August 21, 2019, 02:08:14 PM

Author Topic: Mind Spawnpoint  (Read 6390 times)

Puddnhead

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2015, 03:43:03 PM »
Not to completely derail, but does Invisible Stalker's attack ignore guards since it begins the sequence with Elusive or does the loss of Invisible make it so that it has to hit a guard?  I assume that it ignores guards, but as other recent threads have proven, the guard action is very powerful.

Also, while I would love a Mind spawnpoint, I completely recognize why there isn't one.  Without the tension of whether to use your full action on creatures there isn't much choice in what book to build with your Forcemaster.  Every creature (even Mind creatures) is a very carefully calculated addition to the book--a weighing of the value of another action marker against the need to get to the damage race quickly.  I don't think it's wise to give the Mind school a spawnpoint that will work on Thoughtspores.  It's telling that the burning desire of many forcemasters is a way to cast thoughtspores without using your own actions.
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Moonglow

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2015, 03:38:09 AM »
All still makes psylocs a spell without a book... and yes, IS can have a place, but its a lonely one in the corner....

Ladin, I do sometimes forget to pass when outnumbered, so yeah, IS could have more play.  But really, in the global meta, are we seeing the IS and FM slaying it?  When steelclaw or others are the buddy of choice... in fact people mostly debate the value of any mind school creatures, then something is wrong.  If AW playtesters were regularly romping the wins with their clever, 'stalker' school books, then I'd suck it up, but its a pipe dream that old timers tell about their time at band camp... let me tell you, there was no pipe or pussy, just smoked stalkers.

Laddinfance

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2015, 08:14:50 AM »
For the Forcemaster, I do think that part of the key to playing that Mage is knowing when to use the pass.

As for the Psyloks, the issues with them would require a large meta shift, and I'm sure we could go over all the issues with him. However, I don't know that they're particularly important to the current conversation.

As for the Invisible Stalker, well I can understand your opinion. And I'm going to leave it there. I just wanted to be sure you were giving yourself the best chance for success.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2015, 10:56:01 AM »
Laddin, do you mean the FM isn't meant to have a lot of creatures in school, or a lot of creatures in play?  i.e. you're trying to force (see what I did there) it to be more solo/big buddy builds?  I'm kind of presuming the former.

It is a bit of both. The Mind School is not meant to have many creatures, and the Forcemaster is not meant to have a lot of creatures in play. She's meant to be a lone wolf character.

The trouble is the mind creatures we've got kinda suck.  They've all got some good coolness to them, but (and perhaps its a meta problem), they struggle to stay alive and be worth the mana and tempo cost for getting them out.  I mean the Psyloc should be awesome, but its a one swat pony.  I looove invisible stalker, but spend most of my time trying to maintain action advantage so he does't go visible and leave the mage a chance to splat him and as a result hardly attacking with IS (I've read the discussion about the advantage of having the enemy mage constantly holding back an attack to strike IS).

You pass to ensure you don't have to activate until the end right? In this way the Invisible Stalker will only have to worry about one creature and a quickcast. Now you're right, the opposing mage is going to be the best thing to attack at it. For me personally, I like the IS against Necromancers, as they have to pay extra spellpoints for ethereal attacks and a 5D attack is pretty solid against them and their creatures normally.

Probably in the same way that the nature school has less attack spells.

The mind school has a lot of good controlling effects, which makes up for the lower creature count to a large extent.

That being said, mind mages having fewer creatures in play at a time does not automatically mean that the mind school itself should have fewer creatures overall.

And let's not forget that mind mages don't have to be trained in ONLY mind. One idea I thought of for a mind/nature mage a while back is a mayan shapeshifter mage that takes the form of the creatures it summons by attaching them to itself rather than summoning them separately.
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Moonglow

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2015, 12:18:10 PM »
As for the Invisible Stalker, well I can understand your opinion. And I'm going to leave it there. I just wanted to be sure you were giving yourself the best chance for success.

I'm keen not to write him off just yet, so I'll keep at it, but it does feel an umm more challenging road. 

sIKE

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2015, 12:24:18 PM »
I can tell you Charmyna can demolish a FM quite handily. This was pre-nerf of HoB and BF .......
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Phillus

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2015, 09:27:24 PM »
How about a neutral spawnpoint.

Laddinfance

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2015, 07:59:38 AM »
Spawnpoints are tied into the core of what makes a particular Mage or set of Mages work. Building a generic one would be a bit out of place. Not saying it couldn't happen, but right now it would seem like a long shot.

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2015, 10:07:21 AM »
I can imagine a novice spawnpoint with no channeling and some sort of every-other-round timer for pretty cheep. But I'd want a reason to do it. Making all mages more similar cuts off other options.
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Halewijn

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2015, 10:35:06 AM »
I can imagine a novice spawnpoint with no channeling and some sort of every-other-round timer for pretty cheep. But I'd want a reason to do it. Making all mages more similar cuts off other options.

I am very happy you answered this. A generic spawnpoint is not  something I'm waiting for  ::)
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2015, 12:01:15 PM »
Maybe a spawnpoint with dissipate 2? You cast it, remove a dissipate token during upkeep of next round, then you only get to deploy something from it once before the second dissipate token is removed. Definitely don't think it should be novice though.
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Gogolski

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2015, 01:47:00 PM »
Catching up on this thread, I read a few replies that realy please me:

The fact that there will not be a lot more mind creatures is a good thing in my book. The forcemaster has tripple spellbook cost for non mind creatures and thus it is not a good idea to give fm a wide aray of mind creatures. If there are more mind creatures in the future, they will probably have a second school (like the community dark/mind creature which is in the making), or they should be situational -included in the book, but not a garanteed cast-. Next to a high spellbook cost, a high casting cost or better upkeep cost seems fitting for the fm...

A neutral spawnpoint seems like a NO. Good!

I proposed a spawnpoint which is not realy for casting mind creatures, but for 'stealing'/borrowing' creatures from your oponent but at a higher cost. I thought it was quite a forcemaster-ish idea to have the spawnpoint tap into an oponents spellbook. Having a 'normal'-functioning spawnpoint (channel X and prepare a creature during planning phase) for a fm seems like a bad idea which will make the fm quite bland.

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2015, 04:21:15 PM »
Spawnpoints are tied into the core of what makes a particular Mage or set of Mages work. Building a generic one would be a bit out of place. Not saying it couldn't happen, but right now it would seem like a long shot.

We need one to spawn Ssalks. Thinking of the movie Starship Troopers here. I can see a team of mages battling a hive of creatures coming at them as a scenario in Battlegrounds.
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Laddinfance

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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2015, 04:41:19 PM »
Spawnpoints are tied into the core of what makes a particular Mage or set of Mages work. Building a generic one would be a bit out of place. Not saying it couldn't happen, but right now it would seem like a long shot.

We need one to spawn Ssalks. Thinking of the movie Starship Troopers here. I can see a team of mages battling a hive of creatures coming at them as a scenario in Battlegrounds.


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Re: Mind Spawnpoint
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2015, 05:57:36 PM »
Spawnpoints don't have to be for creatures. So far, there are no spawnpoints for incantations, attacks, or enchantments. Forcemaster suffers from lack of actions, but creatures are not the only way to compensate.