March 24, 2019, 04:28:05 AM

Author Topic: Large Hex Board  (Read 16981 times)

DaFurryFury

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2014, 02:19:02 AM »
Thanks for all the clarifications! This is gonna be fun. I think what I wanna try is a hoax board as close as possible to the regular board. My first idea looks somewhat like this.
A1  A2. A3. A4. A5
   B1. B2. B3. B4
C1. C2. C3. C4. C5

A1 and C5 are the start hexes. This board is only 2 neutral spaces larger than the original square board and there are still 3 four space paths on which you can get to the opponents corner so it's still very similar to the dynamic of the regular board but the new spatial issues make things more interesting IMHO. Especially with the addition of the two zones A3 and C3 being middle ground. I have yet to actually playtest it yet but I think one change that might happen is that I remove C1 and A5 corners. Of course this takes out the symmetry of the natural board but it could lend an advantage to having the start zones the only ones with 2 access points.

After this is explored I would like to continue by trying other shapes and see where that will bring me.

Anyway thanks again guys!
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ScaredyCat

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2014, 05:59:05 AM »
Clarification on Terrazas' post regarding board changes when playing 1v1. 
Our initial idea was to eliminate the outer ring but quickly realized this put starting mages one zone closer and would not do.  Instead we elected to trim the left and right edge (narrow the field) which in play testing achieved the desired result (see post #7 above).

I have to admit that 1v1 has not been thoroughly play tested as we prefer 1v1v1, 2v2, and 1v1v1v1 - Soooo much more action and tention  :o

DaFurryFury

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2014, 01:35:26 PM »


Green = in LoS
Red = NOT in LoS
I don't understand this picture. According to echephron's rules, at least in my interpretation of them, you would have LoS to the spaces that the red arrows are pointing to since one of the paths is not blocked.
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sIKE

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2014, 01:50:03 PM »
I think LOS is blocked in this case as the Red Arrows pass through the Zone border not the Zone.
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ScaredyCat

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2014, 04:41:04 PM »
The rule mod that we had to implement using hexes was:

Quote
MOD #2 (Walls at zone corners block LoS):

This was necessary because a hex zone offers 6 vs. 4 sides.  Our Goals with this mod:
(a) ensure walls continue to be an effective component of the game using hex zones
(b) do not adversely affect LoS determination

To ensure walls could still be effective we elected to modify the MW rules to permit a wall to block LoS at the corners (zone edge corners).  LoS is still determined from zone center but if that line crosses a zone corner with a wall on any connecting edge then Los is blocked.   This rule mod has proven very effective and achieved all our goals.

ScaredyCat

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2014, 04:47:37 PM »
Everyone - as a new member to the forum it took a few days to get my posts approved.

Please read the following post from earlier in this topic (you may have not yet seen it)

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14232.msg41870#msg41870

This explains our hex map board in detail with pictures, rule mods, multiplayer persepctive, and historical evolution of our design.

Enjoy ... I know we have  8)

DaFurryFury

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2014, 10:06:34 PM »
Okay, everything seems to make sense. Thanks all. Also the pictures are great SCat! You said you got Vinyl at a fabric store? Gonna can to look into that. At least for now, all my questions are answered and am ready to do my own play testing. Mine will only be 1v1s since I only have the one opponent at the moment. Will post the results.
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Schwenkgott

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2014, 04:09:32 AM »


Green = in LoS
Red = NOT in LoS

I like the idea of a Hexboard, but i have problems with this Line of Sight here. In my opinion, the Hex, were the red arrow points, should be IN Line of Sight, not OUT line of sight.
Akiro, I have never prayed to you before. No one will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that one stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Akiro... so grant me strength! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

ScaredyCat

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2014, 06:09:52 AM »
Schwenkgott - per the official rules you are 100% correct. 



Keep in mind that a hex arena has more zones in play than a square arena; not more area but more zones.  Looking at a range of 3 zones from the target zone the hex arena has 36 zones in play while the square arena has only 24 zones in play (about 33% more zones in play).

In a hex arena the effectiveness of walls to block LoS is greatly diminished when the  official rules are used. 
  • One wall can only effectively block a range of 58 degrees (5 zones) vs. 88 degrees in a square arena (4 zones);
  • Two connecting walls can only effectively block a range of 118 degrees (11 zones) vs. 178 degrees in a square arena (9 zones)


With our revision to the rule for hex arenas only:
  • One wall can effectively block a range of 60 degrees (7 zones) vs. 88 degrees in a square arena (4 zones)
  • Two connecting walls can effectively block a range of 120 degrees (13 zones) vs. 178 degrees in a square arena (9 zones)


Our rule mod for LoS still falls slightly short in effectiveness in a hex arena vs. square arena, but the increased range of motion with more zones seems to level things.

Schwenkgott

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2014, 06:27:31 AM »
Did i understand it correclty ... you summon 1 wall and are allowed to block 2/6 sides of a hex-zone?
Akiro, I have never prayed to you before. No one will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that one stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Akiro... so grant me strength! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

ScaredyCat

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2014, 11:54:44 AM »
Did i understand it correclty ... you summon 1 wall and are allowed to block 2/6 sides of a hex-zone?

No you did not  ???   One wall blocks on side of the zone.

Most of the examples provided were showing two walls (one summoned and then presumably extended, or it could be two summoned).

The latest example tried to illustrate the affect of one wall vs. two walls.  You were questioning the impact of our rule change and this seemed the most effective way to explain it.

DaFurryFury

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2014, 02:30:57 PM »
Okay now I'm confused again..... Sorry :(
I thought from the beginning it was accepted that 1 wall (not extended) is played such that it is touching 3 zones, blocking 2 zones from entering 1 of the zones determined by which direction it's oriented. Thus Los is blocked across two zone edges with the one wall (not extended).

But do you mean to say that a wall is placed between only 2 zones thus blocking movement and sight from the 1 direction?
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Schwenkgott

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2014, 02:51:41 PM »
I think it makes more sense, when you can place 2 wall sections to block 2 sides of one hex, when ever you summon a wall. With an extended wall, you could block 4 sides of a hex. Makes walls more important, so they have a bigger impact on the game. But everyone can of course play this in a way they want to.
Akiro, I have never prayed to you before. No one will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that one stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Akiro... so grant me strength! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

ScaredyCat

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 03:49:22 PM »
Quote
I think it makes more sense, when you can place 2 wall sections to block 2 sides of one hex

We thought about using walls this way but this would greatly increase their affect in the game and was immediately discounted.     

With your proposal:
  • Summoning one wall would span two hex zone sides with a gross block of 118 degrees vs. one wall currently spans one square zone side with a gross block of 88 degrees.
  • Extending a wall would span four hex sides with a gross block of 238 degrees vs. two walls currently spans two square zone sides with a gross block of 178 degrees.
We did not want to give any component in the game more power because of the hex map board.

Our goal with the hex board was to provide more realistic movement and ranging.  Obviously changing the map board was a very big deal but we tried to do so while keeping to the spirit of the original design; this was very important to us.  We made every effort to leave the original game rules and errata untouched.  The affect of walls on LoS was one exception we had to address. The impact of walls has diminished slightly but they remain an effective component of the game.

The other mods (spell points) were a result of us play testing multiplayer games.  We scoured the forum for guidance but found little.  What we came up with has worked well and it appears others have adjusted spell points in an effort to speed up their games.  We've never been interested in speeding the games up (not yet) but rather to ensure good balance in a multiplayer environment.


DaFurryFury

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Re: Large Hex Board
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 03:55:01 PM »
That makes a lot of sense to me. Have you considered discounting walls by 1 mana to make up for the 20 or so degrees lost? Or do you think it's not really necessary?
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