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Author Topic: Battle Fury (retarget?)  (Read 9182 times)

diceman

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Battle Fury (retarget?)
« on: November 22, 2013, 10:13:05 AM »
I think I already answered my own question, I just wanted to make sure: that extra Melee-Attack I get with BATTLE RAGE, must I use this on the same creature I've already attacked, or am I allowed to retarget? Should be legal, right?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 11:51:04 AM by diceman »

Sailor Vulcan

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Battle Rage (retarget?)
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2013, 11:29:36 AM »
If you're talking about battle fury, I'm pretty sure it targets the attacker, not the attacked. I don't remember whether it affects the creature's next unresolved attack that round or just its next attack.

I need to look over the card text again...
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diceman

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Re: Battle Rage (retarget?)
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2013, 11:50:46 AM »
Oops, yes, of course I meant BATTLE FURY (have to constantly translate from the German Texts, when posting here).  ;)
And, yes, as far as I know, BF targets the Attacker. Now, what I meant was: say my Timber Wolf (with BF on it) has already resolved an attack against the Darkfenne Hydra. Now for the Bonus-Melee-Attack from BF: must the Timber Wolf again attack the Hydra (same target), or may he also choose another viable target-creature within the same zone?

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2013, 01:15:07 PM »
Same target. Think of it like the trait double strike, as opposed to sweeping.
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Zuberi

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 01:27:07 PM »
Imaginator is incorrect. The new attack granted with Battle Fury goes through all of the Combat Steps, including Step 1: Declare Attack, in which you select a legal target for the attack. This can be different from the original target.

Apethemin

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 01:40:36 PM »
Battle Fury states "The extra attack counts as part of the same attack action." So I think Imaginator is correct on this one.

Zuberi

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2013, 01:58:59 PM »
"The next time this round the target creature makes a melee attack, if that attack is not a Counterstrike, at the end of that attack action it may immediately make another quick action melee attack. This extra attack counts as part of the same attack action. Only one Battle Fury spell may be cast per round on the same creature."

That is the full text from Battle Fury. The part about being a part of the same attack action makes it exactly the same as double strike, triple strike, AND sweeping. It simply means that it can not benefit from things like melee +X a second time. It has nothing to do with targeting.

The part about being at the end of the attack action means that it occurs during Step 8: Attack Ends, and not during Step 5: Additional Strikes. This makes it even more similar to Sweeping than Doublestrike.

In the end though, the key thing to look for is the total lack of any targeting restriction in the text. If it doesn't restrict your target, then you can choose your target.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 02:08:50 PM by Zuberi »

Apethemin

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2013, 03:45:14 PM »
Ahh interesting does that mean a battle fury strike could be attacked by a damage barrier more than once?

Zuberi

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2013, 04:14:56 PM »
Page 27 of the Rulebook v2.0 states "A damage barrier can attack each attacker once each round." This prevents it from hurting the attacker during a Battle Fury attack.

Now, the wording on Counterstrike is a little more ambiguous. On page 28 it states: "A creature may make one counterstrike against each creature that attacks it with a melee attack (even if the attacker attacks it with more than one strike during the attack)."

Now, since Battle Fury does not count as an extra strike, we could almost ignore the parenthesis and scratch our heads as to whether the preceding text limits us to one Counterstrike against them per round, one per attack action, or one each time the Step is encountered. I could see arguments for any of these three interpretations.

Apethemin

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2013, 04:43:34 PM »
Ok, one more question now. Damage barrier says that it only attacks after all additional strikes, so is battle fury considered an additional strike that happens before damage barrier or is it the exception to the rule due to the fact it only starts after the original attack finishes. If it is the exception would it be possible to cancel the battle fury attack if the damage barrier stunned the target or does the stun only come into effect after the battle fury finishes due to rule that the stun marker would not be resolved until the next round?

jacksmack

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2013, 04:44:48 PM »
This 1 is dirty... Official answer on this please.

Do battlefury trigger an additional counter strike if the attack choose to hit the same target both with his attack he gets from spending the action marker and the attack from battle fury?

Prior to errrata it would be an easy "yes".

Zuberi

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2013, 05:36:32 PM »
Quote from: Apethemin
Damage barrier says that it only attacks after all additional strikes, so is battle fury considered an additional strike that happens before damage barrier...

Battle Fury is not an additional strike. It happens during Step 8 which occurs after the Damage Barrier (Step 6) of an attack.

Now the stun is a very good question. On both page 9 and page 28 of the Rulebook v2.0 it talks about how a condition applied from a damage barrier or counterstrike is not "resolved" until the end of the next action phase. It also talks about how resolving the condition at the end of an action phase removes that condition. Therefore, in both cases, I presume it is talking purely about removal and not the application of conditions. Thus, my assumption is that stun does get applied immediately by the damage barrier or counterstrike.

Then we have a new question on our hands as to whether stun just prevents you from initiating an action or if it can stop an action that is already in progress. I could be wrong about this, but I believe it would stop the Battle Fury, and here's why. During Step 1: Declare Attack, you must check to see if you can legally attack your target with the Battle Fury attack, and I would assume the answer to that question is "no" because you are stunned.

Quote from: jacksmack
Official answer on this please.

I think some clarification would be nice regarding Battle Fury and Counterstrikes myself. Maybe a little help on the stun question as well.

Laddinfance

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2013, 06:35:56 PM »
Battle Fury does trigger damage barriers. This is because the extra attack is triggered after all the steps of the attack sequence, then it takes you back to the beginning to run through again.

Now I'll be looking at the stun question later and I'll try to get you guys an answer.

Zuberi

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2013, 07:00:22 PM »
Quote from: Laddinfance
Battle Fury does trigger damage barriers.

I apologize for giving misinformation in that case. However, I think you guys need to update the rules with this information as the passage I quoted from the rulebook on page 27:

Quote from: Rulebook
A damage barrier can attack each attacker once each round.

seems to strongly suggest you can not attack the same creature twice with the same damage barrier in the same round.

Laddinfance

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Re: Battle Fury (retarget?)
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2013, 07:07:36 PM »
I can totally understand that sir. I'll have to talk to Bryan. I can see where your ruling came from. I'll bring this up with him when I'm looking up the stun ruling.

So I guess now, I'm not as sure on the ruling, but I will get back to you all.