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Author Topic: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?  (Read 10183 times)

ahzrab

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Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« on: May 26, 2014, 05:34:56 PM »
Hi folks,

I'm new on the forums and first of all, sorry for the "tier 1" mtg term.

I got into MW with some friends a few weeks ago and as for now, I'm the card provider for my group.

After playing with the preconstructed decks for a while now, I would like to build some more sophisticated/powerful decks in the future (I got all the expansions and several copies of the core spellbooks)

Can someone point me to 3 or 4 current strong spellbooks which are more or less equal in their comparative powerlevel?

I figured that Charmyna's Watergate/BB build is probably still quite strong?

Cheers

Lord0fWinter

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 10:37:19 AM »
Welcome to the Arena ahzrab!

The amount of "competitive" spellbooks you can build is really dependent on what you have access to, whether it's just one core set, the core set + expansions, multiple core sets, etc.

So before we can recommend some spellbooks, we would need to know what you have, b/c there are some cards (teleport, dissolve, dispel) that are essential to every book; but only a few of each are included in the core set.

If you only have the core, you'll really only be able to build 2 decent spellbooks (and even then, they'll be lacking teleports) unless you plan on using proxied cards.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 10:40:37 AM by Lord0fWinter »
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Lukard

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2014, 10:38:43 AM »
Hi Ahzrab,

I am not really sure if you going to find what you are looking for. You can find many spellbooks on this forum, but I do not see a list of "top" or "tier 1" spellbooks.

In MW playing style, strategy differ from player to player. That being said, two player with the same spellbook may play very differently. Therefore, what might work well for one player might not work to a differently player.

On the other hand, building your own spellbooks is part of the fun.

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2014, 10:55:39 AM »
It might also depend of your local meta.

Death-from-above

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2014, 11:33:08 AM »
Both Lukard and Lord0fWinter hit it on the head. It all comes down to what cards you have access to and what sort of playstyle you prefer. I suppose that your own playstyle may be a little hard at first to deduce when you have only played a few rounds but usually you pick up pretty quickly how you prefer run a spellbook.

This forum topic right here http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=12477.0 has a fairly updated list of all the spellbooks people post on the forum if you would like to peruse and see what other ideas people have. Most of them have what the few opening turns would be and it sort of gives you an idea of how that spellbook should be played.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 08:36:26 AM by Death-from-above »
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Zuberi

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 02:08:46 AM »
Mage Wars does not yet have the competitive scene that a game like Magic the Gathering does. Most people play against a few people in their local metas and that's it. OCTGN has provided a simulacrum of a melting pot in which builds can be thrown against each other, but since games and specific books are rarely recorded it's hard to get a list of which builds do best. Thus, I fear you won't be able to find tier 1 books like you want, and as others have said a lot of a books power comes from how it is played.

There is a decent amount of consensus that the wizard is the most powerful mage currently and the warlord is the weakest, although the next expansion may change that up. There's also a consensus that swarms do not do well due to zone attacks and arena wide effects like Suppression Orb and Mordok's Obelisk. Solo builds also currently have a little trouble for different reasons.

Thus, my advise for you is to pick the Wizard if you want the strongest book you can make, the Warlord if you want a challenge, and any other if you prefer their style. I would recommend a few big creatures if you want an aggro strategy or mana denial if you want a control strategy. Other strategies are viable, just a bit more challenging. Besides that though, I'm afraid I can not point you towards specific builds that you should mimic.

I am currently writing a series on Lord0fWinter's blog regarding how to construct a spellbook, though I have lapsed on it in the last couple of weeks due to some real life pressures (I moved to a new house). It should renew updates this week though, and perhaps it shall assist you.

ahzrab

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 04:43:26 AM »
Thanks guys for the fast answers.

My cardpool is: 1x core set, 2x spell tome 1, 3x spell time 2 and all available expansions 1x.

I understand that the meta is still quite small and that there is lesser amount of serious testing and analysis like in MTG. I browsed the complete spellbook list but the problem for me is that a lot of the builds aren't up to date (regarding the current card pool). I can understand that this game is more about the player than the content of his spellbook and I'm not looking for the best build around, I'm looking for 4 equally strong builds.
So, instead of asking about the best books, I probably should ask, what do you guys think are the 4 strongest mages (if you have to rate them) and on what strategy/core cards you should focus with them.

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 10:29:21 AM »
Thanks guys for the fast answers.

My cardpool is: 1x core set, 2x spell tome 1, 3x spell time 2 and all available expansions 1x.

I understand that the meta is still quite small and that there is lesser amount of serious testing and analysis like in MTG. I browsed the complete spellbook list but the problem for me is that a lot of the builds aren't up to date (regarding the current card pool). I can understand that this game is more about the player than the content of his spellbook and I'm not looking for the best build around, I'm looking for 4 equally strong builds.
So, instead of asking about the best books, I probably should ask, what do you guys think are the 4 strongest mages (if you have to rate them) and on what strategy/core cards you should focus with them.

This is my list based on no promos.

1: Wizard
2: Druid, Necromancer
3: Priestess, Forcemaster, Beastmaster
4: Priest, Warlord, Warlock

I suspect i Johktari is tier 3, but i havent played her.

Lord0fWinter

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 10:59:42 AM »
So, instead of asking about the best books, I probably should ask, what do you guys think are the 4 strongest mages (if you have to rate them) and on what strategy/core cards you should focus with them.

There are many opinions on this, but the consensus is that the Wizard, nomatter which elemental school you choose, is the most powerful. This is because he has cheap access to Arcane spells like Teleport, Nullify, Dispel, Seeking Dispel, and those are all pretty essential and powerful.

After that, it gets a bit more complicated.

My opinion would be that it follows:
  • Wizard (any)
  • Druid, Necro, Priestess
  • Warlock, Forcemaster, Beastmaster, Priest
  • Warlord, Jokharti BM

Like I said though, those are my opinions.

If you wanted take the 4 Mages closest to each other in strength, I'd pick the Druid, Necro, Priestess, and Warlock. Even though I have the Druid and Necro rated a tier higher, the Warlock's fire spells are the best way to inflict damage to both of them.

Of course, the Necro and his creatures are immune to most of the Warlock's curses, so that's actually not so good of a match up after all... Maybe choose the Forcemaster instead and use the Grizzly build seen -->Here<--


I am currently writing a series on Lord0fWinter's blog regarding how to construct a spellbook, though I have lapsed on it in the last couple of weeks due to some real life pressures (I moved to a new house). It should renew updates this week though, and perhaps it shall assist you.

I would highly recommend reading those. They are very helpful and well written!
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Arlemus

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 04:13:20 PM »
Sigh, another "tier list" thread  ::).  Is there any way we can consolidate these? 

I can't be the only one who sees the hypocrisy of putting down the warlord for paying triple arcane, but recommending a book list that pays triple for grizzly bears.



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silverclawgrizzly

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 02:36:58 AM »
Sigh, another "tier list" thread  ::).  Is there any way we can consolidate these? 

I can't be the only one who sees the hypocrisy of putting down the warlord for paying triple arcane, but recommending a book list that pays triple for grizzly bears.

You're not.

In terms of "Top Tier" it doesn't actually exist far as I can tell. People can give you their favorite mages in a nice list but that doesn't nearly mean much honestly. I know a guy who's amazing with a Warlord and easily capable of beating the local Wizard players, who are no slouches at all either. People will say "swarm doesn't work" but I've yet to see that proven personally. This is literally a topic that has been argued around and around more times than I can remember(course I'm not so good with the memory.)

My advice, play the game a lot and find out what works for you. I'm pretty good picking starting mages for new players in my area but having never personally met you I couldn't tell you any more than that I'm afraid.
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Lord0fWinter

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 08:42:38 AM »
Sigh, another "tier list" thread  ::).  Is there any way we can consolidate these? 

Sorry, should have just put a link to one of the many other threads that discuss that subject :P

I can't be the only one who sees the hypocrisy of putting down the warlord for paying triple arcane, but recommending a book list that pays triple for grizzly bears.

While I don't think he's as bad as most people seem to (saying he's "unplayable"), I still think he's on the lowest tier. His triple arcane cost hurts much more that the FM triple creature cost. Forcemaster generally needs one or two creatures, so while that does cost a few spellbook points, it's not as bad as trying to put multiple copies of the "essential" cards in the Warlord's spellbook; teleport, dispel, nullify, etc.

Granted, I've seen Warlord spellbooks that have done very well without using those cards. But once you get teleported across the Arena and don't have a teleport to get yourself out, you're kinda in a bad spot. This has also been discussed many times though.
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ahzrab

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 02:51:44 AM »
Thanks to silverclawgrizzly and Lord0fWinter for the great answers.
I'm totally fine with playing my own brew and let it evolve over time.
Thing is, as I said, I'm the card provider for my group, so I was looking for good and equally strong builds, since I have to cater to 3 other players, who don't have the time to build from scratch but want to see how veteran decks look like.
Nvm for now, I'm working on four decks with Lord0fWinter's mage rating in mind.

Arlemus

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 04:35:22 PM »
Sigh, another "tier list" thread  ::).  Is there any way we can consolidate these? 

Sorry, should have just put a link to one of the many other threads that discuss that subject :P

I can't be the only one who sees the hypocrisy of putting down the warlord for paying triple arcane, but recommending a book list that pays triple for grizzly bears.

While I don't think he's as bad as most people seem to (saying he's "unplayable"), I still think he's on the lowest tier. His triple arcane cost hurts much more that the FM triple creature cost. Forcemaster generally needs one or two creatures, so while that does cost a few spellbook points, it's not as bad as trying to put multiple copies of the "essential" cards in the Warlord's spellbook; teleport, dispel, nullify, etc.

Granted, I've seen Warlord spellbooks that have done very well without using those cards. But once you get teleported across the Arena and don't have a teleport to get yourself out, you're kinda in a bad spot. This has also been discussed many times though.

Ok so let's compare.  Lets say you want to put in 2 copies of each of those spells (teleport, dispel, nullify) as warlord and compare it to putting in 2 grizzlies as forcemaster (as that but clearly states "2 glizzlies by turn 3).  I think most players would agree that you need at least 1-3 teleport, 2-3 dispel, and 1-3 nullify, so I think taking 2 of each for an average is fair.  Obviously it would depend on your book.

12 + 12 = 24 for grizzlies

12(2 tele) + 6(2 dispel) +6(2 nullify)= 24 for a relatively standard set of "essentials." 

Even if you took the list of "essentials" directly from the book you recommended, depending on whether or not you consider seeking dispel essential, that still comes to 24-27 points (18 teleport + 6 dispel = 24, with possible +3 for seeking dispel).

I really don't see what the problem is.  How exactly are the 24 points the FM is spending for 2 grizzlies any different than the ~24 points the Warlord is spending for "essential" spells?  I really don't think they are.
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Zuberi

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Re: Current Tier-1 Spellbooks?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2014, 01:58:47 PM »
I agree, Arlemus, that both the Forcemaster and the Warlord suffer from their weak schools more than any other mage. They are the only ones that are actually required to dip into their weak schools in order to make a viable build. However, the Forcemaster's play style is much better supported by the current card pool. She was actually considered overpowered for a brief time, before errata to Battle Fury. Her power has been in steady decline since her release, however, and the weakness for creatures is definitely holding her back from where she would otherwise be, but she remains viable because the cards still support her being super aggressive and killing her opponent before they have time to properly respond.

In comparison, the Warlord seems to want to swarm the field. There's already debate about swarms even being viable, and so many people would consider that to start him off with a handicap. Then you add in that his spawnpoint has not been considered very good, and his swarming play style goes down the drain. Finally, his Veterans ability is somewhat subpar because he has no control over it or any way to predict it's usefulness. It depends entirely on what strategy and creatures his opponent decides to use as to whether it is any good. All of the Forcemaster's abilities are good. The weak school tax definitely exacerbates things, but it's not the only thing.

That's taking a look at how things stand pre Forged in Fire. The errata to Garrison Post and all of the new cards being released will definitely change the playing field. But you are correct that the weak school tax affects both the Warlord and Forcemaster, it's just that there's a lot more going against the Warlord. I do not consider him unplayable like some have stated. I've seen him do very well with an Elite Squad of troops. However, he is definitely the most handicapped of the mages.