October 21, 2018, 07:52:20 AM

Author Topic: Forcemaster questions  (Read 7242 times)

sdougla2

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 07:30:12 PM »
I think this needs official clarification, just in case. If we're going by rules as written instead of rules as intended, and the rules state that damage barriers only have those two steps, then Forcefield would not remove a token against damage barriers.

I was afraid you'd say that. Well, when we were making FvW we wanted Forcefield to always work as long as it had a token. So, until I can confirm with Bryan otherwise, Forcefield works against counterstrikes.
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14813.0

Has this changed?

No, but that's not really the issue. If a Forcemaster with an active Forcefield attacks a Warlock with Demonhide Armor, does the damage barrier from Demonhide Armor trigger Forcefield or not? That's not addressed in the thread you linked.
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sIKE

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2015, 07:37:45 PM »
Skip the Damage Barrier and Counterstrike Steps. However a Guard marker is still removed.
That bullet point from the link I posted?
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Zuberi

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2015, 07:55:38 PM »
You skip those steps after Forcefield has been used to cancel an attack, yes. That is still in effect. The question was the opposite though, can you use Forcefield after a Damage Barrier is triggered to cancel the Damage Barrier attack.

sdougla2

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2015, 08:00:00 PM »
That (within the context of the question) tells you what happens once you know that an attack is already being skipped due to Forcefield, it does not address whether a damage barrier attack will trigger Forcefield. Put another way, the text you're referring to just says that if a Forcemaster has Circle of Lightning and Forcefield on, a creature attacks her in melee, and the attack is avoided due to the Forcefield, that creature won't get hit by the damage barrier attack from Circle of Lightning. It does not describe whether the Forcemaster will get hit by damage barriers when she makes melee attacks and has an active Forcefield enchanting her.
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sIKE

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2015, 08:36:48 PM »
OIC, I guess we need a ruling on this though I am guessing the intent is that Forcefield will absorb the attack Damage Barrier at the cost of a token.
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Kharhaz

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2015, 09:09:36 PM »
OIC, I guess we need a ruling on this though I am guessing the intent is that Forcefield will absorb the attack Damage Barrier at the cost of a token.

We have one, unless it gets overturned


I was afraid you'd say that. Well, when we were making FvW we wanted Forcefield to always work as long as it had a token. So, until I can confirm with Bryan otherwise, Forcefield works against counterstrikes damage barriers.

I fixed the og post

Laddinfance

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2015, 09:47:01 PM »
I'll be forwarding this on to Bryan. Hopefully he'll rule on it soon.

iNano78

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2015, 10:04:54 AM »
I'll be forwarding this on to Bryan. Hopefully he'll rule on it soon.

Thanks for looking into this.  We assumed it was a relatively common situation and didn't expect it to lead to such a rules debate. As casual fans of the game who are starting organized play, we're as interested in the process (e.g. arguments for and against a ruling, and where to get official rulings on ambiguous situations) as the resolution.

Another quick question, just to be sure we understand correctly:

The Wizard has already activated in a given round.   The Forcemaster casts Force Bash on the Wizard to push him 1 zone and put a Slam condition marker on him.  The next time the Wizard activates (next round, in this case), he flips the Slam condition to a Daze condition.  Does this Daze condition go away at the end of this same activation - e.g. the same activation that he flipped it from Slam to Daze - or does it stick around until his next activation (next round)?  It seems the former is correct based on the timing of when these conditions get flipped/removed (marked in red below).

Quote from: Codex 2.0
Slam (Condition Marker)
Creature is Incapacitated. When this creature is activated remove Slam and replace with a Daze condition. Unmovable creatures receive a Daze condition instead of Slam. Has a removal cost of 3.

Quote from: Codex 2.0
Daze (Condition Marker)
Creature is disoriented and/or blinded. Whenever this creature makes an attack, roll the effect die at the end of the Declare Attack Step. If the attack skips that step, then roll as soon as the attack starts. If the result is 7 or higher, the attack is resolved normally. If the result is 6 or less, the attack "misses" its target and is considered to have been avoided (even if the attack is Unavoidable). If it makes a Zone Attack, only check once: the entire attack either fails or succeeds. If a creature has more than one Daze on it, roll only one time to see if the creature misses. In addition, the Dazed creature suffers a -2 penalty to all Defense rolls for each Daze marker it has. All Daze markers are removed at the end of the creature's Action Phase. Daze has a removal cost of 2. Conjurations cannot be Dazed.
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Zuberi

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2015, 11:57:05 AM »
It gets removed at the end of the same action phase.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 12:00:30 PM by Zuberi »

Zuberi

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2015, 12:00:04 PM »
You might consider downloading the >>>Rules Supplement<<<. If you can't find an answer in the rules or the codex, the rules supplement will usually have it.

iNano78

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Re: Forcemaster questions
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2015, 12:18:17 PM »
You might consider downloading the >>>Rules Supplement<<<. If you can't find an answer in the rules or the codex, the rules supplement will usually have it.

We had it printed out and on-hand.  Still, it leads to some downtime when you often have to check the Codex (2.0), Official Rules and Codex Supplement (sometimes in more than one possible location within that document), and then sometimes get redirected back to the main rule book.  It's too bad there isn't one all-encompassing document/app that's easily searched with a mobile device while at the table.

...

Ah yes, it is explained quite clearly in there.  I thought I'd already checked it but must have only checked the Codex:

Quote from: Rules and Codex Supplement
Slam (Forcemaster vs. Warlord)
Slam is a temporary Incapacitation, designed to represent a creature being knocked down to the ground, and then quickly getting up again as soon as it acts again. It is removed as soon as that creature is activated (and replaced with the Daze condition), and this represents that creature “standing back up”.

Thus, a Slam will not prevent a creature from taking their Action Phase. The Daze will then go away at the end of that Action Phase as normal.

Slam is useful for removing a Guard marker, or temporarily taking away Defenses, or the Flying trait (which all occur because of Incapacitation).
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