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Author Topic: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks  (Read 2116 times)

Cnoedel

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Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« on: August 04, 2015, 02:22:20 PM »
So I want to show Mage Wars to  couple of friends soon, the prebuild spellbooks do not really represent the game for me so I wanted to create 6 equally strong spellbooks that come closer to competitiv books than the prebuilt books, are stronger in strategy and theme but easier to get into. The friends have experience in other card games such as Magic.


What I had in mind:

Druid
Necromancer (either Zombies or Skeleton-only)
Warlock (Curse or Burn)
Wizard (WizTower+Control)
Priest (Angels+Control)
Warlord (Dwarves or Orcs/Goblins)
Forcemaster

I own MWstarter, spelltome 1, DvN, FvW, CoC,FiF

Some spells I want to have in all of the spellbooks:

Dispel (x11)
Dissolve (x10)
Seeking Dispel (x5)
Force Push (x7)
Block (x7)
Nullify (x7)


Based on this card count I came to the conclusion that 4 books may be better than 6 because then i can put in more cards of the same name than just 1 which is greatly increasing the complexity of strategic decisions players have to make.

So Forum: 4-6 what Spellbooks should I build? What could you imagine yourself enjoying for the first time playing mage wars?

My favorite Ideas are:

Necro (skeletons) representing the swarm-playstyle

Warlord (Dwarves) for the Conjuration-heavy buddy-method (only a few creatures, walls and a strong mage giving commands)

Forcemaster for Solo-mage action, very controlly

Curselock to experience the power of enchantments, slowly killing the enemy mage

Priest for mighty angels and pacify


Oh i am so unsure, help me out :D
"I close my eyes and seize it
 I clench my fists and beat it
 I light my torch and burn it
 I am the beast I worship..."

DTHGRPSBWR

http://absurdurbannihilist.tumblr.com/
my blog.

Sailor Vulcan

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Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2015, 03:01:42 PM »
Hmm. You probably don't want to start with the regular game, or with the whole card pool. Their mtg background will help them learn a lot faster, but Mage wars arena has a much higher starting difficulty than magic. You've probably heard of how mtg has a really high ceiling. For Mage wars the issue isn't the ceiling, but the floor. From the sound of it your friends want to start getting ideas for custom spell books pretty quickly. The regular apprentice mode does somewhat show the core mage's play styles, but they're not much more representative of how they normally play than the full preconstructed.

I recently came up with an idea for a balanced and customizable apprentice mode that does use the ability cards. It has not been tested yet.

http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=15776.0

I can see what you mean though, the original apprentice mode is pretty fun, but it's not exciting like regular arena is and while it will help teach the game it won't be so good at giving ideas for spellbook building.

Let's break this down:

1. Goal: get your friends into Mage wars
2. Method: make their first game the best experience possible for them


Procedure:

1. Think about these friends and what they like in general, and what they like most. What about Mage wars would appeal to them in general? What about Mage wars would most appeal to them? If you're unsure, make your best guess.
2. Construct or adapt the format and spellbooks for their first game optimizing for these criteria. Addressing potential problem areas should take a little, but only a little priority over increasing the awesome aspects. No matter how much fun-potion you add to the cauldron, it only takes a few drops of frustration, confusion or boredom to ruin the whole thing.

Something I'm wondering though is what are your reasons for not wanting to use regular apprentice mode for this?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 03:09:56 PM by Sailor Vulcan »
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echephron

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Re: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2015, 03:22:23 PM »
I love themed spellbooks. I strongly recommend they start with 1-2 apprentice games or watch experienced people play. Sure its not the same, but its the quickest way to understanding it. I'm surprised you dont want a beastmaster in there. he is like the 2nd most popular mage and good on theme. New people really like his straightforwardness too.

Also, you didnt list teleport as a needed spell.


Beastmaster: swarm of canines.

Necro (skeletons):just steal the ladinface one he posted way back.

Warlord (Dwarves) for the Conjuration-heavy buddy-method (only a few creatures, walls and a strong mage giving commands): i have trouble finding a good Conjuration warlord. maybe build it around the sniper/watchtower/and walls.

Forcemaster for Solo-mage action, very controlly. so is it charm/mind control then?

Curselock to experience the power of enchantments, slowly killing the enemy mage: i recomend sectarus, vamp, and that flying vampire as a bloodreaper.

Priest for mighty angels and pacify
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Cnoedel

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Re: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 04:11:53 PM »
Oh yes I totally forgot Teleport D:

For the Spellbooks i am now down to 4, I didn't choose the Beastmaster because he would represent roughly the same strategy as the necro (don't get me wrong they are very different but not as much as I want them to be)

4 Spellbooks:

Forcemaster - solo mage

Necro - skellieswarm

Dwarf Warlord -  Walls+Dwarves+Ranged+Spiked Pit-stuff :D

Curselock - Powerful Enchantmentplay

Maybe I switch out the necro for the beastmaster because this way I would have all different schools of magic and not two dark mages.

"I close my eyes and seize it
 I clench my fists and beat it
 I light my torch and burn it
 I am the beast I worship..."

DTHGRPSBWR

http://absurdurbannihilist.tumblr.com/
my blog.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 05:30:23 PM »
When I went from mtg to mage wars, I taught myself using the regular game rather than apprentice mode, and it was really really really really REALLY frustrating. My first half a year I never won. Not even once.

I doubt most people have the patience for that. That's why apprentice mode exists.


Are we building full 120 pt spellbooks? Are you sure that's a good idea for new players? If so, perhaps we should start thinking of ways to offset the starting difficulty of the 120 pt books.
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coyotecloudchasr

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Re: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2015, 06:13:36 PM »
As a person trying to get some new players I can tell you what NOT to do from experience:

Do not have new players start with 120 point decks, there are too many choices but more importantly too many strategies that new players aren't prepared for. 

One new guy immediately quit playing the game in frustration because he didn't realize that there Attack spells affecting entire zones so the swarm he'd spent an hour figuring out how to summon got wiped out in one action.  I had a similar experience in my first game against Mass Sleep where I simply called it quits for the day after that.

Don't surprise them with rules they didn't know about if you can avoid it.  Use the Apprentice decks or at least decks with 60 points or less, and before they play let them look over ALL the spell books to get an idea of what the cards and strategies are and answer any questions they have.  In a competitive environment you want to surprise opponents with things they haven't seen, but you don't want new players to get screwed by stuff they didn't know about.  Another example was one new guy didn't understand Intercept and was frustrated his elaborate strategy failed because he didn't know he couldn't finish off his opponent with a ranged attack.

As you said, ensure that they have at least a couple copies of Dispel and Dissolve, and Teleport if you're using walls and Tanglevine.  No one likes to have no chance to deal with an annoying situation.
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Cnoedel

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Re: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2015, 07:46:55 PM »
Some good ponts made here, maybe we start with approx. 80~100 Points

Cards for all 4 Books:

1x Seeking Dispel
1x Decoy
1x Teleport
1x Force Push
2x Dissolve
2x Dispel
2x Block
2x Nullify


EDIT: Posted the full lists in a later post
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 03:26:55 AM by Cnoedel »
"I close my eyes and seize it
 I clench my fists and beat it
 I light my torch and burn it
 I am the beast I worship..."

DTHGRPSBWR

http://absurdurbannihilist.tumblr.com/
my blog.

bigfatchef

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Re: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 07:57:36 PM »
I can see the point you are asking for clearly.

Personally, after mobilizing more and more friends to play mage wars with me, I think the most important is to keep the game exciting.
I disagree that 120 point books and crazy strategies are scaring newbies away. What I do is that I introduce them to all spellbooks that are available in my box and what ideas are in it. There are books from this forum that I want to try out and my own creations.
Then we play more or less with open cards the first rounds and getting more secret as time passes and they learn. I give hints about what cards in their deck are important and powerful. It is not the overwhelming surprise that is making it fun, but the development of the whole progress. Having very different spellbooks prepared shows more variety of what is possible.
What I really miss (I think I print some stickers and stick them on the arena walls) is a written down hint that shows the 3 dice attack you get when pushed against w wall. Nobody sees that coming or realizes that option and there is never a good moment to tell that :-(

For different mages I would take interesting ones that are not specially focused on one strategy. No Sardonyx. No cool Sacromancer and no Talos Build.

What I think is working good is

- A solid forcemaster with 2 thougtspores (sleep, force push and forcehammer prepared), invisible stalker and a force blade

- A Warlock with lot of fire. A lash, some fireballs, firewalls, some firecreatures.

- A Beastmaster swarm with a lair and many falcons

- some Wizard like the wizzly grizzard with a shooting tower. I preferred to put 2 grizzlys in there. That is scary and fun to play!


Finally I think people run away if they think it is too complicated. Be soft. Give hints and let them change cards if they got a spell wrong. Make it a close game. It's generally no big thing if somebody looses if there was a chance.

Cnoedel

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Re: Dear Forum, please build with me: 4-6 starter Spellbooks
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 12:48:47 AM »
I made all the spellbooks to 100P with all the cards i had (Warlord only has 1x Block and 1x Nullify, also lacks Teleport but I think that shows his arcane weakness pretty well) - Question is:

Are those spellbooks useful against each other? Please help me!

Dwarflord StarterAnvil Throne Warlord
Attack1 x  Hurl Rock1 x  Hurl BoulderConjuration1 x  Archer's Watchtower1 x  Garrison Post2 x  Wall of Earth1 x  Battle Forge1 x  Barracks1 x  ArmoryCreature2 x  Dwarf Kriegsbiel2 x  Dwarf Panzergarde2 x  Anvil Throne Crossbowman1 x  Ludwig Boltstorm1 x  Grimson Deadeye, SniperEnchantment2 x  Brace Yourself1 x  Standard Bearer1 x  Decoy1 x  Block1 x  NullifyEquipment1 x  Ring of Command1 x  General's Signet Ring1 x  Horn of Gothos1 x  Helm of Command1 x  War Sledge1 x  Gauntlets of Strength1 x  Leather Boots1 x  Eisenach's Forge Hammer1 x  Harshforge PlateIncantation2 x  Perfect Strike2 x  Power Strike1 x  Akiro's Battle Cry2 x  Charge2 x  Defend2 x  Flank Attack2 x  Sniper Shot1 x  Force Push2 x  Minor Heal2 x  Dispel2 x  Dissolve1 x  Seeking Dispel
Total cost: 100 pts

Strategy:

The Warlord should focus on the Forcemaster by protecting hisself with a panzerguard while attacking him with grimson or Ludwig. To defeat the beastmaster use your commands and mid-sized dwarves to kill his smaller animals so that they never reach large numbers. Playing against the Warlock will be harder but harshforge plate and the two wall of earth may prevent the warlock on casting much on you.

In General, the Warlord prefers the late game to have his fortress ready, just stay defensiv and let the enemy get to you. Try getting Grimson or Ludwig on a watchtower, blocking LoS with a Wall of Earth. Use your different commands according to your playstyle and seal the deal with akiros battlecry.

Curselock StarterWarlock
Attack2 x  Fireball2 x  Flameblast1 x  Ring of Fire1 x  FirestormConjuration2 x  Wall of FireCreature2 x  Blood Demon2 x  Darkfenne Bat2 x  Flaming Hellion2 x  Infernian Scourger1 x  Necropian Vampiress1 x  Sersiryx, Imp FamiliarEnchantment2 x  Agony2 x  Chains of Agony1 x  Death Link2 x  Enfeeble2 x  Ghoul Rot2 x  Marked for Death2 x  Vampirism2 x  Block1 x  Decoy2 x  NullifyEquipment1 x  Ring of Curses1 x  Moloch's Torment1 x  Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword1 x  Elemental WandIncantation2 x  Vampiric Strike2 x  Drain Life2 x  Dispel2 x  Dissolve1 x  Seeking Dispel1 x  Force Push1 x  Teleport
Total cost: 100 pts

Strategy

Regarding the Warlock fighting the Forcemaster, try using your demons to get action advantage and to get through her defenses. Kill the thoughtspores because they may remove your curses and then cast everything on the Forcemaster. In battle with the beastmaster go straight for the throat - irritate the animals by clever use of Walls of Fire, shoot fireballs at the mage and try cursing him fast. Use vampiric strike to stay alive. Don't forget that many creatures in your book have the vampiric trait so they lst much longer than the beastmasters swarm. Against the Warlord simply remove his harshforge plate, curse him and don't bother his dwarves. If there is a panzerguard, counter with a demon so his guard is removed.

In general you should stack curses as fast as possible because they take a while to increase their potential. Don't waste many spells on enemy creatures, never forget that your main target should be the mage!

Mindmaster StarterForcemaster
Attack1 x  Invisible Fist2 x  Force HammerConjuration1 x  Suppression Orb1 x  Mordok's ObeliskCreature1 x  Invisible Stalker2 x  ThoughtsporeEnchantment2 x  Block2 x  Decoy2 x  Force Hold2 x  Force Orb1 x  Forcefield2 x  Fumble2 x  Stumble1 x  Reverse Attack2 x  Bear Strength2 x  Jinx2 x  NullifyEquipment1 x  Force Ring1 x  Defense Ring1 x  Gauntlets of Strength1 x  Galvitar, Force Blade1 x  Elemental Cloak1 x  Elemental Wand1 x  Deflection BracersIncantation2 x  Force Push2 x  Force Wave1 x  Mass Sleep2 x  Repulse2 x  Minor Heal1 x  Heal2 x  Dispel2 x  Dissolve1 x  Seeking Dispel1 x  Teleport
Total cost: 100 pts

Strategy

The Forcemaster may use her Surpression Orb and obelisk against the Beastmasters Swarm, she can use her Forcefield and defenses to be protected against ranged dwarves and may push them around to fight the warlord directly - he lacks serious movability. His Conjurtion can be brought down with Force Hammer. Clever use of Thoughtspores may dismantel every Curse the Warlock will put on you and try dueling him 1v1 - remember, elemental cloak protects you for his fire spells!

In General try to protect your thoughtspores and use them as long as you can to control the arena. You should isolate the enemy mage and mess with their planning! Then hit them in direct combat with Galvitar

Swarmmaster StarterBeastmaster
Attack2 x  Hurl Rock1 x  Hurl BoulderConjuration1 x  Tooth & Nail1 x  Rajan's Fury1 x  Tanglevine1 x  LairCreature4 x  Bitterwood Fox2 x  Dire Wolf2 x  Timber Wolf1 x  Redclaw, Alpha Male2 x  Feral Bobcat2 x  Thunderift Falcon1 x  Tarok, the Skyhunter1 x  Steelclaw Grizzly1 x  Fellella, Pixie Familiar1 x  Sosruko, Ferret CompanionEnchantment2 x  Bear Strength2 x  Bull Endurance2 x  Lion Savagery2 x  Regrowth2 x  Rhino Hide1 x  Decoy2 x  Nullify2 x  BlockEquipment1 x  Ring of Beasts1 x  Staff of Beasts1 x  Bearskin1 x  Leather Gloves1 x  Regrowth BeltIncantation2 x  Call of the Wild2 x  Rouse the Beast2 x  Minor Heal2 x  Dispel2 x  Dissolve1 x  Seeking Dispel1 x  Force Push1 x  Teleport
Total cost: 100 pts

Strategy

The Beastmaster can focus down the Forcemasters controlling Conjurations by summoning big hitters like the grizzly. He may swarm the dwarf to death and rush him with Lair and call of the wild before he gets to build his archers watchtower+Grimson Deadeye combo. To beat the warlock he should figure out which curse hurts the most and remove it. Probably scare him away with the Grizzly or eat him alive with many wolves.

 In General you should decide if you go swarm or buddy, for the first one cast at least 1 animal per turn and spend the rest on totems or hidden enchantments. Finish the opponent with call of the beasts and Red Claw. If you go buddy, just get the grizzly out, support him with fellella and sosruko. Try to tanglevine the enemy and get into close combat!


Final words:

I really enjoyed putting those together, maybe I will continue to do 100P improved starter books for other mages as well. The Warlord seems to be a bit weaker and I am thinking of adding the Harshforge monolith in his book but to me it seems to be a bit to much of a hard counter to the Warlock - what do you think? How can I improve the Warlord?Armor Ward? Another question deals with the Forcemaster who is also maybe a bit weak, should I add another thoughtspore? Does he need a battleforge to increase his speed? Should I put 1-2 copies of arcane corruption in the warlock spellbook to counter the buddy-beastmaster or forcemaster? Any mage in need of purge/destroy magic? Is my meta toomuch enchantment-focussed (buddy-beastmaster; curse warlock) ?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 04:39:14 AM by Cnoedel »
"I close my eyes and seize it
 I clench my fists and beat it
 I light my torch and burn it
 I am the beast I worship..."

DTHGRPSBWR

http://absurdurbannihilist.tumblr.com/
my blog.