April 03, 2020, 02:13:06 AM

Author Topic: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book  (Read 11737 times)

Zuberi

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Re: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2014, 08:30:32 PM »
I'm with somaddict overall. I would like to see some Mind creatures worth using rather than feeling forced to delve into a category of magic that I'm weak in. Feels like a really unfair tax. I will say that I don't think the current mind creatures are necessarily bad, however. Thoughtspore is actually a very good familiar in my opinion, and the other two could be good with the right card support. That support just doesn't really feel like it's present currently.

Aylin

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Re: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2014, 12:40:10 AM »
I'm with somaddict overall. I would like to see some Mind creatures worth using rather than feeling forced to delve into a category of magic that I'm weak in. Feels like a really unfair tax. I will say that I don't think the current mind creatures are necessarily bad, however. Thoughtspore is actually a very good familiar in my opinion, and the other two could be good with the right card support. That support just doesn't really feel like it's present currently.

I personally don't think anything could save Psylock. A 0-0 full action ranged attack that so many creatures are flat-out immune to feels like it'll always be dead weight.

Invisible Stalker has more potential, and would be a lot more popular if it wasn't a pain in the ass to support it at all. A Mind Mage only (if it was open to all I think it would run the risk of removing the Stalker's only advantage) item that lets you see invisible creatures would change how it's viewed...literally.

sdougla2

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Re: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2014, 12:50:03 AM »
If Psylok were a quick action to cast and had it's attack upgraded to being a quick action, I could see it being usable. In it's current form, it's horrendously bad.
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Aylin

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Re: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2014, 12:57:06 AM »
If Psylok were a quick action to cast and had it's attack upgraded to being a quick action, I could see it being usable. In it's current form, it's horrendously bad.

That would have so much tactical potential! If only...

Zuberi

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Re: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2014, 01:46:16 AM »
The issue of Psychic Immunity is currently a big deal for the Psylok. Psychic Immunity is simply a LOT more relevant in the current meta than other types of immunities. It is both common and protects against a lot of spells, conditions, and attacks. The next closest would be Poison Immunity, but I can't think of any creatures that deal poison damage with their attack. Some have effects that deal it though and there are several spells and conditions affected by it. Besides those two though, immunities don't generally have a huge impact.

Eventually though, I expect Acid, Flame, Hydro, Light, Lightning, and Wind immunity to be just as common and powerful as Psychic Immunity which will in turn make all of them have a smaller impact on the game in general.

Psylok will still have problems with it's attack being a Full Action though. The attack itself is very powerful, being able to slice through defenses, armor, and resillient like a hot knife through butter. It's just hard to pull off with a small flying pest that can't both move and attack in the same round. The Mind School has lots of spells and abilities to put and keep things in position though, so this could be compensated for.

However, it will still be a level 2 creature. Which in my experience, level 2 creatures are usually only popular with swarms or mages who have a "Pet" type ability. The Forcemaster lacks any "Pet" ability, so unless a Swarm becomes viable for her, I don't see any level 2 creatures being extremely popular.

All told, it is indeed a hard fix but I don't believe it is impossible. To illustrate my point, consider the following. If it was an Animal creature in the Nature School with the exact same stats except it dealt Lightning damage, I think Beastmasters would love it. They could get out a swarm fairly easily, use tanglevines/stranglevines to root enemies in place, and then fly in to chew through their worthless defenses. Add a Marked for Death to increase the damage by 50%. This comparison shows that it's the current state of the card pool that limits Psylok and not the creature itself that is "dead weight."

Aylin

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Re: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2014, 09:31:32 AM »
The issue of Psychic Immunity is currently a big deal for the Psylok. Psychic Immunity is simply a LOT more relevant in the current meta than other types of immunities. It is both common and protects against a lot of spells, conditions, and attacks. The next closest would be Poison Immunity, but I can't think of any creatures that deal poison damage with their attack. Some have effects that deal it though and there are several spells and conditions affected by it. Besides those two though, immunities don't generally have a huge impact.

Eventually though, I expect Acid, Flame, Hydro, Light, Lightning, and Wind immunity to be just as common and powerful as Psychic Immunity which will in turn make all of them have a smaller impact on the game in general.

Psylok will still have problems with it's attack being a Full Action though. The attack itself is very powerful, being able to slice through defenses, armor, and resillient like a hot knife through butter. It's just hard to pull off with a small flying pest that can't both move and attack in the same round. The Mind School has lots of spells and abilities to put and keep things in position though, so this could be compensated for.

However, it will still be a level 2 creature. Which in my experience, level 2 creatures are usually only popular with swarms or mages who have a "Pet" type ability. The Forcemaster lacks any "Pet" ability, so unless a Swarm becomes viable for her, I don't see any level 2 creatures being extremely popular.

All told, it is indeed a hard fix but I don't believe it is impossible. To illustrate my point, consider the following. If it was an Animal creature in the Nature School with the exact same stats except it dealt Lightning damage, I think Beastmasters would love it. They could get out a swarm fairly easily, use tanglevines/stranglevines to root enemies in place, and then fly in to chew through their worthless defenses. Add a Marked for Death to increase the damage by 50%. This comparison shows that it's the current state of the card pool that limits Psylok and not the creature itself that is "dead weight."

In your example you've fundamentally changed how it interacts with other cards. And even then we don't know for certain if that would become a staple of Beastmasters. That hardly shows anything.

The simplest "fix" (in addition to making Psychic Immunity matter less) would be to make the Ranged attack 0-1 instead of 0-0.

Zuberi

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Re: Finally found a non-mind creature worth putting in my forcemaster book
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2014, 12:46:42 PM »
Quote from: Aylin
In your example you've fundamentally changed how it interacts with other cards.

That was exactly the point I was trying to make, my dear. It is the OTHER cards currently in distribution (or lack thereof) that are affecting it's viability. I didn't actually change anything important about this card. Lightning and Psychic damage should, theoretically, be equal and the spell's subtype and school of magic does not affect what the card itself is capable of.

These things aren't really messing with what the card itself is doing. It only affects how other cards in the meta interact with it. We could then summon out a swarm quickly using a spawn point and would not have to worry about an overabundance of immune creatures. I'm not saying that it would become a staple, per se, only illustrating that it could be viable in the right card pool without any changes needed to the actual creature.

I think people are a little too quick to dismiss cards or suggest errata for cards because of how they work in the current game environment. They fail to see their potential. I think that a huge opportunity was missed with the Psylok as it could have been a god send against all of the resilient and high armor creatures that have seen a lot of attention. Unfortunately, those creatures are pretty much all immune to it. That doesn't mean it can't see a resurgence later, though, as it is in fact a perfectly decent creature given the right opportunity.