builds. All of them play Battle Forge as a must-have for action advantage so that she kits up quickly, retaining aggressor tempo. It's a must-have for her, often built Far Centre after you double move open.

Her first build is Solo. She plays multiple Force Fields and Mind Controls against Elites and all anti-Swarm Epic conjurations like Obelisk, Orb, Pestilence (all of which hurts swarm bad). Mind Control with Obelisk in play is just too powerful. Obviously this build uses opponent's buffed creatures against them so needs less Dispels. You go overboard on enchantments to make them use up their Dispels (you must Dissolve any Wand with Dispel). This build needs plentiful upkeep (a good player will Dissolve each Psy Orb) so this one is where you go down the Mana Crystals route. In the current meta (before Necromancer), I evaluate this to be the stronger build as long as you don't meet Earth Wizard or Golem Charge Warlord.

The second build is Thoughtspore control that you have built. This is a far subtler less aggressive in-your-face build as you have to spend full actions for 2 Thoughtspores in 2 zones that with range 2 cover the whole arena. You generally bind Force Push and Jet Stream (very cost-efficient against those aerial threats to them but also utility spells like Surging Wave, Dispel, Seeking Dispel and Dissolve as well as a cheap point cost toolbox of Flameblast and Arc Lightning against Defence and objects vulnerable to that damage. With Force Push or Jet Stream (if you are playing against a flyer mage) as your go-to binds, you need more than 1 core set of Wall of Thorns. Make no mistake that all your Blocks are mainly there to protect your fragile Thoughtspores.

This build plays Charm on ground enemies to neutralise them whilst your flying Spores kill them. It may play Invisible Stalker but I avoid it because to safely use Invisibility each turn, you need to have creature overlap. It doesn't really need as much mana as the Solo Upkeep build. However, while safer against Psychic Immune Nonliving, it is very vulnerable to flyers. In the end, Forcemaster suffers from uneven match-ups. This luck factor is why I avoid her. Against that regular opponent who plays that same build, she could be awesome though.

So from your build, I'd cull Drain Power, Mana Flower (keep the 2 Crystals), Purge Magic (I love it but too pricey outside Wizard), Invisible Stalker, Force Hold (keep Crush for end-game once opponent is depleted of Dispels on Charms). You need more utility spells (Dispel, Dissolve for armour or Eagleclaw), Jet Stream, more Thorns, maybe cheap tooolbox unavoidable attacks. Battle Forge is non-negotiable.

The third build is borrow out-of-school Elites. Grizzly is favoured for its full action attack, easily gained with Force Push. Always penetrating Cevere (as mentioned) is another favourite. This build is simply "the most aggressive mage with the most Elite" and is built quite similar to many other mages with this strategy. Of course control may neutralise your spell point investment to leave you at a huge disadvantage. It lacks the stylishness of the other 2 builds which is the only reason to play Forcemaster really. If I want to play an efficient build, I would choose another mage. Still, it is an option.

However, as this thread is titled "Mana Force", I urge you to try the more aggressive Solo Build. Thoughtspore is far too fragile and playing pinball with the opponent through Walls of Thorns is a stylish way of winning but it's very difficult. Also most decks have some flyers which, despite Jet Stream, eat Spores for breakfast. The risk of facing Iron Golems is small. So make the most of that build before Necromancer becomes popular (and swarm builds gain from Lifetree). It is so satisfying when Forcemaster stylishly wins, Solo Mind Control especially.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert at Forcemaster. I dislike polarised match-ups (and d12 rolls). Please feel free to ignore everything I have written.

Good luck with the build!

(Btw I really liked your Shaman idea: you have a very creative imagination, a talent which is often complementary to efficiency analysis).

« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 02:34:57 PM by DeckBuilder »
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Wiz-Pig

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Re: MANA FORCE!
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2013, 08:27:23 PM »
Wow great post Deckbuilder! I enjoyed your analysis tremendously I think I may try my hand at designing a book with the Forcemaster around Cervere, something about that combo just speaks to me thematically.