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Author Topic: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!  (Read 20340 times)

Koz

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2015, 02:50:01 PM »
Copying someone's words and replacing everything with "how it should be said" type of a post is very snarky in and of itself. 

He could have simply disagreed without the sarcastic tone.  Then we could have had a discussion and he could have possibly swayed me. I was a HUGE supporter of this game for it's first year, shouting it's glory from the rooftops.  Now I'm struggling to maintain interest and being shouted down by fanboys just makes me want to say "eff it" and walk away for good

Oh well

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2015, 03:07:23 PM »
It's posts like this that are helping chase people away.  I have a legitimate complaint that I shared in hopes someone will listen and, sure as sunrise, a rabid fanboy pounces from the shadows to silence any and all critique of his pet game.

If you think the release schedule for this game is "refreshing", good for you, but it's not good for the game.  You putting yourself ahead of the game though is touching.  As long as it's good for you, who cares if it kills the game eh?  And honestly, if one product release in a year is what's right for your pocket book...you may want to consider a new job.

And the game is NOT "picking up pace", as evidenced by the poor turn out at Origins and Gen Con last year.  These things are telling, even for those with their heads in the sand shouting "all is well" into the darkness.

But thanks for stepping in to be snarky.  Just puts yet another bad taste in my mouth for this game.  If your goal was to help chase people away, congrats.

Hahaha.  Sorry, couldn't resist.  I hadn't got around to posting my thoughts on the subject when I read your post and had the exact opposite reaction to pretty much every point, so I used your post as a template - hence the obvious plagiarism. 

My apologies if my post came across as "snarky" or chases people away.  For a second, I thought that comment was written by someone reacting to your post, but I guess some people could get annoyed by a "pouncing fanboy" like me.  As for the new job, I certainly wouldn't mind something with less uncompensated overtime, but alas, it's sort of expected in the field I chose.  But I have to admit both the time and financial costs of keeping up with, say, MtG or even Android: Netrunner are why I prefer Mage Wars.  As small of a dent it would put in my way of life, I can't justify several hundred or even thousands of $ per year to play a card game anymore.  That, and I'm already sort of committed to X-wing miniatures at the moment - so yes, I'm already paying hundreds per year to play a miniatures game - but that's another story.

As for drop in attendance at major conventions, have you considered that maybe Mage Wars (Arena mode) isn't particularly well-suited to live tournament play?  Large tournaments with a game that takes > 1 hour per match, often requiring the need to be spread out over 2 days (or more, as in the case of X-wing now) when there are lots of other things you'd like to do at the convention just isn't appealing to some people.  And as for me suggesting Mage Wars is gaining in popularity, I was merely referring to locally, where there was no organized Mage Wars last year and now we have a small (and growing?) group of dedicated players - and who are generally excited about the upcoming expansions and play modes.  I can only imagine that new game modes will increase the attention Mage Wars gets as it becomes more appealing to people looking for shorter and/or tournament-friendly games (Academy) or longer and more in-depth multiplayer experiences (Battlegrounds).

And as for the release schedule, I personally like the pace, but I also appreciate that the guys at Arcane Wonders care more about getting the best possible product to market rather than getting something out every month or two.  It's the reason that (arguably) X-wing miniatures is a much better product than Star Trek: Attack Wing, which is a very similar game but puts much more emphasis on spitting out new expansions at a break-neck pace rather than, oh I don't know, playtesting the expansions for game balance, for instance.  Also, claiming to want more and then complaining when it arrives seems self-defeating to me, so I thought I'd share my opinion in a way that directly compared to yours.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 03:23:53 PM by iNano78 »
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Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2015, 03:19:45 PM »
Copying someone's words and replacing everything with "how it should be said" type of a post is very snarky in and of itself. 

He could have simply disagreed without the sarcastic tone.  Then we could have had a discussion and he could have possibly swayed me. I was a HUGE supporter of this game for it's first year, shouting it's glory from the rooftops.  Now I'm struggling to maintain interest and being shouted down by fanboys just makes me want to say "eff it" and walk away for good

Oh well

I think you both have very valid points. There has to be a balance between access/affordability on the one hand and keeping the game fresh with new products on the other. Considering that player skill plays a much larger role than card access in this game, increasing the pace of releases probably won't make this game less affordable. I agree that we do need the releases to come out more quickly. I think the main problem is actually that Arcane Wonders is understaffed. With all the work that goes into making such a good product, there's not enough people doing that work to get it done quickly enough.

Maybe if you give it some time, Arcane Wonders will either get enough money to grow their employee base enough to release expansions at a more reasonable pace, or perhaps more likely, they'll be bought out by a larger company that will hopefully still leave them in charge of Mage Wars. If that happens I'm kinda hoping it will be Fantasy Flight. Then we'll be able to actually call mage wars an LCG. Plus, Mage Wars is already kind of the fantasy counterpart to the science fiction game Android: Netrunner. Last time I checked it was right above Mage wars on the board game geek list of best customizable games,  or maybe it was just best "LCG-like" games.

I'm definitely no expert on business, of course, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

And koz is right btw. It did sound kinda snarky.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 03:29:38 PM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Koz

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2015, 03:28:48 PM »
I appreciate the redirect in tone, and I apologize for my initial rant.  I'm sure it came off as a bit too negative.  It's just that I used to LOVE this game, doing everything I could to recruit people to play and get a community going.  Sadly, my efforts ended up wasted, and our community is more or less dead.

It's been very difficult to try and convince people to give it another shot when there's been no new product for a year.  The gaming industry is flooded with constant shiny new toys that keep us obsessive gamers salivating over "what's new".  FFG understands this, hence their rapid release of products.  I'm not suggesting Arcane Wonders try and adopt FFG's approach and spam product monthly, but having only one release in a year that contains something new for your flagship game is unacceptable if your goal is success.  I mean, if you want to make money off of your product...you need to actually be selling some.

The problems I have with the promos is that there have been some that have been out FOREVER and are still not "official".  I've wanted Temple High Guards to be "legal' since I saw them what seems a lifetime ago.  I didn't chase these promos initially because I figured "why do that when they'll eventually be released.  Well...here I am, still waiting.  It's a frustrating experience.

I was hoping Domination would be the flint to relight the spark in our community, which is why I was so disappointed in the small amount of new cards.  I was hoping for a much larger release after so long of a drought.  Who knows though, maybe Domination will shake things up enough to be what people in my area need to give it another go.  Perhaps not.


Laddinfance

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2015, 03:44:15 PM »
Koz
I'm sorry that this product is insufficient for you. I know from day one working with Arcane Wonders it was never our goal to have a release schedule like Magic or other games like that. We knew that we'd rather bring out great expansions than focus on bringing out numerous expansions. Since the game was released we've had 4 expansions. Personally I've been very proud of my work on those products and I've been very excited to share them with all of our players. In the time since Forged in Fire, I've been working on Academy, Battlegrounds, Paladin vs Siren, [unnamed expansion], and various other Mage War products. I can understand the frustration that, even though we're working on all of these things, none of them have come out yet. One of the best parts of my job is when I'm able to show all of you just what I've been working on, when I can show you something new and awesome.  So for me, having Battlegrounds is a great step forward. It's something that we spent a great deal of time on and now it's finally going to go to players hands. I get your frustration, and I'm actively working on fixing that. I know that we as a game didn't want to have a breakneck release schedule that other games might have, but I also know that we have too many ideas and expansions to be content giving you only one a year.

So, the cliff notes version, I get your frustration and I'm working to get you more of the fantastic content we have planned.

iNano78
I appreciate your support. Hopefully you are just as excited as we push to get more Mage Wars out every year. As I said before, we don't want to dump expansions out left and right, but we do want to have more in the players hands each year than we've had so far. Lastly, understanding can go a long way, though you may not agree with Koz, I wouldn't invalidate any of his concern out of hand. I know that you were just being witty and that's fine. Just keep in mind what we can do to make this community a better place. That is what's ultimately going to have us explode as we get more content out.

Everyone
Thank you for your support. As we begin spoiling the contents of Battlegrounds: Domination I hope you can find things that you really love in it. And now I'm going back to finish up one of those other projects...

iNano78

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2015, 03:47:10 PM »
For us, the promise of a new edition of the core set (including more copies of staple spells, current errata text on the cards, even a fresh board design despite being functionally identical), followed closely by 2 new ways to play the game, is revitalizing interest for some of the "original release" players in the area, and is getting the attention of players who had heard of the game but never tried it (or tried it once but were involved with other games at the time).  We've got 2 new players borrowing spell books from us as they await their "Arena" preorders, and they're just as excited as the "original release" players are for Domination and (to a lesser extent?) Academy.  For us, Mage Wars is the new-shiny-all-over-again right now.  I'm just speaking for my local area; I'm sure it's not the case everywhere.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 03:49:40 PM by iNano78 »
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krj

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2015, 06:15:12 PM »
in my opinion iNano78's response was brilliant :)

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2015, 10:30:44 PM »
Only 116 new cards?  That's it?  By the time this set comes out, Mage Wars will not have had a new release in about a year that wasn't an accessory, promo, or reprint.  The product release for this game is glacial, which in my opinion is leading to a very stagnant environment.  I personally haven't played in like a year, but I walked by several games at Gen Con last year and was very disappointed to see the same plays being made and the same spells being used that have been around forever (e.g. Force Push through Wall of Thorns, Hurl Boulder, blah blah etc). 

116 cards with only some of them being spells, means almost no content that will change the spell book design up much.  So this is basically just an alternate rule set with some tiles and a handful of cards thrown in that are all probably designed around these orbs. 

While I commend the new variant on play, the ridiculously slow release of product for this game is killing it for me.  I mean, there are still a large number of promos that have been out for well over a YEAR with no sign of when they'll actually appear in a full release.  Not to mention the fact that the game has been out for 2 and 1/2 years and we still don't have Frost spells...Thank god we have that Bearskin armor though!  So dumb...

I think this game is slowing dying, which is a shame because it could have been great.  When it's gone, I hope they realize that the snails pace of releases and "samey" spell books were the root cause.  Not that it will matter at that point

Sorry for the rant, I just really loved this game when it first came out, but the lack of evolution in gameplay and trickle of product has killed it for me.

Koz, I understand what you are saying fully.  Our team is small.  We are not Magic the Gathering with armies of people to design and playtest.  We are a humble team of 5 with Bryan leading the helm at design.  Our company has grown in the last year, and as a result, being transparent, Mage Wars suffered as the company grew, but the releases for Mage Wars were not as abundant as any of us would have liked.  We're attempting to repair that this year with Battlegrounds being the start, along with Academy and Paladin vs Siren coming this year.  This, like any other great game, survives from passionate players supporting us, through good and bad times.  We too love this game, and we want it to evolve and grow.  I hope you enjoy Battlegrounds should you choose to acquire it, and that you continue to support our game.  We aren't perfect, but we strive to do our best and we hope this year will see multiple releases for Mage Wars as planned, and introduce new cards, strategies, and options into the player pool.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 10:33:36 PM by Toxziq »
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exid

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2015, 01:33:26 AM »
I love MW (with it's expension rythme, etc., etc.) and I don't need what seems to be a totally new game (controlling orbs).

My question is:
will the new cards of this expension add something for the "ancient way" of playing MW (paf you're dead!), or should I wait to command the next expension?

krj

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2015, 04:13:15 AM »
I love MW (with it's expension rythme, etc., etc.) and I don't need what seems to be a totally new game (controlling orbs).

My question is:
will the new cards of this expension add something for the "ancient way" of playing MW (paf you're dead!), or should I wait to command the next expension?

Hi, i was thinking similar few months ago, that i don't need new type of game in MW and only what i want is new mages and more spells. I've changed my mind after watching/listening/reading one of some news about what it exactly is going to be. I don't remember where was it exactly, but thing that convinced me was spells which are connected with those V'tars, so it's not just places which i only need to take, guard but also use some spells which are designed for those kind of places (i hope it's true, because i think i saw it somewhere :P). For me that is very neat, but apart from that i like also fact that we can create map from tiles we get in expansion and of course whole new type of game will make me think about different strategies and spellbook creation and that sounds great, really can't wait. Hope there won't be big delay in Poland.

exid

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2015, 07:56:59 AM »
Poland?
I'm in Switzerland... and it's very dificult to find MW here...

About the new play-mode, it can surely be very exciting, but (playing twice per month), I think I have a lot to discover with the ancient mode.
Playing for orbs will bring a hole new way to build and fight, for me it's a new game, and I don't need one for now!

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2015, 08:39:45 AM »
Copying someone's words and replacing everything with "how it should be said" type of a post is very snarky in and of itself. 

He could have simply disagreed without the sarcastic tone.  Then we could have had a discussion and he could have possibly swayed me. I was a HUGE supporter of this game for it's first year, shouting it's glory from the rooftops.  Now I'm struggling to maintain interest and being shouted down by fanboys just makes me want to say "eff it" and walk away for good

Oh well

I apologize Koz.  I didn't see your initial post cause iNano didn't quote it and I'm a lazy reader :/  That was rather snarky  :o

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2015, 09:38:58 AM »
Speaking of what Koz just have mentioned, what has been said in the other topic "Is MW losing popularity", and that both you Scott and Aaron have replied to the subject in here I would really like to hear what plan AW has to get the EU market going again. Please say you have nice plan here and that you are not just going to leave it as is. I have the same feeling out of Sweden as my other follow European buddies that MW really need you commitment over here to survive / turn the trend.

If this isn't the right topic I'm sorry, but please reply in new one then. Thanks!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 10:11:41 AM by fas723 »

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Re: Pre-Orders for Battlegrounds are online beginning today!
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2015, 10:58:17 AM »
Hey this is awesome! Can't wait for this to come out!
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