February 16, 2020, 12:24:24 PM

Author Topic: Let's talk about the Druid!  (Read 26301 times)

MrSaucy

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2013, 11:27:21 PM »
Seems to me that Deathlock should be an auto-play against the Druid.

Oh yes. I have played several DvN games as Necromancer, and whenever I didn't play Deathlock I regretted it.

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2013, 11:36:51 AM »
Deathlock against the Druid is not as strong as it may first seem. Yes, it does help counter what she does best but it does not do I for as long as you would think. She has this incredible ability to spread her vines really, really fast. If you play death lock turn one, as I see most players do, you are doing nothing but helping the Druid position herself to control the board by round 4 or 5. It soil be different if she herself had to toto your corner to stop you but she doesn't. As well, healing doesn't even become a huge issue until late game. If anything, a turn 1 death lock would see a vine tree that isn't tree bound; because i know you are going to focus it down anyways, so I'm going to use it for the ability to place. An extra marker so that when deathlock does godown, I can then tree bond a tree that will take even more advantage of the healing. I don't know, it is a good counter, but against a good Druid player, it doesn't pose as great of a threat as it does in theory.
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MrSaucy

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2013, 04:35:51 PM »
Deathlock against the Druid is not as strong as it may first seem. Yes, it does help counter what she does best but it does not do I for as long as you would think. She has this incredible ability to spread her vines really, really fast. If you play death lock turn one, as I see most players do, you are doing nothing but helping the Druid position herself to control the board by round 4 or 5. It soil be different if she herself had to toto your corner to stop you but she doesn't. As well, healing doesn't even become a huge issue until late game. If anything, a turn 1 death lock would see a vine tree that isn't tree bound; because i know you are going to focus it down anyways, so I'm going to use it for the ability to place. An extra marker so that when deathlock does godown, I can then tree bond a tree that will take even more advantage of the healing. I don't know, it is a good counter, but against a good Druid player, it doesn't pose as great of a threat as it does in theory.

I never play Deathlock vs Druid on turn 1. If I do play Deathlock vs Druid I usually play it on Turn 3 or 4. True, Deathlock doesn't shutdown the Druid, but if you can apply early pressure to the Druid it helps to have Deathlock out to shut down her health regeneration. The Druid can find ways to work around Deathlock, sure, but it gives her another thing to worry about.
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ACG

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2013, 05:14:03 PM »
Another random thought about the Druid, Sunfire Amulet has good synergy with the Lifebond ability from her Treebond.

Since she's gaining 1 health every round, she has more elbow room to shoulder damage for the tree onto herself.  (not to mention both her and the tree can be regenerating too)

Yes. It is unfortunate that Sunfire Amulet conflicts with Meditation Amulet.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 05:24:10 PM by ACG »

The Dude

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2013, 05:38:49 PM »
I guess that is just where interesting strategy will prevail. I don't think reliance on passive healing will win you the game as much as people may think it will. For example an interesting book a friend of mine played was Druid with two temple of the dawnbreakers. This was a strong strategy because it rerolled high damage attacks and effect dice with something easily managed with tree bond and regen. As well, level one water is not something to take lightly. Combining these elements to make an interesting, cohesive strategy will lead to better results against an aggro deathlock deck. I'm not saying that deathlock won't be effective, but rather much less of an impact that when first thought upon, dig?
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Aylin

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2013, 06:22:19 PM »
Yes. It is unfortunate that Sunfire Amulet conflicts with Meditation Amulet.

That isn't much of a conflict...
One gives you 1 life per turn. The other is a waste of spellpoints.

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2013, 07:05:09 PM »
waste of spellpoints? Sir, I disagree completely. That a little harsh considering the card hasn't been released that long. In playtesting, the card has set me up for countless incredibly strong openings. Widely usable like sunfire? No. But a waste of spellpoints? Definitely not.
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Aylin

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2013, 07:22:57 PM »
waste of spellpoints? Sir, I disagree completely. That a little harsh considering the card hasn't been released that long. In playtesting, the card has set me up for countless incredibly strong openings. Widely usable like sunfire? No. But a waste of spellpoints? Definitely not.

It might be a bit harsh, but I've yet to see any reason casting it as a Druid wouldn't be a detriment. Also I'm not a sir.

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2013, 07:34:35 PM »
I apologize, good ma'am, I did not realize you weren't a male! Most people on here are guys, so it's great to see so diversity in these forums. But, onto the point. As I said before, meditation amulet is not a catch all clause. It's only good if you build around it. Specifically, an opening involving meditation amulet gives you a wide birth of options to not only spend more mana when deploying or casting creatures, but also to setup. Cheers!



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MrSaucy

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2013, 08:08:12 PM »
Yes. It is unfortunate that Sunfire Amulet conflicts with Meditation Amulet.

That isn't much of a conflict...
One gives you 1 life per turn. The other is a waste of spellpoints.

Funny you say that. I haven't played with Sunfire Amulet or Meditation Amulet but I always thought Meditation Amulet looked a lot more helpful. Extra mana is nothing to scoff at, especially an additional 3 mana. There is a huge difference between having, say, 10 mana on your next turn and 13 mana on your next turn. Not to mention, the Druid can easily become mana starved. Meditation Amulet can alleviate that problem. Finally, if you happen to have a full action that would go to waste by doing nothing, Meditation Amulet is always there as something to fall back on.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 08:11:45 PM by MrSaucy »
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Aylin

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2013, 08:23:55 PM »
As I said before, meditation amulet is not a catch all clause. It's only good if you build around it. Specifically, an opening involving meditation amulet gives you a wide birth of options to not only spend more mana when deploying or casting creatures, but also to setup. Cheers!

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In the games that I've played as Druid, I've done best when I've been aggressive immediately. She's the first mage with a cheap spawnpoint that can cast to almost any zone in the area, so you can overwhelm the opponent in actions. The only mage which can match that is the Necromancer with Libro (which isn't nearly as awesome as Vine Tree), but Corrosive Orchard can dissolve it at range "up to 2 zones away from any vine marker", and it gets around Nullify. In the early game actions matter more than extra mana, especially for her (plant creatures being so cheap for what you get), and in the mid or late game it's a bit late to capitalize on mana increasing spells.

Giving up that action advantage for a bit of extra mana seems like a huge mistake for her. I've analyzed using Vine + Samara with Meditation Amulet to death, and it doesn't work at all.

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2013, 08:43:38 PM »
This is where I tend to disagree. In hyper aggressive matches, you have to rely on both mana and action efficiency to help spike your damage as much as possible. Couple that with how much you have to spend in spellbook points, and you quickly have to find a good damage engine that both supports your school as well as dealing high amounts of damage quickly so that you can the opponent before your mana, and therefore your mage actions, simmer out.

Nothing in school for the druid points her to an effective hyper aggressive strategy. She has neither the brute melee force nor the powerful attack spells to really make an effective strike against the opponent. Which brings me to how she has effectively opened in all the games I have seen, which is a strong mana base supported by action efficiency in a slow, but effective, way. Even her mage abilites point to something more controlled, and tempo driven. She has the ability to go aggressive if need be, but that aggressive fire is short lived and saved best for the late game. This is where meditation amulet fits in. It's a four cost piece of equipment, that, yes, causes you to spend your full actions, but as you said, she has the first cheap spawnpoint able to cast almost anywhere on the board. She doesn't really even need her full actions to move or cast creatures, because those vines do the job, and do it well, for her. Couple that with the ability to shoot walls from anywhere, and you quickly have a powerful mage that can really effectively turtle. I say this from experience, and not theory, mind you, because while I have gotten lucky with an aggressive druid once or twice, she has nowhere near the strength of a tempo control druid.

As well, the druid seems to benefit from that mana a lot moreso than other mages that have nine channeling do. Those other mages have a real strength in active play, while the druid can be fairly reactive, and stay in the game. Considering that she can drop a battle forge and vine tree turn one (which is a strong play with the druid), cast meditation off the battle forge, and still have plenty of effective free actions left, she's not a bad target for mediation amulet at all. I'm not saying it's perfect, because there is not a single perfect strategy that exists in this game, but I am saying that it is strong, and it is effective. the druid has the fantastic capabilities that we have not seen yet in mages thus far, and that is the ability to not cast huge threats and still be a threat. That may sound confusing upon first reading, but it does ring true. She is has the ulitiy to deal almost any threat handed to her, and in fantastic ways, I might add.

But, these are just my thoughts on her, and her particular strengths.
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Aylin

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2013, 09:07:49 PM »
I do find it slightly odd that you mention her in-school spells not lending themselves to early aggression (and I don't mean putting everything into aggression and not building up - that would be silly), but then mention playing a Battleforge...both parts of which are triple cost for her.

What I mean is that on turn 2 she can have a Roused Raptor Vine attacking the enemy mage (and still have out Vine Tree, Leaf Ring, and possible Mana Flower), and then on Turn 3 follow it up with a Thornlasher, Enchanter's Ring, and Bear Strength on the Raptor Vine. You're still building up (using that action advantage), but you're also putting your opponent on the defensive, disrupting any plans s/he may have had for the early game. Against Fire mages a different tactic would be used of course, but I mean she can disrupt the opponent with an aggressive act and still build up.

I would never advocate that the Druid should focus everything into aggression in the early game; as you said that would destroy her strength.

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2013, 09:26:24 PM »
My necromancer just got paddled by the druid. I built up an army of skeletons while he summoned vine raptors and spread vines across the board. A few well placed walls by him and my army was at a standstill. His plants ate it piecemeal. When I lit his mage on fire he extinguished it with purifying (cleansing?) rain. Deathlock scared him for a turn or two but vine raptors ate it. Malacoda gave him a brief scare but he took out M's armor and killed it with a full court press.

I made a few errors with the Necromancer, but the Druid was flexible, unpredictable, and resilient.

MrSaucy

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Re: Let's talk about the Druid!
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2013, 11:06:43 PM »
I built up an army of skeletons... I made a few errors with the Necromancer, but the Druid was flexible, unpredictable, and resilient.

(Necromancer works better with Zombies than with Skeletons. Trust me. I have tried both.)

But yeah, Druid is a fierce and unpredictable opponent. Even in games where I have seen the Druid lose she puts up one heck of a fight. Next to the Preistess she is one of the hardest mages to kill.
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