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Author Topic: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards  (Read 14190 times)

Aylin

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Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« on: December 07, 2013, 04:16:32 AM »
Several spells currently in the game feel so weak...either because they have much cheaper hard counters or they're just lackluster.

I think many of these problems could be fixed with minor adjustments.

Spell: Akiro's Hammer
Problems: Nearly useless if the opponent doesn't have many conjurations, can be shut down completely by a spell 1/3 its level and 1/3 its price.
Possible Solution: Give Akiro's Hammer the Indirect Fire trait. It's a freaking Legendary Trebuchet. Surely the operators would know how to fire over one measly little wall (or bank of fog as the case may be). This would prevent it from being hardcountered by Fog Bank, Wall of Fire, etc without making it too strong. It would still only be used against Conjurations, but at least now it has a chance of being effective.

Spell: Akiro's Battle Cry
Problems: Expensive and Epic
Possible Solution: Lower the price. It's a level 4 Epic spell, so it should actually be awesome, not just costed as if it were. The two most similar spells (Zombie Frenzy and Call of the Wild) also give arena-wide benefits, yet the others are not epic. They're also objectively better (Zombie Frenzy is amazing and Call of the Wild is decently costed for what it does). Akiro's Battle Cry should cost, at most, 10. Additionally, the Warlord should be included in the effects of the spell (reword to 'The Warlord and all friendly soldier creatures'), and it should give a benefit to Veterans (Friendly Veterans instead gain Melee +2, for example).

Spell: War Sledge
Problems: The quick attack is fairly weak for equipment items (actually it is the weakest attack currently on a weapon), and it is two handed. The full attack is decent, but even without other one-handed war weapons many players don't think it's worth using this. Considering that it prevents the use of a wand or shield (not yet released), the attacks need to make up for it. Currently...they don't. At all.
Possible Solution: Since this weapon is two-handed, it should hit harder than one-handed weapons. (If any of you have swung a sword, you know strikes with two hands are much harder than strikes with one). Increasing the dice from 4 to 5 on both attacks should make this weapon more appealing.

Spell: Hunting Bow
Problems: Against anything nonliving (the ever popular Golem Pit and Necromancer builds) this weapon is just a more expensive Ivarium Longbow. Even against Living targets you have to first attack and damage the target with an animal...something many players think isn't worth the time.
Possible Solution: Does this really need to cost more than the Ivarium Longbow? 3 mana for 50% bleed against the right targets in the right circumstances isn't really a good deal. Either the price should be 8 or 9, or the benefit gained should be useful against nonliving foes as well...say gaining the Ranged +1 Trait instead of the extra pierce.

Spell: Garrison Post
Problems: It's presence boosts the channeling of the Barracks, yet the Barracks can't deploy creatures to the Garrison Post
Possible Solution: Just let the Barracks deploy creatures to a friendly Garrison Post.

Spell: Earth Elemental
Problems: Weaker than the lower-leveled Iron Golem in every way (bad example, I know, but it shouldn't be this much weaker).
Possible Solution: Turn "Two-Fisted Power Smash" into a quick attack. This would at least let it take advantage of things like Charge or let it reasonably guard. As it stands now this thing is just too easy to ignore.

Spell: Invisible Stalker
Problems: Expensive and lackluster. It cannot be buffed by either animal enchantments or incantations, it has upkeep, and the attack can often just be ignored with a few pieces of armour.
Possible Solution: Add piercing (I think Piercing +2 would be good) to the attack to make it more threatening.

Spell: Bridge Troll
Problems: Not useful to any of the Nature Mages since it isn't a plant/animal, over-costed for the Warlord to take since it's more Nature than War.
Possible Solution: Turn the spell from 2 Nature & 1 War to 2 War & 1 Nature. This would make it more feasible for Warlords to take, while the Nature Mages (in general) don't lose anything


Obviously I've missed several several spells that could use some attention. I know that all of the above spells are from the 2nd two expansions, so it's understandable that some of them are this imbalanced. However, I think if they can errata cards that are brokenly powerful then errataing some of the weakest cards should also be an option.

Opinions?

aquestrion

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 05:20:03 AM »
All cards are fine the way they are.

I dont want them to erratta or "clarification" any more cards.
When i play with new people they get mad because it isnt printed on the card, note most make sense malacoda mohkarti and tangelvine, but it really hampers gameplay if it isnt clearly written on the card.

If arcane wonders would print an "erattum spell tome" i would happily throw even more money at this game. But waiting for cards to be rereleased is killer when packs come out every 4 to 5 monthes

Aylin

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 05:48:28 AM »
I'd rather cards have slightly wrong text but be useful, rather than have the right text and be relegated to the dust bin. I can see it being a minor hamper to gameplay, but that's why I tried to suggest the smallest possible changes I could to make them better. I've never liked knowing that some cards/abilities/characters whatever in a game are useless when something could be done about it.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 05:58:09 AM by AylinIsAwesome »

ringkichard

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 08:42:37 AM »
I think your list of underperforming cards it's a pretty good one (though I think troll is fine as is) but I feel like you're trying to kill a bug with a hammer.
Altering cards after they've been printed hurts the integrity of the game a bit, and should be reserved for those situations where leaving the cards unaltered hurts more. I get that low power cards are not great, but they're much safer for the game than unrestricted Hand of Bim-Shalla was.

Basically, I don't think what you're proposing are minor fixes, because you're using such a powerful tool. Are there other tools we could use?

Also, it's weird to me how much attention Akiro's Hammer gets compared to Gate To Hell, for example. Generally, cheep conjurations are very good, expensive ones are not, and Akiro's hammer doesn't buck that trend.
I can take the fun out of anything. It's true; here, look at this spreadsheet.

krj

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2013, 09:03:39 AM »
I agree with your list AylinIsAwesome and also would add to it Gate to Hell which was mentioned by ringkichard.

Unfortunately it can be hard to change them at this moment. We would need some errata pack if it would happen.

Zuberi

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2013, 09:10:11 AM »
I agree with Ringkichard. You might not be hitting them very hard with that hammer, but you're still using a hammer. I would rather introduce new cards that change the meta slightly, allowing previously poor cards to be more worthwhile.

For example, if we introduced an enchantment that gives your mage Melee +2 whenever they attack with a 2-handed weapon, the War Sledge would be a lot more valuable (as would any future 2-handed melee weapons).

baronzaltor

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2013, 12:50:18 PM »
War Sledge looks to me like it was designed with Warlord's battle skill in mind.  Its printed at 4, but will always swing at 5 on its quick and 5/4 on its sweep since no one else can use it.

Gate to Hell could stand to go back to the shop too.

Aylin

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2013, 03:33:33 PM »
War Sledge looks to me like it was designed with Warlord's battle skill in mind.  Its printed at 4, but will always swing at 5 on its quick and 5/4 on its sweep since no one else can use it.

All of the other weapons weapons the Warlord can use also swing at 5 for the same reason though. It'll be more of a problem after the other one-handed weapons are released.

Quote
Gate to Hell could stand to go back to the shop too.

Ooh, that's a good one I'd forgotten.



I see what everyone is saying. But are there better ways to make some of these cards better? I'm coming up empty for several of them.

aquestrion

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2013, 08:48:19 PM »
What about moon glow fairy. I've built a deck around her just so that way I could say she has been used at least once. Other than going out of my way to play her I never would... but just because she isn't good right now she could become as useful as the blue gremlin if they started releasing more incorporeal objects....

Cards can be released to make other cards good.

Aylin

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2013, 09:18:10 PM »
What about moon glow fairy. I've built a deck around her just so that way I could say she has been used at least once. Other than going out of my way to play her I never would... but just because she isn't good right now she could become as useful as the blue gremlin if they started releasing more incorporeal objects....

Cards can be released to make other cards good.

I am aware that the power of cards is based on the meta those cards are in. Many weaker cards will be improved that way.


But how can Akiro's Hammer be improved with more cards? You could say more conjurations, but it does so poorly against them now that most conjuratoin-heavy builds don't even waste the time to think about it. And it would still be shut down completely by Fog Bank. There is almost no comparison between this and Moonglow Fairy. The Fairy's case is one in which the role it was created to fulfill isn't needed, but this is a case where it just fails at everything.

aquestrion

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2013, 09:26:14 PM »
Yes akiros hammer can be shut down with a fog bank. But if you put a wall in front of it yourself don't you shut down that potential fog bank?

Aylin

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2013, 09:30:35 PM »
Yes akiros hammer can be shut down with a fog bank. But if you put a wall in front of it yourself don't you shut down that potential fog bank?

That's like saying the cure for a broken toe is to cut off your foot.

ACG

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 09:36:40 PM »
Yes akiros hammer can be shut down with a fog bank. But if you put a wall in front of it yourself don't you shut down that potential fog bank?

That's like saying the cure for a broken toe is to cut off your foot.

Depends what the wall is. A wall of Pikes or a Bloodspine wall would not block LOS, and would prevent the other player from playing a wall on that border.

aquestrion

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2013, 09:41:47 PM »
Yeah that's what I meant play akiros hammer and put a non blocked los wall in front of it so they couldn't block los blood spine wall is 4 manager fog bank is four mana

Aylin

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Re: Minor Fixes to Underpowered Cards
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2013, 09:45:49 PM »
Yes akiros hammer can be shut down with a fog bank. But if you put a wall in front of it yourself don't you shut down that potential fog bank?

That's like saying the cure for a broken toe is to cut off your foot.

Depends what the wall is. A wall of Pikes or a Bloodspine wall would not block LOS, and would prevent the other player from playing a wall on that border.

I had forgotten about walls that don't block LoS. I apologize aquestrion, for my rude remark.

However, even doing that wouldn't fully solve the problem. Because of the awkwardness of its range, a Fog Bank could still be placed 1 zone away from the Hammer, and it would still block several zones from view.

Having to cast a Wall of Pikes to prevent your legendary level 3 War Machine from being hardcountered by fog is poor design either way. 16 mana and 2 actions just aren't worth that, especially since when Ballista comes out it'll outclass Akiro's Hammer, costing half of the the price (so 2 Ballistas for the same mana/actions), having a comparable attack, and not having issues with targeting.