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Author Topic: Explode and Fireshaper Ring  (Read 2567 times)

Servasky

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Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« on: April 03, 2013, 03:09:51 PM »
Explode has an attack bar so... 5 dice?

Thank you!

sdougla2

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 03:25:52 PM »
Explode isn't a melee or ranged attack, so no, Fireshaper Ring doesn't improve the Explode attack.
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DarthDadaD20

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 09:07:34 PM »
Explode is a incantation. Any thing that prevents an attack, (Like block, or daze or Forcefield) Explode can bypass. Its one of the few exceptions.
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it follows your loved ones as well as mine,
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Halewijn

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2015, 11:59:08 PM »
Explode is a incantation. Any thing that prevents an attack, (Like block, or daze or Forcefield) Explode can bypass. Its one of the few exceptions.

Is this correct? I've read multiple answers on the forum.

I would say that it isn't correct according to the rules, But it is logically.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 12:06:53 AM by Halewijn »
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sIKE

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2015, 12:38:08 AM »
Explode is a incantation. Any thing that prevents an attack, (Like block, or daze or Forcefield) Explode can bypass. Its one of the few exceptions.

Is this correct? I've read multiple answers on the forum.

I would say that it isn't correct according to the rules, But it is logically.
Explode is not affected by spells such as Reverse Attack. You have to trigger the Reverse Attack during the Counter spell step. At that point Explode is not making an attack it is Destroying the Mage Equipment. The attack is made afterwards after the Counter spell step. It is subject to Reverse Magic though. Explode is not an Attack and is not handled as once, though it does make an attack after it resolves.
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Zuberi

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 12:44:55 AM »
Yes and no.

Explode is an incantation. It thus has to go through the cast spell steps and is subject to counter spells like Nullify. If the spell resolves, it generates an attack which goes through the combat steps, including the avoid attack step. The attack is unavoidable though, so block and reverse attack are discarded without effect. Forcefield would prevent it though (think of a skin tight energy barrier under the armor). This attack is not ranged or melee, however, so the roll dice step will not be affected by fire shaper ring or any other melee +x or range +x traits.

sdougla2

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 12:49:28 AM »
The reason Reverse Attack doesn't work against the attack from Explode is that Explode is unavoidable. You reveal the Reverse Attack in the avoid attack step, but it is simply discarded without effect at that time due to the attack from Explode being unavoidable. It doesn't matter that it is not an attack spell. Block works just fine against Burst of Thorns. Reverse Attack is less efficient against Burst of Thorns, but it still functions.
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Zuberi

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 12:58:42 AM »
For references, the rule book goes over the cast spell steps and the fact that all spells have to follow them. The spell itself says it generates the attack when it resolves, and that it is unavoidable. The rules again go over combat steps which all attacks generally follow, but the official rules and codex supplement breaks it down into more detail showing that attacks like explode only skip the damage barrier and counter strike steps (because you can't hit a spell back, and you weren't hit by a creature/conjuration) as well as the additional strikes step. It still goes through avoid strikes step.

The supplement also clarifies that the spell explode is the source of the attack, so no traits on the caster modify it at all. Finally the supplement clarifies that forcefield works against unavoidable attacks.

Sorry for lack of page numbers, I'm on a mobile device without access to physical materials, making it difficult to reference.

Zuberi

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2015, 01:01:15 AM »
The reason Reverse Attack doesn't work against the attack from Explode is that Explode is unavoidable. You reveal the Reverse Attack in the avoid attack step, but it is simply discarded without effect at that time due to the attack from Explode being unavoidable. It doesn't matter that it is not an attack spell. Block works just fine against Burst of Thorns. Reverse Attack is less efficient against Burst of Thorns, but it still functions.

I do want to mention though that if the attack was not unavoidable, reverse attack would still be ineffective as you would aim it back at the incantation spell, the source of the attack, and not the creature that cast the spell. That's a big difference between attack spells, which are an attack, and incantations that generate an attack.

Halewijn

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2015, 01:20:24 AM »
I was only confused with the attack. The skinlike shield is a weak explanation. This would require unlimited concentration and control. If she could do that, she would be some mega archmage  :P

Not that I really care, it is really a minor thing and you would need a lot of errata to fix it. Thanks for the fast and thorough answers!   :)
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sdougla2

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Re: Explode and Fireshaper Ring
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2015, 01:53:17 AM »
Reverse Attack against Burst of Thorns changes the target of the attack to the vine marker that is the source of the attack, which is basically the same as if it were a cheaper Block. That's what I meant by inefficient.
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