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Author Topic: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid  (Read 9234 times)

Intangible0

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Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« on: October 19, 2014, 02:05:55 AM »
Episode 9 is up! This time I played with my friend Nick for his first video. The match was intense before the blows really started to land home and board/creature control was the most important factor.

Here's the Druid build lovingly nicknamed the Ford Assembly Line:

Wychwood PunisherDruid
Attack2 x  Jet Stream1 x  Force Hammer3 x  Acid Ball1 x  Arc LightningConjuration1 x  Mana Flower1 x  Mangler Caltrops1 x  Nightshade Lotus1 x  Wall of Thorns1 x  Vine Tree3 x  Bloodspine Wall2 x  TanglevineCreature3 x  Vine Snapper4 x  Thornlasher2 x  Raptor Vine1 x  Kralathor, The DevourerEnchantment1 x  Jinx1 x  Bear Strength1 x  Rhino Hide2 x  Nullify1 x  Marked for Death1 x  Stumble1 x  Agony1 x  Barkskin1 x  Fumble1 x  Brace Yourself1 x  Cobra ReflexesEquipment1 x  Wand of Healing1 x  Mage Wand1 x  Elemental Cloak1 x  Eagleclaw Boots1 x  Vinewhip StaffIncantation3 x  Force Push1 x  Seeking Dispel1 x  Disarm1 x  Rouse the Beast2 x  Dissolve3 x  Burst of Thorns1 x  Heal1 x  Knockdown1 x  Renewing Rain2 x  Teleport2 x  Dispel
Total cost: 120 pts

The basic idea here is to lay down the vine tree to spread tokens all over the field. You want to establish board control early so a thornlasher will hit the field within the first couple turns. You then cast a bloodspine wall since it doesn't block line of site and combined with the caltrops you start pulling their creatures through. Kill their creatures, establish "damage" control by having more potential damage on the field. Follow up by spreading the Thornlashers around one space apart so you can pull the enemy mage or other creatures through more walls.

If the enemy mage lays it on too hard in the beginning then just make one dedicated space filled with creatures and spines and lure them to their demise. If larger creatures are causing a problem then get them away from you and tanglevine to buy some time as you pummel the mage. If they teleport away then drop the 6-12 mana needed and put them back in range of your creatures.

This is one of the hardest builds I've had to play, it was pretty alien to me. When planning and taking your actions you need to consider not only what your opponent is going to do but what's going to happen the turn after. So try to have a hand of answers, and play accordingly. Nullify them, acid ball for armor, pushing them within range, stumble to mess with moving, Rouse the beast to get a surprise snatch affect off, Night shade lotus to deal with creatures that stray too far away from the enemy mage. Get in your opponent's head.

When I played this match there were too moments that I made a good call with my planning. He countered aptly and it made for a great game.

As for Nick's build. The Bloodwave Warlord... We lost the deck build, but I'm going to have him respond on this thread to explain how the book works.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 02:45:51 AM by Intangible0 »
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sshroom

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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 04:19:41 AM »
Thanks for posting guys. These are very entertaining.

This is a tough matchup for the Bloodwave Warlord. Walls plus pushing/snatching is a very efficient way to deal damage and the Druid does it extremely well. You really want lots of Teleport against this book and Warlords commonly run 0-1. At least the Anvil Throne has the Tough to help avoid being snatched. I think use of Garrison Posts might have been helpful. It really hurt you having your creatures able to be snatched immediately upon deployment. Of course the Druid can set up another Zone of Death next to your Post but then at least his initial summons aren't doing him as much good.

I really think putting on some armor would have been helpful for the Warlord once in the Zone of Death. Attacks in the Zone of Death should have all been focused on the Thornlashers since they are what prevent you from moving away. I wouldn't waste attacks on the walls or caltrops as they are so cheaply replaced.

There were a couple of turns where the Vine Tree was vulnerable to Conquer.  If you run Force Push (you probably should) you could do it without giving the Druid a chance to respond. Activate Mage QC Force Push the Panzergarde into the Tree Zone, move into the Tree Zone, Conquer the Tree. This might have helped or maybe the game was out of reach by the time this play was possible, In general the Vine Tree/Vinewhip staff needs to be dealt with quickly. You really can't allow the Druid to put down 3 vines per turn. Either the tree needs to be killed or the staff Dissolved ASAP or preferably both. I know easier said than done...

There was one turn when a Vine Snapper was guarding but did not take it's counterstrike. It would have meant the Orc Butcher died one action sooner. Didn't really matter much as the match was not really close. In fact I think the Druid could have ended the match much sooner by just focusing attacks on the Warlord and not bothering to kill his soldiers.

Well excellent job guys. Thanks for taking the time to put these up.


sshroom

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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 04:37:05 AM »
One other comment: I would really prefer to see damage on stuff represented with the counters rather than dice. It makes it easier to see what's going on. Thanks guys.

Biblofilter

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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 06:16:57 AM »
Another awesome video :)

I really like your videos and i think you have improved the quality a lot.

Some of the dice are easier to see for us viewers than the others. (The yellow d12 and the damage dice)

Always nice to see a gameplan carried out with success!

Wall of Thorns is a really good spell, especially when people don´t protect themselves. Brace Yourself , Eagleclaw Boots helps a lot, even some cheap armor like Leather Gloves reduces the damage significally.

One important thing about Wall of Thorns is that level 2 creatures spend a full action to go throug the wall. Which in your game meant that the Raptor Vine couldnt attack the Warlord. ( It meant nothing in this game)

I think the Warlord should have played differently. Specifically trying to stay at range 2 vs the Thornlasher with the Goblin Slinger Maybe a couple of Warlord Walls and a Archer's Watchtower or two might have helped. The actual setup with the Barrack in range for the Thornlasher "kill zone" was really bad for the Warlord.
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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 10:36:49 AM »
I have played this build a couple of times on OCTGN, and it is quite hard to counter. I refer to this build as Death Row. I see it set up in the center zone across the board and you just get Snatched from one Zone to other. The problem is that early Plant creatures are very cheap vs. the damage they deal. Add a Vine Snapper into each zone and between the Walls and the two creatures you are talking 10 dice of damage with piercing and bleed thrown in. Slingers are ok but cant keep up with the Regeneration. Haven't tried this yet, I think the best bet is to wall in both corners and Archer's Watchtower and place a Archer's Watchtower in each. Mana and time intensive and then you need to support them in the zone between them with a Wall of Stone and Deathlock meaning that you would have to kill the Wall of Thorns first and be ready to cast your Wall. From there it is Welcome to the Jungle time with a Machete in hand.

So on the Druid side you might want more of your Walls....
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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 03:15:25 PM »
I think the big problem was playing the Barracks forward. You would have been better off opening with something like:

Turn 1 (19): Barracks in start corner -> Garrison Post in NC (3)
Turn 2 (12) [2]: Deploy Orc Butcher -> General's Signet Ring -> Leather Gloves (1)

At this point you have a little bit of defense against multiple attacks, you are in a similar position in terms of overall economy, you still need to play the Armory, but it's more awkward for the Druid to be able to pull all of your small creatures through a Bloodspine Wall into Mangler Caltrops the turn you play them. In addition, you would have put your opponent under more pressure early by getting that Orc Butcher down a turn earlier.

You kept doing little bits of damage, but not focus firing things down. This is especially important against plants, as all plant creatures have Regenerate.

Goblin Alchemists would have been amazing in this match with their fire attack.

If you want to use weak ranged creatures like Goblin Slingers, you're going to need to create more space between them and your opponent's threats.

If you're going to have your mage stay in a zone where you are constantly outnumbered by enemy creatures, you need to do more to shore up your defenses. Armor, Aegis, and Defenses are all options, but you need to do something.

You shouldn't have attacked the Wall of Thorns. It blocked line of sight, and you could have used that as a chance to get away to try and recover.

I don't think it was an issue with your late game so much as never getting your midgame going. I think turn 4 was where the issue of playing your Barracks forward became apparent, and you fell behind because your Slinger was immediately pulled through a meat grinder without getting to do anything. You recovered a little bit with the Hail of Stone, but you really needed to follow up with more durable threats.
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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 09:59:34 PM »
I have played this build a couple of times on OCTGN, and it is quite hard to counter. I refer to this build as Death Row. I see it set up in the center zone across the board and you just get Snatched from one Zone to other. The problem is that early Plant creatures are very cheap vs. the damage they deal. Add a Vine Snapper into each zone and between the Walls and the two creatures you are talking 10 dice of damage with piercing and bleed thrown in. Slingers are ok but cant keep up with the Regeneration. Haven't tried this yet, I think the best bet is to wall in both corners and Archer's Watchtower and place a Archer's Watchtower in each. Mana and time intensive and then you need to support them in the zone between them with a Wall of Stone and Deathlock meaning that you would have to kill the Wall of Thorns first and be ready to cast your Wall. From there it is Welcome to the Jungle time with a Machete in hand.

So on the Druid side you might want more of your Walls....

The Druid seems like a really tough thing to counter. Have you ever used any other creatures like Whirling Spirit or even Selesius, the East Wind? Not sure if it would help at all but I'm curious on your thoughts. How many Force Pushes and/or Jet Streams would you run?
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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 12:05:55 AM »
Really haven't tried that approach yet, tried a Wand + Flameblast along with pair of Eagleclaw Boots, worked for a bit until my Boots were Dissolved and at that point I had the Nullify prepared to protect them but those dang German players are very astute with Initiative and planning. Its the cheap creature mana cost + high dice + regeneration that makes the Druid so hard to kill.
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gerni

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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 05:15:25 PM »
... Its the cheap creature mana cost + high dice + regeneration that makes the Druid so hard to kill.

That's true for the early game. But plants die fast if you don't commit to keep them alive. Also, plants don't offer a lot of mobility. I have no experience as Warlord but I'd either try to get my own walls up vs 'snatch pit' and use  Ludwig Boltstorm or other range attacks with the Archer's Watchtower, or I'd use an intercepting guard to cover my range if i don't have a wall myself. Also, there are some creatures with tough trait which also could be considered versus snatch. And there is also Iron Golem (I used him last time i played a druid).

In general Druids suffer versus flying creatures (esp. Guardian Angel) and mobile creatures (with defense). In my group, most of the books have a distinct gameplan vs. 'pit plays' which is why I completly went away from playing the snatchgame (as primary gameplan). Don't get me wrong, the strategy is nice but it is very predictable.

At first glance (didn't dive too much in FiF) the Warlord to me seems better without a Barracks. But that might just be my playstile. I am slowly moving away from creature spawnpoints with other mages too. Even the Vine Tree I use more and more to just control Guards with Tanglevines and additional Vinemarkers instead of creatures.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 05:18:56 PM by gerni »
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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 06:28:18 PM »
but those dang German players are very astute with Initiative and planning.

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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2014, 05:33:40 AM »
Enjoying the videos. Keep them coming.

I noticed you alternate actions during the deployment phase. Is this your house rule? The rulebook states that play during the Ready Stage is simultaneous so we play the mage with initiative conducts all deployment first followed by the other mage.
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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2014, 09:13:37 AM »
I guess we just assumed that all phases of the game take "turns". But now that I think about it, upkeep phase is controlled by the player who has initiative so maybe Active player also gets to play all deployments first.

You are also the first person in 9 videos to mention it, so I wonder if either no one noticed or everyone plays like we do?
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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2014, 11:27:07 AM »
I play like you do.  I didn't know it wasn't a rule.  Just assumed play alternated from player to player, even in deployment. 

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Re: Arcane Duels Episode 9 - The Bloodwave Warlord vs the Druid
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2014, 01:45:38 PM »
I noticed it, but it was a small enough point that I didn't bother to mention it.
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