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Author Topic: The Wizard discussion  (Read 29778 times)

rant

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2015, 05:21:59 PM »
Ok, so hear me out. I don't believe wizards tower is OP.  Walls can pretty much negate it and force the wizard to deal with it. Meanwhile, continue to build YOUR strategy.  Until the meta changes, pack a few walls that block LOS in your books.  Most walls are cheaper than WT giving you the advantage. The wizard uses mana to knock down your wall? Put up another.  Make it useless.

The issue I see with wizard is his access to dispel and dissolve.  Six each for 6 SBP each will ruin anyone's strategy and only cost 12 SBP TOTAL!. These two cards are auto includes because they are so good.  Pay what your opponent paid and chip away at their strat.

There are four types of cards in play during a game, creatures, conjurations, enchantments, and equipment. A water wizard is able to negate both enchantments and equipment for a 1:1 mana ratio. That's half the game being negated at 1:1 and more than likely cheaper in spellbook construction. (ugh, I should really start maining wizard)

Does anyone have an example of a card that does it better than dispel or dissolve?
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Halewijn

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2015, 02:24:02 AM »
There are four types of cards in play during a game, creatures, conjurations, enchantments, and equipment. A water wizard is able to negate both enchantments and equipment for a 1:1 mana ratio. That's half the game being negated at 1:1 and more than likely cheaper in spellbook construction. (ugh, I should really start maining wizard)

If equipment and enchantments are important in your deck, try Armor Ward and Enchanter's Wardstone. If you want general protection, a good old Nullify can always help.

While playing the warlord, his Harshforge Plate in combination with the dwarven runes help out as well.  ;)

Ok, so hear me out. I don't believe wizards tower is OP.  Walls can pretty much negate it and force the wizard to deal with it. Meanwhile, continue to build YOUR strategy.  Until the meta changes, pack a few walls that block LOS in your books.  Most walls are cheaper than WT giving you the advantage. The wizard uses mana to knock down your wall? Put up another.  Make it useless.

Those things can help. But while you are investing almost the same resources for a wall that is GOING to get destroyed, he is investing in other stuff as well. You are still battling a wizard. Some walls can give you a round or maybe 2, but don't expect more than that.

The wizards tower by itself is indeed not overpowered, but in combination with all the other things the wizard can do make it a very strong card. I'm not going to repeat everything, but many things are written down in this tread.
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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2015, 06:50:40 AM »
I've been thinking about walls. I think they're best used similar to Jinx. They block LoS, and as long as the enemy can't (or won't) see or move around them, they can strand opposing resources for a turn. A creature that attacks a wall isn't moving past it, e.g.

As an attrition play, they're only useful if they're defending an investment that will pay off before the wall comes down, but as a tempo play they seem undervalued.

The third use of a wall is tactical separation. Divide before you conquer. "If your enemy is crossing a river, the best time to attack is when half his force is across."
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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2015, 07:47:43 AM »
There are four types of cards in play during a game, creatures, conjurations, enchantments, and equipment. A water wizard is able to negate both enchantments and equipment for a 1:1 mana ratio. That's half the game being negated at 1:1 and more than likely cheaper in spellbook construction. (ugh, I should really start maining wizard)

If equipment and enchantments are important in your deck, try Armor Ward and Enchanter's Wardstone. If you want general protection, a good old Nullify can always help.

I'm concerned about the additions of Crumble and (the new Dispel; can't remember it's name offhand) add another 6 copies of each of Dissolve and Dispel that cost 2 less mana. Sure they're full action, but of all the mages, this probably bothers the Wizard the least. Assuming he doesn't need to move, he can still Quick Cast his Arcane Zap or one of many attack spells from his toolbox, or even a Wizard's Tower, onthe same turn that he undoes whatever his opponent did for 2 mana less than before.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 07:49:33 AM by iNano78 »
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Mystery

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2015, 08:11:59 AM »
how many wizards truly run 6copies of dissolve and dispel?

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #80 on: August 14, 2015, 08:15:21 AM »
Quote
Assuming he doesn't need to move, he can still Quick Cast his Arcane Zap or one of many attack spells from his toolbox, or even a Wizard's Tower, onthe same turn that he undoes whatever his opponent did for 2 mana less than before.

If the other mage just stands there and casts the enchantments/equipment on themselves without moving/forcing the wizard to move then I'd almost argue they deserve their spells undone
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Schwenkgott

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #81 on: August 14, 2015, 09:19:19 AM »
Yes. And you can run out of range 2 from the wizard tower. Then it is totally useless for attacking the enemy mage.
Good players will not be beaten by just using wizard tower, jinx and a random attack spell. This strategy exists since wizard tower was released and has seen many many counters. You just have to be prepared.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 10:10:14 AM by Schwenkgott »
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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #82 on: August 14, 2015, 10:47:10 AM »
Yes. And you can run out of range 2 from the wizard tower. Then it is totally useless for attacking the enemy mage.
Good players will not be beaten by just using wizard tower, jinx and a random attack spell. This strategy exists since wizard tower was released and has seen many many counters. You just have to be prepared.

Yes, definitely a good thing both Dragon's Breath and Hurl Meteorite are full action, and thus can't be cast by Wizard's Tower.  Wizard's Tower basically constrains the design space of all future attack spells such that there should never be a range 3 quick attack spell.

And definitely a good thing Astral Anchor (and Eagleclaw Boots) came along and can allow a mage to stay at range 3 without getting Teleported (and Pushed) into range of a Wizard's Tower. At least, not until they get Dispelled (and Dissolved).
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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #83 on: August 14, 2015, 10:55:36 AM »
but how do you destroy the wizard if you run away? if he has the mana/channel advantage and some creatures too available.

He looses no spells on the WT if you summon many creatures and those should do your work, wizards tower probably kills some and you will run out of them at some point.


Wizard is above average and Priest is below average, that's fact in my pov. It is beatable, but do all mages have enought possibilities to have the Wizardstower counters and still be able to beat a lot of other spellbooks?
The Wizardstower/ some atatck spells just cost not a huge amount of the Wizardsspellbook. So even if the tower dies, you still have the attacks available for yourself, if you run away and not attack the tower and stay out of range at some point against more mana channeling set-up wizard you have to move out or your creatures and than the tower will have channeled some mana and cast whatever attack spell. Anyhow even if the tower is really useless (you never move in range) it basicily costed mana but you only counter a spell that is a few spellpoints for the wizard.

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #84 on: August 14, 2015, 01:52:41 PM »
Wizard is above average and Priest is below average, that's fact in my pov. It is beatable, but do all mages have enought possibilities to have the Wizardstower counters and still be able to beat a lot of other spellbooks?
The Wizardstower/ some atatck spells just cost not a huge amount of the Wizardsspellbook. So even if the tower dies, you still have the attacks available for yourself, if you run away and not attack the tower and stay out of range at some point against more mana channeling set-up wizard you have to move out or your creatures and than the tower will have channeled some mana and cast whatever attack spell. Anyhow even if the tower is really useless (you never move in range) it basicily costed mana but you only counter a spell that is a few spellpoints for the wizard.

Currently there are three mages without a lvl 1 wall: priestess, priest, and force master. I think the rest should bring walls specifically for WT.
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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #85 on: August 14, 2015, 02:20:16 PM »
Wizard is above average and Priest is below average, that's fact in my pov. It is beatable, but do all mages have enought possibilities to have the Wizardstower counters and still be able to beat a lot of other spellbooks?
The Wizardstower/ some atatck spells just cost not a huge amount of the Wizardsspellbook. So even if the tower dies, you still have the attacks available for yourself, if you run away and not attack the tower and stay out of range at some point against more mana channeling set-up wizard you have to move out or your creatures and than the tower will have channeled some mana and cast whatever attack spell. Anyhow even if the tower is really useless (you never move in range) it basicily costed mana but you only counter a spell that is a few spellpoints for the wizard.

Currently there are three mages without a lvl 1 wall: priestess, priest, and force master. I think the rest should bring walls specifically for WT.

Wall of Force is in Battlegrounds.

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #86 on: August 14, 2015, 02:29:44 PM »
Yes. And you can run out of range 2 from the wizard tower. Then it is totally useless for attacking the enemy mage.
Good players will not be beaten by just using wizard tower, jinx and a random attack spell. This strategy exists since wizard tower was released and has seen many many counters. You just have to be prepared.

I think we need to play.

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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #87 on: August 14, 2015, 02:37:39 PM »
Wizard is above average and Priest is below average, that's fact in my pov. It is beatable, but do all mages have enought possibilities to have the Wizardstower counters and still be able to beat a lot of other spellbooks?
The Wizardstower/ some atatck spells just cost not a huge amount of the Wizardsspellbook. So even if the tower dies, you still have the attacks available for yourself, if you run away and not attack the tower and stay out of range at some point against more mana channeling set-up wizard you have to move out or your creatures and than the tower will have channeled some mana and cast whatever attack spell. Anyhow even if the tower is really useless (you never move in range) it basicily costed mana but you only counter a spell that is a few spellpoints for the wizard.

Currently there are three mages without a lvl 1 wall: priestess, priest, and force master. I think the rest should bring walls specifically for WT.

Wall of Force is in Battlegrounds.

And has 4 life.
(as opposed to 3 life on the promo)
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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2015, 03:36:48 PM »
Wizard is above average and Priest is below average, that's fact in my pov. It is beatable, but do all mages have enought possibilities to have the Wizardstower counters and still be able to beat a lot of other spellbooks?
The Wizardstower/ some atatck spells just cost not a huge amount of the Wizardsspellbook. So even if the tower dies, you still have the attacks available for yourself, if you run away and not attack the tower and stay out of range at some point against more mana channeling set-up wizard you have to move out or your creatures and than the tower will have channeled some mana and cast whatever attack spell. Anyhow even if the tower is really useless (you never move in range) it basicily costed mana but you only counter a spell that is a few spellpoints for the wizard.

Currently there are three mages without a lvl 1 wall: priestess, priest, and force master. I think the rest should bring walls specifically for WT.

Wall of Force is in Battlegrounds.

And has 4 life.
(as opposed to 3 life on the promo)

And can be Arcane Zapped with almost zero effort.
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Re: The Wizard discussion
« Reply #89 on: August 14, 2015, 05:24:02 PM »

Wizard is above average and Priest is below average, that's fact in my pov. It is beatable, but do all mages have enought possibilities to have the Wizardstower counters and still be able to beat a lot of other spellbooks?
The Wizardstower/ some atatck spells just cost not a huge amount of the Wizardsspellbook. So even if the tower dies, you still have the attacks available for yourself, if you run away and not attack the tower and stay out of range at some point against more mana channeling set-up wizard you have to move out or your creatures and than the tower will have channeled some mana and cast whatever attack spell. Anyhow even if the tower is really useless (you never move in range) it basicily costed mana but you only counter a spell that is a few spellpoints for the wizard.

Currently there are three mages without a lvl 1 wall: priestess, priest, and force master. I think the rest should bring walls specifically for WT.

Wall of Force is in Battlegrounds.

And has 4 life.
(as opposed to 3 life on the promo)

And can be Arcane Zapped with almost zero effort.

On the plus side it's incorporeal so it can't be climbed over.
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