April 06, 2020, 04:36:35 AM

Author Topic: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?  (Read 5976 times)

Erronius

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« on: September 29, 2013, 05:08:10 PM »
Is this combo more of a parlor trick or does it have legs competitively? The obelisk is good for FM anyway since she doesn't run many creatures. The ability to insta-kill a hydra or a grizzly is pretty nasty.

In general, I'm hoping this might be an alternative to the wizard + gate that seems to dominate the meta right now (thank you Charmyna :).

-Aaron

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 09:00:51 PM »
(hat=competitive) Let me put it this way: I've never seen it work well, and I have never built a competitive book with it, but if it could kill Iron Golems I think it'd be better than Thorn-Push and every competitive book I've ever seen played includes countermeasures for Wall of Thorns.

Right now, Sleep+Teleport seems better, or just Turn to Stone, Banish, or Force Hold (with or without Enchantment Transfusion) but it has a huge potential upside if the metagame unseats Earth Wizard, so better check again in a month. (/hat)

Of course, what are you asking us for? Do science yourself and report you findings!
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Erronius

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 09:08:20 PM »
I was thinking about making this strategy even crazier by casting mind control and enchantment transfusion on an invisible stalker, effectively banking the action.

This is probably still to slow, but I'm going to give it a whirl on OCTGN.

Sailor Vulcan

  • Secret Identity: Imaginator
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3130
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 10:35:21 PM »
Of course! I get it now! Since upkeep +1 trait from mordok's obelisk is for the controller to pay, not the owner, so if you take control of an opponent's creature and then choose NOT to pay the upkeep cost...

And since the controller of a card or effect also gets to choose what order simultaneous effects occur in, you can choose not to pay the upkeep trait given to the creature BEFORE you would have to pay the mind control upkeep to keep control over it so that your opponent doesn't have the chance to save the creature.

Crafty! And not too mana expensive either. If they have two golems and you have a obelisk and cast mind control twice, they've invested 26 mana (13+13 for golem summons) and you've invested 24 (8 for obelisk and 16 to mind control two golems). On top of that, those golems are stunned! And if you want to, you can keep one of them for yourself for a short while either to deal more damage (if you're nearing the endgame), or to hold off your opponent while you get your bearings and prepare a counterattack, or to destroy that big conjuration that needs to die! Those golems can't even move their mouths to say their last words! This seems like a pretty good strategy. I hope it works as well as it seems like it will!

Also, enchantment transfusion won't work on mind control, since it has an effect that says it can't be moved to another target.
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster
I am Sailor Vulcan! Champion of justice and reason! And yes, I am already aware my uniform is considered flashy, unprofessional, and borderline sexually provocative for my species by most intelligent lifeforms. I did not choose this outfit. Shut up.

ringkichard

  • Flightless Funpire
  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2564
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Kich, if you prefer.
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2013, 10:49:41 PM »
Sadly, no-go on the Golems. Mind Control is keyword "psychic", and Iron Golems are psychic immune. Which is why I tried to imply that it would be great if it worked, but it doesn't. Keep this in mind with the undead, too.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 10:52:45 PM by ringkichard »
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

Charmyna

  • Playtester
  • Full Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 172
  • Banana Stickers 1
  • Dark Destroyer
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 12:13:06 AM »
You need to keep in mind as well that you can reveal mind control only between action phases. Therefore, if your opponent has a dispel prepared (possibly on a mage wand) and got enough mana, he can dispel the mind control in the last QC phase. If you reveal several mind control in one round, thats a different story though.

Erronius

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 10:20:56 PM »
Hmm... perhaps this is where having 6 enchanters wardstones might come in?  ;)

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 12:09:21 AM »
I have found playing against Mind Control that it is very hard to make use of it. It Stuns when revealed. So the creature does nothing that round and then you Dispel it and the Creature is Stuns again when removed. So most of the time it is a two round Stun .....
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

baronzaltor

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 1765
  • Banana Stickers 19
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 02:05:03 AM »
Wand of Healing/Clear Mind are fun with Mind Control.  Then you can reveal MC and purge the stun condition off so as to put the creature to work the same turn you reveal it.

But yeah usually it doesn't last long, wardstones help a little bit in that area.

My biggest beef is that its a 6th level spell, its a heavy investment with a lot of red tape to just trade for a dispel and stun.

CharlieFox

  • New Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Banana Stickers 0
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 11:45:55 PM »
Ok... I am really mad... how do I counter this damn thing...

Obelisk was down, so I "saw it coming". So I put nullify on my beefed up Brogan. Then the Forcemaster throws back to back decoy and mind control. Next turn, my Brogan dies.

I see some of you guys saying you haven't seen it work well, so please tell me how to stop it.

Kharhaz

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 2109
  • Banana Stickers 7
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 12:47:59 AM »
Ok... I am really mad... how do I counter this damn thing...

Obelisk was down, so I "saw it coming". So I put nullify on my beefed up Brogan. Then the Forcemaster throws back to back decoy and mind control. Next turn, my Brogan dies.

I see some of you guys saying you haven't seen it work well, so please tell me how to stop it.

Jinx can help stall and draw out the actions it takes to pull off the combo but there is nothing you can really do about it. It is a lot of mana and actions invested into the combo however. Best thing to do is try not to rely on single beefed up critters and focus on multitude of minions.

I know that is crappy advice when there is an obelisk down to punish you for multiple creatures, but the obelisk has always been that kind of Tanya Harding Knee Smashing kind of card. Definitely not one of my favorites.

IndyPendant

  • Full Mage
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Banana Stickers 2
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2013, 02:22:46 AM »
The scenario you describe sounds like you had a few rounds with the Obelisk up.  My suggestion would be next time to make the Obelisk itself your top priority.  Why beef up Brogan if you expected to lose him?  If 'beef up' included a Bear Strength, an even slightly lucky single attack roll would have taken the Obelisk out, or two attacks at most with anything but the worst of luck.  Power down the Obelisk, and Mind Control becomes a two-round Stun, and you're also free to bring out all the other stupendously powerful Holy creatures if you want.

The only other way I could see dealing with the issue would have been to keep a Dispel in your hand until he cast it.  Just suffering the one-spell-per-turn issue until the threat has passed.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 02:30:07 AM by IndyPendant »

Wildhorn

  • Superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine.
  • Legendary Mage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1063
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
    • Mage Wars Quebec
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2013, 08:25:23 AM »
What do you think the card Mind Shield is for? Exactly to counter Mind Control. Get 1-2 in your deck, then rush to kill the obelisk.

sIKE

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 4172
  • Banana Stickers 18
  • Ugh
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2013, 10:59:19 AM »
I'm with Indy here, if I am expecting a Mind Control I just keep a Dispel in hand.  I then use my mage to melee during his action. What I have done is once the MC has come out and my creature is stunned and if he hasn't already been activated, I then go ahead and Dispel the MC (the 2nd stun), I then activate the creature removing the stun at the end of his action.
  • Favourite Mage: Malakai Priest

DeckBuilder

  • Playtester
  • Legendary Mage
  • *
  • Posts: 666
  • Banana Stickers 3
    • View Profile
Re: Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 11:48:07 AM »
sIKE, I'm no expert with FM like you. But all my FM builds have always used this trick. What happens is this...

I am within 3 of a big threat (say Vampiric Bear Strength Grizzly), have Initiative and, due to the QC Force Pull then attack tactic of FM, I have 18 mana in my pool. I choose Mind Control and Mordok's Obelisk in Planning.

After my first action, when I am now adjacent to threat, I QC Mind Control on threat and reveal it (pay 2+8) to Stun the threat before it acts. Unless opponent has Dispel ready, I Final QC Obelisk to let it die before opponent can Dispel the Mind Control. The Obelisk now deters swarm so I threaten any other over-invested threat. No book can really afford more than 2 Mind Controls at 6 spell points each (Obelisk is another 4 but always good for FM). Also there is a lot of popular Psychic Immunity out there so investing points like this is a big risk.

FM player should not telegraph by casting Obelisk first (it should always be cast Final QC before Upkeep to mess up opponent's plans).

It's not that great: you spend alot of mana and spell points, so only really good against an over-buffed creature (Wizard has Purge Magic). For 6 spell points, 16 mana and 2 quick actions, FM can cast Sleep + Quicksand to remove an isolated level 4 threat. Although there are lots of outs there (Teleport solves almost all problems).

They have costed "removal" tricks at roughly the same cost as the threat you remove (just like Dispel/Dissolve).

Now, I've never thought about Mind Shield before (Wildhorn's proposal). It's a pretty specific counter for 2 spell points. Anyone who plays Enchanter's Ring (FM's other ring) and enchantments will probably use Decoys instead of Seeking Dispel to trigger Nullify (save points, deter Seeking Dispel, make 1 mana). Mind Shield like Retaliate is not mandatory, you don't need to trigger it to Charm (which can always guard or attack other objects). It's good when a card I'd dismissed as too niche is proved useful. That is if you're regularly facing this trick. Shame it doesn't get round Nightshade Lotus which is a poison attack.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 12:09:29 PM by DeckBuilder »
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's just fun.