August 21, 2019, 10:17:31 AM

Author Topic: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell  (Read 16780 times)

lettucemode

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 03:35:05 PM »
@Zuberi - If I have initiative, he can wait until the final quickcast phase to cast it on me, then Jinx his initial QC next round. If I don't have initiative and can kill it with a Seeking Dispel, and the holy mage decides NOT to do the DI trick, now I have prepared a useless spell for the round and lost tempo anyway. I already covered this but maybe my post was not read thoroughly.

@Wildhorn - Jinx

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2014, 03:44:38 PM »
@Zuberi - If I have initiative, he can wait until the final quickcast phase to cast it on me, then Jinx his initial QC next round. If I don't have initiative and can kill it with a Seeking Dispel, and the holy mage decides NOT to do the DI trick, now I have prepared a useless spell for the round and lost tempo anyway. I already covered this but maybe my post was not read thoroughly.

@Wildhorn - Jinx

If he wait final.QC it means that you have your normal first round to cast spawnpoint/vinetree.

lettucemode

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2014, 04:24:26 PM »

If he wait final.QC it means that you have your normal first round to cast spawnpoint/vinetree.

Let me back up a bit and explain myself a bit more fully.

There are several variations on a Priestess casting DI on the enemy mage turn 1. If she has initiative or not, if she waits until the final QC phase or not, etc.  The point I am trying to make is that responding appropriately to each one requires preparing a different set of spells in rounds 1 and 2, and there is no way to determine with certainty which set to prepare ahead of time. The opponent has to guess. If he guesses correctly, great. If he doesn't though, or if initiative is such that it doesn't matter, the game may as well be over at that point.

So when I bring up a specific situation as an example, and you give me the correct counter-play to that example, you are missing the point. The point is that before the Priestess does the DI trick, before spells are prepared, before mages are revealed, before the players even sit down at the table or computer to play, the opponent of the holy mage is severely disadvantaged because of this ruling related to DI.

Some books aren't affected very much by it, but the ones that are can and will be shut down very quick. Not because of an overall book strategy or because of skilled play, but because of one card. One single card, the counter-play to which is guessing right during two Planning phases in a row and getting lucky on initiative.

And I have not even gotten started on this spell cancelling a Grizzly or Thorg in the midgame.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 04:28:18 PM by lettucemode »

Shad0w

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2014, 05:43:14 PM »
Depending on what you expecting as the holy mage. I go Jinx or Nullify. Sometimes I even will Tele decoy then DI
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ringkichard

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2014, 06:15:16 PM »
Man, this thread is really stealing my thunder :) Hey, Pat! Better print it while it's still relevant! :P
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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2014, 06:27:31 PM »
I don't see an issue here. If I land the DI on round one. I have moved once then then teleported (my action) then used my QC marker to land the DI assuming I have initiative and did this all in one burst, i.e. passed during the first QC phase.  I have spent 8 of 20 mana leaving me 12. If my opponent also passed (see this most of the time with experienced players) then I know no to cast my fatty which with the lord of fire I have to wait to round 2 any ways. I know that it is more than likely a DI. I have to pull out at least 1 if not 2 Seeking Dispels. Yes this is a small loss of tempo but I am just banking mana at that point, which with a LoF opening was my plan any ways. Now I get rid of the DI, which is a blow to the Holy mage and bring out the LoF any ways or if Jinxed use the second Seeking Dispel. Since DI is DI it can even interrupt a DI and tele me some where else. But does it matter at that point? If it is a feint and you use your 1st Seeking dispel on a Decoy, then the DI is played and then I still have that second Seeking Dispel in my pocket.  I tried this once with Charmyna and lost badly, so it is really edge case and with experience (like most things in MW) can be countered with a minor loss of early tempo that swings in your favor quickly after it is taken care of.
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Shad0w

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2014, 06:34:46 PM »
Only if the other player is not expecting it is it a complete blowout.
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sIKE

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2014, 07:30:58 PM »
Only if the other player is not expecting it is it a complete blowout.
Wall of Thorns Push Push comes to mind....fool me once....
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Shad0w

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2014, 07:49:39 PM »
Only if the other player is not expecting it is it a complete blowout.
Wall of Thorns Push Push comes to mind....fool me once....

Marked for Death used to work for all attacks not just creature. Imagine that with the wall.
"Darth come prove to meet you are worthy of the fighting for your school in the arena and not just another scholar to be discarded like an worn out rag doll"


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sIKE

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2014, 07:58:04 PM »
Only if the other player is not expecting it is it a complete blowout.
Wall of Thorns Push Push comes to mind....fool me once....

Marked for Death used to work for all attacks not just creature. Imagine that with the wall.
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Shad0w

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2014, 08:16:57 PM »
It also allowed for more than 1 bonus at a time. At that time wall was not level -1 so it was 6x3 per push.
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FruchtYogurt

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2014, 05:31:33 AM »
Wow so much discussion about DI!

But back to the topic ;)

Is the wording in the example "Wizzard" for Divine Intervention in the FAQ intentional? Does the enemy mage have to be teleported to a diffrent zone?

jacksmack

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2014, 06:20:00 AM »
It also allowed for more than 1 bonus at a time. At that time wall was not level -1 so it was 6x3 per push.

Back then the game wasnt called mage wars - it was Wall of Thorns War!

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2014, 10:17:15 AM »
If you haven't checked out the latest Mage Wars strategy article "Introducing Teleport" by ringkichard, check it out here .


"The Mage Wars arena is six zones wide (from corner to corner), so to attack your opponent at the start of the game you need to move five times. But crossing that distance can be a chore. Each game round you can move once with your move action, and then again with a your quick action, but crossing on foot takes time, and you didnít learn magic just so you could run everywhere. But thereís a solution!"






FruchtYogurt

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Re: Divine Intervention & Creature Spell
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2014, 03:09:41 AM »
Ok then it has to be a different zone.

But then the wording in the FAQ should be adapted. As there it is stated that the spell fails if the caster moves (for example through DI this even applies if the teleport was into the same zone). Thus there is no need for the target zone to change in order to make the spell fail.

Changing the Range or Target of a Spell or Attack
A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
1.
The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
2.
The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the move was to a location where the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies even if the teleport was into the same zone).

Or am I reading it wrong?