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Author Topic: Poisoned Blood and Barksin  (Read 20189 times)

sIKE

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Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« on: October 02, 2015, 08:57:40 PM »
So a Druid has Barkskin revealed and the Forcemaster has a hidden Poisoned Blood attached to Player A. During Upkeep (the FM now has Ini) the Druid pays the Upkeep for the Barkskin and in response the FM reveals the PB.

Now the question: Did the Druid Regenerate before the Finite Life trait was applied to the Druid.

Obviously if PB was revealed before the Upkeep payment then yes. I was asked this question and how I ruled was that when the Upkeep payment was paid the Regenerate and Armor traits were then "renewed" instantly and the Druid healed the two life before the PB was effective.

Now I am not 100% sure this was correct as I am not sure if the Regenerate effects are instant (in this case) upon renewal via the Upkeep payment. Thoughts?
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Zuberi

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 09:12:50 PM »
You can't reveal enchantments during the upkeep phase. The Forcemaster would have to reveal it before Upkeep, which would prevent the Regeneration, or after Upkeep, which would not prevent it.

sIKE

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 09:14:15 PM »
What? Where is that rule?
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iNano78

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 09:23:07 PM »
What? Where is that rule?

I think what he means is you can't reveal enchantments "during" steps, only before or after (eg between). So you either reveal before upkeep or after upkeep. Similarly, you can't reveal "in response to" something as there is no "stack" in Mage Wars.
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Zuberi

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 09:24:04 PM »
Page 19 of version 3 of the Rules, the version available for download still. I don't have version 4 of the rules at hand currently, which does update the reveal rules to allow revealing between the steps of a Move Action, but otherwise the two rule sets are the same.

You can reveal an enchantment between Phases and Steps, or after an Activation. You can not reveal them during a phase or step, unless they specifically say so like Nullify and Block do.

Sailor Vulcan

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Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 11:09:51 PM »
It says "phase or step"? Not just step? So then most enchantments could not be revealed during an action phase even if their text doesn't specify that?

Also this means I've been playing wrong for a VERY long time. I always thought that you could reveal enchants during upkeep. Although it probably doesn't come up much except in weird corner cases.

So channeling phase ends, player 1 reveals ghoul rot, then player 2 reveals regrowth,  and player 1 reveals poisoned blood, then upkeep begins. This is a correct procedure?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 11:18:25 PM by Sailor Vulcan »
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sIKE

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 12:30:10 AM »
On the Revealing Enchantments on page 18 on the 3.3 rulebook:

Quote
You may choose to reveal an enchantment immediately after any action or event, even if it is your opponent’s turn!

I think that the what you are pointing to are examples of when you can reveal Enchantment not to define there limits.

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jacksmack

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2015, 05:30:07 AM »
On the Revealing Enchantments on page 18 on the 3.3 rulebook:

Quote
You may choose to reveal an enchantment immediately after any action or event, even if it is your opponent’s turn!

I think that the what you are pointing to are examples of when you can reveal Enchantment not to define there limits.

definately not.

Those are the rules the exception being enchantments that specifically says *must be revealed DURING ....* such as nullify and block.

Kharhaz

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 09:34:26 AM »
So channeling phase ends, player 1 reveals ghoul rot, then player 2 reveals regrowth,  and player 1 reveals poisoned blood, then upkeep begins. This is a correct procedure?

End of the phase player one reveals any number of enchantments, one at a time, until that player is finished. Then it passes to player 2 who can then reveal any number, then back to player 1 and so on until both players pass.

That would technically be the correct procedure, although your example is not wrong

sIKE

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 09:47:38 AM »
You can reveal an Enchantment in any Phase there is not a limit to the end of the Phase or anything like that guys.

So I am in the Deploy phase and I realize that I am 2 mana short, but luckily I have a Face Down Decoy attached to a Zone. You are saying that I can not reveal it? I reveal an Enchantment  basically at any time, other than in the middle or end of any of the non-Actions Phases.

Once again I am going to go back to the very first line:
Quote
You can reveal an enchantment immediately after any action or event in the game:

So changing Phases is not an event? A creature healing is not an event?

If so, this is all ludicrous and I am going to walk away from the game.

Please I need an official ruling on this ASAP.
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iNano78

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 10:02:54 AM »
You can reveal an Enchantment in any Phase there is not a limit to the end of the Phase or anything like that guys.

So I am in the Deploy phase and I realize that I am 2 mana short, but luckily I have a Face Down Decoy attached to a Zone. You are saying that I can not reveal it? I reveal an Enchantment  basically at any time, other than in the middle or end of any of the non-Actions Phases.

Once again I am going to go back to the very first line:
Quote
You can reveal an enchantment immediately after any action or event in the game:

So changing Phases is not an event? A creature healing is not an event?

If so, this is all ludicrous and I am going to walk away from the game.

Please I need an official ruling on this ASAP.

I'm not an official ruling, but the text you quoted is the one to understand. You can reveal an enchantment after any step/phase (or before, since "before Y" is the same as "after X"). Casting a spell, or making an attack, involves several steps, and you may reveal an enchantment after (or before) any of those steps. Similarly, there are channeling, upkeep, planning, deployment and reset phases, and you may reveal an enchantment after (or before) any of those phases. Basically, if the phase or step is listed on the back of the rule book, then there is an opportunity to reveal an enchantment after (or before) that phase/step.

Case in point: the non-Druid might say "After the Channeling Phase (or before the Upkeep Phase), I reveal Poisoned Blood on your Druid." This prevents the Druid from Regenerating via Barkskin.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 10:13:06 AM by iNano78 »
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Laddinfance

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2015, 10:03:29 AM »
Quote
PG 18. (4th Printing Rulebook) "You may choose to reveal an enchantment immediately after any action, step, or phase, even if it is your opponent's turn!"

This should clearly answer sIKE's question.

exid

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2015, 10:56:16 AM »
euh... i read a lot of "4th rulles"... what is that?
how do i know if i have the 1st, 4th or 9th version?

exid

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2015, 11:00:18 AM »
and about the topic: if the fm forgets to reveal the poison blood before the upkeep phase, can the druid reveal his barskin during the upkeep phase?
and if he does, can he regenerate before the fm reveals the poison blood?

Laddinfance

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2015, 11:06:23 AM »
I appologize for answering a couple of the questions within the bigger question and somehow avoiding the "big" question.

Ok, so to the original question about Barkskin. You can regenerate without paying Barkskin's upkeep. Those are two separate "upkeep effects" and as you control both and they affect your character you get to choose the order they go in.

Now once I say, "I'm regenerating 2 from Barkskin." There is no window for you to reveal enchantments. This is effectively a one step process and as there is no stack there is no FILO to try and cancel the healing with. Now, This is an event and should allow for enchantments to be revealed after. Basically if something just happened, you can reveal an enchantment after it. If there are steps to the process you can reveal between any of the steps of the process.

So Yes sIKE you were right, they couldn't stop the Regenerate in that fashion.

Hopefully this is more on point and what you need.