October 16, 2019, 05:15:31 PM

Author Topic: Poisoned Blood and Barksin  (Read 22119 times)

ringkichard

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #135 on: November 25, 2015, 07:02:43 AM »
If you had a mandatory enchantment "trigger" then you would be allowed to reveal it. This would be a case of a card allowing (or in this case requiring) something that the rules do not.

If I have a non-mandatory single-use enchantment that can be revealed to influence a relevant effect ("triggered") during the upkeep, may I reveal it?
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exid

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #136 on: November 25, 2015, 07:12:12 AM »
there's no movement during upkeep so no trap trigger!

Unless returning from a Banish triggers traps. This is somewhat doubtful, but has been ruled proper play by Shad0w.

More importantly, it's an example of why you should never assume something can't happen. There are no attacks during movement (except when there are). There is no opportunity to reveal an enchantment during the reveal of another enchantment (except when there is). There's nothing you can do with an incapacitated creature (except that there was), etc.

Murphy's Law says, "If something can go wrong it will go wrong." This is often taken as a pithy expression of pessimism and the perversity of fate, but it's also a very useful design principle: the example I always think of is that if there's two ways to connect a plug to a socket, and one of those ways is wrong (upside down), eventually someone will do it. So, to combat this is, we use polarized plugs that can only fit one way. By making the failure mode impossible we prevent the failure. Conversely, we have to assume that everything that we haven't directly made impossible will happen, sooner or later.

So, for example, if a curse were printed that caused a creature to teleport randomly in the Upkeep, that would count as movement, and so would trigger traps. Moving isn't forbidden in the Upkeep, so it's sensible to assume that can happen, even if you don't immediately see how.

i agree!
but if there'is no such cards for now, we have time to solve this problem!

Halewijn

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #137 on: November 25, 2015, 07:14:12 AM »
I'm not really following this tread, but from now on you cannot reveal enchantments during upkeep anymore?  :o That's a big deal!

Ghoul Rot, Arcane Corruption, Plagued, Death Link, Adramelech's Touch, Regrowth, Poisoned Blood.

All these spells typically get revealed after channeling during the upkeep. (or after the burn roll)

Is it possible for someone to just summarize this 10 page long tread?  :) I feel like there are some pretty important things in it.
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exid

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #138 on: November 25, 2015, 07:17:29 AM »
I'm not really following this tread, but from now on you cannot reveal enchantments during upkeep anymore?  :o That's a big deal!

Ghoul Rot, Arcane Corruption, Plagued, Death Link, Adramelech's Touch, Regrowth, Poisoned Blood.

All these spells typically get revealed after channeling during the upkeep. (or after the burn roll)

Is it possible for someone to just summarize this 10 page long tread?  :) I feel like there are some pretty important things in it.

you can reveal after chaneling: AFTER the chanel phase.
but not during the upkeep.

... and it's not new for me!

Halewijn

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #139 on: November 25, 2015, 07:57:27 AM »
aha I get it. thanks Exid.

So the only enchantment in my list that will really be affected is Adra. touch? You can't reveal after rolling the burn?
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exid

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #140 on: November 25, 2015, 08:17:43 AM »
So the only enchantment in my list that will really be affected is Adra. touch? You can't reveal after rolling the burn?
right.

...and (wasn't it the true subject of this topic?) the regeneration: you can't reveal it after having taken to many burn damages.

FrostByte

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #141 on: November 25, 2015, 08:18:25 AM »
aha I get it. thanks Exid.

So the only enchantment in my list that will really be affected is Adra. touch? You can't reveal after rolling the burn?

As Exid recently pointed out in another thread.  Enchantments can not affect an event that occured before it was revealed.
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sIKE

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #142 on: November 25, 2015, 09:36:56 AM »
Quote
Before the first Action Phase of a round is the same as after the first Quick Cast Phase, so the distinction is moot. Before the Upkeep Phase is the same as after the Channeling Phase, before the Initiative Phase is the same as after the Final Quickcast Phase, and so forth.
But once you say you are in the Upkeep Phase, it is done and over with not a chance to reveal any Enchantments. In casual games this is all really not that important, but in official matches with strict rules enforcement, the fine points all matter. 

Of course (in the game) something "Before" is "After" something else. I explained this multiple times this past weekend at BGGCon. However once you move from one phase to the next, the ruling as it is applies. If you do not choose to reveal Poison Blood before the start of the Upkeep phase, your next chance to do so, is at the end of the Upkeep phase, once everything else has been processed.
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ringkichard

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #143 on: November 25, 2015, 02:13:31 PM »
It's going to mean an additional phase stop in tournament Octgn. Right now the first chance to reveal an enchantment is in the upkeep phase.
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Kaarin

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #144 on: November 25, 2015, 02:21:39 PM »
I'm not really following this tread, but from now on you cannot reveal enchantments during upkeep anymore?  :o That's a big deal!

Ghoul Rot, Arcane Corruption, Plagued, Death Link, Adramelech's Touch, Regrowth, Poisoned Blood.

All these spells typically get revealed after channeling during the upkeep. (or after the burn roll)

Is it possible for someone to just summarize this 10 page long tread?  :) I feel like there are some pretty important things in it.
In 4th ed You can't reveal those during upkeep phase, only between channeling and upkeep phases.
As opposed to earlier editions You can't reveal Adra's touch in response to failing burn rolls to save the last burn. You can't reveal healing charm after burns on You were rolled high, but You could do this before. Now You have to decide what risk You're willing to take before upkeep phase.
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sIKE

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #145 on: November 25, 2015, 06:15:12 PM »
It's going to mean an additional phase stop in tournament Octgn. Right now the first chance to reveal an enchantment is in the upkeep phase.
This was in the works already, the V2 release will have all of the game Phases implemented with the associated automations implemented in each phase. I am planning to add the ability to turn off automation for each phase.
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Moonglow

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Re: Poisoned Blood and Barksin
« Reply #146 on: January 03, 2016, 07:43:05 PM »
If you mean this one, http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14424.135

I don't think its been resolved yet has it?  Just coming back from  holidays and trying to catch up on the great mage wars debates of 2015 :)

aha I get it. thanks Exid.

So the only enchantment in my list that will really be affected is Adra. touch? You can't reveal after rolling the burn?

As Exid recently pointed out in another thread.  Enchantments can not affect an event that occured before it was revealed.