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Author Topic: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts  (Read 4623 times)

echephron

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Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« on: June 16, 2015, 01:23:40 AM »
No thread just about Samara Tree which isn't in the rules section so here we go.

I think the idea behind the tree is solid and lends itself to a strategy of delayed actions and counterplay, but vine tree can be used for so many things, including seedling pods, that it overshadows Samara.

I think Samara could use a boost, even though it's not gonna happen. I think Samara Tree would become awesome if, as a free action, it could cast one seedling pod immediately upon being cast.

Alternatively, remove Samara's channelling and make the seedling pods it summons start with one mana. That would make it easier to use. With tataree help, you could have a seedling cast on turn 2 able to deploy on turn 3. It sounds too good, but only because of tataree and she can be one-shotted pretty easy.
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Laddinfance

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 08:15:35 AM »
I've seen the arguments made that Vine Tree is the superior tree. If we want to provide more reason for using either, then I don't think you want to "speed up" the tree. You should focus on what the trees do differently. The largest benefit that Samara Tree has is the reusability of Seeding Pods. So the first thing that would seperate them would be having more plant spells that are not vines. Seeding Pods can cast any plant spell. You've also taken nothing away from the Vine Tree. The second thing you could do is print something that requires the druid to destroy one of her Plant Conjurations. You have a limitless supply of Seeding Pods so having some way to cash them in for an effect before they're "ripe" would also provide a unique interaction for the Druid.

Obviously the alternate Druid is a ways off, but these are ideas I've been mulling over.

Bluebaron

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 09:13:44 AM »
These are great ideas Laddinfance. I think that would be the right direction to develop the samara tree further. Make it more unique and give it some special use.

V10lentray

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 09:36:37 AM »
I've always found that when trying to use the Samara Tree and the seedling pods, that the pods always seemed to get killed before ever being ready to pop.

On the plus side, that means the opponent is attacking something other than me or my creatures.

On the downside, that was bunch of time and mana resources spent on that Pod getting blown up.
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Coshade

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 11:42:14 AM »
I really wish you could use Kraelthor to eat the seedling pods (and them not obliterate) and do a build up type strategy. Currently my problem with Samara tree is just running out of time, and that seedling pods take up spellbook points. I think using the pod doesn't actually gain you an action. If you sprout it at 3 mana I think you just turned your wheels and didn't go anywhere. If you wait for more then three mana, I find I don't have enough things to properly defend myself with. It's super tricky. The nice part is that the druid can get a lot of armor fast.
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ACG

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 05:26:49 PM »
I think using the pod doesn't actually gain you an action. If you sprout it at 3 mana I think you just turned your wheels and didn't go anywhere.

It isn't about gaining an action; it is about being able to bank an action for later. In the early game especially, you have to use the precious limited resource of actions without fully understanding your opponent's strategy. With Seedling Pods, you don't need to make an immediate commitment to a particular strategy, and can wait to see what your opponent does without wasting the actions you need to counter it.

At the moment, the options as far as plants go are a bit limited, so it doesn't have the versatility it could. As more different plants with diverse functions appear, Seedling Pods will become more and more useful, since you will be able to respond to a greater array of threats.

In short, if you want to make Samara Tree better, just more plant spells. Lots of plant spells. Plant spells with all sorts of uses; anti-enchantment plant spells (like Magisbane Lily), anti-swarm plant spells (like Lychweed), anti-conjuration plant spells (like Creepervine), anti-nonliving plant spells (like Sunflower), etc. A full toolbox of plant spells will let the ability of seedling pods to delay decisions really shine, and will make Samara Tree a more attractive option relative to Vine Tree. It doesn't even matter whether the new plants are vines or not; the point is the ability to postpone committing to a particular strategy.

Coshade

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2015, 05:55:46 PM »
@ACG - This is a really good way of thinking about it. I am excited to see what kind of plant spells come out in the future to make me want to use the Samara Tree. A lot of the spells you posted would go perfect with the Druid.

Do you use Tataree in your book? If you have a book would you mind posting it sometime? I'd love to take a look at it! I haven't really explored the Druid Samara builds a lot and would love to learn.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 05:58:08 PM by Coshade »
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echephron

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2015, 04:41:00 PM »
Some considerations of seedling pods:
Only one per zone combined with a 3 turn charge time means that you can't focus spawning into one zone like vinetree can. This suggests a strategy of using other zones to effect your vulnerable zones, like a thornlasher or a lifetree.

If you make a seedling pod, and no enemies are close to it, there is not a lot which that pod can do, especially if the zone exclusive slot of that zone is already filled. I don't like making a plant creature which has to move across 4 zones before it can do anything. Part of that is personal taste in that I don't like to include mobile plant creatures(other than ents) into my spellbooks since they seem anti-theme to me.

ideas for more plants:
-non-vine Trees which have arena-wide effect. It might be nice if, when they are treebonded, the effect increases. More incentive to not treebond a spawnpoint.
-a level 3 immobile non-vine plant which is a mix between a bridge troll and a vinesnapper.
-a non-vine plant incantation which effectively teleports(without the teleport subtype) target something(likely a plant object) to its zone. Others have made versions of this already on the forums.
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Schwenkgott

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 01:52:22 AM »
Heinz, the legendary flesh-eating Tomato!
Akiro, I have never prayed to you before. No one will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that one stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Akiro... so grant me strength! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

pete2

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 03:35:25 AM »
Wooow..i' suddenly had a vision of a board filled with vines and trees..and pods exploding everywhere...this post boosted my imagination to revis my current druid build...
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fas723

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 11:39:57 AM »
Heinz, the legendary flesh-eating Tomato!

I totally support this! As long as it got bloodthirsty +5.

Laddinfance

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 12:19:43 PM »
Heinz, the legendary flesh-eating Tomato!

I totally support this! As long as it got bloodthirsty +5.

Audrey II?

Coshade

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 02:43:25 PM »
Ketchup enchantments!
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ACG

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 03:40:34 PM »
@ACG - This is a really good way of thinking about it. I am excited to see what kind of plant spells come out in the future to make me want to use the Samara Tree. A lot of the spells you posted would go perfect with the Druid.

Do you use Tataree in your book? If you have a book would you mind posting it sometime? I'd love to take a look at it! I haven't really explored the Druid Samara builds a lot and would love to learn.

Sure. I have a build that I am hoping to possibly test tonight, which I will post assuming it doesn't go catastrophically wrong (due to an oversight on my part). I call it "The Procrastinator." Probably quite a bit of room for improvement, but that is what the community is for.

And yes, I do include Tataree (though I don't always summon him).

Coshade

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Re: Samara Tree (and seedling pod) thoughts
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 05:28:08 PM »
@ACG - This is a really good way of thinking about it. I am excited to see what kind of plant spells come out in the future to make me want to use the Samara Tree. A lot of the spells you posted would go perfect with the Druid.

Do you use Tataree in your book? If you have a book would you mind posting it sometime? I'd love to take a look at it! I haven't really explored the Druid Samara builds a lot and would love to learn.

Sure. I have a build that I am hoping to possibly test tonight, which I will post assuming it doesn't go catastrophically wrong (due to an oversight on my part). I call it "The Procrastinator." Probably quite a bit of room for improvement, but that is what the community is for.

And yes, I do include Tataree (though I don't always summon him).

Looking forward to it! Good luck on your match  8)
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